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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:03:31 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 12:49:33 2006. Complaining about the IND now? |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:05:34 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 12:04:30 2006. When the platform's crowded, every little bit of space helps. Look at 137. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 18:18:04 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:05:34 2006. Yeah, and at that station you can't easily get around those monstrosoties around the columns. At least Canal-bridge doesn't have that! |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:18:16 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jul 28 12:18:32 2006. Colors. Plural. There's a lot more variation when there are lots of little tiles in lots of colors that can shift around from station to station. On the IND, the station is blue, or red, or yellow, or green, or whatever -- and that's it. And between express stations, there's no variation whatsoever, not even in the color.81st Street maintains the IND style, with artwork added on. I like it a lot. It introduces some variety to an otherwise deathly boring line. I also happen to like Hoyt Street, although I suspect I'm in the minority. I like the color scheme. I don't mind having occasional stations in different styles. I can't imagine why anyone would want the entire 4th Avenue line in refrigerator tile style, since (a) it's ugly and (b) there's a lot less variety the stations on the line now than there is with the refrigerator tile removed. And who coined the 'refrigerator tile' name anyway? I've never seen a refrigerator covered in refrigerator tile. (Maybe the idea is that each panel of color is about the size of a refrigerator?) |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway.... & Cortlandt St |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:20:42 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway.... & Cortlandt St, posted by South Ferry on Fri Jul 28 12:25:26 2006. No, 168 has a modern-style wooden bench with a missing back. It wasn't designed that way.That said, at least one station (72/Broadway?) has several new backless benches, apparently by design. Kind of weird, but I guess it's appropriate for a narrow platform. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Jul 28 18:21:30 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:18:16 2006. At stuyvesant(and many other public schools) the interiors of the buildings will be in the same style. |
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| (289038) | |
Re: Evolution of Subway Tile Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 18:22:42 2006, in response to Re: Evolution of Subway Tile Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by randyo on Fri Jul 28 17:42:11 2006. As for the Lex line, south of GC, both sides of 33, 28, ans 23 were done in the 1930's. South of Union Square only one side was done in the 1930's, the other side was done in the 50's. That's why those stations have one side having the 1930's look, and the other side having the 1950's look (although of course at Astor and Canal, they cleaned up the 50's side to match the 30's side) in their past renovations. |
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| (289039) | |
Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 18:23:38 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 17:59:59 2006. Probably should say "MTA" style. I used the word LIRR to describe it, as that is what the LIRR (and Metro North ) have now, so people know what I am talking about. |
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Re: Evolution of Subway Tile Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Jul 28 18:24:43 2006, in response to Re: Evolution of Subway Tile Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 18:22:42 2006. Astor didnt keep either design.The extension design is entirely new. the 1930s extensions were tiled over too(they were much like bleecker) |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:28:05 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 28 13:02:31 2006. The vast majority of name tablets at 191 and 66 are new. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:29:02 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 28 12:36:28 2006. So? Look at Broad, Fulton, Essex, and 8th Avenue -- all entirely new tile jobs, but in precisely the right style. (Well, one could argue about 8th Avenue. But the others are perfect.) |
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Re: 49th Street-BMT Broadway Line |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:38:24 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-BMT Broadway Line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 15:06:14 2006. I hope you don't often give directions to tourists. You direct them to Broadway, they go to Broadway, and they end up on the 1.And if they ask somebody if they're on the Broadway line (on a northbound train), the answer will be yes. Above Times Square, the 1 is most commonly called the Broadway line, or sometimes the Broadway-7th Avenue line. It's rarely called the 7th Avenue line in isolation. A few hours ago, I got off at 2 train at 96th Street and Broadway. I did not get off the train at 96th Street and 7th Avenue. Nobody ever calls it 96th Street and 7th Avenue. If there were such a location, it would be in the middle of Central Park. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Jul 28 20:06:13 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:29:02 2006. Don't forget 103, 110 and 116 on the 1 line, all amazingly great IRT replicas. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Jul 28 22:44:37 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Jul 28 20:06:13 2006. While they did do a great job there, most of the tiling is old. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Fri Jul 28 23:32:18 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 15:52:01 2006. Why did the MTA renovate that portion of 23rd St? Was it in disrepair? |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 29 07:49:11 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:29:02 2006. What's not in the right style at 8th Ave for the rest of the Canarsie line? They even put in "simulated" beams (like are seen at Cunion Square and 6th). |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jul 29 13:08:34 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:29:02 2006. Those were less complicated than original IRT tile designs. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 29 14:34:32 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jul 29 13:08:34 2006. Yes, true, but they are more intricate than many of the "newer" BMT styles. I think Fulton, Broad, and Essex are masterpieces. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jul 29 15:15:18 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 29 14:34:32 2006. Me too. They did a great job recreating the Canal St. mosaics at Fulton & Broad, and recreating the Bowery's mosaics at Essex. Now, if they can just get started on Chambers St ... |
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23rd St - Lex Line Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 29 20:10:37 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Fri Jul 28 23:32:18 2006. I don't know actually. the renovation was done some time in the 80's. I only began using that station regulary around 1989, so don't know what condition it was in before that.However, there are some photos from the late 70's on nycsubway.org that show it wasn't "that" bad. It's a shame, because just about ALL of the original contract one elements of the station are now covered over, except from a mosaic tapestry or two, and one name tablet inside of the Newsstand on the southbound side. Otherwise, it's all gone. it's a real shame. Here's the photos from the 70's:  
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Re: 49th Street-BMT Broadway Line |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Jul 29 20:22:54 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-BMT Broadway Line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 15:06:14 2006. Check out the EXIT sign in the second photo from the top. What does it say? |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sat Jul 29 21:36:32 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jul 29 13:08:34 2006. I'd be happy with approximately that style at Bowling Green.But if you're a purist, look at Atlantic Avenue. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sat Jul 29 21:38:55 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 29 07:49:11 2006. I can't put my finger on it, but unlike the Nassau line stations, that one jumps out as a forgery. I think it may be the size of the little tiles (they're too big), or maybe the colors. |
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| (289483) | |
Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 29 22:17:44 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Sat Jul 29 21:38:55 2006. Agreed. I think it's perhaps the Essex tablets, which really don't match the style at Canal and Bowery (and Broad and Fulton repros).Technically, the Essex tablets should be within the mosaic band. That being said though, it is nicely done. |
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Re: 49th Street-BMT Broadway Line |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 29 22:19:33 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-BMT Broadway Line, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Jul 29 20:22:54 2006. Exit sign? |
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| (289487) | |
Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 29 22:20:56 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 29 22:17:44 2006. Ooops, I didn't read my post that you responded to, and thought you meant Essex. |
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| (289489) | |
Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 29 22:21:36 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 29 22:17:44 2006. And where is Cunion Square and 6th? Hahah. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sat Jul 29 22:35:23 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 29 22:20:56 2006. Not at all. I think Essex is phenomenal. There's something clunky about 8th. |
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Re: 49th Street-BMT Broadway Line |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sat Jul 29 22:36:25 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-BMT Broadway Line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 29 22:19:33 2006. Yes, the one that says 49 Street & 7 Avenue.Or look at the north terminal as displayed on any Q train. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by J trainloco on Sun Jul 30 01:55:55 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 16:01:47 2006. They certainly could have restored the single roofs over the platforms, or the LL area where the booth is to its old style. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by J trainloco on Sun Jul 30 01:56:17 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 28 16:51:39 2006. It NEVER looked like that before. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by J trainloco on Sun Jul 30 01:57:46 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 15:13:52 2006. And I'm saying that many companies DO NOT do this. Since we want the subway to be good architecture, which side should we fashion the subway after? |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by J trainloco on Sun Jul 30 01:59:07 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:03:31 2006. Yep. No stations are worse than the CPW local stations. I think even refrig tile is better than that.That doesn't include the 81st street station, of course. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 30 02:00:29 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Sun Jul 30 01:56:17 2006. False.
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 30 02:03:15 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Sun Jul 30 01:57:46 2006. The subway IS good architecture. The original IRT, IND, and BMT designs are awesome. But for new stations being built, the MTA can use modern designs. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jul 30 02:12:54 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Sun Jul 30 01:59:07 2006. 110? |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by ryogaridestheMTA on Sun Jul 30 03:40:18 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by xtimx on Thu Jul 27 12:08:58 2006. Hmm, I would've loved to see how 8th Street looked with the fake walls up. It's been my home station for about a year (NYU '09...w00t) so it's just weird imagining it any other way than it is now...Then again, it's starting to get weird when I remember that my former home station (East Tremont-West Farms) had the ugly beige walls and the A-G "East Tremont Av" signs before the mass-produced mass of crap that's there now... |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jul 30 08:11:59 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by ryogaridestheMTA on Sun Jul 30 03:40:18 2006. Hmm, unfortunately nycsubway.org doesn't have any old photos of 8th ST before the renovation....but it looked basically identical to Prince St, with a different color accent (blue? - I don't remember). Here's Prince after, and I still can't believe that a few random people think the top photo looks nicer than the renovation result stations!! Here's 8th in all it's glory:  They did a spectacular hjob at the renovations, and 8th and 5th are absolute materpieces. That those bewutiful tiles were covered is beyond me, and of course, the new added art tiles is phenominal too: |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jul 30 08:16:46 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by J trainloco on Sun Jul 30 01:57:46 2006. There's nothing wrong with the old stuff, as that is what was popular at the time the subway was built. The renovations should preserve this.However, as others mentioned too, there is absolutely NO reason the MTA should use old design in the new stations it may build, such as on the 2nd Ave subway. I would not want to see old fashioned mosaics there, and there is absolutely no reason for them to do that in the new stations, they SHOULD be of modern design....just like the old stations should keep the historic flavor. I would also not want to see the 63rd St or Archer stations revert to a old mosaic design either, they don't belong there, but again, that certainly doesn't mean that they should keep all the crap renovations from the 70-80's covering over the beauty that was finally recaptured on Broadway and other recent retro renovations. Each style has it's place. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jul 30 08:26:28 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:18:16 2006. 81st Street maintains the IND style, with artwork added on. I like it a lot. It introduces some variety to an otherwise deathly boring line.Agreed completely, that renovation is a masterpiece, preserving the old historic look, but giving it new life. And I also agree, the 8th Ave line (inluding CPW and beyond) when I say that is perhaps the most boring, humdrum, and perhaps even depressing subway line in the system. I also happen to like Hoyt Street, although I suspect I'm in the minority. I like the color scheme. Ehhh, I can take it or leave it. I don't really mind it, but it's sort of bittersweet, because it destroyed a Contract Two station. If Hoyt was a design used in let's say one of the Archer stations (if they had side platforms) or the 63rd St line, I would say it was a nice design. At least with 49th, which I truely like a lot, and would hope would never be restored, at least there, the mosaics are somewhat similar to the rest of the Broadway Line, so it's no huge loss if they stay covered, especially now that the rest of Broadway was uncovered (and before the nitpicking starts, I consider 5th to be a part of the Bway line too). However, with Hoyt, most of the Contract One and Two stations were unique, so it's a real loss. One comment though, they may as well leave Hoyt alone, and never try and rstore it, as unlike the Broadway BMT line, the historic walls were flat, so they could go right over the old walls. In the case of Hoyt, the old Contract One and Two stations had raised decoration, that probably was chizeled down when they put the new wall up, so much of the old stuff is probably destroyed, aside from flat mosaic. The same dilema would probably come up if they wanted to restore the Contract One portion of 23rd St on the Lex line. |
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| (289645) | |
Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jul 30 08:29:07 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by David of Broadway on Fri Jul 28 18:18:16 2006. And who coined the 'refrigerator tile' name anyway? I've never seen a refrigerator covered in refrigerator tile. (Maybe the idea is that each panel of color is about the size of a refrigerator?)I have NO idea where that came from. That has to be some SubTalk invention, because I have no idea what that means of comes from. If you notice, I usually used the term "cement block" tile, because I have no idea what "refrigerator tile" means or what that would be used. If anything, "school cafeteria" tile may be a better term. I'll stick to "cement block" tile, as I think it makes more sense than refrigerator tile, which to me, unless you are a SubTalker/Chatter, would have NO idea what we are referring to. |
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| (289646) | |
Re: Evolution of Subway Tile Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jul 30 08:31:26 2006, in response to Re: Evolution of Subway Tile Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by R30A on Fri Jul 28 18:24:43 2006. Yes, I know. Astor is an old renovation, and it looked great at the time they did it. (although, in newer renovations, they have gotten much better).I was thinking more along the lines of Canal. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jul 30 09:44:51 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jul 30 08:26:28 2006. Each broadway line station is unique too. It IS a loss for anything pre IND to be covered. |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Jul 30 11:07:32 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by R30A on Sun Jul 30 09:44:51 2006. TRUTH |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by ryogaridestheMTA on Sun Jul 30 19:17:11 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by R30A on Fri Jul 28 18:21:30 2006. If you have the chance to go inside C.S. 214 in West Farms (my alma mater, aka the practical cornerstone of West Farms Square!) you'll notice the main hallway is practically like the 4th Avenue BMT line with the colored block indentations amongst while tiles. I remember riding on the 4th Avenue line when I was young, and me, being the railfan at a young age, would imagine myself on a 4th Avenue line train while lined up with my class, making constant stops on the way to the bathroom, the cafeteria, the water fountain, etc. I miss those days.Now I'm craving some school-cafeteria french bread pizza or the "beef" patties... There's gotta be SOMEONE here who remembers those! |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by ryogaridestheMTA on Sun Jul 30 19:19:38 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jul 30 08:16:46 2006. I agree. I think that the MTA should have at least a FULL modern looking line, rather than a bunch of random stations (like the 63rd Street stations, or Archer). Besides, since the SAS is gonna feed into 63-Lex, why not keep the new looking pattern going? |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 30 19:22:12 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by ryogaridestheMTA on Sun Jul 30 19:17:11 2006. Mmmmmmmmmm, school-cafeteria french bread pizza! Also grilled cheese and tomato soup! |
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Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Jul 30 21:06:18 2006, in response to Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by ryogaridestheMTA on Sun Jul 30 19:17:11 2006. You can get those kinds of burgers in Meriden and Wallingford, CT. Steamed toyour pal, Fred |
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Re: Evolution of Subway Tile Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Eric B on Mon Jul 31 00:07:31 2006, in response to Evolution of Subway Tile Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 28 15:42:28 2006. The Dual Contract even went through a slight change, where it inched towards the IND style. the L line from Montrose to Bushwick Aberdeen is an example, being the last Dual Contracts BMT section built before the two extensions which then used what would become the IND style.The 30's IRT Lex platform extensions (as well as even more a short piece of wall on the IRT Columbus Circle downtown platform) look like the final missing link between Dual Contracts and IND, but as was mentioned, that was a retrospective addition from later on(or could it have been 1929-30, before the first IND style stations? I've always wondered). In addition to the 50's platform extensions, you had the entire Grand St. station, which was the same thing, but with a white background. This was the last step before the Bway-4th Ave. retiling. Imagine, if 2nd Ave. and the rest of the Second system had been built around this time, as once planned, we would have whole lines of stations like this. They probably would have continued the IND color scheme, albeit in the plain square tile frieze band. But hey; I would rather have a new Seneca Ave. station on the new Myrtle line with direct 6th/8th Ave service look like that then the service we have over here now. |
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Re: Evolution of Subway Tile Re: 49th Street-Broadway |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jul 31 12:20:20 2006, in response to Re: Evolution of Subway Tile Re: 49th Street-Broadway, posted by Eric B on Mon Jul 31 00:07:31 2006. The 1968 SAS would probably have a lot of stations looking like Archer Ave or 63rd St. Remember, these are 70's stations designed in that era. They were complete long before they actually opened. Had the 1949-planned SAS been built, it's stations would have looked a lot like Grand St and 57th/6th. I'm on record as liking 57th St, it was the most modern looking station we had before Archer Ave. opened. |
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