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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Fri Mar 12 02:57:58 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Wed Mar 10 11:26:42 2010.

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link

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(910564)

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 12 03:41:56 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Mar 12 02:41:02 2010.

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Do they use recaptcha?

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(910566)

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Mar 12 03:58:00 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 12 03:41:56 2010.

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Heh. Not sure what they use, but it's designed specifically for the purpose. Gutenberg project and several others make use of the technology on old, stained books and the recovery is nothing short of amazing. Some of the newer fonts are troublesome but even there it does well. Gutenberg has a raft of volunteers who proofread the digitizing and there's not all that much that needs to be corrected remarkably ...

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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It

(910594)

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 12 08:33:29 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 11 22:08:23 2010.

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Yes, they are a very rare look at the Myrtle El in color and quality.

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(910595)

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 12 08:34:34 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 11 22:27:59 2010.

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He also scanned them very high, and cropped little scenes out of them which is also nice. One thing I thought was amazing that photos he took at an angle at some corners, he even straightened out in perspective in photoshop so you can read signs!

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(910596)

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Re: Jamaica Avenue El

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 12 08:36:08 2010, in response to Re: Jamaica Avenue El, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Mar 11 20:09:02 2010.

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What do you think that metal thing over the street is?

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(910621)

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Re: 3rd Avenue El

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 12 10:30:38 2010, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 10 07:27:10 2010.

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It might have improved more and sooner.

I was looking at the SBS Phase II study on the MTA's website, and it was really sad that among the areas they showed as being dense and far from the subway were in the corridors of the old Myrtle Avenue and 3rd Avenue Lines.

Foresight=FAIL!

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(910622)

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Mar 12 10:32:56 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 11 22:27:59 2010.

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Boy those Instamatics were some cameras, no?

Nice try. FTn FTW! (the 1969 photos, anyway)



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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 12 10:33:17 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Mar 6 05:07:06 2010.

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They would have probably done a good job integrating it into the complex. I think it'd have been very nice.

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Fri Mar 12 10:52:08 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 12 08:34:34 2010.

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The sad thing is I rode that train for four years from Ridgewood but never thought to photograph it,I could kick myself when I think of it. it should never had been torn down, another bad decision by the MTA. Karl M

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Re: Jamaica Avenue El

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Mar 12 12:24:35 2010, in response to Re: Jamaica Avenue El, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Mar 11 19:22:23 2010.

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Years ago there were no timers on the Flushilg line between QP & Court House Sq. Trains used to fly around the curve just before the 45th rd CHS sta enroute to Manhattan. With the timers installed, it seems like a crawl nowadays by comparison. My guess is that was a "structure duribility" issue a/c the heavier R62a's in service there and the age of the structure at that point

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Re: Jamaica Avenue El

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 12 12:29:11 2010, in response to Re: Jamaica Avenue El, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Mar 11 20:09:02 2010.

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Then you would be an idiot.

You get used to the noise. Thousands of people live on Jamaica Ave.

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Re: Jamaica Avenue El

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 12 12:29:56 2010, in response to Re: Jamaica Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 12 08:36:08 2010.

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Christmas light supports. What else could they be?

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Re: Jamaica Avenue El

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 12 12:31:59 2010, in response to Re: Jamaica Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 11 18:51:29 2010.

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As someone who not only lived next to an el for years, but also lived right next to an elevated platform AND a curve leading to it, not only do you get used to it, something seems intrinsically wrong when you don't live next to it anymore.

Now that's true. I had trouble sleeping during the 2005 strike. When the trains do not run, there is almost a subliminal realization that something is wrong. That's why I like to know when the train is being bustituted over the weekend, so I don't go through the day with this feeling that the universe ain't quite right.

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Re: Jamaica Avenue El

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 12 12:38:19 2010, in response to Re: Jamaica Avenue El, posted by fisk ave jim on Thu Mar 11 18:53:38 2010.

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I remember the days of flat wheeled R16's and bad track in the early 80's. The noise now is not what it was back then, and we still got used to it.

When the track lubricators were not working in Cypress Hills, we could hear the screaching all the way in Woodhaven as the trains approached. Speaking of noisy curves, nothing screached louder than the IRT trains at East Tremont Ave. It must've drove the zoo animals nuts.

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Re: Jamaica Avenue El

Posted by f179dj on Fri Mar 12 15:34:12 2010, in response to Re: Jamaica Avenue El, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Mar 12 12:24:35 2010.

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In the early '80's there was a "Series" speed sign leaving QBP s/b (2 points of power; +/- 15 mph). Speed signs are basically the "honor system;" signals enforce the speed restriction.

If there are now timers southbound (post-dates my experience), they are probably just for the tightness of the curve (as at Alabama Ave on the J in both directions), not for structural issues.

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Re: Jamaica Avenue El

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Mar 12 15:55:59 2010, in response to Re: Jamaica Avenue El, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 12 12:31:59 2010.

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Yeah, weird how that works. When I moved from Webster over to Sedgewick where there were no trains, I had a hell of a time the first few nights. Fortunately, we had bongo serenades all night long over there and though they were quieter than the el, they sorta served the same purpose ... and the occasional bottle being broken on the street also helped. :)

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by Fred G on Fri Mar 12 18:13:52 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Mar 12 10:32:56 2010.

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"Oh, I'm disappointed that they aren't Instamatic shots" he said, playing along.

That guy looks familiar. And Nikon still uses same lens mount as that camera.


your pal,
Fred

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(910776)

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by Fred G on Fri Mar 12 18:25:28 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 10 00:58:17 2010.

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Manhole covers contain cryptic and sometimes clairvoyant messages.

your pal,
Kreskin

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Re: Jamaica Avenue El

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 13 08:45:34 2010, in response to Re: Jamaica Avenue El, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 12 12:38:19 2010.

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Union Square on the Lexington line was always a hugely loud station with screeching.

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Mar 13 09:42:46 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 10 00:58:17 2010.

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The El was demoplished before the NYCTA was created- that's true. But it's also possible, though not certain, that the TA or predescssors may have still had electrical conduits in the area that they didn't remove with the demolition, and therefore still had legal responsibility for. And maybe a manhole cover needed replacement during this interval.

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Re: Jamaica Avenue El

Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Sat Mar 13 10:50:21 2010, in response to Re: Jamaica Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Mar 12 15:55:59 2010.

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When I lived at Fresh Pond Rd in the near by apartment house the sound of the El would bother us for a week or two then when we got accustomed to the noise we couldn't hear it at all, but when I wanted to I could tell the different sounds from the standards from the gate cars and later the Q's, got so I could even tell how many cars were in each train. Karl M

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Sat Mar 13 16:53:04 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Mar 13 09:42:46 2010.

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Next time I am on Pratt Campus, looking in the Sanborn maps at the Library, I'll take some pics. I know I took some when I was a student, but don't know where they are anymore. They are on the opposite side of Grand from the Pratt engine room. Not sure if they are still live underneath.

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Re: Jamaica Avenue El

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 13 18:09:20 2010, in response to Re: Jamaica Avenue El, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Sat Mar 13 10:50:21 2010.

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With the old LIRR diesels, I used to know if it was a GP38 or an MP15 or an F unit leading the train by the horn sound. In fact, sometimes you knew if it was a specific numbered engine! many of them were unique.

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Re: Jamaica Avenue El

Posted by randyo on Sat Mar 13 20:57:57 2010, in response to Re: Jamaica Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 13 08:45:34 2010.

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Try old South Ferry!

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Mar 15 01:01:07 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Fri Mar 12 10:52:08 2010.

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True, but as noted elsewhere, the line likely would have had to undergo a complete rebuild sometime in the 1970s that would have including completely redoing all of the stations to fit BMT/IND size cars and platform legthening to allow for 10-car trains (which in turn might have led to ALL of the Broadway Brooklyn line's platforms also being lengthened to fit 10-car trains).

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 15 08:21:18 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Mar 15 01:01:07 2010.

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Fulton St's segment of the J line was renovated int he 8's and they didn't make those stations more than 8 cars. If Myrtle was renovated, they could have just made them 8 cars like the rest of the Eastern Division.

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by tunnelrat on Mon Mar 15 11:49:21 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Sat Mar 13 16:53:04 2010.

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next time you is on campus look for the plans for 76t.

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by andre on Mon Dec 26 17:04:37 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Mar 10 01:00:47 2010.

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that would be a good idea to rebuild the myrtle av el and have a marcy av station instead of nostrand av for G line transfer it would join the montauge street line at navy street

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Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970

Posted by andre on Mon Dec 26 18:23:19 2011, in response to Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 3 15:59:30 2010.

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i like where i live because of the myrtle av el i would be happy if it where rebuilt

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Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970

Posted by SLRT on Mon Dec 26 18:38:08 2011, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Sat Mar 6 11:16:56 2010.

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I remember the coin changers on the belt, and the Johnson Fare Boxes on the end platforms.

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Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970

Posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Dec 26 21:56:30 2011, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Sat Mar 6 11:16:56 2010.

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I only recall going all the way to Jay St. once - and I don't remember the change makers. Usually got off at Vanderbilt, or maybe it was Navy St. from which we walked to go to the pool in the St. George Hotel.

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Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970

Posted by MCI GUY on Tue Dec 27 09:09:53 2011, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Dec 26 21:56:30 2011.

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i took swimming lessons at the st.george pool. that was almost 60 years ago and i remember the myrtle av el but never rode it. i worked in downtown bklyn in 1970. when exactly did it stop running.

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Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970

Posted by BMRR on Tue Dec 27 10:18:49 2011, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by MCI GUY on Tue Dec 27 09:09:53 2011.

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1969- the date is in this thread some where.
I was on one of the last trains out of Jay Street,and
have the ticket or transfer that they gave out. Not sure how
to post a pix on here, other wise I would scan it and post.


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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 27 14:54:24 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Fred G on Fri Mar 5 08:48:32 2010.

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As I have said in many posts an old time ERA member and professional engineer once told me that Myrtle could handle anything that the nYCTS had including the D types which were among the heaviest cars that the BMT had. As for the type of car that was to possible replace the Qs, the contract number was R-39 and probably would have been more like an R-38 than an R-32 but of lightweight stainless steel construction nonetheless. The re was to be a sing;e order to be split between the Myrtle Av el in Bkln and the 3 Av el in the Bx. Prior to that there were rumors in the early 1960s of IRT Lo-Vs being sent to Myrtle but for whatever reason nothing ever came of that and by the time that enough R-12s would have been available, Myrtle had ceased operation and only 3 Av got those cars till the end.

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 27 15:00:01 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Mar 6 17:09:43 2010.

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It was indeed and I had the good fortune to be a M/M on it. There are some who would say that an el causes a blight on the neighborhood that it travels over but having seen photos of the old Fulton St el passing through the neighborhoods from downtown Bkln all the way out, I think that an el often ADDS character to a neighborhood rather than detracting from it. 86 St in Bensonhurst under the West End el structure is a good example as are certain parts of neighborhoods in the Bx and Queens which thrive probably in part due to the very presence of the el above the streets.

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 27 15:14:25 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 5 13:26:17 2010.

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As I mentioned in my other post there was a contract number (R-39) set aside for a common fleet for both the 3 and Myrtle els.

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Dec 27 15:16:40 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Mar 13 09:42:46 2010.

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There was a block and a half section of the old Lex el that remained attached to Myrtle Ave. It carried the electrical conduits from underground to the el structure until sometime in 1952. On either 1/17/53 or 1/21/53, the Grand Ave station on the Myrtle Ave el was also closed. The NYCTA came into being on 6/15/53. perhaps, the new TA finished up the jobs and put their manholes there!

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 27 15:36:09 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 7 03:02:09 2010.

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I wouldn't call it a waste of money since even if the Fulton St el were not connected to the subway at Ashland Pl, there were plans to relocate the Fulton St El at Boerum Pl to a new structure to be built over Adams St and connected to the Myrtle Av el structure at that point and routed into the Sands St terminal. This connection would have required that portion of the existing Adams St el structure to be rebuilt to dual contract standards and interestingly, along with that rebuilding, the Myrtle structure would have been truncated at Flatbush Ext. At that location, a new terminal for the Myrtle was to have been constructed to provide for a new terminal and connection to the BRT subway at Gold St (Myrtle Av). Even back then the BRT realized that thee structure work at the Myrtle El stations would not have permitted the rebuilding of the structure to fit the steel cars except at prohibitive expense.

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by Edwards! on Tue Dec 27 15:47:39 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 23:19:51 2010.

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Nice pics of the BWAY/graham shopping area and the EL.

My wife loves that place.

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by Edwards! on Tue Dec 27 15:48:10 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 23:19:51 2010.

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Nice pics of the BWAY/graham shopping area and the EL.

My wife loves that place.
another way to spend money..

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 27 15:49:03 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Mar 5 17:05:22 2010.

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If the TA had REALLY wanted to it could have painted out the word "Astoria" on the #8 sign like was done with some of the EE signs on the R-9s that had "8th Ave" painted out on cars that didn't have "EE Via Broadway" signs installed.

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 27 15:51:50 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Mar 6 06:34:17 2010.

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At that point in time either a V or W cold have been used or even a T or Z since there were no plans then to use those letters. Even a "Y" could have been used since it is the second letter in the name "Myrtle."

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by Edwards! on Tue Dec 27 15:54:31 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Mar 6 17:09:43 2010.

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Still is something..the longest elevated line in the city..the oldest sections still in use today..plus an outside view you only pay 2.25 for..cant beat it.

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Dec 27 16:01:54 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Mar 6 17:09:43 2010.

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It was a great ride, especially on the express track between Eastern Pkwy and just west of Marcy Ave, where it merged into the 2 Willy B tracks!

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 27 16:08:21 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 03:56:11 2010.

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Actually, the R-16s spent their early years on the BMT (pre J) Jamaica Line prior to being assigned to the RR and eventually the EE and GG. I believe they were actually the heaviest of the SMEEs. I believe most of the ones that burst into flame were the GEs which had a unique resistor cooling system that operated by a blower that ran in conjunction with the motor generator. I actually saw one of them burst into flames on a Bway Bkln lcl that was coming up from E/Pky to Atlantic Av. As the train was crossing over into Atlantic the motor generator exploded and a cloud of red smoke billowed out from it. Fortunately the train made it into the Atlantic Av middle without blocking either the Bway Bkln or 14 St lines. I did have the misfortune to operate the R-16s on the RR in 1969 and even the WH ones operated poorly. Since the IRT GE R-17s through 22s used basically the same resistor cooling system as the R-16s, I wonder if the IRT had as much trouble with their similarly equipped cars as the BMT/IND had with the R-16s.

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 27 16:10:51 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 5 23:52:42 2010.

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Actually the Myrtle was set to Bkln Union El standards since its older than any part of the IRT.

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 27 16:14:03 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by randyo on Tue Dec 27 15:00:01 2011.

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not to mention the seriously gentrified parts of Chicago w/elevated lines.

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Re: Jamaica Avenue El

Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 27 16:14:52 2011, in response to Re: Jamaica Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 11 19:42:13 2010.

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Are those the remaining portion of the old West Farms Yard near E 180?

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Re: Myrtle Avenue El

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 27 16:20:32 2011, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by randyo on Tue Dec 27 16:08:21 2011.

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Dunno ... but when it was time for the 17's to start going away, there seemed to be quite a few of them left. I've heard from others that the 17's didn't do all that poorly since the cars were the smaller and lighter for having all the same stuff underneath. Might have made a difference there. :)

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