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| Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... (534014) | |
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| (534194) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:32:08 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Easy on Sat Dec 15 21:21:43 2007. There wasn't a lot to doubt in this case. Mr. Alex L. certainly looked like a NYCT employee going about his duties. In Mr. Nilet's case, there are a lot of unresolved questions about that incident. In the latter incident, there's a lot more that has to be established.To be sure, you'll see in this topic that I do say that NYPD has done valuable things with their authority, here. |
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| (534195) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:33:41 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by G1Ravage on Sat Dec 15 21:29:50 2007. The automated announcements on the R-142 programmed for the (1) line tell customers to walk along the platform at Rector Street to reach the front section.The Bulletin for employees also tells us to inform customers to walk along the platform ONLY to change cars for those going to South Ferry. Do you judge that this procedure holds up trains? |
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| (534196) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Dec 15 21:35:00 2007, in response to busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 16:35:56 2007. Please do not criticize me as I am not that knowledgeable about this subject, but can't the MTA just lock the end doors and in am emergency the crew will unlock them? The stickers on the end of the R46s say that. |
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| (534197) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:36:35 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Dec 15 21:30:15 2007. If everyone contested every ticket, then it would cost them so much that they would never receive any revenue from the tickets, thus defeating the purpose of using tickets for revenue.I doubt it. There would be countermeasures by the state. And it's not practical for everyone to contest tickets. |
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| (534199) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 21:38:15 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:08:04 2007. The perp in the article really didn't care whether he killed someone doing his pursesnatching or not. Honestly, this is someone who needs to be caught in the act doing it.True justrice would be in the officer's report: "Subject was seen grabbing at person's handbag and dress; victim fell and was being dragged. I shouted my identification but the suspect did not respond. I fired one shot from my service pistol, striking the suspect in the torso. Suspect underwent CPR on the platform but expired." |
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| (534200) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 21:38:39 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:14:34 2007. The problem is this, however:Crime doesn't pay. Neither does the NYPD. It has gotten to the point where standards have been lowered. |
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| (534201) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 21:39:37 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Dec 15 21:30:15 2007. However, the question would be: Can a judge impose additional penalties if (s)he feels that there was no real valid mitigating circumstance? |
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| (534202) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Railman718 on Sat Dec 15 21:41:15 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:33:41 2007. Do you judge that this procedure holds up trains?No it dosent(i should know i worked the 1 train) and 99% of the time there is a train at South Ferry anyway. |
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| (534203) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 21:41:22 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by G1Ravage on Sat Dec 15 21:29:50 2007. And that is what I mentioned. One needs to get to the fifth car. But one would only be at the seventh car walking from one to the next at 110 Street initial boarding, boarding in the last car...and BEHIND the C/R's position instead of in front of it from 96 Street.Conductors usually will not wait for someone to get an additional car. |
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| (534204) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 21:41:55 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 21:41:22 2007. In addition, at Rector, the train can usually hold for a while. Not on Lenox. |
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| (534205) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 21:44:05 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Easy on Sat Dec 15 21:21:43 2007. The person in question (Alex L.) is a train service supervisor, and performance of his official duties requires walking between cars of the train.Employees are identifiable clearly by uniform and EPIC pass. Can it get ANY MORE obvious in the case of an on-duty employee of the NYC Transit Authority? |
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| (534206) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:44:54 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Dec 15 21:35:00 2007. can't the MTA just lock the end doors and in am emergency the crew will unlock them? The stickers on the end of the R46s say that.Not practicable, I think. In the event of an emergency or nightmare scenario, the doors have to be operable by passengers. I recall reading in the newspaper that in the event of emergency, the glass on the end doors of "the longest cars" (75' cars) pops out readily if pushed. It's important to have flexibility in the event of a Colin Ferguson or other deranged person. With the 75' cars, I believe that the issue is that there's not enough clearance between the cars on some turns to permit safe passage. So I think that's why those cars have this extra precaution as compared to the rest of the fleet. Is it too much of a precaution compared to the need to escape readily if required? I don't know enough to answer that question, which sounds like a difficult policy analysis involving different probabilities. |
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| (534208) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:48:53 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Railman718 on Sat Dec 15 21:41:15 2007. Thanks. I know there's congestion in that area, particularly going northbound from South Ferry, oddly enough, my last few trips through there, not so much southbound into the loop. |
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| (534210) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 21:51:22 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:44:54 2007. The MTA could do what the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority does on the Blue, Red, and Orange Lines...lock the doors, but install a BIG handle on one side that would unlock it in an emergency.The Blue Line cars are basically PA car clones, but are locked at each end. (Transverse cabs can also be opened by customers in an emergency, unless at the end of the train.) |
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| (534211) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Robert King on Sat Dec 15 21:52:30 2007, in response to busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 16:35:56 2007. Huh? I thought you were allowed to walk between subway cars in New York?-Robert King |
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| (534214) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:55:52 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 21:51:22 2007. I like that idea. It strikes me as similar to what our commuter services here do with their closed cars; hand-operable bars lock a door, except for the train-end doors, which are locked. |
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| (534215) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Dec 15 21:56:20 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:44:54 2007. I think a reasonable solution would be to install an intercom in the 75 footers (once again if there is, I do not know that much about this subject, so don't quote me on that one) like the ones on the newer cars and install a feature that allows the conductor/operator to unlock all end doors in the train. |
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| (534216) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:57:07 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Robert King on Sat Dec 15 21:52:30 2007. I thought you were allowed to walk between subway cars in New York?Indeed. You were allowed between cars prior to December 2005, if I recall right. Then, they implemented a change in the rules. |
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| (534218) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Dec 15 21:58:01 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:44:54 2007. I think a reasonable solution would be to install an intercom in the 75 footers (once again if there is, I do not know that much about this subject, so don't quote me on that one) like the ones on the newer cars and install a feature that allows the conductor/operator to unlock all end doors in the train. |
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| (534219) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 21:59:38 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Dec 15 21:58:01 2007. We'll see what goes into the design of any future 75' NYCT cars like the rumored R179.... |
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| (534221) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sat Dec 15 22:09:10 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Alex L. on Sat Dec 15 20:42:10 2007. LOLNow that I work on B Division equipment with lots of single cabs, I'm walking between cars all the time! Sometimes I've had cops in one of my operating cars, and while they looked up and were salivating when they heard the storm door open, they didn't pounce. ;-) |
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| (534222) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Dec 15 22:09:22 2007, in response to busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 16:35:56 2007. Glad they didn't have this law when I was a teen as I always rode between cars. I especially loved to ride between cars on the Jamaica El all the way from the LIRR at Sutphin to Manhattan. The best part was the curves on the part from Jamaica Av to Fulton Street by Franklin K Lane.The underground expresses were also alot of fun between cars. |
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| (534226) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Alex L. on Sat Dec 15 22:15:54 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 21:06:33 2007. I said THREE times, so that would be three different cops.I would think the this prohibition does not apply to NYCT employees. I would think so to, but it seems that three cops didn't think that way at first. |
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| (534228) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Dec 15 22:19:20 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 19:15:07 2007. Yes it does protect the city from lawsuits, especially if the city can show that they have good faith in enforcing it. But lawsuits stem from INJURIES, and the city really does NOT want to see its geese injured. They would much rather have you at work, earning an income and paying taxes.ROAR |
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| (534229) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Alex L. on Sat Dec 15 22:19:58 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Dec 15 21:35:00 2007. The 75' cars (R44, R46, R68/A) come with this feature. It doesn't exist in any of the other car classes. |
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| (534231) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by mr_brian on Sat Dec 15 22:26:15 2007, in response to busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 16:35:56 2007. This is exactly why I don't cross between cars anymore, period. |
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| (534232) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Sat Dec 15 22:27:06 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 18:10:44 2007. And this is why you got that ticket. |
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| (534233) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 22:27:32 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Bergit on Sat Dec 15 19:50:48 2007. I got my numbers from discussions held here and elsewhere that were based on newspaper reports and local people's knowledge of past "between car fatality incidents". Almost all incidents where the particulars are known consisted of people peeing or playing or what-have-you between cars. They were not people simply crossing between cars, as is done hundreds or thousands of times per day.At the time this law came out, I even put up the numbers to show that it was safer to walk between cars than ride in a taxi. |
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| (534234) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 22:27:46 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Bergit on Sat Dec 15 19:34:17 2007. You misread my post. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sat Dec 15 22:34:09 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 21:09:11 2007. That's because cops have forgotten the meaning of the words COMMON SENSE. |
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| (534239) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sat Dec 15 22:36:46 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 21:38:39 2007. Yup - we are certainly getting what we pay for when it comes to the NYPD |
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| (534242) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Dec 15 22:39:13 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Alex L. on Sat Dec 15 22:19:58 2007. Alright, thanks for the information Alex L. |
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| (534243) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 22:39:28 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Kriston Lewis on Sat Dec 15 22:27:06 2007. Wow... 3 pages in a 5-hour span.Anyways, Since Woodlawn isnt normally flooded by cops at discreet locations like today, I took the chance (besides, the train was bound to pull out any second.) If anyone who is currently/has previously worked out of WDL can prove my theory that the station is more often flooded by T/O's, C/R's, TSS's, cleaners, with an RTO office, a cleaner's closet, other crew offices, CCTV, and therefore cops shouldnt be needed at the station, let all of us know. |
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| (534244) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 22:39:35 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Alex L. on Sat Dec 15 22:19:58 2007. There can be some modifications, however, that could permit all car classes to have end doors normally locked (but have them openable in an emergency, or with a key held by employees). |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 22:39:53 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Alex L. on Sat Dec 15 22:15:54 2007. Well, the NYPD gets what it doesn't pay for. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 22:40:25 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by BMTLines on Sat Dec 15 22:36:46 2007. You mean getting what you AREN'T paying for. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Sat Dec 15 22:45:59 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by BMTLines on Sat Dec 15 22:34:09 2007. The only thing cops know is:People with cameras=Terrorists Minorities=Suspects* *I was only 50% serious about that. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 22:47:28 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 22:39:28 2007. Well, they're on a ticket blitz all through the system, and they've been at it for close to 2 years now, I think, so breaking the rules is a risky proposition...as I'm sure you now know.That said, have they deterred your behavior? Or are you willing to take the chance again? |
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| (534258) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 22:49:59 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Alex L. on Sat Dec 15 22:15:54 2007. This is something that your management needs to deal with. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Sat Dec 15 22:51:05 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 22:39:28 2007. If it was that serious, use the platform at the next station. Walking to the exit won't kill you. With the attitudes that cops have today, it's not worth it, |
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| (534263) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 22:52:11 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 18:10:44 2007. And that is why I say that you would be wasting your time fighting a ticket that you have virtually no chance of winning. |
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| (534266) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 22:58:26 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Kriston Lewis on Sat Dec 15 22:45:59 2007. The only thing cops know is:People with cameras=Terrorists I disagree. Only some cops know that. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by South Ferry on Sat Dec 15 23:00:22 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 22:58:26 2007. Some cops even *own/carry/use* cameras, themselves... |
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| (534272) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 23:01:01 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 15 22:52:11 2007. I was leaning toward not fighting the ticket anyway, but I started the thread to see it from a different person's view. Besides, Bloomy and Lee are crying poor anyway, so I wont consider paying the ticket a "punishment", More of a "donation" So merry x-mas to Mr. Sander and Mr. Bloomberg and all of you, too. |
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| (534274) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 23:01:42 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 22:47:28 2007. so breaking the rules is a risky proposition...as I'm sure you now know.Dude. I ride the subway to and from work. On average, I'd say I see 2 to 6 people walk into or out of my subway cars per day. That's just one car on two trains. Now multiply that by the rest of the cars on the train, and then by all the trains per day. Hundreds or thousands of people per day walk between cars. The percent that gets a ticket is likely very, very small... |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sat Dec 15 23:04:15 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Dec 15 21:30:15 2007. That's what I used to do - I used to write "broken meter or fast meter" on every parking ticket if I could not find anything else wrong with it - I used to win about 50-75% of the time. Usually there was always something wrong with the ticket - illegible license number 0r meter number - misspelling - omitted information - etc that would cause it to be invalidated.It has probably become harder now with the electronic tickets and electronic meters but I sure used to give them a run for my money... Doesn't matter much any more since I rarely patronize stores that don't have parking lots these days so I don't get parking tickets... |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 23:05:30 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Alex L. on Sat Dec 15 22:15:54 2007. You are so right Alex. I don't know why you bother with Ron. |
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| (534280) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 23:05:32 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Kriston Lewis on Sat Dec 15 22:45:59 2007. I'm a minority (hispanic), but the 2 officers I met were hispanic and african-american, so moot point in my case.According to the ticket they were from the CTTF. Does that make me a terrorist? |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 23:06:16 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 22:27:32 2007. You put up no numbers to support anything. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by monorail on Sat Dec 15 23:08:24 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 18:20:59 2007. 'If you want to jerk yourself off in front of your computer, by all means have a good time'clean the keys when you finish |
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