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| Re: Myrtle Avenue El (907650) | |
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| (908539) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 00:01:57 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Fred G on Fri Mar 5 18:13:23 2010. True, but the same could have easily been done on the Myrtle too, if needed. |
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| (908543) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 00:06:22 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Mar 5 17:35:24 2010. What was the point of these dumb double different letters anyway? I understand the concept of AA and GG and LL, but what the hell is MJ or QJ???? |
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| (908546) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 00:43:03 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 00:06:22 2010. I actually asked, and the trainsmaster spake thusly ... M for Myrtle, J for Jamaica. Q for Brighton, J for Jamaica. But then it got squirrelier. Q for Brighton, B for Broadaway. R for 4th Avenue, J for Jamaica. J for Jamaica, J for Jamaica slowly. Then he stuck his finger in his mouth and feigned pulling a trigger and said "that's the NX." :) |
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| (908559) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Mar 6 03:21:12 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 00:43:03 2010. The trainmaster was wrong. The "B" in QB was for via BRIDGE, a holdover from pre Chrystie days when the Brighton Lcls ran via tunnel (QT) when the Brighton Exp was running and via bridge (QB) when the Brighton Exp was not running. Although according to the IND lettering system, trains running express anywhere on their route were to carry a single letter denoting express, certain individuals in the TA wanted the post Chrystie Bway/Brighton service to be designated as a local (QB) since it was local on the Brighton Line. |
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| (908560) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Mar 6 03:23:57 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 5 16:56:09 2010. Those girders would be just to the right of the first photo where the stairway to the street passes directly under the structure. |
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| (908561) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Mar 6 03:27:13 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 5 23:53:54 2010. The R-16s were even heavier. |
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| (908563) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 03:31:22 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by randyo on Sat Mar 6 03:21:12 2010. Right ... now that you mention it, you're right ... he DID say that though, but we all knew he was busting chops ... particularly the NX part. :) |
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| (908564) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 03:35:06 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 03:31:22 2010. BTW, sure you knew him ... name was Dominick. Forget if it was his first or last name - us IND guys avoided him like the plague because he was an old BMT head who really didn't like our "invasion" ... another quote, "bad enough we've got the F'd train, we don't need YOU guys too" after Chrystie. The QT and TT had gone to that layup in the sky when I landed there. |
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| (908565) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Mar 6 03:40:23 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 03:35:06 2010. I don't recall any trainmaster with either a first or last name of Dominick and I knew most of them. Are you sure it wasn't Dunning? |
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| (908566) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Mar 6 03:42:12 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Mar 5 18:19:08 2010. Were the R16s any better? |
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| (908567) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 03:49:55 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by randyo on Sat Mar 6 03:40:23 2010. Maybe ... been a long time. Crusty old type and a championship ballbuster ... that was all out of the "know your punch" lecture we got. |
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| (908568) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 03:54:41 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 03:49:55 2010. Sorry for the add-on again ... I'm rather distracted at the moment working on computer code, and trying to finish for the night so I can get some sleep ... "it's a terrible thing to lose one's mind" as Dan Quayle said ... he was the AM trainmaster weekdays at STL, and we were warned to avoid him at all costs when I was breaking in on the D. It would be December of 1970 if that helps you place who I'm trying to remember. But he came out on the platform to our group and rattled off what I posted. I made the mistake of breaking out laughing. He didn't like that at all. :( |
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| (908569) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 03:56:11 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Mar 6 03:42:12 2010. They were mostly confined to the RR, what little of them hadn't burst into flames. I never ventured down there aside from a reroute so don't remember ever having any on the nose. Only ran a few 27/30's, I tended to get 32's and arnines ... |
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| (908570) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 04:01:55 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by randyo on Sat Mar 6 03:21:12 2010. BTW ... MJ ... based on that logic, wouldn't it have made more sense to give the M the MJ monicker since the MJ only crossed Broadway, but didn't actually run on it? Then again, what am I saying? Sense. Heh. Whoops. :) |
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| (908572) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sat Mar 6 04:19:42 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 23:19:51 2010. i love the Broadway El. the street shadows, the support beams, the stairways leading up to the platforms, rattle of the structure as trains pass, stations every couple of blocks...if there is a Heaven, it has a Broadway El in it. |
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| (908573) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 04:22:50 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 04:01:55 2010. Yeah, that doesn't seem to make much sense... |
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| (908574) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sat Mar 6 04:24:44 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 5 11:23:57 2010. I disagree; structural engineering is not a "new" science. Read old Scientific Americans for proof of that. |
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| (908575) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 04:26:39 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 04:22:50 2010. Ah well ... it was the Wholly Ronan Empire, the caesarean birth of today's Empty-yay ... "trains at a glance" and they MEANT it ... :) |
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| (908577) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 04:37:57 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by ntrainride on Sat Mar 6 04:19:42 2010. Wow, we do agree on some things. It's also one of the most interesting areas to ride through. There's something about the old buildings and grittiness of the cityscape there that makes it one of the most interesting els in the city. |
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| (908578) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 04:38:59 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by randyo on Sat Mar 6 03:27:13 2010. Yeah, those things were beasts. |
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| (908579) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 04:39:40 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Union Turnpike on Fri Mar 5 21:08:39 2010. Metrotech was built 20 years after the el was already gone. It just would have been built differently. |
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| (908580) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Mar 6 04:55:15 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 5 14:04:16 2010. If the Myrtle El had survived into the '80s, I suspect that would have gotten the V or W designation that is of course now in use on the soon-to-be-combined-with-the-M train on 6th Avenue and the Broadway Line respectively (and as noted, if I got to rebuild the Myrtle El, it would be an extended W train that would run from Metropolitan-Astoria on weekdays and from Metropolitan-Whitehall Street on weekends and overnights). |
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| (908582) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Mar 6 05:07:06 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 04:39:40 2010. Exactly, and if anything, Metrotech would probably have welcomed having to build around the El at that point.I wonder if that had happened, would as part of a rebuild of the Myrtle Avenue El (which regardless would have needed to eventually happen even if it survived in tact into the 1970s and '80s and beyond) they have considered doing that I have been suggesting for a 2010's rebuild, and that being connecting it to the Montauge Street line and running it via Broadway in Manhattan, assuming it would have been rebuilt for the modern BMT/IND fleet (R32 and up) to use it? |
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| (908583) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Mar 6 05:21:04 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 4 21:31:34 2010. As said many times, I would rebuild it as an El that would connect to the Montauge Street line, heading to Manhattan via the Broadway line as an extended W train to Astoria (weekdays) and Whitehall Street (weekends and overnights).The only things different in the new version as I would do it is ALL existing Myrtle Avenue El stations would be rebuilt to accomodate 10-car trains (as would the new stations), and because the new stations would have longer platforms, the stations would likely be a bit further apart with 1-2 less stations than the old version (but with entrances/exits at both ends as well). |
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| (908584) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat Mar 6 05:34:46 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by ntrainride on Sat Mar 6 04:24:44 2010. Yeah, post and beam is pretty ancient stuff.your pal, Fred |
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| (908585) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat Mar 6 05:35:37 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Fri Mar 5 19:13:33 2010. How much of Broadway was rebuilt due to the Dual Contracts?your pal, Fred |
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| (908586) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat Mar 6 05:57:51 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 00:01:57 2010. Yes, quite possible and also may have been necessary.your pal, Fred |
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| (908587) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Mar 6 06:15:02 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Fred G on Sat Mar 6 05:35:37 2010. All of it apart from the bit from Marcy to the Ferry, AIUI. Park Avenue station disappeared in the process. |
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| (908588) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Mar 6 06:34:17 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 5 16:58:42 2010. so it's safe to say the K would have wound up on Myrtle. The AA would have become something else.Take a P against the wall... |
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| (908589) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Mar 6 06:38:05 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Mar 5 18:08:49 2010. He said that the TA did not want to put A/C on the old R27/30 fleet and used the argument that the older sections of structure and Williamsburg Bridge would not be able to support the additional weight.They should just have assigned them to the E train... |
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| (908614) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 08:31:58 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Mar 6 06:38:05 2010. It was also determined though that the extra weight of the R27-30's with AC would also chew up the trackbeds faster too, even on the underground lines. |
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| (908615) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 08:33:44 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Fred G on Sat Mar 6 05:35:37 2010. All of Broadway was rebuilt from 2 tracks to 3 tracks, but many of the original supports remain. |
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| (908616) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 08:36:01 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Mar 6 04:55:15 2010. It's also safe to say that by now, the Myrtle Ave line would be the only line serving Ridgewood non rush hours, they may have gotten rid of the line turning onto Broadway years ago already all times except rush hour. |
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| (908617) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 08:37:38 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Mar 6 05:07:06 2010. Another option would have been making the Myrtle El leave Myrtle Ave after Navy St, and go underground connecting it to a line to Manhattan in the process. |
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| (908631) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Mar 6 10:14:53 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Mar 5 18:41:04 2010. I recognize that short weekend runs were often designated as "SS" or later just "S" (even R62s running between Dyre and E.180th). But from the 1972 MTA map and further, this was not indicated on the maps.My 1967 First Christie Edition (shows the NX), actually shows all the weekend or late night shuttles. |
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| (908633) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Mar 6 10:16:56 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 08:37:38 2010. The M train would likely not exist any more in those circumstances. Either that or it would be yellow and go to Astoria. |
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| (908634) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Mar 6 10:17:28 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 08:33:44 2010. All of Broadway was rebuilt from 2 tracks to 3 tracksEven the bit to the Ferry? |
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| (908637) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Mar 6 10:20:38 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 5 16:44:13 2010. Chris and Chris..I agree with both of you...the Franklin was less necessary than the 8, the MJ, or the J to 168th.Having said that, I'm for once grateful for "community activists". I hate to see any rail service abandoned, and the community put enough heat on the MTA to save a segment. And it seems well used now. |
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| (908647) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Mar 6 10:55:08 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 03:56:11 2010. You turned the levers aka faucet handles on R-16s once or twice as a conductor, didn't you? |
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| (908648) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Mar 6 10:56:04 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Mar 5 18:19:08 2010. The Triplexes were the heaviest units, hands down, followed by the BMT standards. The R-68s rank third in the weight category, AFAIK. |
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| (908661) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Sat Mar 6 11:16:56 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 07:25:19 2010. Has anyone here traveled to Jay St at night ? was just like acountry short line, with the conductor taking the fare with one of those little change makers on a belt, it was a real neat time. but I used that line for four years going to H.S. on Tillary St. Karl M |
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| (908662) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Mar 6 11:17:33 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Mar 6 10:14:53 2010. I recognize that short weekend runs were often designated as "SS" or later just "S" (even R62s running between Dyre and E.180th). But from the 1972 MTA map and further, this was not indicated on the maps.You're right. The 1972 Edition of the Subway Map folded three of the SS Shuttles back into their mother services. The SS Dyre Avenue Shuttle became the No 5, the SS Lenox Terminal Shuttle became the No 3 and the SS Myrtle Avenue Shuttle became the M. Only four routes continued to carry the SS designation and by and large these had there own routes and platforms;they were the 42 Street, Bowling Green, Culver and Franklin Shuttles. The Bowling Green Shuttle did share the ROW between Bowling Green and South Ferry with the Nos 5 and 6 but it had its own platforms at both ends. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (908668) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Mar 6 11:23:34 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 6 04:01:55 2010. BTW ... MJ ... based on that logic, wouldn't it have made more sense to give the M the MJ monicker since the MJThere wasn't a whole lot of deep though given to the asignment of route lettes for Chrystie Street. The "J" in "MJ" was for "Myrtle-Jay (St) and had nothing to do with the Jamaica Line. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (908675) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Mar 6 11:33:36 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 04:39:40 2010. Correct. By the late 1980s, the era of massive El demolition was over..so had the El survived, Metro Tech would;ve been built around it, in some way- perhaps even literally. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by fisk ave jim on Sat Mar 6 11:38:30 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Mar 6 10:20:38 2010. I hear that in the Woodhaven-Richmond Hill neighborhoods, some local noisemakers are clamoring to rip down the remaining section of the Jamaica Ave el back to Cypress Hills. That would be a huge mistake INMO, not to mention a monumental waste of $$$ that was spent to re-locate it under Archer Ave. |
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| (908678) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Mar 6 11:44:04 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by fisk ave jim on Sat Mar 6 11:38:30 2010. I wouldn't be worried. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Mar 6 13:03:16 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Mar 5 10:20:41 2010. Boy did the MTA drop the ball on assuming that 3rd Avenue would improve without the el. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 13:22:58 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Mar 6 13:03:16 2010. ....and Jamaica Ave...and Myrtle Ave (until more recently)... |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 13:23:38 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Mar 6 10:17:28 2010. No, just to the bridge connection. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 13:24:40 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 6 13:23:38 2010. Actually, I take that back. to just after Hewes St. Marcy Ave and it's structure was always three tracks, and that wasn't rebuilt. The station still had it's original 1888 station until the 1980's. |
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