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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 01:31:44 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Jul 28 00:39:49 2006. Because, It's boring, it fails to stimulate the mind, and worst of all, it shows lack of creativity.It's why most of NY's office buildings from the modern period Suck. They were all cheap copies of the Seagram Building. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 01:37:55 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 00:48:28 2006. There's no reason that old fashioned ceramic tile can't be colored. In fact, at some stations it is.Of course. That would be ideal. That said, having alternating swaths of large white and blue (or yellow or red or whatever) tiles doesn't do it for me. I'm not saying it's great. It is a little on the crappy side. But having a few stations like this on a line with mostly identical mosaics helps break the monotony. And, to my eyes, at least, white-on-black signs are a lot less interesting than mosaic name tablets. I most certainly agree with that. That's why this station sucks. Even if the name tablets on the line are all in the same style, they're hardly identical. They're close enough that they might as well be identical. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 01:47:28 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 00:54:17 2006. Aside from 8th avenue, the mosaics in manhattan are VERY similar.6th avenue Union Square 3rd Ave 1st Ave They're all the same pattern, with some variation in color. For some reason, I don't like this on the BMT (Yet, I do like the IND's basic scheme with differing colors. I'm weird.) In Brooklyn, the mosaics get interesting. That's why I referred to the 14th street line. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 01:48:25 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Jul 28 00:56:25 2006. I don't think they need to be flush with the rest of the wall. I like the protrusion. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by tydev417 on Fri Jul 28 01:48:28 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 01:37:55 2006. I'm not saying it's great. It is a little on the crappy side. But having a few stations like this on a line with mostly identical mosaics helps break the monotony.Let's say you're headed downtown towards Whitehall from 34th St, all of the stations are renovated except City Hall and Rector but....Rector with it's rectangle-tiles looks like the outdated dump of the line with those tiles compared to City Hall which still kept some it's original design along the trackside walls. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by tydev417 on Fri Jul 28 01:49:43 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 01:47:28 2006. You do understand that you're digging up photos from before the renovations and preservations even took place right? |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Jul 28 02:03:57 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by tydev417 on Fri Jul 28 01:49:43 2006. The 14th Street one was post-rehab.What difference does that make? The same mosaic tiles are still there. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway.... & Cortlandt St |
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Posted by South Ferry on Fri Jul 28 02:04:59 2006, in response to 49th Street-Broadway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 26 17:36:51 2006. 1 standout station for me has always been IRT Cortlandt St ( nee 1/9) because IIRC, Cortlandt -HAD- "gold-tone" bricks all along the platforms.... and this memoir bears strong as I've yet to see another station with the same color/composition. 49st is way cool, no less~!! |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Jul 28 02:09:44 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 01:37:55 2006. None of the stations on the broadway line have even the same design of band, let alone color(ok... many do match up with a lex station in design...) |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 02:23:45 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by tydev417 on Fri Jul 28 01:49:43 2006. Where are the mosaics in question different? |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway.... & Cortlandt St |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 02:29:53 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway.... & Cortlandt St, posted by South Ferry on Fri Jul 28 02:04:59 2006. You mean like these? |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Jul 28 07:06:40 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 01:30:02 2006. They don't have plain white tiles. They have white tiles with lots of little colored ones every few feet. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Jul 28 07:08:33 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 01:31:44 2006. But the subway system was ONE ENTITY. It was the IND. Or the BMT. Or the IRT. So it makes sense that a single company would make all of their stations similar. All of NY's office building from the modern period are not owned by the same company and do not represent one company. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Fri Jul 28 07:11:17 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Jul 28 07:08:33 2006. Just because they were all built the same doesn't mean they have to stay that way. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Jul 28 07:18:30 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Fri Jul 28 07:11:17 2006. Historical Preservation. Which and how many should stay is debatable. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 07:51:07 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by tydev417 on Thu Jul 27 22:22:47 2006. I agree so much, the renovated stations look excellent compared to the prior BMT refrigerator look."BMT refrigerator" look? You mean MTA Refrigerator look. Those cement block refrigerator tiles were put on in the late 60's or early 70's. They were the first renovations the MTA did. What you see now is a restoration of the BMT look. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 07:53:24 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 27 22:06:08 2006. When the MTA did 51st Street, I think that was the idea, except they also kept the tile band at top too. I like 51st Street, it was done when the MTA realized the mosaics shouldn't be covered, yet they should renovate ths station. Eventually, they figured out how to put regular tile over the old white tiles (like they do now), instead of having to put brick tile up. 51st Street is a precursor to how they restore/renovate now. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 08:10:37 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Jul 28 00:43:25 2006. I like IND tiles as well.Agreed, personally, I like the IND look too. I used to love the repeating names in black along the ceiling as a kid. I don't like that a lot of the recent renovations got rid of that, or made it in a different font. It's not the same. Ugh, that thing is awful! Heh, I kinda like that one!!!  |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 08:16:52 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 01:48:25 2006. I agree with you on this one. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway.... & Cortlandt St |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 08:26:12 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway.... & Cortlandt St, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 02:29:53 2006. http://images.nycsubway.org/i1/img_207.jpgI liked cortlandt too. By the way, those are the stone benches that 49th Street also had. While Cortlandt didn't get the sound proofing experiment like 49th did, it did look a little similar in design. Although I don't think they redid the floor at Cortladt. The original tiles in Cortlandt were a little more intricate than average. Instead of monograms in the ceiling band, they had mosaics of an old sail ship. All covered of course..... I think a few remained in the fare control area, like they do of the old Canal mosaics at Canal Street. At least until 9/11 of course though.... |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 08:29:48 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 01:37:55 2006. It's not a little on the crappy side. It's a lot on the crappy side. It's quite uninspired.Leave one in that style to remind us not to make the same mistake again. They are not identical -- not even close. They are in the same style. Which, on a single line, makes quite a bit of sense. With the exceptions of the Fulton Street line south of Broadway Junction, most of the Concourse local stations, York Street, and 179th Street, it's the entire IND system that has precisely identical stations walls except for the color of the band and the name of the station. If you're looking for monotony, look no further than the IND. If you want to introduce some variety somewhere, do it on the IND, not the BMT. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 08:31:05 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by tydev417 on Fri Jul 28 01:49:43 2006. Of the four stations in Manhattan that he's complaining about, only one have them has been renovated, and it didn't have its tile design changed. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 08:35:58 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 08:29:48 2006. Personally, I do sorta like the IND look, but that's all well and good for the IND. I agree, all IND stations look the same...exactly the same. You can lose a bunch of those to a nes style, and you wouldn't even miss it.However, contrary to what some are saying, the BMT/IRT mosaics are far from identical. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 08:36:31 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 01:47:28 2006. Oh, you're complaining about a whopping four stations? Big deal.I'd rather have four stations with a similar intricate design but with changing colors than an entire system with a similar, um, not-very-intricate design but with changing colors. But maybe that's just me. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 08:37:20 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 01:48:25 2006. I don't.I think it's ugly. It also eats up valuable platform space. Most of the rehabs in question were done when ridership was low or dropping. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 08:45:36 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 08:37:20 2006. Speaking of eating up platform space, I can't understand why at Canal Street (local), they didn't remove the refrigerator cement block tile in that renovation to resore the original mosaics.Canal Street had a beautiful mosaic all along it's band, and it's a real shame they didn't restore it. They actually tiled over the cement block tile, without removing it. Those little mosacis are now under two layers of renovation. A real shame. The only reason I can think of is that Canal was done before they realized they could actually rip those blocks down and resore the real stuff. Canal was the first Broadway station done. I think that if it had been some years later, these would be there today exposed again:  As for the Bridge platform for the express at Canal, of course, those mosaics couldn't be resored, as the name tablets say "Broadway" as opposed to Canal St, and the monograms are B's in the ceiling band. But that being said, they should have ripped the cement block tile down first before retiling (which they didn't, they went over the cement block tile), because as mentioned, it takes away valuable platform space, and that platform is narrow and dangerous enough!! 
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway.... & Cortlandt St |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 08:50:25 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway.... & Cortlandt St, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 08:26:12 2006. I hate those benches. They're way too deep. I don't think you're supposed to lean back in them, but people like to lean back when they sit. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 09:04:52 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 08:35:58 2006. I don't have a major problem with the IND style, although it isn't my favorite. But it can't be denied that, except for the colors and the station names, they all really are identical. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Jul 28 10:15:49 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 00:54:17 2006. Totally rad! |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Jul 28 10:16:36 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 01:31:44 2006. But as long as each serves different liquor in the ground floor restaurant, it should be OK.. :0) |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway.... & Cortlandt St |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 10:55:55 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway.... & Cortlandt St, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 08:50:25 2006. Agreed, but remember, this was 1970's mentality. They "looked" modern at the time (when everyone was used to those old fashioned trashed wooden benches - the ones that were everywhere before they put those thick wood standard 80's benches in).The 70's isn't exactly known for it's great ideas in aesthetics or comfort. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway.... & Cortlandt St |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 11:01:29 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway.... & Cortlandt St, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 10:55:55 2006. I like the old fishbowl bus seats on the Sea Beach. The current wood benches are pretty uncomfortable, IMO. And no station has enough of them.By "those old fashioned trashed wooden benches" do you mean the original black IND benches, as can still be found at Bedford Park? |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway.... & Cortlandt St |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 11:04:49 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway.... & Cortlandt St, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 11:01:29 2006. Yes, when I was a kid those old fashioned benches were everywhere (and they weren't in good shape).As for the fishbowl benches, those are the same benches that were all along the Broadway Line when they put up cement block tile (except 49th of course as mentioned). |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 28 11:17:10 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Thu Jul 27 17:52:33 2006. It got modern lighting, when it was "restored" in 1991/92. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 28 11:18:38 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Thu Jul 27 17:32:42 2006. 8th St. is a masterpiece. 23rd and Prince are cute. 28th is a tad weird, but unique. 5th Ave, done years ago, also is a masterpiece. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 28 11:19:10 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 27 14:02:58 2006. 8th St. is a masterpiece. 23rd and Prince are cute. 28th is a tad weird, but unique. 5th Ave, done years ago, also is a masterpiece. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 28 11:21:57 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by tydev417 on Thu Jul 27 22:22:47 2006. I still don't comprehend the early 70's mindset. Tear down the els. Block off quality tilework. Put a blue stripe on everything. I'm glad this era is including actual restorations with their renovations, thus assuring that 49th St and Bowling Green-like abominations aren't repeated. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 11:23:41 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 28 11:21:57 2006. And the 80's brought us that monstrosity known as 137th Street. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 11:39:25 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 11:23:41 2006. Not to mention what they did in the 80's to 23rd Street on the Lex Line....erh I mean Park Ave South Line. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 11:41:57 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 28 11:18:38 2006. I agree. I like them in the order you described and probably would describe them. 5th Ave and 8th are absolute materpieces. 23rd with the hats and Prince with the little tightwalk people are cute. 28th, I don't know what they were thinking, and it is a bit weird, but yes, it's okay, and it's definitely unique. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 11:48:39 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 00:48:28 2006. This all being said about the cement block tile on the Broadway Line and 4th Ave line in Brooklyn, do any of you remember what the signs used to look like in those colored sections?Well, each colored section had a sign, but they were not the current standard black background with white letters...they were instead in the LIRR style of white with black letters, and had a black strip on top (just liek the LIRR used to do before they switched to blue). They ad the same font as the subway signs do now, except they were white with black letters, and they were in every colored section. That was changed to every other colored section when they put the black signs up in the 80's. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 11:56:57 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Jul 28 07:06:40 2006. Not most stations. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 11:58:15 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Jul 28 07:08:33 2006. So it makes sense that a single company would make all of their stations similar.Many companies have built more than one office building. Yet, they don't all look alike. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 12:00:49 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 11:58:15 2006. Many do though. Think Commerce Banks suburban branches, Mc Donald's, Burger King, and there are countless businesses that do that. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Jul 28 12:01:23 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 11:56:57 2006. Such as? |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Jul 28 12:01:45 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 12:00:49 2006. Exactly. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 12:01:48 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 11:56:57 2006. Where are these all white tiled stations? I can only think of one and it's covered, and that was Essex St before 1989. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Jul 28 12:03:34 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 11:58:15 2006. Those companies whose multiple buildings are physically connected (or part of a complex like a business park) do. Similarly, the stations are all connected via the "system". It made sense to have many uniform features. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 12:04:30 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 08:37:20 2006. It also eats up valuable platform space.A very negligible amount of platform space. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 12:10:01 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 12:04:30 2006. Look how narrow 49th St is in this photo: And worse, how narrow the Canal St express station is, even dangerously so. It was narrow to begin with, but those cement block tiles (which are still under the third renovation of Canal St tiles) take another 8-10 inches or so off the platform: |
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