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| Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... (534014) | |
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| (534288) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 23:17:55 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 23:01:42 2007. Your numbers are anecdotal extrapolation, and I'm not really persuaded by them. But let's assume they're near right.1000 crossings per day, everyday even, so that's 365000 crossings per year. About 8000 tickets given out per year, extrapolating from the actual figure published for the first quarter of the year. So that's about, very, very roughly on these guesstimates, 2.2% of all crossings caught and fined. The sanction is about a month's worth of rides. |
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| (534291) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by monorail on Sat Dec 15 23:20:23 2007, in response to busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 16:35:56 2007. 'You guys seem to be an intelligent bunch when it comes to the NYCTA rulebook.'the rule you mention, is NOT in the NYCTA rulebook |
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| (534294) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Dec 15 23:23:10 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by BMTLines on Sat Dec 15 23:04:15 2007. IINM, the police that patrol the subways still use hand-written tickets.Usually there was always something wrong with the ticket - illegible license number or meter number - misspelling - omitted information - etc that would cause it to be invalidated. That's what happened to me. I was caught photographing at Smith-9, and the officer issuing the ticket wrote in the Section/Subdivision field, "1050.c(5)." Look in that field. If it says anything other than 1050.9(d), you have a good chance of getting it dismissed. Look at it carefully. The smallest mistake could lead to a dismissal. If possible, appear before the hearing date written on your NOV. NOTE: I am not a lawyer. I only speak from personal experience. Your results may vary. |
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| (534295) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 23:23:36 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 23:17:55 2007. The sanction is about a month's worth of rides.Huh? |
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| (534297) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Dec 15 23:24:13 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:57:07 2007. that's retarded |
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| (534304) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 23:27:52 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 23:23:36 2007. Translation: The Fine is about a month's worth of rides. The fine is $75. a monthly MetroCard is currently $76. |
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| (534305) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 23:27:54 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 23:23:36 2007. The original post reported a $75 fine. That's very nearly the cost of a monthly metrocard. |
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| (534308) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 23:28:52 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Dec 15 23:23:10 2007. I don't understand your post at all. What does photography have to do with 1050.9(d)? |
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| (534310) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sat Dec 15 23:31:09 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Dec 15 22:09:22 2007. Not bad...I don't know from car numbers and whatnot but what about those cars with the circular two-part windows on the ends that you could open by turning the top window around? I loved to stand right there and breath in all that cool rusty air streaming in. Especially on express runs. Best Railfan Window Ever. |
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| (534317) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 23:35:35 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Dec 15 23:23:10 2007. "The smallest mistake could lead to a dismissal."Do these count: 1. in "Type of ID" it states NYS Driver's License (NYSDL.) I presented a Non-Driver ID. 2. Is the booth# at Woodlawn "R294"? I know my station is "R289" but whats Woodlawn's booth #? |
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| (534333) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 23:58:01 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:48:53 2007. yeah, the delays are north of SF. SF does not cause congestion. There is no need for a new terminal, at least for THAT reason. |
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| (534334) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 23:59:45 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 23:27:54 2007. Ok...But what about what we were talking about? 2.2% is not very many. |
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| (534336) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:00:37 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 23:01:01 2007. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MTA. THE MONEY GOES TO THE CITY OF NEW YORK. |
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| (534338) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:09:25 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 19:49:49 2007. Right. Dutchrailnut's post was totally untrue and totally uncalled for, as you have shown. |
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| (534339) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:09:48 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Nilet on Sat Dec 15 19:40:57 2007. So true. |
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| (534340) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 16 00:10:20 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:48:53 2007. The congestion is caused in part by South Ferry. The slow loop and the use of platform extenders has an effect. It's not 100% of course. |
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| (534341) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Dec 16 00:11:00 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 19:59:19 2007. the source was that IIRC 14 people had fallen between cars, then we took the news stories relating to those who had fallen, and IIRC came up with 5 or 6 which we could find stories onOf those 5 or 6, NONE were people walking between cars. |
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| (534343) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:15:47 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 22:40:25 2007. No, he was right. You are wrong. |
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| (534344) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:16:38 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by G1Ravage on Sat Dec 15 22:09:10 2007. lol |
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| (534345) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:17:36 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Dec 15 22:19:20 2007. how many people get injured from safely walking between cars? Seriously...Why don't they make it illegal to ride in taxi cabs? That's a lot more unsafe. |
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| (534346) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:19:51 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Dec 15 23:24:13 2007. totally |
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| (534348) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:21:02 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by mr_brian on Sat Dec 15 22:26:15 2007. Really? I'm sorry to hear that. I may do it less than before, but I still do it. I look before I step though. |
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| (534350) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:21:37 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 23:35:35 2007. yay! just might! |
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| (534351) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:22:03 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:48:53 2007. As I said, congestion is not caused by SF. |
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| (534352) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:23:05 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by R30A on Sun Dec 16 00:11:00 2007. yeah, thanks. |
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| (534353) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 00:28:23 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 16 00:10:20 2007. There was some congestion on my trips into the loop. But on trips out of the loop, that was where, surprisingly for me the past few times - I'm only a quite occasional rider through there - the delays were going northbound, which seems quite curious, and which I couldn't really explain except that the train I was on had closed behind its leading train very quickly after departing South Ferry. |
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| (534357) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by South Ferry on Sun Dec 16 00:31:12 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:22:03 2007. Appreciate that! |
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| (534360) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by South Ferry on Sun Dec 16 00:31:56 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 16 00:10:20 2007. The congestion is caused in part by South Ferry.Sorry, I just have an effect on people. |
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| (534362) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:33:29 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 00:28:23 2007. you can explain it easily - Chambers NB is the terminal! |
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| (534363) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 00:33:36 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by South Ferry on Sun Dec 16 00:31:56 2007. We'll see how you act after behavior modification! |
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| (534364) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 16 00:34:36 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 00:28:23 2007. There is some congestion north of the loop; that's true.The new south Ferry project, ready next year, will eliminate the Loop's delays, but will not eliminate the other factor you saw. There are other steps the TA could take, in terms of turning trains in he northen part of the line and so on. There are other subchat posters who have proposedsome interesting solutions. |
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| (534365) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 16 00:35:03 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by South Ferry on Sun Dec 16 00:31:56 2007. LOL! |
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| (534376) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Dec 16 00:48:03 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Dec 15 17:02:02 2007. Hey! Today You Knew! |
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| (534380) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:54:30 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:33:29 2007. Ok, I was incorrect, due to a recent change, it seems. |
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| (534382) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by South Ferry on Sun Dec 16 00:55:51 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 00:33:36 2007. Depends if teh behavior can handle me!! :) :) LOL. |
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| (534383) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by South Ferry on Sun Dec 16 00:56:26 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 16 00:35:03 2007. 8c) |
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| (534393) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sun Dec 16 02:04:46 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 20:44:27 2007. On both the #1 and on the #3 trains, the train will wait in the 135th Street and Rector Street stations for riders to walk up on the platform for entry to the cars that platform at those stations. I have heard the conductors make that announcements plenty of times.Mike |
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| (534396) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sun Dec 16 02:32:39 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 20:19:56 2007. -You're not looking where you're walking and step into the gap between cars, rather than the adjacent anticlimber.-You're not paying attention to where your hands or fingers are, and leave them in the path of a fast-closing storm door. -Due to elevation differences in the tracks at some stations, the adjacent anticlimber may be higher than the first, creating a 'step' which you may not notice. At a darker underground station, this is more likely. -Train suddenly starts to move while you're inbetween the cars, causing a jolt, and for you to lose your balance. After all, if the train was stationary, why would you even think to grab the handle bars? Perhaps you fall over and bang your head into the storm door, and collapse to the floor. No one will see you or know that you're out there, and after a few curves, you may fall off the train completely, and that'll finish you. It's also annoying and unsafe for the conductors at their operating position. |
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| (534403) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 16 02:55:41 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 22:27:32 2007. Phoney! Unibrow low-life!!!! |
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| (534405) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sun Dec 16 03:14:31 2007, in response to busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 16:35:56 2007. As a conductor, it's annoying as hell when people try to cross between the cars at my position on trains with single cabs. The train operators never have to deal with this.When I'm standing outside my cab (as per regulations), people will throw the door open right behind me, not only startling me, but almost causing me to fall backwards as well. One time a person lost his balance after crossing into my car, and fell right into me. Can you say "Injury On Duty Form"? I don't like people (I don't know) hanging around me when I'm outside my cab. When the car is crowded, I'm permitted to stay inside my cab with the door closed, but it's too stuffy in there. When inside the cab, the BANGING sound of the storm door slamming shut echoes into the cab, because the upper latch of the door actually ENTERS the cab. A tall employee needs to keep his head away from that area! And boy is it LOUD. And you know how those doors can take a couple of bangs before they close for good. It's annoying as all hell to be trying to make a PA announcement, when all of a sudden someone walks between the cars, and the incessant banging drowns out my voice. And produces a headache. I make occassional announcements warning people not to cross between the cars. Some listen, and some don't. But the reactions to my presence is often hilarious and unexpected, as most people don't know just how much "power" I do or don't have. I'll be standing outside my cab. I see someone walking through the cars towards me from the distance. They stop outside the second car from my position, see me, and quickly duck away from the door. At the next station, they use the platform to enter my car. Walk to my end of the car, wait for the next station, and repeat. Then they resume the car crossing at the next station. In another scenario, they walk between the cars into my car, suddenly notice that I saw the whole thing, and quickly sit down at the nearest seat, and either stare at the ground, or, if an inner-city youth, bury their head under the three hoods that they wear so you can't see their face. Sometimes they walk right up to me, and stand there, pretending to be innocent. And then as soon as I enter my cab and close the cab door because we're about to stop at a station, I hear the all-to-familiar slamming of the storm doors. If the person in question doesn't look like the type who would kill me, I'll speak to them, and remind them that it's illegal. Sometimes it works, other times they feign ignorance, and other times they say they don't care, and they're in a hurry. I've discovered that women are more likely to ignore the rule and simply brush past me in their hurry to get to some other end of the train. I *have* had cops on my train (and sometimes in my car) pull people off and ticket them right then and there. They're usually not happy about it, but oh well. An inner-city male youth at Jamaica Center - Parsons Boulevard threw a HUUUUUGE fit over it, and was arrested as a result. The cops had to drag him up from the (J) platform kicking and screaming. And boy, did he have a mouth! Aspiring rap star, to be sure. His girlfriend was present also, and while she wasn't arrested, she was led out by hand, as she was screaming and carrying on, "That's my boyfriend!! What yoo doin' to him?? Yo, come on!! Stop it!!" So, for numerous reasons, it's incredibly annoying and somewhat hazardous for people to be trying to cross between cars at my position. I'd lock the two storm doors at my position, but that'd only make it more difficult for me to do my job. I believe we've had two deaths recently as a result of people riding between the cars. Fast moving train hits a curve, and that's all, folks. I understand that a lot of people don't like the rule, but for once, can people just accept that a rule has been passed for the well-being of EVERYONE, and just follow it? Like people follow the no-spitting rules, no feet on seat rules, no holding doors rules, no music-playing rules, no misusing the emergency exit rules.... |
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| (534419) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 07:08:46 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Michael549 on Sun Dec 16 02:04:46 2007. as for the former, nice. |
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| (534427) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Dec 16 07:42:29 2007, in response to busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 16:35:56 2007. The rule may be extremely stupid but it is also extremely clear. The officer was carrying out his duties to enforce this dumb rule and did nothing illegal. I'm sure that they nab many people with outstanding warrants by enforcing minor infractions such as yours. The "broken windows" method of crime fighting is centered on such a theory and has proven to work. That's probably why they enforce it to begin with. Either way, you fought the law and the law won. I would just pay the fine. |
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| (534431) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Dec 16 07:51:23 2007, in response to busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 16:35:56 2007. First take a really good look at the ticket and ask yourself some questions:-Is the exact location correct? -Is the date and time present, as well as AM or PM checked? -Was the correct rule number cited? -Did the officer sign the ticket? -Did the officer gave a complete description of what he saw? Walking between cars is not the same as walking between SUBWAY cars? I know these are dumb questions but these are automatic dismissals. The next question is this, what are the two consecutive car numbers? |
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| (534439) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 16 08:10:06 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by G1Ravage on Sun Dec 16 03:14:31 2007. G1 stop wasting your time, really..Let him do it again and get anothet ticket... If the rules say dont do then he shoud not have done train moving or not period.. Pay the fine dont do it again call it a life experience.. You know how many people i see on the Bravo get pulled off at Prospect Park and NewKirk Ave by the Cops when they do the same thing WHILE my train has stopped? If the rules say Dont Move Between the Cars then DONT DO IT who cares if the train is moving or not and i cant believe this is being debated.. |
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| (534441) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by HarryP on Sun Dec 16 08:36:51 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by G1Ravage on Sun Dec 16 02:32:39 2007. I have to agree with the walking between Subway cars prohabition. As a retired Transit Police Officer, I've seen my share of misery.Here are some examples of the problems I had to deal with while on the Job: Youths riding between cars, snatching handbags from passengers on the platforms, with a number of persons being thrown to the platform, seriously injured. Youths riding between cars, throwing printing ink at people standing on the platform, ruining their clothing. Passengers entering and leaving trains from between the cars, and even leaving the safety chains hanging off the hooks, thus preventing anyone from falling between cars. This was very common during the rush hours when trains were very crowded. Criminals walking through the train looking for victims, without being noticed by the train crew. Untold number of Aided Cards filled out on persons being injured by falls, storm doors closing on their hands as they passed between cars from moving trains, some people even falling to the tracks. I think this law makes sense, and in addition to previous laws against riding b/t the cars, in the long run will make the system safer and help cut the delays to the service due to accidents. |
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| (534443) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Dec 16 08:46:17 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by G1Ravage on Sun Dec 16 03:14:31 2007. Check Email. |
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| (534444) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Dec 16 08:52:13 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by HarryP on Sun Dec 16 08:36:51 2007. Going to work a few weeks ago, I was standing by a storm door just to be out of the way in a crowded car. Some old man, had to be at least 80 years old and very unsteady on his feet, attempted to cross in between cars with the train in motion. I stopped him from doing something stupid. Who knows, maybe I saved his life and lots of misery for one train crew. |
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| (534448) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 09:40:37 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Dec 16 07:51:23 2007. Not completely relevant. On these tickets, an officer can correct it in testimony.BTW, automatic dismissals ONLY occur in parking tickets. Otherwise, you have to hope the officer does NOT show. |
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| (534449) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 09:42:16 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 00:15:47 2007. No actually. The NYPD is currently 2,000 officers SHORT, and with the lowest pay scale by far in the metro area (the next lowest one, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, isn't even close).Standards have been lowered, and officers who would have been rejected BEFORE are accepted NOW. |
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| (534450) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Dec 16 09:43:18 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by HarryP on Sun Dec 16 08:36:51 2007. Valid points but why there is not law on the books about people leaning or standing over the edge of the platform?If there is as such, why no officer enforces this rule? It would save a person's life and the T/O's job. |
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