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Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 20:24:18 2008 http://www.ny1.com/ny1/NewsBeats/transit.jspJanuary 28, 2008 Plans to build a new transit hub in lower Manhattan are running into some major problems. The MTA says because of escalating constructions costs, the agency may be forced to rethink the entire concept. NY1 transit reporter Bobby Cuza filed the following report. It was supposed to be a grand entranceway to downtown, topped by a signature 50-foot glass dome. But now, this entire above-ground structure, known as the Fulton Street Transit Center, may have to be scrapped. "I am sad to say that we cannot build the transit center as currently envisioned, in this market, with the budget that we have," said MTA Executive Director & CEO Elliot "Lee" Sander. The problem is a construction boom that has driven costs through the roof here in New York. Recently, the MTA received just a single bid on major construction work for this project, and that bid was more than $450 million over budget. As a result, the MTA is going back to the drawing board on the project's design, though it will continue moving forward on all the underground work, which will create easier connections among the nine subway lines that converge here. "All of that work that was promised underground is going to be done, including making all the stations ADA-accessible,Ó said Mysore Nagaraja of the MTA Capital Construction Co. The MTA says it can be done at a cost that only exceeds the project's overall budget by about $30 million. But that leaves no money at all for the above-ground structure, and transit officials say they are re-evaluating all their options, possibly including private development. "We need to discuss with all the stakeholders and then we also need to look at, you know, what we can afford to build there, and then make some decisions," said Nagaraja. Fulton Street is not the only project with problems. The MTA says its major construction projects are collectively looking at a billion dollars or more in inflated costs, and may all require some trimming. Originally, the entire Fulton Street Transit Center was supposed to be complete late last year. Now, it looks like it'll be late 2010 before even just the below-ground work is complete. Ð Bobby Cuza |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 20:27:35 2008, in response to Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 20:24:18 2008. Here's a more permanent link for the article:http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=5&aid=77929 |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Mon Jan 28 20:31:16 2008, in response to Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 20:24:18 2008. And after everyone was already evicted, and their buildings demolished.... |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Jan 28 20:38:21 2008, in response to Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 20:24:18 2008. Who Didn't see this coming.. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jan 28 20:38:56 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Edwards! on Mon Jan 28 20:38:21 2008. Ron |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jan 28 20:49:25 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by G1Ravage on Mon Jan 28 20:31:16 2008. But that's OK because redeveloping that block is a good idea anyway. You move marginal businesses out and repopulate for a higher tax base.The FTC building as envisioned was going to have retail tenants. If a private developer takes over above ground you'll get a new building a new retail tenants and still derive benefit. I;m not thrilled with this development. The willing constructors have full plates and are more than happy to charge platinum prices for a new station and tell the MTA to take it or leave it. MTA is doing the right thing by saying "We'll leave it" and not committing to a bad deal. We'll see what happens. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Mon Jan 28 21:08:22 2008, in response to Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 20:24:18 2008. As much as I feel that this will end all FTC debates, this thread certainly won't go without a bang. I'm predicting right now that this will be the mother of all SubChat debates!
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 21:11:09 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jan 28 20:49:25 2008. But that's OK because redeveloping that block is a good idea anyway. You move marginal businesses out and repopulate for a higher tax base.That's true, although in a situation (not this one) where eminent domain is used solely to assist in private sector real estate development, I believe that governments should exercise far more restraint. The FTC building as envisioned was going to have retail tenants. If a private developer takes over above ground you'll get a new building a new retail tenants and still derive benefit. Yes! This is what I want in my 'hood. I;m not thrilled with this development. The willing constructors have full plates and are more than happy to charge platinum prices for a new station and tell the MTA to take it or leave it. MTA is doing the right thing by saying "We'll leave it" and not committing to a bad deal. I am thrilled with this development. I like to see the MTA act responsibly, which is not something that we always get to see. I also like that the property - one of the choicest empty lots in Manhattan - will stay on the tax rolls. It also means that the MTA just might be able to get a developer to pay for an atrium, and recoup some of the money that has been outlaid. I personally did not like the design of the "Glass Egg." Compared to Santiago Calatrava's design for the new PATH station, the Egg just didn't do it for me. If the new PATH station is Marilyn Monroe singing "Happy Birthday, Mr. President," then the Glass Egg is Ethel Merman belting out, "Anything You Can Do." |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 21:12:51 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Mon Jan 28 21:08:22 2008. I'm predicting right now that this will be the mother of all SubChat debates!You heard that when they were working under Broadway and Fulton that they found the 76th St. Station? |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jan 28 21:12:54 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Mon Jan 28 21:08:22 2008. What is there to debate? Almost everyone knows that this project was a sham from the beginning. Those that don't (like you and Ron) are so far gone that I really couldn't care. You're probably going to be so sad that this isn't getting built. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jan 28 21:15:39 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 21:11:09 2008. I am thrilled with this development. I like to see the MTA act responsibly, which is not something that we always get to see. I also like that the property - one of the choicest empty lots in Manhattan - will stay on the tax rolls. It also means that the MTA just might be able to get a developer to pay for an atrium, and recoup some of the money that has been outlaid.Can you imagine how much money might possibly have been wasted? |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by 7th Avenue Express on Mon Jan 28 21:16:10 2008, in response to Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 20:24:18 2008. just plain stupidSMFH |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Mon Jan 28 21:21:07 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jan 28 21:12:54 2008. Your perception of it is skewed. Users here looked at it from a aesthetics and feasibility view. The FTC would have been useful if built and would have looked brilliant. The MTA simply ran out of money to build it, it had nothing to do with the reasonings provided here.And yes, I'm bawling right now. 
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jan 28 21:21:38 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 21:11:09 2008. OK, cool. The underground features are going to get done, including the passageways, elevators, escalators etc. so that's fine.The Dey Street passageway should be just about done, by the way. It was listed as 85% complete 3 months ago. Since the TA has already opened to the public 2 of the FTC features (2 new entrances) I hope Dey Street will be ope for business soon too. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 21:27:20 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jan 28 21:15:39 2008. Can you imagine how much money might possibly have been wasted?It is not just the cost of building the Egg. The raw opportunity cost for the MTA is huge. The differential in the cost between the Egg and a privately developed building that exploits maximum permitted density... I don't have any figures, but it would not surprise me if it was in the hundreds of millions of dollars. As for the City, It would have been reduced space for economic activity that generates tax revenue, as a well as the loss of property taxes. To me the MTA is taking a lemon and making lemonade. "Lemonade.. that cool refreshing drink!" |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jan 28 21:30:33 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Mon Jan 28 21:21:07 2008. Your perception of it is skewed.Nope. Users here looked at it from a aesthetics and feasibility view. Maybe you did, but not the rest of us. We looked at functionality (degree of improvement) and cost effectiveness, and it failed both. The FTC would have been useful if built and would have looked brilliant. Marginally, not really, and all for a lot of wasted money. The MTA simply ran out of money to build it, it had nothing to do with the reasonings provided here. Yes it did. Had the money been used elsewhere, as many of us wanted, this may not have happened. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jan 28 21:32:15 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Mon Jan 28 21:21:07 2008. I loved the idea, and defended it here many times, but I would not give it a blank check. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Mon Jan 28 21:52:10 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jan 28 21:30:33 2008. Marginally, not really, and all for a lot of wasted money.True, the hub would have been just a lot of fancy shiny glass so the MTA can say "look what we built!" but in reality, more commuters are likely not to even use that particular exit unless it's closest to their office or destination. A smaller head-house (more like the size of the newer 72nd Street) would be more economically feasible right now and probably be their best bet at this point. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jan 28 21:56:58 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Broadway Buffer on Mon Jan 28 21:52:10 2008. more commuters are likely not to even use that particular exit unless it's closest to their office or destination.That's not what Ron said. Ron said it was important for it to stick out like a sore thumb in the neighborhood so that people wouldn't have trouble finding the entrance, even though there's no problem at all finding one today, and going to this new entrance, while passing by other entrances, will likely cause the person to walk much further than they had to, and also lead them right into a mob of people who were all unnecessarily attracted to this entrance. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Jan 28 22:26:12 2008, in response to Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 20:24:18 2008. Yay, all those 1,000 posts by RonISBS telling us a glass egg is necessary to be built as prt of FTC, and the rest of us told him it is a wasted expense.RIP, the 50 foot, block long glass egg. You won't be missed. BTW: Downtown Fulton/Broadway is still a mess, new traffic pattern on B'way now in effect until March, all vehicles on the right lane, must turn right onto Fulton. Meanwhile, most of Fulton looks like the South Bronx after the 1977 blackout. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by monorail on Mon Jan 28 22:30:35 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Jan 28 22:26:12 2008. 'Meanwhile, most of Fulton looks like the South Bronx after the 1977 blackout.'how, I've seen MANY white people around Fulton! much more than I've seen in the South Bronx following the blackout..... |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Jan 28 22:32:30 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Mon Jan 28 21:08:22 2008. Mother of all debates? The Subchat Board of Directors already voted by a large majority that this glass egg project was DOA. The money wasted on this egg can't be better spent on renovating all nine stations on the Sea Beach Line. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Mon Jan 28 22:53:48 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jan 28 21:30:33 2008. You see...we were leading to a debate right now! It was so easy, I just had to light the match and bam. But I know your right and I'm wrong, so let's just let this rest. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jan 28 22:54:56 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Mon Jan 28 22:53:48 2008. You don't seem very bright. Had you not made your post, there wouldn't have been the debate. You made a self fulfilling prophesy. |
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NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jan 28 23:41:53 2008, in response to Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 20:24:18 2008. NY TIMES January 29, 2008 Higher Costs May Curtail M.T.A. Work By WILLIAM NEUMAN Soaring construction costs could force the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to scrap plans for an architecturally ambitious glass-domed subway station in Lower Manhattan and lead to more than $1 billion in cost overruns for the authority’s major expansion projects, officials said Monday. The rising costs could slow progress on the three so-called mega-projects needed to expand the capacity of the public transportation system, including a Long Island Rail Road link to Grand Central Terminal, a westward extension of the No. 7 subway line and the first leg of the Second Avenue subway. The news represents another setback for the subway station project, known as the Fulton Street Transit Center, which was envisioned as a central element in the recovery of Lower Manhattan after the terror attack of Sept. 11, 2001. “We’re just in the middle of a construction inflation crisis,” said H. Dale Hemmerdinger, the authority’s chairman. “And from our point of view as an agency that spends an awful lot of money, this is not good news.” Elliot G. Sander, the authority’s executive director, ordered an immediate review of the budgets for the three mega-projects. The review will identify areas where costs can be cut and the projects scaled back, although he said that he hoped to keep cutbacks to areas that would not directly affect riders. A “back of the envelope” calculation, Mr. Sander said, suggested that together the three mega-projects could see “$1 billion or more in additional costs.” The combined budgets for the three projects total $12.5 billion. The problems were underscored Monday, during a round of authority board committee meetings, by the decision to drastically scale back plans for the Fulton Street Transit Center, a project to modernize and unravel a spaghetti bowl of interlinked subway stations in the vicinity of Broadway and Fulton Street. Financed partly by federal funds earmarked for the post-Sept. 11 recovery of Lower Manhattan, the transit center was to be topped by an eye-grabbing glass and steel domelike structure called an oculus, which would direct natural light into the underground. The center was also seen as the transportation authority’s answer to the even more ambitious and costly PATH terminal designed by the architect Santiago Calatrava for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, a block to the west at ground zero. (Cost estimates there have also risen, to as much as $3.4 billion from an initial budget of $2.2 billion.) Several underground portions of the Fulton Street subway project have been completed or are close to being finished, including a renovation of the platform and mezzanine serving the Nos. 2 and 3 trains. The authority planned to finish the project by letting out a contract to cover the construction of the entrance building and oculus and several remaining pieces of the underground work. But the authority received only one bid, of $870 million, far exceeding the $370 million the authority had budgeted for the contract. Mysore L. Nagaraja, the authority’s president of capital construction, said the authority rejected the bid and would now split the project into smaller pieces, in the hope of attracting more bidders and greater competition. He said the underground portions of the work could be completed by late 2009, which will make the connections between subway lines fully functional for riders. But officials said that it was unclear now what would go on top. “I’m sad to say that we cannot build the transit center as currently envisioned in this market with the budget that we have,” Mr. Sander said. As it is, even without a station building, the project will reach a total cost of about $930 million, which is nearly $30 million more than the authority has in its overall budget for the project. It is not the first time the project has run into budget trouble. The cost of acquiring real estate to make way for the project rose to $157 million from an early estimate of $50 million. The authority has already razed several buildings at Fulton and Broadway to make way for the project, and Monday’s developments raised the prospect of the site’s remaining virtually vacant above ground for an extended time, or of a much more modest entrance building. “Fulton and Broadway are the crossroads of downtown, and the transit hub as imagined was going to give Lower Manhattan something that it hasn’t had, which is a visible transportation hub,” said Elizabeth H. Berger, president of the Alliance for Downtown New York, a business group. “It’s at the center of our future, and the project has to get back on track.” Mr. Hemmerdinger said that the rise in construction costs was being felt across the country in both the public and private sectors and that it was driven by a steep increase in the cost of basic materials, including steel and concrete. Mr. Sander said that if the financial problems on the projects get worse, they could cause delays. “We don’t want to repeat the mistake that we made on Second Avenue, for example, where we completely stopped the project in the ’70s,” he said. “I think what happens if we were to have a real financial cataclysm, which I don’t think we’re facing now, what you would probably do is slow the pace of the projects down. I don’t think we’re talking about doing that in any kind of dramatic way.” |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Jan 28 23:49:07 2008, in response to NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jan 28 23:41:53 2008. “We don’t want to repeat the mistake that we made on Second Avenue, for example, where we completely stopped the project in the ’70s,” he said. “I think what happens if we were to have a real financial cataclysm, which I don’t think we’re facing now, what you would probably do is slow the pace of the projects down. I don’t think we’re talking about doing that in any kind of dramatic way.”That's exactly what they are doing right now, spending lavish money on glass eggs and a useless LIRR extension while threatening the possibility that Phase 1 of SAS will ever be completed. Those angry displaced business owners along Fulton/Broadway are going to find good lawyers tomorrow. Speaking of lawyers, we have one we can recommend, he works 2 blocks east of Broadway near William Street and posts on SC. |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Jan 29 00:03:09 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Jan 28 23:49:07 2008. I don't think the LIRR extension is at all useless; what's useless is that the lower level of the 63rd St Tunnel has sat unused for these decades. At most, it threatens to be counterproductive to the Lexington Av Line if SAS isn't enough completed to bear some of the UES ridership burden from the 4/5/6 routes. But ESA is far from useless.With regard to the Fulton St project, while I think that it was a worthy goal to have some landmark-ish building to call a station - not that it's terribly hard to find your way into the complex nowadays, with so many entrances - the costs of the project became way too extravagant for that modest objective |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Jan 29 00:21:37 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Mon Jan 28 22:53:48 2008. You see...we were leading to a debate right now!Of course we are, that's why this board exists. It would not make any sense to have it if we all agreed on a subject. That being said it is extremely egotistical of you to present your point of view as being that of "the users". There are a large number of people who are likely completely ambivilent to what a given station looks like. They'd probably appreciate a passageway which removes the transfering passengers from the A line platform more than some great glass atrium. |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Russ on Tue Jan 29 00:33:34 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Jan 29 00:03:09 2008. while I think that it was a worthy goal to have some landmark-ish building to call a stationThere can be a 50 story building on that site, and it can have a grandiose subway entrance that is visually distinct from the rest of the building. This wouldn't be a real head house, but it could serve, and look, that function. |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Jan 29 01:40:26 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Jan 28 23:49:07 2008. Instead of hiring lawyers, maybe those business owners should all get together and raise money to build the above ground portion of the station.Your objection to LIRR aside (you've been outvoted on that) Wall Street, right next to FTC, has opened its wallets to finance the multi-hundred million dollar campaigns of presidential candidates and paid chief executives like Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs salaries of $50+ million dollars. If they can do that, why can't they chip in to help rebuild downtown subway stations? Maybe they can consider that a charitable deduction against taxes. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 29 01:53:30 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jan 28 21:21:38 2008. Exactly:As long as the underground features get done, that is what matters for now. The rest can be done later if it can be done at a more reasonable cost. |
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Re: Fulton Transit Center |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 29 02:02:09 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Tue Jan 29 00:33:34 2008. Exactly:A 50-60 story tower on Fulton Street and Broadway would probably be a lot more practical, especially if it included the subway entrance as well as many of the features planned for the above-ground portion of the FTC as well. |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 29 02:04:43 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Jan 29 01:40:26 2008. Instead of hiring lawyers, maybe those business owners should all get together and raise money to build the above ground portion of the station.Your objection to LIRR aside (you've been outvoted on that) Wall Street, right next to FTC, has opened its wallets to finance the multi-hundred million dollar campaigns of presidential candidates and paid chief executives like Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs salaries of $50+ million dollars. If they can do that, why can't they chip in to help rebuild downtown subway stations? Maybe they can consider that a charitable deduction against taxes. Good points!! Perhaps asking Wall Street to help rebuild subway stations and make it a charitable tax deduction would be a good way to get things like the FTC done. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jan 29 05:40:28 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 21:11:09 2008. I personally did not like the design of the "Glass Egg." Compared to Santiago Calatrava's design for the new PATH station, the Egg just didn't do it for me. If the new PATH station is Marilyn Monroe singing "Happy Birthday, Mr. President," then the Glass Egg is Ethel Merman belting out, "Anything You Can Do."LOL! I thought The Egg was rotten myself. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jan 29 05:42:13 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 29 01:53:30 2008. yeah, the underground part is what really matters to commuters anyway. The Egg was kinda stupid anyway. |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jan 29 06:33:44 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Jan 29 00:03:09 2008. not that it's terribly hard to find your way into the complex nowadaysThat's not what Ron says! |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jan 29 06:39:09 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jan 29 02:04:43 2008. No, he made a terrible point. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jan 29 06:45:11 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jan 29 05:42:13 2008. But the underground part is not what it should be. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jan 29 07:09:45 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jan 29 06:45:11 2008. I always figured that John St would have been the most efficient street to do this anyway. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Jan 29 08:59:50 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Jan 28 22:32:30 2008. Subchat Board of DirectorsWho are they and when were they elected? I want a recount! |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Jan 29 09:08:53 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Jan 28 22:32:30 2008. The money wasted on this egg can't be better spent on renovating all nine stations on the Sea Beach Line.Huh? Those stations make the subway cars look new. your pal, Fred |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Jan 29 09:19:47 2008, in response to Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 20:24:18 2008. Gee, what a surprise, eh? Did anyone with even half a brain believe that the FTC would be built as advertised?I'm sure none of us here at SubChat were duped. The MTA can't get anything built. That's why we'll be lucky to see the Second Avenue Stubway at best. I'll even bet that the 7 extension is never built either. The bottom line now is that the MTA tore down useful buildings, evicted hundreds of small businesses and tore up chunks of Broadway, Fulton and Dey Streets to the inconvenience of hundreds of thousands of working New Yorkers and tourists for - what? A nondescript plaza and access to train lines only slightly better than it was before the MTA put a shovel into the ground. What a huge waste of taxpayers money. All the studies, EIS preparations, all the costs of property acquisition for naught. Just goes to show - never believe a word the MTA says. |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Jan 29 09:36:57 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Tue Jan 29 00:33:34 2008. Hey, if they can get some investment to build that, it's got my vote. I don't know that there's NOW going to be great anticipation of more commercial space in Lower Manhattan, but maybe there would be; someone get that schmuck Kallikow on the line! |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jan 29 09:49:21 2008, in response to Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 20:24:18 2008. Repeat after me, in the style of Ralph Kramden..."MTA, You made a big mistake! A REALLY BIG MISTAKE!!!" There was no real need for a megaproject like the Fulton Street Transit Center in the form of this boondoogle that the MTA tried to swindle the riders and general public. "The Downtown version of Grand Central", the agency's PR spin doctors were trying to sell was actually a real rip-off and sham at best. Besides, did anyone really believed that the Fulton Street Transit Center project was actually going to put any additional trackage and expanded platform space in the first place, within even that limited amount of real estate space??? No way, and a result of the *snafu and fubar* tactic the MTA engaged, there were plenty of businesses and offices that had to be shut and torn down to make room for this fiasco, thus losing property tax base revenue at that location. What the MTA should have done was simply fixed up the place, with repainting plus better passenger information and comfort amenities such as improved signage and lighting. I could see easily that the over-ambitious and over-driven MTA just may have deal with a revised project in this pie-in-the-sky Fulton Transit Center that will look more like, not as a five-course dinner with dessert, but as a doggie bag carrying unwanted leftovers. By the way, the one thing I did miss at the old Fulton Street/Broadway-Nassau Street station complex entrance, was the Chinese restaurant downstairs below at the mezzanine corridor, where I sometimes go there for lunch. I would order the General Tso's Chicken or Sesame Chicken with the side helping of Roast Pork Lo Mein Noodles with a Diet Snapple Lemon Iced Tea, and that filled up me for the rest of my day. -William A. Padron ["Bway...Nassau"] |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jan 29 11:37:13 2008, in response to NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jan 28 23:41:53 2008. The rising costs could slow progress on the three so-called mega-projects needed to expand the capacity of the public transportation system, including a Long Island Rail Road link to Grand Central Terminal, a westward extension of the No. 7 subway line and the first leg of the Second Avenue subway. I'm stunned. Really. Stunned. Remember all those posts I made about never seeing the SAS actually run? Remember how I was mocked? |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Jan 29 11:40:32 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jan 29 11:37:13 2008. Well, it's not doomsday. Yet.I still think we'll probably see the segment built to 96th St (or thereabouts!), but as for the rest, it's all quite iffy for the foreseeable future. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jan 29 11:41:41 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Jan 29 09:19:47 2008. The #7 extension should be dropped and the SAS/ESA projects continued, much as the Archer and 63rd St. proects continued even through the 70's financial woes. |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 29 11:56:21 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jan 29 11:37:13 2008. This is usually what happens to any NYC rail project...Greed takes over common good...NY POLITICS get in the way..the palm greasers don't get enough of a kickback..and the receivers want MORE..so they write the whole damn thing off with cost overruns..and they sink the whole thing due to "rising cost"... Look at he current SAS..how much money has been spent on this line BEFORE the First backhoe hit the pavement[the 1 billion dollars the MTA set aside is ALREADY SPENT..and 400 million was SPENT during DESIGN PHASE..on DESIGN ONLY..!]400 MILLION DOLLARS ON DRAWINGS AND SURVEYS...! Is THAT sick or what? |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 29 12:01:50 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jan 29 11:41:41 2008. This is the 70's all over again...Too much to get done..all at the same time..rather than taking ones time and building ONE ROUTE AT A TIME. The 7 line should have been placed on the BACK BURNER..until at least HALF of the MUCH MORE IMPORTANT SAS line was finished. Since NYC is building the 7 route on its own..does that change anything...? No..it makes it WORSE... It divides FUNDING..money that could help COMPLETE on project goes to START another..there for making less money available overall for BOTH. |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jan 29 12:08:10 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Jan 29 11:40:32 2008. I'd bet ESA gets built. |
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