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| Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...**. (534014) | |
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| (534547) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...**. |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Dec 16 14:43:04 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...**., posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 16 13:34:29 2007. Sure, on MNCR we get 3 consegutive days off for stress with pay and counseling is offered.if you get a death in family yo get time off right!! and you get counseling from family, so why shoud a mre dramatic trespasser kill be treated different. Although some freight railroads still pretend to be in middle ages and offer nothing. |
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| (534549) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by JohnnyMints on Sun Dec 16 14:51:34 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by R30A on Sat Dec 15 17:00:39 2007. Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat itNo one wants to be defeated Showin' how funky and strong is your fight It doesn't matter who's wrong or right Just beat it, beat it Just beat it, beat it Just beat it, beat it Just beat it, beat it |
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| (534550) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by South Ferry on Sun Dec 16 14:53:03 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by JohnnyMints on Sun Dec 16 14:51:34 2007. We're talking about a ticket here; not about 'that' thing. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (534560) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...**. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Dec 16 15:24:14 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...**., posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Dec 16 14:43:04 2007. Where did you loose your time, boy.ROAR |
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| (534567) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Sun Dec 16 15:59:26 2007, in response to busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sat Dec 15 16:35:56 2007. Can you tell me what is your reasoning for telling us the ethnicity of the officer who pulled you over? does it really matter if the person was green or purple? what it have made a difference in your arrest?As a matter of fact....I am suprised no one goes to the Flushing Main Street station. On a good day, they could write a ton of tickets for the amount of people that walk in between the cars. Just my own personal observation. |
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| (534571) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 16:22:33 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 20:19:34 2007. If it is made up, then the person issued the summons could possibly be in line for a perjury charge, as the testimony is under oath. |
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| (534572) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 16:25:19 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 11:01:08 2007. However, if the wrong person ends up being busted, that person may not choose to settle, and may take chances at trial, using existing laws. (I am surprised that the lawyers assigned these people tell them to settle instead of going to a jury trial.) |
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| (534573) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sun Dec 16 16:26:27 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by streetcarman1 on Sun Dec 16 15:59:26 2007. "Can you tell me what is your reasoning for telling us the ethnicity of the officer who pulled you over?"Honestly, I don't care if I got pulled over by a martian. I just threw it out there so that no one asks about ethnicity later. |
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| (534575) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 16 16:30:21 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 16 13:46:32 2007. You are focusing on passenger related incidents. Derailments, signal over-runs, collisions, obstruction accidents, etc, may all require incident testing. Testing may be limited to just the crew, perhaps the tower operator, ATD, TD, other supervisors or even managers as dictated by the situation. |
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| (534576) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 16 16:32:22 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sun Dec 16 14:03:17 2007. Instead of spending all that time trying to beat a legitimate ticket, pay it, and then, in the future, try to avoid the behavior that earned you that ticket. Taking responsibility for ones actions is very liberating. |
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| (534577) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 16 16:38:13 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by streetcarman1 on Sun Dec 16 15:59:26 2007. ["As a matter of fact....I am suprised no one goes to the Flushing Main Street station. On a good day, they could write a ton of tickets for the amount of people that walk in between the cars. Just my own personal observation."]This may surprise you, but with a few exceptions, most cops do not like writing summonses. As far as the so-called quota is concerned most cops only have to write from 20-30 a month which is only like one per day. The exception would be special summons details where that is their only assignment. When I was on the job they had something called red light overtime where you came in on your RDO (regular day off) got a radio car and had to write 13 red light summonses. Believe me, that was blood money. Nobody runs a red light when they see a marked radio car. Very few guys, even the OT nuts volunteered for it. |
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| (534578) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 16:41:43 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 16:22:33 2007. Perhaps. But plenty of people make materially false statements under oath. To be sure, I don't condone, and in fact, I condemn, the practice of doing so, especially when attorneys know, or should know, better than to aid and abet games like that.In reality, people reduce the risk of perjury by testifying to things that aren't verifiable. Say that X gets issued a ticket by C and that X contests the violation through the administrative hearing. X testifies that the car he was occupying before he moved didn't have its heat operating very well or that it was operating too well. C is asked what he felt about the temperature of the cars and says that they felt fine, but when pressed, concedes that he couldn't say whether the cars were abnormal in terms of temperature. So now X says the original car was too hot/cold and C can't verify or refute that. The hearing officer/AJ/whatever other title could adjourn to find out what the NYCT records say, but that's only indirect, and the AJ is paid to dispose of cases quickly, so the case gets disposed of, one way or the other. Anyway, lots of such games are played, both high stakes and not. Seldom are there perjury or similar charges brought and prosecuted, unless the prosecution has some political motivation, e.g., Martha Stewart (giving false statements during the course of an investigation) and the rapper woman (perjury, I think). And then, there's all sorts of fun and games that represented parties play in discovery, where the sanctions are really piddling compared to the potential reward for misbehavior. In the end, the system needs honor, and unfortunately honor is in short supply. |
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| (534579) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Sun Dec 16 16:41:53 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Dec 15 19:50:41 2007. I went between cars about 40 times today while it was moving - several times right in front of police officers - and I didn't get a ticket. Of course it was on the nostalgia train! |
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| (534581) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Dec 16 16:42:52 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 23:28:52 2007. Nothing. He meant that if the OP's ticket had something other than 1050.9(d), he would possibly have the chance of getting it dismissed. He used the photography incident as an example of making a mistake on the ticket. |
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| (534583) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 16 16:44:12 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by MJF on Sun Dec 16 13:39:03 2007. Just curious but with all these posts about urine tests after accidents I was wondering, does NYC Transit have random testing for it's employees? |
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| (534584) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 16 16:44:24 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 16 16:30:21 2007. Yes I was. Thanks for the additional information. |
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| (534588) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 16 16:48:28 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 16:41:43 2007. "So now X says the original car was too hot/cold and C can't verify or refute that"That's not a high-stakes game example. I know you were looking for one, but you cited a triviality. "Too hot" is subjective. I could be very uncomfortable in a car at a given temperature, and you could think it's just fine. There's no perjury here. |
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| (534589) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 16:48:51 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 16:25:19 2007. Well, if you pay your own lawyer, you can do what you want. If your attorney is from Legal Aid or a similar outfit, a lot of times, they're so swamped with work that effective representation becomes the art of securing a decent deal, so as to preserve the opportunity to go to trial for a few defendants that have the better chances of winning.Plus, often times, the deal offered involves no jail time for a petty larceny, but the prosecutor says that if you risk messing up her percentages and efficiencies, then they'll ask for the maximum penalty. I'd be interested to know if NYCT has any input on criminal prosecutions arising out of conduct on their property (as opposed to violations, like walking between cars). |
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| (534591) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 16 16:51:25 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 16 16:44:12 2007. All employees deemed to be in Safety Sensative Positions are subject to Random testing - (selected by computer to insure fairness). In addition, all employees are subject to incident testing as deemed appropriate. |
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| (534592) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 16:52:12 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 16 16:32:22 2007. Taking responsibility for ones actions is very liberating.Hey - don't say that too loudly, now! As the old joke goes: "If you want justice, it's 500 dollars an hour. Obstruction of justice runs a bit more...." |
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| (534594) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 16:56:00 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 16 16:48:28 2007. . I know you were looking for one, but you cited a triviality. "Too hot" is subjective. I could be very uncomfortable in a car at a given temperature, and you could think it's just fine.Yes, but suppose that X knows that temperature was quite comfortable. X testifies otherwise since X believes that his testimony can't be refuted or even verified. And obviously it's not high stakes - it's a case about a $75 ticket in an administrative process. The city should just save the money on paying hearing officers and all the rest of the process by offering a 50% discount on fines if you pay promptly without contesting it. |
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| (534597) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 16 16:59:35 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 16:56:00 2007. Or they could increase the amount of the fine. Our fines in LA are $250 and up. |
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| (534598) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 16:59:43 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 16 16:51:25 2007. If I recall correctly, the same holds true for railroads under the jurisdiction of FRA, although the details might be slightly different for different railroads, since one property can choose to be even more stringent that the minimum required by law. |
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| (534604) | |
Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 16 17:06:20 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 16:52:12 2007. Friday night at one sobriety checkpoint in Medord, LI, 17 drivers were arrested for DWI in a 4 1/2 hour period. Considering that the average first offense DWI now costs in excess of $10,000 in fines & legal fees - not to mention increased insurance, you would think people would get the message. DUH:1) Designated driver 2) Take a cab 3) Get a room near where you are partying All are far cheaper and safer alternatives - |
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| (534605) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 16 17:07:57 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 16:59:43 2007. Likely so but those parameters can be progreammed into the selection system. |
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| (534606) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 17:13:12 2007, in response to Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 16 17:06:20 2007. One should be surprised by that, but alas, stupidity is so prevalent that it ceases to surprise. The ticket blitz is NYC for crossing between cars is testimony to that too - something like 13,000 violations cited in the last 2 years, stories in the newspapers about how the crackdown is ongoing, and people still do it, then worry later about how to evade it.The best way to get out of trouble is not to get into trouble in the first place.... |
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| (534607) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 16 17:17:42 2007, in response to Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 17:13:12 2007. Amen |
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| (534609) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 17:21:46 2007, in response to Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 16 17:06:20 2007. Now, if NY State decided to make DUI a felony...as it is in Canada...(one thing I will credit Canada for, treating DUI or DWIA as a felony, unlike most US states).BTW, where can I apply for a job in the Department of Duh? :-) |
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| (534610) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Dec 16 17:22:17 2007, in response to Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 16 17:06:20 2007. You would think people would get the message. DUH!Alot of people think it'll never happen to them! Heh! |
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| (534611) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 17:25:10 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sun Dec 16 14:03:17 2007. You do realize that ANY of these can be corrected by the officer at the hearing. Your chances of winning are remote at best. If I were a lawyer, I would advise against fighting---and if you did, you would have to find new representation. (More and more often, judges are exercising their discretion to request the officer.)The only thing that can't be overcome is a signature...and if the officer forgot to sign it, (s)he should never have come out of the academy. |
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| (534612) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Dec 16 17:25:38 2007, in response to Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 17:21:46 2007. BTW, where can I apply for a job in the Department of Duh?Visit that car dealarship that features the Duh Choir in their commercials for starters. Heh! |
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| (534618) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sun Dec 16 17:30:35 2007, in response to Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by daDouce Man on Sun Dec 16 17:22:17 2007. People don't carry breathalizers or blood test kits with them. I can understand where some people may be at the limit or slightly over yet do not feel drunk so they go ahead and drive. |
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| (534620) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 17:31:43 2007, in response to Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by daDouce Man on Sun Dec 16 17:22:17 2007. Well, if DUI was made punishable with mandatory jail time, it might make people think twice. |
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| (534621) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 17:32:20 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by HarryP on Sun Dec 16 08:36:51 2007. That's not walking between cars. That's goofing off between cars. All of those cases could be ticketed for riding between cars. Why does there need to be a prohibition of simply passing between cars? |
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| (534623) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 17:34:22 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 17:32:20 2007. The city needs revenue.BTW, the MTA should demand that it get a portion of the ticket money, likely through a change in state law. |
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| (534625) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Dec 16 17:35:11 2007, in response to Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 17:31:43 2007. There would still be some people out there who assume they ain't about to be caught. |
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| (534627) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 17:36:26 2007, in response to Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by daDouce Man on Sun Dec 16 17:35:11 2007. However, when they find their careers interrupted because of mandatory jail time...once someone is sent to jail as an example, it will send a message. |
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| (534634) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 17:41:19 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 17:32:20 2007. Why does there need to be a prohibition of simply passing between cars?Why does there need to be a prohibition of simply riding between cars? |
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| (534635) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by (4) Lexington Av Exp on Sun Dec 16 17:44:55 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 16 16:32:22 2007. Thats what I said in the previous post. I know I'm "guilty as charged." And as long as I dont end up with a record at 1 Police Plaza, its all good |
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| (534636) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Dec 16 17:47:14 2007, in response to Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 17:36:26 2007. The only messages they'll think of is:I'll take a chance driving another way home. I'll stay away from where they'll likely be watching. This whole crackdown is blown well out of proportation. |
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| (534637) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Dec 16 17:49:06 2007, in response to Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 16 17:06:20 2007. That is what makes Islam great, you cannot touch alcohol. |
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| (534639) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 17:52:03 2007, in response to Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by daDouce Man on Sun Dec 16 17:47:14 2007. Increasing the probability of such persons being sodomized, possibly forcibly, by reason of a new abode, might just do the trick to adjust their viewpoints. |
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| (534640) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Dec 16 17:52:56 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 10:09:58 2007. I wish the commanders would instruct their troops to start a new behavior modification of the subway population: stop holding the doors for riders who aren't even on the platform yet! |
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Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Dec 16 17:54:46 2007, in response to Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 17:52:03 2007. There would still be some folks out there who'll figure it'll never happen to them. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 17:58:47 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Dec 16 17:52:56 2007. Or, rather, start ticketing for those who are holding doors...using mostly plainclothes officers to do it...and make no bones about it, this is to raise revenue. |
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| (534647) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 18:04:14 2007, in response to Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by daDouce Man on Sun Dec 16 17:54:46 2007. True. And for the unlucky among those, seeing is believing. |
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| (534649) | |
Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Dec 16 18:05:44 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 16 17:58:47 2007. Indeed. And as we've both pointed out in this topic, NYCT should get a cut of the income. |
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| (534650) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by trains61 on Sun Dec 16 18:05:50 2007, in response to Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Dec 16 17:49:06 2007. Obviously you have never heard the stories of the Saudia/TWA flts between Heathrow and Saudi Arabia. |
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| (534652) | |
Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 16 18:07:12 2007, in response to Re: Somewhat related (was: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn), posted by trains61 on Sun Dec 16 18:05:50 2007. LOL! Yeah, do as I say, not as I do. |
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Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn...... |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sun Dec 16 18:08:13 2007, in response to Re: busted for moving between cars at Woodlawn......, posted by G1Ravage on Sun Dec 16 14:23:42 2007. I remember in the news some time ago, about a small child who had fallen between the cars because the car door opened suddenly while rounding a curve. There is a danger when one is between the cars.In my youth I have walked between the cars freely, and later as a much older guy have thought the practice to be dangerous. Sometimes the view between the cars for a railfan was fantastic - I saw stuff that one can only see in the darkness of the tunnels. At the same time, I get leary when small children are near the end-doors. I also understand the "freedom" that most folks like to enjoy, the need to be unencumbered by so many of society's restrictions. The signage is there so that the folks who wish to claim their freedom to walk between the cars can do so freely, if they are willing if caught to pay the fine, and also to not sue the MTA when something happens to them will exercising their "freedom". It is well suspected that police officers have a certain number of tickets that they have to hand out, not just for the city's monetary gain but also to show that they are productive. Some folks will try to such ticket goals are quotas, others call them "performance goals", but when you're the one that has to pay the ticket does it really matter. There are times, when we the public talks out of both sides of our mouths when it comes to a police officer's discretion. When it comes to speeding tickets, walking between the cars, and other rules, etc. One hand the public says that unless all 100% of those breaking those rules are caught then why bother having this or that particular rule? Once a rule-breaker has been caught, why can't the police use their discretion to let a particular person go? At the same time "its unfair if some people are caught, and not others who break the rules. At the same time the public says it really wants "the right kind of people" to be ticketed, jailed or worse - the "right kind of people" changes depending upon who's talking. At the same time the public says that there is too much dis-order so "do something" go catch those folks breaking the rules, and then the public chafes at the rules that their representatives help to create. Bottom Line: There are times when we do something that we know are wrong, we can rationalize all it we want, but there are times when there is a price to pay, so we then have to man up enough and pay the fine. Mike |
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