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| Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... (534014) | |
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| (535031) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by South Ferry on Mon Dec 17 08:45:03 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by danny at 103rd street on Mon Dec 17 08:37:30 2007. no charge if you walk on the platform... |
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| (535071) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Mr. D - Type on Mon Dec 17 10:01:25 2007, in response to busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 16:35:56 2007. Fight it, you have nothing to loose. Explain that the train was in the terminal station and in between runs and not moving. There is a difference of opinion on the law, some say it does not apply to a train in a terminal. |
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| (535099) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Dec 17 10:36:57 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Dec 16 16:42:52 2007. Precisely. |
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| (535110) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Dec 17 10:48:45 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Dec 17 06:52:50 2007. It actually does have to do with it. Back in 2003 or 04, a sick passenger fell between cars at Brooklyn Bridge after trying to get air. The statement by his fiancee who was also on board and the full page News article was just bewfore TA started the ball rolling. Google it |
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| (535120) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 17 10:57:34 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Dec 17 10:48:45 2007. Never bother the boy with facts. Heh. I got wind of the numbers this year from the NYS Department of Health myself ... :)SERIOUS JUMP! :( |
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| (535148) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by BMTLines on Mon Dec 17 11:40:13 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Dec 16 16:42:52 2007. He used the photography incident as an example of making a mistake on the ticket.Actually the photography incident was a bad example since photography is legal. The cop made a mistake on the law not just a technical mistake on the ticket - it would have been dismissed even if he got the section correct. |
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| (535151) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Dec 17 11:43:16 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 17 02:18:16 2007. Incorrect, most 12-9's are caused by suicide jumpers or idiots that fall onto the tracks because they caused it by leaning over the edge. |
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| (535155) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Dec 17 11:45:43 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Dec 17 11:43:16 2007. Selkirk: "Too many 12-9's"David: "Incorrect," Does that mean you think there are just enough 12-9's this year? |
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| (535164) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Pelham Bay Dave on Mon Dec 17 12:06:40 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 17 06:24:48 2007. That true we head a lot of that especially in the City Hall loop but I blame Lexington Ave Mgt for that since they allow people to ride the loop which is great for the homeless people they can stay on and do whatever on a empty train since most get off at the last stop.. |
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| (535187) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Dec 17 13:03:17 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Dec 17 06:18:25 2007. I would think that is one in the same. The civil liability comes from people getting hurt or killed. |
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| (535193) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Dec 17 13:09:28 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Dec 17 13:03:17 2007. No. It seems that many/most of the people killed (and I'm going to assume 'hurt' as well though I have no proff of this) are riding between cars, not merely passing between cars. There was already a prohibition on riding between cars, so the liability was already reduced for all those cases. Selkirk claimed the added prohibition against passing between cars was due to "Too many 12-9's this year". As I stated, that can't be true, since many/most of the related 12-9's are NOT caused by people walking between cars, but rather riding between cars, for which there was already a prohibition. Furthermore, the change in the law could not have been brought about by an events just this year. That's impossible. The rule was changed a while ago. |
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| (535249) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Mon Dec 17 14:32:05 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 18:23:55 2007. Traffic Court allows the officer to miss appearance two times. On the third time if the PO isn't there they dismiss. |
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| (535250) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Mon Dec 17 14:32:44 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 21:07:40 2007. But it is not an automatic dismissal. |
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| (535252) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Dec 17 14:34:35 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Mon Dec 17 14:32:05 2007. OK, thank you. That's entirely at the discretion of the Court. If they had a huge backlog of cases and felt like clearing them, they could dismiss on the first date. There's nothing in the law that requires the judges to grant continuances.Here in KC, my wife contested a traffic ticket (alleged turn against red light). The officer didn't show the first time, and the judge tossed it out. |
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| (535255) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Dec 17 14:36:21 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Mon Dec 17 14:32:44 2007. Discretion of the court. |
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| (535260) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Pelham R62A on Mon Dec 17 14:41:49 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 16:56:00 2007. But for that situation, you can't judge what is a comfortable setting for one person versus another. Some people are constantly cold and others are constantly hot.And if you use the temperature as an issue for this case, it probably wouldn't be accepted since the incident occurred at the terminal versus at a station along the line. One can easily argue that you could wait to exit at the next station if you were uncomfortable. I understand what you mean but the city these days is, for the most part, very stingy when it comes to letting people off the hook without a penalty. |
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| (535330) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Dec 17 17:07:11 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 10:30:02 2007. No. You should never be punished for challenging an accusation. Everyone is innocent to being proven guilty. And yes it would discourage challengers. |
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| (535336) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Dec 17 17:09:14 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by BMTLines on Sat Dec 15 23:04:15 2007. Doesn't matter much any more since I rarely patronize stores that don't have parking lots these days so I don't get parking tickets...and so have a lot of other people, part of the reason for the decline of downtowns. |
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| (535346) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Dec 17 17:33:01 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by BMTLines on Sat Dec 15 17:11:59 2007. That is one thing I hate about this City (NY). First they claim they need to protect our safety. Then they pass a law such as this one that states you can't move between subway cars. First of all it is debatable if this is an unsafe act. Let's assume it is. But they write the law to also pertain to trains standing still which is definitely not dangerous.Then they give tickets for doing something like this that is not dangerous at all. The same thing applies to other summonses as well. Someone sent me a site showing speed traps in the US. I checked a few in areas I'm familiar with and all the traps were where the speed was unrealistically low where it would be safe to go at a faster speed (of course depending on road conditions) or where a turn was not allowed by a pavement marking that had no business for being there in the first place because the illegal turn would be perfectly safe. The police should give summonses for unsafe acts such as aggressive driving if they really want to protect our safety, (or for moving between cars at least when the train is moving) not for something that may be illegal but not unsafe. As I've said before, if it were about safety, there wouldn't be do many road safety hazards, misleading or missing signage or broken street lighting. Sanitation officers would be ticketing flagrant recycling violators, not people with one recyclable item in a non-reyclable container. It's all about the revenue and nothing else. |
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| (535365) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 17 17:49:55 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Dec 17 17:07:11 2007. Yes, I agree with you 100%. AFAIAC, going to court is the default condition, offering the ability to plead guilty without a hearing and pay the fine is simply offered as a convenience to the person who is guilty and is willing to get that over with quickly, not a convenience to the court. |
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| (535367) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Dec 17 17:50:27 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by BMTLines on Sat Dec 15 23:04:15 2007. Years ago before I became a cop I drove a yellow medallion cab in the city. I once got a moving violation (probably a red light but I don't really remember what it was for) and the cop wrote under location "Second Avenue" without listing a cross street. Every one at the garage said it would get dismissed but I ended up losing anyway. |
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| (535383) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 17 17:56:33 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 16 10:30:26 2007. If you have personal days which you can pick as you please, then fighting a ticket is worthwhile. If you do not, then that is a different story, but I never said that people should lose a day's pay to fight a ticket. |
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| (535386) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Alex L. on Mon Dec 17 17:58:40 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Pelham Bay Dave on Mon Dec 17 12:06:40 2007. The last year has only seen one 12-9 in the loop and that was back on MLK Day. The last idiot between cars was a couple of weeks ago when a woman went between cars to do #2. Unfortunately she chose one of the curves between 174 and 180 to try this. |
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| (535389) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Alex L. on Mon Dec 17 18:00:46 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Dec 17 13:09:28 2007. And yet, I understood Selkirk's message to imply the current ticket blitz is based on too many 12-9s this year. |
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| (535392) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Dec 17 18:03:31 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by BMTLines on Sun Dec 16 09:54:29 2007. I'm embarassed to say that happened to me once. Usually I couldn't care less if a defendant won or lost in a traffic case but in this case I remember the defendant was being very vocal and a real jerk at the scene so I really wanted to win. Unfortunately I started reading the wrong summons from my memo book and gave an afternoon time when the summons was in the morning. The defendant mentioned that the time was wrong and the judge said not guilty. |
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| (535393) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Mon Dec 17 18:05:25 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by monorail on Sun Dec 16 09:57:30 2007. It was gonna cost him money, and it cost him time to go to court. |
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| (535396) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Dec 17 18:13:12 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Alex L. on Mon Dec 17 18:00:46 2007. As far as I can tell, Selkirk's message had nothing to do with a ticket blitz. It was in response to a post about customers being encouraged to walk between cars in certain situations back in the day, but not any more. |
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| (535397) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Dec 17 18:13:45 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Dec 17 18:03:31 2007. Or maybe you were reading the right summons for the guy that was a jerk and this other guy was someone else. |
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| (535398) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Dec 17 18:14:01 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Alex L. on Mon Dec 17 17:58:40 2007. People are that unable to hold it in? Now, I thought what DefJef said about this a while back was a joke...but not this one.(I hope her body wasn't found with her pants around her ankles.) |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 19:43:32 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Dec 17 07:27:50 2007. Isn't tonight the night you shave Bingo's back? |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Dec 17 20:20:39 2007, in response to busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 16:35:56 2007. You should fight it on the grounds that NYCTA should lock the doors between cars on all subway cars if they really don't want people walking between cars. It's easy enough for NYCTA to lock the doors when they prepare the trains for service. You're a victim of entrapment(sp?) |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Dec 17 20:35:48 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Dec 17 20:20:39 2007. No, that defense will not work at all. And they can't lock the storm doors on the less than 75 foot cars - no way to unlock them remotely or kick out the door windows. |
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| (535502) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Dec 17 20:46:02 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Dec 17 20:35:48 2007. True. I don't think he'll win. But understand, the law is intended to generate revenue like parking meters do, not to protect the public.People have legit reasons for walking between car. They look for a seat or car with more standing room. Or they want to be as close to the exit as possible so they walk to the front of the train. This is so common on the E and J lines at Sutphin n/b. Especially when the train is waiting for another train to leave the terminal, and there's a parade of people walking through the cars. It's kind of troubles me that an innocent person walking to the front of the J train to "catch the bus" at Parsons could face a hefty fine. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Dec 17 21:19:18 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 16 10:14:06 2007. I never had much luck with the window on the r21/22's. They always seemed to be stuck. And as for the round windows ntrain was refering to....heck, I never even tried.Jimmymc25 |
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| (535541) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Dec 17 21:26:24 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by G1Ravage on Sun Dec 16 03:14:31 2007. Hey G1....why do you have to stay outside of the cab?Jimmymc25 |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Dec 17 21:27:26 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 09:57:17 2007. Yup, that's the way I read it.Jimmymc25 |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Dec 17 21:34:24 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by South Ferry on Sun Dec 16 12:21:43 2007. Good move on your part. Problem gets solved, nobody hurt & no one gets in any trouble!!!Jimmymc25 |
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| (535561) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Dec 17 21:57:40 2007, in response to Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Dec 16 17:49:06 2007. So I would asume that You don't drink David. And that's all fine.And here's my strange question....Is it okay for you to be in a pub with some friends and be the deignated driver so everyone gets home safe? Jimmymc25 |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Dec 17 22:27:24 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 20:59:54 2007. "It's functionally the same as the NYCT rule. If directed to do so by train crew, in either case, one is permitted to pass between cars, according to the rule.The train crews are, therefore, in full compliance with the rule." But presumably the rule has a rational reason behind it-- moving between moving cars is unsafe. The fact that one may need to be in a different car to exit at the next station makes the action of moving no more or less safe; it is absolutely irrelevant. The fact that the train crew says one may move at that point neither increases nor decreases the safety of the action. Or are these rules merely created arbitrarily with no rational basis behind them? |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 17 22:46:49 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Dec 17 22:27:24 2007. The fact that the train crew says one may move at that point neither increases nor decreases the safety of the action.My previous response was directed at your charge that LIRR crews were advising passengers to violate the rule. As I showed, the rule is not, in fact, violated. Or are these rules merely created arbitrarily with no rational basis behind them? This, I sense, is your main objection to the practice. Still, I don't think it's wise to take an all-or-nothing view of this. There is, on the one hand, an interest in efficiency. And, on the other hand, there's an interest in safety. In this case, LIRR has made the judgment, one supposes, that passengers can safely travel between cars instead of holding the train up on the platform. Plus, on most LIRR cars, at least one-half of car-to-car crossings are pretty easy and much safer than the crossings on NYCT; the other half pass by crew cabs. In my estimation, since the end doors on LIRR cars - especially the M7s and C3s - are somewhat difficult to open for some, they operate as a barrier to stop some, especially elderly and infirm, from trying to cross without help from the train crew. So, yes, rules have a purpose, but we live in a world of competing interests, and I've not heard of LIRR having trouble in this area. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Dec 17 23:14:40 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Dec 17 20:46:02 2007. I agree - I doubt he'll win.Yes, there are many reasons to make the walk between cars, and since it is relatively safe (in terms of deaths), there's no reason it needs to be banned. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Dec 17 23:18:56 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Dec 17 21:27:26 2007. Me too. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon Dec 17 23:38:22 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by South Ferry on Sun Dec 16 12:21:43 2007. Good lookin out...;o) |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon Dec 17 23:40:21 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 09:57:17 2007. And if that's what he meant, he's sadly correct.Thats exactly what i meant... |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Dec 17 23:48:05 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by G1Ravage on Sun Dec 16 03:14:31 2007. Amen to that. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Tue Dec 18 00:22:12 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Dec 17 23:14:40 2007. "I agree - I doubt he'll win."He doubted it, too. That's why he took the (2) to Downtown Brooklyn after his finals and paid the ticket while he still had the $$. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Dec 18 00:23:05 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Tue Dec 18 00:22:12 2007. cool |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Tue Dec 18 01:29:07 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Michael549 on Sun Dec 16 18:08:13 2007. Wow, it was a while ago, I think it was a Q train [R40S or such]. One moment the kid was near the storm door and the next gone thru it and sadly onto the tracks. Sad story. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Tue Dec 18 01:31:06 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:21:02 2007. What if there was an undercover cop waiting? What then?Besides other than if there was a homeless person in the car or rowdy kids, why would you need to go from one car to another? |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Tue Dec 18 01:32:23 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Dec 16 20:40:39 2007. Same here, no need to switch from one car to another. By the end of the day I'm just too tired to bother anyway and would rather just wait in the same car till i need to transfer to another train. |
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