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| Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station (632642) | |
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| (634185) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:12:35 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by R30A on Sun Jun 15 20:11:58 2008. Then post data proving your point. |
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| (634187) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jun 15 20:19:22 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:12:35 2008. It has been stated here numerous times that the 242nd Street terminal is the current limiting factor in terms of 1 line headways right now. Of course, you don't agree with that, so you don't read those posts or remember what they say. |
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| (634191) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:21:48 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jun 15 20:19:22 2008. "It has been stated here numerous times that the 242nd Street terminal is the current limiting factor in terms of 1 line headways right now""Stated here" by foamers who offer no data to support this claim. Repeating nonsense does not give it any more credibility. I do agree that a line's capacity constraints are governed, ultimately, by what hapens at BOTH ends. I have said that more than once. |
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| (634194) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jun 15 20:25:35 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:21:48 2008. Loops have a higher capacity than stub terminals. That is a fact. |
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| (634196) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by MJF on Sun Jun 15 20:26:37 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 15 13:34:27 2008. Bravo. Well played. |
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| (634200) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jun 15 20:30:30 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:12:14 2008. WTC is wholly irrellevant. WTC will probably always be wholly irrellevant. WTC will contribute minimally to the ridership at the peak loading point. I am saying that WTC has never perticularly mattered for 1 line capacity purposes, and I highly doubt it ever will, as I suspect the peak load point of the 1 is constantly moving northwards, as harlem(and north of harlem) gentrifies.You on the other hand, obsess over usually false assertions which if at all, tend to bare only tangential relevance to the situation being discussed, after which you childishly attack those who prevent data to the contrary. That makes YOU the foaming one. |
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| (634202) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:34:45 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jun 15 20:25:35 2008. Stating a generality is insufficient. Show me data specific to the South Ferry example. |
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| (634203) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 15 20:36:08 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:07:32 2008. If yoiu ahad any evidence that increasing terminal capacity from 20 to 24 tph is "shortsightedness, I wish you'd post it.I see that your frustration at being wrong again is hurting your typing again. It's touching to see that I've had this effect on you. If you don't think that new NYCT terminals should be designed to at least be competitive with the most efficient terminals now in service, then the problem isn't empirical; it has to do with your poor analysis of the situation, which involves you trying to justify handicapping the future with less potential to run more frequent service. It's a good thing that earlier generations of planners for the system were not as shortsighted in most cases. You've said that on-time departure is the main problem at the current terminal, but you've provided no data to support your assertion there either. When was the last time that you were at the present terminal? Have you already read the documents issued by MTA describing the current conditions? |
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| (634204) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:36:36 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by R30A on Sun Jun 15 20:30:30 2008. "WTC will contribute minimally to the ridership at the peak loading point."Source? What is the breakdown historically between the rail services at WTC (PATH, IRT, IND)? You make all kinds of assertions abnd accusations and have no data. Show me data, and stop foaming. |
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| (634205) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:37:14 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 15 20:36:08 2008. Stop foaming, and show us data. |
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| (634211) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jun 15 20:43:04 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:37:14 2008. Why don't you ever show the data?It would seem to me as if the responsibility for such should fall on the one who disagrees with everyone else. (That would be you) |
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| (634214) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 15 20:45:49 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:21:48 2008. Repeating nonsense does not give it any more credibility.You're making progress! Just stop repeating your nonsense, now. You are aware of the frequency of service that prevailed when trains were turned at two northern terminals on the line? |
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| (634217) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:49:00 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by R30A on Sun Jun 15 20:43:04 2008. "It would seem to me as if the responsibility for such should fall on the one who disagrees with everyone else"Who is "everyone else?" The foamers who post here? Is Train Dude a foamer? Is Railman a foamer? Is Northeast T/O a foamer? The fact that several foamers restate nonsense over and over does not make it something else. If you have a point to make, fine. Back it up with data. |
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| (634219) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 15 20:49:52 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:37:14 2008. So now you don't trust the description of current conditions given by MTA?And you won't answer my questions about when you were last at South Ferry to view the daily situation? Too bad. We'll have to table this game until you're less shy. |
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| (634220) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:51:06 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 15 20:45:49 2008. Yes. Can you show that they had any effect at South Ferry? Did South Ferry's frequency increase beyond 20 tph? |
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| (634224) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:53:50 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 15 20:49:52 2008. "And you won't answer my questions about when you were last at South Ferry to view the daily situation?"But you weren't there, either, and you certainly didn't take notes on the "daily situation" either. Else you would have had a whole list of daily numbers to post here. If you're going to spend your day at South Ferry, instead of trying to hump the subway cars, have somebody wipe the drool off your chin and count the arrivalsduring various hours, then post them here in tabular form. |
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| (634225) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by Eric B on Sun Jun 15 20:56:07 2008, in response to Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jun 14 04:48:49 2008. Just put in the employee suggestion for this Thurs (we can do it online now!)thoug I didn't mention the 6 or a revived shuttle, but I did mention additional 1's being turned there durng congestion at the new terminal. |
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| (634227) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 21:00:21 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by Eric B on Sun Jun 15 20:56:07 2008. Good for you. It's always good for MTA to receive suggestions from employees or the public. That's how improvements are made and ideas are tried out. |
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| (634251) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jun 15 21:32:28 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 20:36:36 2008. Cortlandt Rector and South ferry stations had a combined turnstile count of roughly 9.5 million riders for the year of 1999. During that same year, the 1 line from 103 to 157 had a turnstile count of roughly 21.6 million people. The line south of Chambers cannot have any riders originating from elsewhere in both directions(IE Those who will not be counted at all.) The turnstile count from 103 to 157 does NOT count the numerous riders at or north of 168(North of 168 is not insignificant- roughly 14.3 million in 1999, with an adjustment made for a deficiency of riders at 181 during that year), a great deal of which will stay on the 1 south of 168.These numbers do not take into account the changes which have occurred since 1999-- The Upper West side has grown considerably, while many jobs have moved from downtown to surrounding areas. |
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| (634255) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 21:38:46 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by R30A on Sun Jun 15 21:32:28 2008. First of all, thank you for posting relevant numbers."Cortlandt Rector and South ferry stations had a combined turnstile count of roughly 9.5 million riders for the year of 1999. During that same year, the 1 line from 103 to 157 had a turnstile count of roughly 21.6 million people." 9.5/21.6 = 44%. Is this what you are referring to as insignificant? Or is it something else? Your other statements are correct, I believe. "These numbers do not take into account the changes which have occurred since 1999-- The Upper West side has grown considerably, while many jobs have moved from downtown to surrounding areas. " Correct. Will some of these jobs migrate to WTC when the new buildings are finished? We'll wait and see. Gas is $4 a gallon. There's an advantage to being next to all those rail stations. |
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| (634258) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jun 15 21:43:55 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 21:38:46 2008. 9.5/21.6 is a meaningless number.I was just posting reasons to believe that WTC will not bring have a significant effect on the peak load point, Which I suspect is north of 42nd on the 1 line. (Which coincidentally, would be about where I would suspect the number of riders on the 1 train heading to WTC and SF would start to become significant.) |
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| (634267) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by DCmetrogreen on Sun Jun 15 21:51:50 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 15 12:59:15 2008. I think the Darius McCollum of Subchat would most definitely be JSQ-K Car. |
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| (634271) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 21:54:54 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by R30A on Sun Jun 15 21:43:55 2008. "9.5/21.6 is a meaningless number."Um, no. Part of what makes ity up is folks returning from businesses to their homes. In the 1990s, the Financial district is a business destination, primarily. So the large numbers of people getting off at stations there will be constituting most of the turnstile counts. Today, more residential areas have sprouted and are being developed there, so in addition to higher ridership, we might expect more turnstile count proportion to originatre from residents as opposed to employees. Well, you did post data, even if you didn't discuss it intelligently. You're 10% of the way from foamer to something else. |
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| (634281) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jun 15 22:08:04 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 21:54:54 2008. Such developments are generally not particularly close to the South Ferry, Rector, or Cortlandt stations. Other then a few buildings in or adjacent to Battery Park City, new construction in the area is predominantly still commercial.Regardless, The number of riders is so dwarfed by the north end of the line, that the peak load point is, and will always be, WELL north of Chambers. |
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| (634289) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 22:17:59 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by R30A on Sun Jun 15 22:08:04 2008. "Such developments are generally not particularly close to the South Ferry, Rector, or Cortlandt stations. Other then a few buildings in or adjacent to Battery Park City, new construction in the area is predominantly still commercial."OK, fair enough. "The number of riders is so dwarfed by the north end of the line, that the peak load point is, and will always be, WELL north of Chambers" Even if true, it does not make the turnstile counts at the WTC area insignificant. |
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| (634301) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jun 15 22:31:46 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 15 22:17:59 2008. They arent insignificant in such a way that the line should be abandoned, but they are insignificant when looking at where the peak loading point is on the 1 line-- It is obviously to the north. I suspect it is very far to the north(I would guess that the SB AM rush hour 1 line trains are most crowded between either 103 and 96, 79 and 72, 66 and 59, or 50 and 42.) These points are all far enough to the north that I doubt the WTC redevelopment would have any significant effect on the ridership for 2 reasons. The first of these reasons is that the majority of the WTC ridership would not be riding the west side IRT local. Most of these people will be coming from elsewhere, and even if they are from the neighborhoods the 1 serves, I suspect they would take the generally faster 7th ave Express, or 8th ave line. The second reason why I suspect that WTC will have a minimal effect on the ridership at the peak load point is that most of the people who will commute to the WTC site by means of the 1 line likely already use the 1 line to get to wherever they current work. |
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| (634302) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jun 15 22:31:56 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by R30A on Sun Jun 15 21:32:28 2008. He doesn't get what you mean by peak loading point, lol. |
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| (634312) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jun 15 22:46:46 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jun 15 22:31:56 2008. Nor does he understand division!but whatever... |
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| (634386) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 16 02:02:29 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by Michael549 on Sun Jun 15 13:49:10 2008. Imagine that the non-rush #5's and late night #6 trains operated to South Ferry. Again there are 30 and 60 minute waits for the ferry. If I am on a #4 train and it has arrived at Bowling Green with 8 minutes to spare to get the boat, I will be walking to the ferry terminal. It would make no sense to wait at the Bowling Green station for a #5 or #6 train to go one stop - when that would mean a 30 or 60 minute wait for the next boat.While I agree that the TA has the facilities and equipment to create a Ferry shuttle, and that it is a possibility after the new terminal opens. I would prefer it if those stations were inter-connected so that there is an "all-weather" passageway to the Bowling Green station. Just my thoughts. Mike I agree with the logic of your post. However if one happens to be on the (5) or (6) train rather then the (4) in the same scenarios that you described and during the hours proposed by Wallyhorse, then staying on that train to an exit-only station at SF would make sense and save more time then walking from Bowling Green or switching from the (6) to the (4) at Brooklyn Bridge during late nights. Probably just enough time to catch the boat. |
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| (634389) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 16 02:13:26 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by R30A on Sun Jun 15 22:31:46 2008. "Most of these people will be coming from elsewhere, and even if they are from the neighborhoods the 1 serves, I suspect they would take the generally faster 7th ave Express, or 8th ave line."OK, I agree with you on that. However, let's say you're leaving the WTC site at the end of your work day and you're taking the West Side IRT home. You're not going to start on the express, because your closest station is the local station. So you'll board the #1, and transfer at your first opportunity. You're really an express customer, but you started out clicking the local turnstile to get in. Sure, you could board at Chambers. But what if you're leaving your building closer to the other stops (we are assuming here than Cortlandt has reopened, which it will at some point). |
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| (634444) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by JohnL on Mon Jun 16 06:57:22 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 16 02:13:26 2008. All of which may be true, but don’t change the statement that the peak load area of the #1 train is mid-town and that the eventual reopening of the WTC isn’t going to change that. |
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| (634451) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jun 16 07:22:59 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 16 02:02:29 2008. Mike has some good points, and I do agree with him on the idea of an all-weather passageway between the new SF station for the 1 (which will have a free transfer to the R/W that is sorely needed as well) and the Bowling Green 4/5 station.That said, from everything I've read, however, SI Ferry riders want to be able to get the Lexington Line right at the terminal without having to walk over to Bowling Green no matter what kind of walkway there would be from SF to BG. That is why I would look at reviving the shuttle during rush hours and at all other times (depending on time of day and) the 5 or 6 train running to South Ferry (5 weekdays, evenings, and all day on weekends and the 6 train during overnights except when the 5 and 2 trains are running their altered route where each is running on the other line in one direction. |
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| (634453) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 16 07:30:13 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by JohnL on Mon Jun 16 06:57:22 2008. not midtown |
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| (634458) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jun 16 07:43:27 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 15 13:22:33 2008. That's my point:My way of using the old SF station after the 1 moves to the new one would be this: RUSH HOURS ONLY: Shuttle train between Bowling Green and South Ferry, using the current OUTER loop station that is still currently the terminal for the 1 train. OVERNIGHT HOURS: 6 train extended from Brooklyn Bridge to "old" South Ferry (outer loop) station. ALL OTHER TIMES: 5 train terminates at South Ferry outer loop station instead of Bowling Green (when not going to Brooklyn) EXCEPT when the 2/5 swap routes in one direction. |
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| (634558) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by Russ on Mon Jun 16 12:52:15 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jun 16 07:43:27 2008. "That's my point:My way of using the old SF station after the 1 moves to the new one would be this: RUSH HOURS ONLY: Shuttle train between Bowling Green and South Ferry, using the current OUTER loop station that is still currently the terminal for the 1 train. OVERNIGHT HOURS: 6 train extended from Brooklyn Bridge to "old" South Ferry (outer loop) station. ALL OTHER TIMES: 5 train terminates at South Ferry outer loop station instead of Bowling Green (when not going to Brooklyn) EXCEPT when the 2/5 swap routes in one direction." Do you realize that there is no local demand for any of the above service options because South Ferry is only about 1,000' from Bowling Green? That probably explains why the shuttle service that once existed between those stations was discontinued, and no one down here is demanding that it be reinstated. Also, running a full length train to South Ferry will reintroduce the same problems that motivated the MTA to replace it. I think that a better use of MTA money would be to buy pink bunny suits for train operators, or to connect the D train to the Cyclone in Coney Island, but that's just my opinion. |
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| (634567) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 16 13:04:34 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by Russ on Mon Jun 16 12:52:15 2008. Why did you make the font size of the quoted text so small? |
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| (634576) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by Russ on Mon Jun 16 13:13:47 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 16 13:04:34 2008. For greater visual distinction. It doesn't seem too small on my computer. |
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Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 16 13:16:00 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by Russ on Mon Jun 16 13:13:47 2008. OK, it's only in my FireFox that it is ridiculously small. In IE it looks normal. |
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| (634600) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 16 14:15:10 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by Russ on Mon Jun 16 12:52:15 2008. Neither Wallyhorse nor Trainsarefunm understand that argument. Too much foam in their way. :0) |
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| (634615) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jun 16 14:59:31 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by EastSideRider on Sun Jun 15 01:08:56 2008. milimeter by milimeter...micron by micron... |
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| (634618) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jun 16 15:09:33 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jun 16 07:22:59 2008. Reviving the shuttle makes no sense; any peak-hour service to the SF Loop station makes no sense, given the expense of building the new terminal. For off-hour trains, however, it makes some sense; but only for the 5, which ALREADY makes the loop, but does not stop. Crossing 6 trains into the existing Lex service south of Brooklyn Bridge overly complicates train movements. Getting to the shuttle platform at Bowling Green from either of the mainline platforms, especially in a rush crowd, can take as much time as simply heading for the exit, and walking to the boat. |
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| (634620) | |
Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jun 16 15:12:21 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Jun 14 17:46:37 2008. You obviously have never used the station for any length of time. It's a small smoky fire away from being King's Cross. |
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Re: THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!! |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Jun 16 15:20:53 2008, in response to Re: THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Jun 13 14:33:34 2008. At least you didn't own yourself as daDoucheMan did. |
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Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Jun 16 15:21:57 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jun 16 15:12:21 2008. There are stations with significantly higher use on the 1 line alone with the same number of exits. South ferry is a minimal problem in comparison. |
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Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jun 16 15:25:09 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jun 15 12:59:15 2008. What's the capacity of the 242nd Street terminal?And 'getting the trains to leave on-time' is NOT the limiting factor of the South Ferry loop. The limiting factors are four-fold: The loop requires a very low speed to enter and exit the station, lower than any stub terminal. The gap fillers must extend before the doors can open, and fully retract before the train can accelerate out of the station, again at low speed. All passengers must use ONLY the first five cars of the train; this means only 15 doorways are available for passengers, instead of 30. This increases the dwell time not only at SF, but also at all stations south of Chambers St, as the announcement is repeated for people to move forward to get off. And last, the herds. There is ONE stairway in/out of the station. Couble an arriving ferry with an arriving train at normal midday loads, and you have the people equivalent of gridlock. on the stairs, and more importantly, the platform. Granted, this is the easiest problem to fix, by opening another entry/exit to the station. There are also the costs to maintain the various equipment on the loop and the gap fillers themselves. The rails on the loop wear out more quickly as well. I'm sure there are other expenses that go into maintaining the loop in service, either as a station or as a simple turning track. |
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Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jun 16 15:27:06 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jun 15 08:20:52 2008. Within its existing footprints, and that available for expansion, it can't be. Which is the reason for the new station. |
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Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 16 15:29:52 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jun 16 07:22:59 2008. "That said, from everything I've read, however, SI Ferry riders want to be able to get the Lexington Line right at the terminal without having to walk over to Bowling Green no matter what kind of walkway there would be from SF to BG."But how badly do they want it? "It would nbe nice to have, but so what if we don't," is the attitude. In the context of so many other wants and needs that are communicated more urgently, this one goes to the "if I have nothing better to do" (aka "never") pile. |
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Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 16 15:31:02 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jun 15 22:31:56 2008. Lincoln doesn't "get" peak loading either...nor do you! |
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Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jun 16 15:37:48 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by R30A on Mon Jun 16 15:21:57 2008. But those stations don't have 1000-2000 people trying to enter them at once, while 200-300 are trying to leave. All using the same door. |
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Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Jun 16 15:48:30 2008, in response to Re: Keeping old South Ferry station open for the Lexington line after the 1 moves to its new station, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 16 02:13:26 2008. Yes, that is all very obvious. But... That will not have a significant effect on the ridership level at the peak load point because, I suspect that most people who will be working at the WTC site who will use the 1 at its peak load point are ALREADY BE USING THE LINE TO COMMUTE TO WHEREVER THEY COMMUTE. Also, a significant portion of ridership from 72-96 walk to the adjacent express stations, as well as a significant portion of ridership from 103(especially from 145-207) and from 50-66th stations would be riding the IND instead.To summarize, there are two reasons why the WTC should have little effect on service at the peak load point-- 1. There are better alternatives for these riders. (the IND and broadway IRT express lines) 2. Those who will ride the 1 train through the peak load point, are ALREADY doing so, with different destinations. |
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