Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? (21793) | |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by BIE on Mon Mar 28 13:51:33 2005, in response to Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 13:10:01 2005. Peter Rosa DOES NOT hate NY, he offers criticism aimed at "fixing" NY. (the fact that you and I both disagree with his prescriptions is immaterial)Gun gontrol has to be viewed by liberals as the ability to hit one's target. Only a TINY minority will vote FOR a candidate based on that candiate's support for gun control, but MILLIONS and MILLIONS will vote AGAINST that candidate. Gun Control advocates need to SUCK IT UP. STRAIGHT LINE DEMOCRATIC VOTER. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Mon Mar 28 14:42:36 2005, in response to Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 13:10:01 2005. I thought The Answer was 42. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Mon Mar 28 15:30:01 2005, in response to Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 13:10:01 2005. Not quite, but I do think that most U.S. residents are at least somewhat uncomfortable with interacting with other people. One way to solve that problem is to try to improve one's social skills; another way is to try to minimize one's interactions with others.Residents of large, dense cities, broadly speaking, take the first approach. Residents of suburbs and rural areas take the second. Perhaps that explains why NYC residents are often seen as rude by so many outsiders: they're simply not used to that level of interaction. If I stop in the middle of a subway staircase to open my umbrella without first checking if somebody's behind me, I'm the rude one -- not the person behind me who bumps into me or who shouts an obscenity in my general direction -- because I'm the one who failed to consider how my action would affect others. But to somebody who isn't used to being a part of a large crowd climbing a staircase, that sort of consideration isn't second nature. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 15:41:22 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by David of Broadway on Mon Mar 28 15:30:01 2005. But why do so many Americans desire complete isolation? Many "Best places to live" ratings slam the big cities. The fact is, I love being amongst a whole lot of people. There is a sort of comfort and peace, yet at the same time, a feeling of intamicy and privacy that can be had on a crowded NYC subway train or buidling.I mean, think about it, If your in some subdivison out west, everyone is gonna know your name and where you live. Is that privacy? Yet, in NY or any other city, your amongst people, yet are totally alone and in your own realm. Yet, at the same time, you can find you nitch and some group that will accept you. I have often found city residents to be like jawbreakers, they're rude and nasty/mean on the outside, but get one talking or comfortable, and it's like they've known you since childhood. I can't tell you how many converstaions start out by me saying "Where Ya from?" and they say "Ozone Park" or "Flatbush", and it continues from there... |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 28 15:44:54 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by David of Broadway on Mon Mar 28 15:30:01 2005. You have a point, though there are kinder, gentler ways of handling those interactions. And a lot of New Yorkers know how to do that.There are people in places like rural Chester County PA and Johnson County KS, etc., who have no social skills and see nothing wrong with that. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Mon Mar 28 16:01:25 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 15:41:22 2005. That's a very good question. This is a very individualistic culture, which can be a very good thing at times, and it can be a bad thing at other times. On the good side it makes people who are brave enough to take control of their own lives, and to think and act independently. It give us the courage to stand up for what we think is right when everyone else seems complacent. On the bad side, we sometimes get the idea that anyone can take care of his or her needs entirely on his or her own. We even go so far as to beleive that other people are merely a hindrance to be overcome rather than a resource to draw upon in time of need. This can inhibit us from forming the kind of community structures that people need to survive.For example, look at the Homestead Act. It allowed individual families to get land cheap from the government to start their own farms on the frontier, where it was assumed that they would prosper once they were free from the constraints of committments to other people that were holding them back. This act was a peice of social engineering that put farmers on isolated individual homestead farms far away from each other. (This was something new in history, because throughout history until then agriculture had almost always been carried out by communities, from the farming villages of medeival Europe to the farming-based cities of ancient Egypt.) But the Homestead Act made no provisions for community. Community was something that kept you down, so its framers must have thought. It's hard to figure out how to strike a balance, especially for me because I'm such an individualist. I probably wouldn't be happy in any other country than this one where individualism is so valued. But it is clear to me that people need community, and just how to create that in the framework of this individualistic culture is something I haven't really figured out. Mark |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 16:22:20 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by Mark Michalovic on Mon Mar 28 16:01:25 2005. That sounds nice on paper, but it doesn't always work that way:"Stand up for what's right" Very, very small minority "Think for themselves" Except for TV and pop culture "Take control of their own lives" Good, but most Americans still succumb to society "Think and act independantly" I don't see it. One kid acts like a baffoon, what does everyone else do? The irony is, the most freedom is to be had among MORE people than less. People these days are not truly independant, they just want "trival" freedoms, like blasting music or walking around in their underwear. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 28 17:18:34 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by David of Broadway on Mon Mar 28 15:30:01 2005. Brilliant observation! When I first moved upstate, one of the most noticeable things was that people just went ahead and coughed straight ahead, no hand in front of the face to catch the spray, nothing. No thought of coughing directly on somebody else. And driving on the *ROAD* ... how DARE another car go around me? Chase after them and empty a clip up their tailpipe.The "internet" and people hiding behind "screen names" hasn't helped either - so many people behave very differently at a keyboard than they do face to face, and that isn't helping the situation any either. :( |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Mar 28 17:36:02 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by BIE on Mon Mar 28 13:51:33 2005. I guess the ting with Peter Rosa is that he's so in love with the sunbelt.Other than that I usually agree with most of his posts. Jimmymc25 |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by UWS Greg on Mon Mar 28 17:43:21 2005, in response to Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 13:10:01 2005. WOW! What a question, bro. Somebody might put all these resonss together and get a PhD diss. out of it.Lemme throw my two centimes in. The "individuality" mentioned in so many posts here has a real downside. I mean, total bummer. As a nation accustomed to asking only "what's good for ME," we are almost unable to ask "what's good for US," i.e. as a nation, as a people, as a community. Good example: getting funding for public transit (an US issue) always takes a back seat to highway funding (a ME issue). We tend to vote for what benefits ME, rarely US. Europe, of course, approaches these questions differently. Even in a city with a vibrant night life like Paris, subways and most other public transit stop around 12 or 1 a.m. A handful of oddballs might use the system at 2am but MOST of US ride at more sensible hours-- so we'll close the sytem for a few hours so that most of US (not just a handful of ME's) can benefit from a well-maintained system. Of course, most US cities close their transit late nights. But that's just an economic thing, nothing to do with the "community." |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Mar 28 17:49:27 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 28 17:18:34 2005. Yeah well when my parents bought this house as a summer getawy cottageback in 1970 for just $11g's all seemed cool here in Lake Carmel NY. It was almost the country back then Man this neighborhood has changed!!! Jimmymc25 PS....my Dad, God rest his soul, once mentioned that "we don't really own this property....we rent it from the government". |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 28 18:07:08 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Mar 28 17:49:27 2005. How true ... yeah, in 1972 I worked for WRNW-FM in Mount Kisco (they moved to Briarcliff years later) on Main street in a house about a block south of the train station and was quite impressed with how "small town" it was. I understand it's become part of that "sprawl" just like everywhere else around there. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Mon Mar 28 18:44:11 2005, in response to Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 13:10:01 2005. Between Peter Rosa's desire for NY's destruction . . .Do you mean Peter Rosa's mockery of that which makes New York a laughingstock to the rest of the world? His lampooning the head-in-the-sand politicians and social activists who would rather wish problems away than work to solve them? My uncle jokes about immigrants . . . Do you mean your uncle's jokes about illegal immigrants who drain from our economy and productivity? Could it be immigrants who set up a beachhead here and send the money they make back to their Third World hellholes keeping the money out of our circulation? Or what about immigrants who absolutely refuse to assimilate into our culture, or bring our ethos back to their countries to make them look like ours so that they don't have to come here in the first place while contributing nothing but stinking curry restaurants and store signs in foreign languages that basically say "Fuck You, Americans!" The flight to non-populated areas, Subrbia . . . Why live cheek-to-jowl in foul-smelling cities with traffic pollution, filthy public transit, cramped and rundown accommodations, and lowlifes who are looking to take from you rather than build themselves up, then blame society for their ills? Hey, some people like it or can't afford otherwise, but why bash those who don't? Violence Because "populated areas" are surprisingly tolerant of such deviance, seeking "root causes" instead of corporal- or tougher punishment. War Suppose our immigrant friends immigrate in such numbers that tommorow they declare New York City to be a part of, say, pick your favorite foreign country . . . how about the Dominican Republic. That one seems to be popular. So tomorrow they come around to your home and say "Joo no longer American, meng. Joo Dominicang now." Will you stand for that, or will you defend yourself and your country against foreign invaders? How? Love for guns Would you rather have love for pot, illicit sex, illegitimacy, or other problems of the stupid and/or unschooled? Maybe you would, because none of these kill directly. They kill softly, over time, imperceptably. And who cares if these activities kill police officers indirectly rather than criminals directly through the proper use of firearms? Yes, there are some out there who deserve to die. If firearms are used to kill criminals, then yes, I love guns and hate criminality. Fire away. I think there is a singular answer for America's and maybe even the worlds problems...People (Americans in particular) hate other people. I also think there is a singular answer for America's and maybe even the world's problems . . . People are becoming undisciplined. They are products of permissive societies more interested in instant and self gratification rather than respect, humility, responsibility, and achievement. Do you hate people? Why? What a stupid, presumptive, and loaded question. You should have asked, "Are you still beating your wife?" Mr. brooklynQB, either you are young, idealistic, or naive. These aren't bad qualities, but your post reads like that Indian shedding a tear over the garbage he sees while mounted on his horse. It presumes there is only one answer or one cause to the world's unrest. As I hope to have shown, answers aren't as easy as might seem. Problems can rarely be waved away if we all smiled. Maybe educate yourself on why these conditions came to be and then devise solutions before painting every problem with one broad brush. Peace to you. AK |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 19:21:40 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Mon Mar 28 18:44:11 2005. Between Peter Rosa's desire for NY's destruction . . .Do you mean Peter Rosa's mockery of that which makes New York a laughingstock to the rest of the world? His lampooning the head-in-the-sand politicians and social activists who would rather wish problems away than work to solve them? The fact is, the entire US and world is some sick joke. NY is loved by the world, you don't see Londoners flocking to Kansas, do you? As for head in the sand politicans, there's one sitting in a big white house right now...The fact is, all 50 states have just as retarted if not more retarted pols. They're lucky they lie close to the equator and have a congress that is friendly to them. When the oil and water run out, they'll be back to where they we're when the Europeans first got here. My uncle jokes about immigrants . . . Do you mean your uncle's jokes about illegal immigrants who drain from our economy and productivity? Could it be immigrants who set up a beachhead here and send the money they make back to their Third World hellholes keeping the money out of our circulation? Or what about immigrants who absolutely refuse to assimilate into our culture, or bring our ethos back to their countries to make them look like ours so that they don't have to come here in the first place while contributing nothing but stinking curry restaurants and store signs in foreign languages that basically say "Fuck You, Americans!" While some immigrants, like the guy that drove me home from Trenton, are out to rip you off, most are here to work hard and succeed. It's AMERICAN BORN that are bringing down the cities. The illegals are just that, ILLEGAL. But that can be fixed. Your best friend Bush doesn't want to fix it becasue him and his friends all have maids and employees who are illegal. When the nuke comes over from Mexico like Sleilk TMO says, I hope someone serves up Bush on a platter. The flight to non-populated areas, Subrbia . . . Why live cheek-to-jowl in foul-smelling cities with traffic pollution, filthy public transit, cramped and rundown accommodations, and lowlifes who are looking to take from you rather than build themselves up, then blame society for their ills? Hey, some people like it or can't afford otherwise, but why bash those who don't? This paragraph backs up my statement like nothing could. The fact is, that whole "Jessie Jackson" mentaliy DOES NOT exist among the Non-white communties I have seen. If for anything, they're more driven than your suburbian kids ever will be. They simply don't have the direction. Violence Because "populated areas" are surprisingly tolerant of such deviance, seeking "root causes" instead of corporal- or tougher punishment. You're all the same. The fact is, I posted the statistics of crime between Red states and Blue states to ChrisR16/27. And he shows me the respect of not responding. That's becasue the statistics OWN YOU! Booya. War Suppose our immigrant friends immigrate in such numbers that tommorow they declare New York City to be a part of, say, pick your favorite foreign country . . . how about the Dominican Republic. That one seems to be popular. So tomorrow they come around to your home and say "Joo no longer American, meng. Joo Dominicang now." Will you stand for that, or will you defend yourself and your country against foreign invaders? How? Just one problem, then they're whole point in coming here is defeated. They're here to be Americans. And in some respects, they're better at it than many of us that are born here. As for the war part, I was talking about the horrors of Stalin and Hitler. About all the killing and destruction we casue each other. Hell, we kill fellow Americans at a pretty fast clip! Love for guns Would you rather have love for pot, illicit sex, illegitimacy, or other problems of the stupid and/or unschooled? Maybe you would, because none of these kill directly. They kill softly, over time, imperceptably. And who cares if these activities kill police officers indirectly rather than criminals directly through the proper use of firearms? Yes, there are some out there who deserve to die. If firearms are used to kill criminals, then yes, I love guns and hate criminality. Fire away. A old hunting rifle is one thing. A police special is one thing. A pistol is one thing. A M-16 is a killing thing. When someone can walk into any gun shop down south and buy 80 guns with no check, then we have a problem... I think there is a singular answer for America's and maybe even the worlds problems...People (Americans in particular) hate other people. I also think there is a singular answer for America's and maybe even the world's problems . . . People are becoming undisciplined. They are products of permissive societies more interested in instant and self gratification rather than respect, humility, responsibility, and achievement. Now you're talking. But you and Pete's demonisation of the city is best descirbed by Jesus's words: "scold the speck in someone else's eyes after you remove the log in yours". The fact is, your land of yards and strip malls are what's bringing down our moral fabric. Do you hate people? Why? What a stupid, presumptive, and loaded question. You should have asked, "Are you still beating your wife?" No. I am a very open and blunt person. I'm sure someone would come out and admit their feelings. It's not like your words and actions don't make it abundantly clear. Mr. brooklynQB, either you are young, idealistic, or naive. These aren't bad qualities, but your post reads like that Indian shedding a tear over the garbage he sees while mounted on his horse. I am all of the above. And without people like me, American society would have collapsed into a spiral of depression and anarchy a long time ago. It presumes there is only one answer or one cause to the world's unrest. As I hope to have shown, answers aren't as easy as might seem. Problems can rarely be waved away if we all smiled. Maybe educate yourself on why these conditions came to be and then devise solutions before painting every problem with one broad brush. Peace to you. And mucho peace to you too. My rebuttles are not meant to be disrespectful to you, but I feel a great many of your points are wrong. But I'm sure you feel the same way. This wasn't meant to give one broad brush reason, but it's a good theory. AK |
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Re: Note about above post (People simply hate people? |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 19:28:52 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 19:21:40 2005. Every first and third paragraph are mine. Just letting ya know. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by UWS Greg on Mon Mar 28 19:54:25 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Mon Mar 28 18:44:11 2005. Remember a few years ago when there was a semi-humorous discussion about whether Adolph Hitler was still alive or not? Well, we have proof that he is alive-- and posting on this board under the alias SilverFox |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by American Pig on Mon Mar 28 20:39:13 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Mon Mar 28 18:44:11 2005. Your argument about crime is useless. Name ONE North American jurisdiction which engages in corporal punishment. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Mon Mar 28 21:04:09 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by UWS Greg on Mon Mar 28 19:54:25 2005. I disagree strongly with just about every bit of his post, and I agree strongly with most of what you've said on this issue, but this was out of line. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by tracksionmotor on Mon Mar 28 21:04:50 2005, in response to Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 13:10:01 2005. People want home and work that is safe and profitable.People want to be safe without police. People want to live in PEACE. People are afraid of change. People fear strangers. It's human nature and not hate. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Mon Mar 28 22:17:07 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by American Pig on Mon Mar 28 20:39:13 2005. None. I knew that.But there were in the past, especially in the schools. What was found so wrong with it? Cruel? Unusual? Simple? Negative reinforcement? *horrors* Disciplinary? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 28 22:30:38 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Mon Mar 28 22:17:07 2005. The PROBLEM with it is that a whole generation grew up LIKING to be spanked. Leather and chains and trunchions and all that stuff. :) |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Mon Mar 28 22:31:29 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by UWS Greg on Mon Mar 28 19:54:25 2005. Remember a few years ago when there was a semi-humorous discussion about whether Adolph Hitler was still alive or not? Well, we have proof that he is alive-- and posting on this board under the alias SilverFoxYour attempt at humor belies your simple mind. When backed into a corner, don't provide facts or rebuttals. Just trot out Hitler, or "Racist!" and the poster will back down. Well go to hell. Not only will I not back down, but I find your correlation with me to Hitler repugnant as a Jewish person and as someone who has very strong experiences backing his opinions. Now what the bloody hell did you find wrong with what I said? Was it the contrarian view that wasn't all lovey-dovey of humanity? Was it the references to race, ethnicity, and sociology that weren't flattering simply to be used as examples of why the original poster wasn't exactly on the mark in my mind? Don't you understand the difference between actual views and trite examples used to illustrate a point -- a point you may not agree with, but has merit and a huge amount of backing nonetheless? Okay, I could have said what I have said more refined, but definitely was I not going to compromise on the message underlying the words. I've been wrong before, and have admitted it to this board and nycsubway.org, when confronted by stronger arguments. Either debate me on the facts, or shut your face, mush mouth. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Mon Mar 28 22:35:41 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 28 22:30:38 2005. LOL Selkirk!Spank them with stuff they don't like. Textbooks. Job Applications. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by UWS Greg on Mon Mar 28 23:59:42 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Mon Mar 28 22:31:29 2005. Of course, I'm not going to debate with you, you clenched-fisted, ranting, egomaniac who-- by your own admission-- has a history of having to eat your own words when you go off the deep end.And, oh how pathetic! A dude who goes on for pages ranting against just about every possible ethnic group and his desire for extermination thereof-- then goes wimpering and mewling behind his own "minority" status. I still say your rants would sound better in the original German. Don't bother responding to this. I won't answer you-- at least not until your Xanax kicks in. LOL!! |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by American Pig on Tue Mar 29 00:16:28 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Mon Mar 28 22:17:07 2005. But its use having ended is not an urban vs. rural thing: It ended everywhere.My view is that its use in schools is not necessary. There are numerous non-physical punishments that can be applied that will achieve the same effect. Corporal punishment by parents should only be used if a child did something or attempted to do something profoundly dangerous that would have led to injury. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 00:34:14 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by UWS Greg on Mon Mar 28 23:59:42 2005. Of course, I'm not going to debate with you, you clenched-fisted, ranting, egomaniac who-- by your own admission-- has a history of having to eat your own words when you go off the deep end.Well isn't that special. You bring up my "having to eat my own words," but that can only be done when you have something substantive to say that has either been successfully refuted by others or voluntarily amended by you to reflect the better judgment of others on one or more points. Since there is no way to argue against shit like "Hitler," "Racist!" or ad-hominem attacks that the user of same arguments can understand or appreciate, I guess I can see how your record of having to retract stuff is flawless. Hey, I am here to learn as well as speak. Teach me the error of my opinions. So far, you haven't done a thing. Just as I expected. . . . ranting against just about every possible ethnic group and his desire for extermination thereof . . . Pray tell me how I desired the extermination of "just about every possible ethnic group." Better yet, explain it to the group of us. You're grasping at straws here. And that ain't Xanax talking. . . . then goes wimpering and mewling behind his own "minority" status. How did I use my minority status to deflect your argument? Did I say, "Because I am a Jew you can't call me Hitler?" Did I say, "Because I am Jewish and a minority, I am immune to criticism on odious positions on crime and society?" Even a fourth grader can understand that my upset was due to your linking me, personally, to a reviled man in history without any justification other than because you thought it would shut me up and put me in line with your views of things. It didn't, so now you are pursuing a scorched-earth policy and hoping some of the shit you fling around the board will hit me somehow. How does Train Dude say it? Go back to your cage and don't say anything until we bang on the bars for you. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by UWS Greg on Tue Mar 29 00:55:02 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by tracksionmotor on Mon Mar 28 21:04:50 2005. All very interesting observations, bro. I'd qualify only two of them. I'd say "many" people fear change and "many" people fear strangers.Some people are profoundly energized by change just as many dread it. Interestingly, whether the change is for the better or not seems to be irrelevant. The "change resistant" dread change even when it might improve their lot. Conversely, those energized by change embrace it even though the former state was better. You might want to read Jung who wrote extensively on this topic. The "sensates" resist change (sticking with what they've already "sensed," i.e. the tried and true) while "intuitives" can eagerly drop the tried and true for the exhiliration of something new. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 01:14:02 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by American Pig on Tue Mar 29 00:16:28 2005. The urban vs. rural link can be constructed (quite spuriously, I admit) by realizing that, somehow, cities were far more livable during times that corporal punishment existed in those cities.If another form of discipline was as effective as corporal punishment with regard to fostering respect, humility, achievement, and maturity amongst schoolchildren, or even the public at-large, then how come it apparently has not been found or utilized? My argument against the framer of this thread in my initial post hinges on some very salient comparisons and contrasts in the degree of structure and decorum during those "oppressive" pre-civil rights law times. While those times were by no means perfect, we seem to have corrected the admitted problems, but in a way that produced many gross side effects that are tearing away at the very fabric we are trying to perfect and protect. To wit: - Crime was rampant from the Sixties through the early Nineties until it dropped precipitiously against the wishes of the criminal coddlers. Imagine that there is a whole subculture of non-criminals (and maybe even criminals themselves) bitching and moaning that crime is going down -- because it is not going down the way they prescribe. They are more concerned with theory than actuality. - Anecdotally, immigrants no longer seem to want to immigrate from Point X to America to become Americans. They want to be Point Xers with freedoms not found at Point X. Unfortunately Point Xers support human slavery, female genital mutilation, poor sanitation, refuses to learn English, eats dogs and cats, and other ills not tolerated in this country, yet there are those who support immigrants' "rights" not to assimilate into our culture. - In order to pay welfare mothers, there are fewer buildings inspectors (rooting out illegal apartment conversions), immigration officers, customs officials, ambulances, subway cars, and other assorted resources that actually have a value to civilized society. What degeneration of discipline caused this? - The framer of this thread even brought up "Depression." I am sure he meant economic depression, but I also mean mental depression: From having to pay a host of taxes without a corresponding benefit to the dollars I pay. I see huge parts of my tax bite going to pay to clean up vandalism, pay debt on notes floated to pay welfare cheats (of which there are many), buy six hundred dollar toilet seats, feed inmates on Death Row for decades, develop unwanted and unneeded football stadia, and other specious expenditures. What undisciplined slobs allowed these circumstances to transpire and flourish? Hell yeah, Americans -- of all stripes -- are spitting mad, and don't "like people." They've been let down, deceived, and manipulated to the point that they just don't care, and want to shield themselves from an increasingly smarmy and "different" culture they never asked for, but is being forced upon them. You may disagree with their methods, but their reasoning is difficult to rebut. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by BIE on Tue Mar 29 06:15:00 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 01:14:02 2005. Welfare paid to corporate investors dwarfs them all. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Tue Mar 29 08:27:38 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 01:14:02 2005. Unfortunately Point Xers support human slavery, female genital mutilation, poor sanitation, refuses to learn English, eats dogs and cats, and other ills not tolerated in this country, yet there are those who support immigrants' "rights" not to assimilate into our culture.I'm not sure it's fair to say this about all immigrants, but let's just talk about those who are like you describe. They might not assimilate, but you can bet their kids will, no matter how much this may disappoint their parents. Mark |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Mar 29 12:00:33 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Mar 28 17:36:02 2005. I guess the ting with Peter Rosa is that he's so in love with the sunbelt.Other than that I usually agree with most of his posts. It's not so much that I love the Sunbelt, it's that I see the Sunbelt as being on the right track (to use a slight rail analogy) toward growth and prosperity while New York seems to do everything wrong. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Mar 29 12:08:52 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 15:41:22 2005. But why do so many Americans desire complete isolation? Many "Best places to live" ratings slam the big cities. The fact is, I love being amongst a whole lot of people. There is a sort of comfort and peace, yet at the same time, a feeling of intamicy and privacy that can be had on a crowded NYC subway train or buidling.People are different. Some like living amongst crowds while others prefer living in more isolated settings. Neither approach is better or worse than the other. In any event, the physical setting in which you live probably has only a weak relationship to your social sphere. Without doubt, there are many people living in crowded Manhattan who have very few social contacts, while there are many "social butterflies" way out in the exurbs. It comes down to what you make of your surroundings. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Tue Mar 29 16:14:37 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by Mark Michalovic on Tue Mar 29 08:27:38 2005. And I'm still trying to figure what's wrong with maintaining one's existing culture when moving to a new country. How does it harm me if you want to open a curry store? If, like most Americans, I don't care for curry, then I won't shop at your store; if I want to try using curry, then I now have an opportunity I wouldn't have had otherwise. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 16:55:12 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by David of Broadway on Tue Mar 29 16:14:37 2005. David you're absolutely right. There is nothing wrong with opening a curry store, in itself. Oftentimes, the sign is solely in a foreign language without any English subtitles. That, to me, is quite offensive.Recently, Iraq allowed all expatriates to vote in their election. Many Iraqi-Americans took part in these elections IN AMERICA. Doesn't being an American citizen or resident alien mean that you should pledge allegiance to THIS country and not the country from which you came? What is the point of being in this country if you are going to take all your old-world customs, many of which are contradictory to ours, with you? You might as well stay where you are. Oh yes. Over there, you will live in a mud hut, where over here, you could turn a mansion into a HUGE mud hut if you so choose, and to hell with what the neighbors think. Now of course, I don't mean this about EVERY immigrant who comes to our shores. But there are perceptibly more of them than there were when your parents and mine immigrated to our country. Our ancestors (and many other groups' ancestors) didn't ask for multilingual education, a host of social and financial services, believed in work over scheming, and believed in achievment. I don't think that is largely the case today. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 16:57:39 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by David of Broadway on Tue Mar 29 16:14:37 2005. There is nothing wrong with what you describe. However, some standards of behavior may need to be modified:Example: We do not allow a man to beat his wife. Young Kosovar refugee males asked about bruises on their wives' faces on arrival at McGuire Air Force Base, Ocean County NJ in 1999 replied honestly, "Of course I beat my wife. She's my wife!" I understand that a majority of the refugees have returned to Europe. Those who remain (when they were brought to the US they were all preapproved, after medical screening, to stay here and get green cards, qualify over time for citizenship, etc.) will have had to make some adustments... |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by R143 on Tue Mar 29 17:00:26 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 01:14:02 2005. Anecdotally, immigrants no longer seem to want to immigrate from Point X to America to become Americans. They want to be Point Xers with freedoms not found at Point X. Unfortunately Point Xers support human slavery, female genital mutilation, poor sanitation, refuses to learn English, eats dogs and cats, and other ills not tolerated in this country, yet there are those who support immigrants' "rights" not to assimilate into our cultureYeah but this country practices male genital mutilation and no one seems to have a problem with that! Millions of baby boys have a piece of their reproductive body cut off every year, for no medical reason whatsoever, and for non religious reasons. It's bad enough that this is allowed for religious reasons, it's even more reprehensible that circumcision is allowed for non-religious reasons. Thankfuly, it is dwindeling every year, as more and more parents realize it's an insane practice to alter the body of a boy without his consent. Circumcision began in this country as a reason to stop masturbation, but that obviously didn't work. It has always been a "medical" practice in search of a reason. Fathers don't want to admidt that they have really lost something, and that it was done to them unneededly. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 17:01:28 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 16:55:12 2005. "Oftentimes, the sign is solely in a foreign language without any English subtitles. That, to me, is quite offensive."Why? The store owner who doesn't use English lettering is only hurting himself by discouraging English speaking customers from shopping. Why are you offended that he has, by his own ignorance, reduced his potential sales and profit? Is it your job to make sure his business succeeds? Let him figure that out on his own. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by R143 on Tue Mar 29 17:02:09 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by David of Broadway on Tue Mar 29 16:14:37 2005. But no one is complaing about that. What is wrong is that many of these people refuse to learn English, the language of this country.Also as Sliverfox mentioned, somethimes the sign isn;t even in English at all! |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 17:04:13 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by R143 on Tue Mar 29 17:02:09 2005. And as I pointed out in my post, a sign not in English hurts only the store owner. Shoppers who don't understand the language will go elsewhere with their $$$. If the storeowner has any brains he'll figure that out. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by UWS Greg on Tue Mar 29 17:04:48 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by David of Broadway on Tue Mar 29 16:14:37 2005. Couldn't agree more, brother. I've long suspected that those who complain too long and loud about others' "failure to assimilate" have other issues. And how exactly does one prove that one is adequately assimilated? Wearing a Yankees cap backwards? Speaking flawless, grammatically correct English? (HA! That rules out most people born in NY-- or at least Brooklyn. LOL) Speaking of language, I know that, at least in NYC, the only thing preventing more people from signing up for ESL (Eng. as 2nd language) is the shortage of certified teachers. A friend of mine teaches in a community college in NY where every ESL class is packed and many students are turned away.And, as Mark noted, all the kids of immigrants will be totally assimilated no matter what their parents might do to prevent it. Problem solved! I was at Brighton Beach last summer and saw a group of teens- obviously born here- conversing in Russian. Just to satisfy my curiosity, I asked a directional question. They all answered in 100% unaccented English. They're totally bilingual. Personally, I think that's a tremendous asset. (PS: I'm bilingual, too. I'm grateful to my parents for teaching me their language first. English was a snap later.) |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:04:59 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by Mark Michalovic on Tue Mar 29 08:27:38 2005. I never intended to say it about all immigrants, nor all immigrants from any particular country. How do people come up with these assumptions when there were no absolute terms used?And even in the fairly recent past, the parents DID assimilate along with the kids. Today, the kids assimilate by finding the host of social and financial services available to them in lieu of getting a job. They find that they can drink, screw, and steal without much worry of retribution. And the parents are either absent or complicit because they see the cashish coming in. And most of those past immigrants were LEGAL. There was no tolerance for illegal immigration. I do not, under any circumstances, tolerate illegal immigration, or the aid and abettance of same. Do you? Apparently Jorge Bush and many others don't seem to mind as much as I do. Now, of course, I am making a broad, sweeping generalization about present-day immigrants. Are all immigrants like this? No. But yet again, there are enough of them out there that are, where once there few to none, who are bringing this issue to the forefront of many established Americans' list of policy matters. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 17:07:08 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by UWS Greg on Tue Mar 29 17:04:48 2005. "And how exactly does one prove that one is adequately assimilated? Wearing a Yankees cap backwards? Speaking flawless, grammatically correct English?"You forgot about the requirement to have a valid MetroCard in your wallet at all times. Otherwise, forget it - you're not assimilated yet. :0) |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:12:14 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 17:01:28 2005. On the other hand, maybe he doesn't care for Western business, assumes no Westerners who don't know the language on the sign will want any of the wares within, or doesn't want the trouble of catty Westerners who will ask a thousand questions about the peculiar items and not buy anything.Either through ignorance or countenance, he put up a sign that said, "KEEP OUT." |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 17:14:18 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:04:59 2005. "And most of those past immigrants were LEGAL. There was no tolerance for illegal immigration. "Nonsense. Where did you read that, Mad Magazine? Illegal immigrants are an old story here - the vast majority of them doing work no one else wants to do at wages no one else wants. Employers have always tolerated undocumented aliens for certain job classifications: cleaning, domestic help, seasonal farm labor, "sweatshops," you name it. And got away with paying substandard wages (which are much higher than the immigrant could make at home, but still submits the immigrant to bad conditions here). "I do not, under any circumstances, tolerate illegal immigration, or the aid and abettance of same" You're a bald-faced liar. Do you eat lettuce? Watermelons? Anything coming from the Coachella Valley in California? Eat in restaurants? If so, you are directly supporting undocumented aliens. If we threw them all out tomorrow, lettuce would be $5 a head. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 17:17:12 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:12:14 2005. That's his business, not yours. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by BIE on Tue Mar 29 17:30:10 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 17:14:18 2005. TRUTH! |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by UWS Greg on Tue Mar 29 17:30:43 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by R143 on Tue Mar 29 17:00:26 2005. Well, bro, the medical advantages of circumcision are rather compelling, whether some choose to accept it or not. Study after study has shown that "cut" males are far less prone to STDs-- which makes sense when you think of it. Just less "hiding places" for nasty germs to fester, reproduce and spread. Most dramatically, a tribe in Africa that practices ritual circumcision on newborn boys has an AIDS rate of close to zero-- unlike the rest of Africa which has been decimated by it. There are even documented studies showing that "cut" males have a lower incidence of penile cancer.Then there are the cases, admittedly not many, of males who've required the operation later in life-- when it really does hurt (ouch!!)-- due to painful erections because the head cannot fully protude, etc. But you're right. For whatever reason, the # of circumcisions is diminishing slightly in the USA. But, conversely, the the number is on the increase in Europe where, historically, it wasn't widely practiced. Greg "Cut and Proud" LOL. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Tue Mar 29 17:32:23 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 16:55:12 2005. I still don't understand. If all of the signs on my store are in Swahili, one can presume that my intended market consists of Swahili speakers. If you don't know Swahili, you probably won't patronize my store. So what's the problem? This might be a bad business decision, but I don't see how it's offensive. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Tue Mar 29 17:34:24 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by R143 on Tue Mar 29 17:02:09 2005. Aside from themselves, who are they hurting by not learning English? I don't think we should go out of our way to accomodate citizens who don't bother learning English, but I also see no reason to force people to learn English if they think they can get by without knowing it. |
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