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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 19 03:09:37 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Nov 17 21:09:31 2023. That only lasted for a short time in the 60s. After the 1966 strike, while they kept a TA patrolman on trains between 800P and 400A, they stop isolating the rear cars of the trains. Some time in the 1980s if I recall, they tried that again and no matter at what station he train was at the closest time to 800PM, the C/R moved the passengers to the forward section and only opened the doors on the forward section. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Nov 19 09:44:14 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Sat Nov 18 13:49:01 2023. IIRC, the 2 ran 4 or 5 car consists on the overnights (my grandmother lived in a house in East New York just north of the Newlots Av station until her death in 1976. By the 70s, I lived in Crown Heights (with 3 years in Illinois 1971-1974), but I would often stay over there, and I could see the north track (track 4) from the window of my room. When they were running 4, the north motor would be in a view, was kinda weird, as I was used to seeing the middle of the consist from the window. |
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| (1627644) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 19 11:40:18 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 19 03:09:37 2023. IIRC that was an order handed down by Mayor Wagner in the 60s. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 20 02:38:36 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 19 11:40:18 2023. However, after January 1966, Wagner was no longer mayor and it seems that Lindsay didn’t want to continue the practice although TA cops were still assigned to the trains 8P - 4A. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Nov 20 03:02:50 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 20 02:38:36 2023. I would have said it lasted longer. I arrived inYC a couple weeks after the strike, but I don'have a clear memory when the cops were withdrawn from the trains and platforms. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Nov 20 07:52:05 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 14 21:10:08 2023. I was only 8 when the 1976 changes took effect. But I also remember that at least on Day 1, N service was provided by brand-new, super clean R46s.Even as a little guy, I could see that the R46s on the N were newer and cleaner than the ones on the F. But since the N only ran to Queens on weekdays, and most weekdays I was in school, I'm not sure how long R46s dominated that service- pics on nycsubway.org and elsewhere show N service provided by R16/27/30/40M/42 as well in the late 70s-early 80s. But I also remember two trips on the N with my Dad in 1979- and both were on R46s. My family moved to Staten Island in 1979, so it was years before I rode the subway very much. But I also saw R46 (or R44- I didn't know the difference) on the N in 1987, after the terminal switch. In 1986, just before I turned 18, I rode the R all the way from Whitehall to Astoria and back. I have no memory at all of what equipment was used, in either direction. |
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| (1627683) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 20 08:53:37 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Nov 20 07:52:05 2023. The R-46s were still on the N as late as 1979-80. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Nov 20 11:34:24 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 20 02:38:36 2023. My father did that in 1964 until he rolled over to Street. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Nov 20 12:55:24 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 20 08:53:37 2023. Thank you :) |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 21 04:28:02 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 20 08:53:37 2023. R-46s were on the N into the mid 1980s when the R and N north terminals were swapped. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 21 11:31:43 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 21 04:28:02 2023. I headed out west in September of 1980 and didn't make it back to NYC until 1984. I missed the subway system's darkest hour. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Nov 21 11:42:39 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 21 04:28:02 2023. Yep. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 21 14:05:03 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 14 19:35:07 2023. Sure did! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 21 14:07:30 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Nov 14 11:32:01 2023. Yeah, I realize the LEDs draw far less power...but can they hold up to the constant blinking on/off that happens on Arnines?Also, even though LEDs draw less power, subway car (and automotive) wiring is not like what's in buildings. So I wondered if that would produce any issues. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 21 14:08:19 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 15 18:49:37 2023. That is informative- thank you. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 21 20:28:11 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 21 14:05:03 2023. Especially along the Brighton line. I was on 1575, the north motor signed as a Moe on Sunday the 24th, and that train's gears got all the way up to B above middle C betwen Sheepshead Bay and Kings Highway. That's pushing 50 mph. That train was MOVING!!! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 21 20:33:26 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 16 00:14:32 2023. OK, so that's what Kev was talking about. I found out that on most R-1/9s, the bulb sockets for the upper side destination signs are secured to the carbody, but on some cars, they were mounted on a bracket that was in turn attached to the sign box. They had such a sign box at the former sign shop at Shoreline; I saw it back in 1980 when I bought my sign box there. Mine, however, doesn't have the upper side sign bulb bracket. I saw one for sale on ebay a number of years ago, but the seller was only offering local pickup - from NYC. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 21 20:37:47 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 21 14:08:19 2023. There was just enough wire slack sticking out that I was able to attach a power plug to the wire ends. I found a replacement length of two-wire zip cord with a two-prong plug and the bare ends tinned. One of these days, I'll butt splice it to the wire ends sticking out of the box.For the upper sign, I have a continuous power strip with two plug-in bulb sockets with a pair of 15-watt bulbs. They provide more than enough illumination. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Nov 21 21:06:49 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 21 20:28:11 2023. The M didn't run Sundays on the Brighton Line. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Nov 22 07:38:15 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 21 20:28:11 2023. I only rode on Friday 10/29/04, and only from somewhere in Lower Manhattan (probably Rector) to Queens Plaza, and I remember to Astoria as well- as I remember it, the train went both through the 11 St cut and to then to Astoria (with a turnback in the tunnel). I saw the BU Gate cars at Astoria Blvd., but to my eternal sorrow, did not ride them. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Wed Nov 22 07:44:37 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Nov 22 07:38:15 2023. I did,it was a good day,I was the "gateman" on the BU`S for several trips,had a ball, |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Wed Nov 22 07:44:46 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Nov 22 07:38:15 2023. I did,it was a good day,I was the "gateman" on the BU`S for several trips,had a ball, |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Nov 22 08:20:43 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 21 11:31:43 2023. The subway system's darkest hour.Was on stations where fluorescent lights were used during nights of freezing weather. The lights were very dim. Kudos for L.E.D. lights! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 22 11:19:10 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Nov 21 21:06:49 2023. I know, but 1575's front route sign displayed an M that day. This was during the Parade of Trains in 2004, btw. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 22 11:22:30 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Nov 22 07:38:15 2023. I was there, too! Rode on the old timers and BU cars. I had to keep an eye on the time; by the time I got to LGA and went through security, my flight home was boarding when I reached the gate. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 22 11:23:58 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Nov 22 08:20:43 2023. I was referring to when deferred maintenance finally caught up with the system and a third of the fleet was down for the count. |
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| (1627821) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Nov 22 13:24:46 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by zac on Mon Nov 13 19:23:11 2023. Yes!I wrote about the old BMT cars practically disappearing from the Southern District during the early to mid 60s, because of how hard the IND division cried over "those old cars falling apart on Our Rails, throwing Out system into the s**t".. They Didn't want the D Types,or Standards on the Chrystie St routes that lead to the 6th avenue subway, Broadway Brooklyn El, especially the Queens Blvd subway.(even though the Standards opened the 11th st cut). That is part of the reason why the R27,30,30a, and 32s went to the BMT South , instead of being spread around the system. However, the IND supervision was super go smacked when the Arnines started failing in mass out in Queens. The R38s were diverted from Concourse, to Jamaica,to shore up service. The R40s were sent directly to Jamaica to displace or retire the Arnines to the BMT Eastern District, and Coney Island scrap. The 1965 planned opening of Chrystie St was delayed because of rolling stock issues, not because the line wasn't ready. The work that needed to be done ( the rearranging of tracks under Canal st,) was delayed for "ridiculous reasons". At the end of the day,it was the remaining Arnines that caused the most problems for the new lines, simply due to the "deferred maintenance mantra" that had taken,Not the Old BMT cars. The Standards were Still in service, operating on the Canarsie, Myrtle Chambers, and the Broadway Brooklyn Jamaica line,at least up until 1969. The Arnines, would hang on, with the last operating in full IND service on the CC , just before the service changes,in 1976... and March of 1977 on the Eastern District lines.. the J Broadway Brooklyn Jamaica. The IND was Right, but not in the manner they were thinking. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by irtredbirdr33 on Wed Nov 22 14:35:55 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 22 11:23:58 2023. I was referring to when deferred maintenance finally caught up with the system and a third of the fleet was down for the count. Steve: That would have been Tuesday, January 13, 1981. 2117 cars, nearly one third of the fleet could not answer the call to service. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 22 16:07:26 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Wed Nov 22 13:24:46 2023. Had it not been for the extremely rapid deliveries of the R-32s, the Triplexes might have hung around a bit longer. They were pulled much too soon in any case. They were still running like tops and could have lasted at least another ten years. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 22 16:58:17 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Wed Nov 22 14:35:55 2023. Yep, that was it. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Wed Nov 22 17:48:28 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 22 16:07:26 2023. in 1964/5 the lirr was in serious talks with the T.A. about buying BMT standards & triplexes for use on their lines. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Nov 22 18:02:41 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by TUNNELRAT on Wed Nov 22 17:48:28 2023. In 1964/5 the lirr was in serious talks with the T.A. about buying BMT standards & triplexes for use on their lines.Do you recall how you came about this information? Maybe a trusted "insider"? What was the voltage being used by the LIRR back then? Now I believe it is 750 volts. Where do you suppose they would utilize the Standards and Triplexes? Maybe the Atlantic Branch or other feeder branches? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Wed Nov 22 19:46:34 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Nov 22 18:02:41 2023. an old ERA article. voltage was 650 volts, same as T.A.thats all I remember |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Nov 22 22:57:14 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Nov 22 08:20:43 2023. Nah.The "darkest hour" was that cold December morning, when nearly half of the subway fleet was unable to make service, and the TA had to use a supplement schedule.. The subzero temperature didn't help either, just made getting the cars charged up harder. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Nov 23 06:34:29 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Wed Nov 22 22:57:14 2023. Happy Thanksgiving!Oh no not her again. 
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Nov 23 14:41:53 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 22 11:22:30 2023. Hopefully I'll See you good guys on a future trip! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Nov 23 14:45:31 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Wed Nov 22 13:24:46 2023. Interesting times- they were buildings new lines but neglecting what they already had. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Nov 24 11:30:51 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Nov 23 14:41:53 2023. Hopefully I'll make it back someday. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by irtredbirdr33 on Fri Nov 24 12:45:36 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Nov 23 14:41:53 2023. Maybe we should try planning one. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Nov 24 20:21:00 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Nov 23 14:45:31 2023. You CAN say that..The TA went IN to bring the Lexington Avenue, and 7th Avenue Subways that were part of the Contract One route system up to date to suit the times.. However,they wanted to rebuild the 59th st complex into an Express station, rebuild the 96th st Junction, rebuild Rogers st Junction and others. They prepared for Chrystie St, but Only worked on the Southern District lines, not the Eastern District routes, which were an intricate part of the Second Avenue Subway plans. There was even a plan to connect the Jamaica El to the Rockaway Branch, which would have worked out much better than the connection to the Queens Blvd route. The TA was, starving for cash,in some ways,due to Robert Moses power grabs, sending "Representatives" to DC to gobble up all available dollars that Should have went to the Subways and railroads. The One Good thing he did For the Subway, was rebuild the Rockaway line in the Rockaways to an elevated structure capable of operating BMT/IND equipment...as intended. However,he himself blocked numerous subway projects, even delayed Chrystie St, to put in place a piece of the LOMEX tunnel system. Even today, nobody has honestly seen the tunnels there, except some city workers, since the plans from the Expressway were killed off. Because he couldn't get his highway built, he did his damnedest to make sure most of the easier TA projects were cancelled... The Easy project,was construction of the Water St Subway,the Worth st subway to Williamsburg... some of the South 4th st route. The man was so damn petty,that he built huge enormous housing complexes right on top of the South 4th Street ROW...in order to prevent the line from being built. He made sure to build his bridges without access for rapid transit,as seen from the George Washington Bridge and the Narrows bridge. He made sure his highways were built without a space for rail service,as see on the Van Wyck, and LIE..which were corridors selected For SUBWAY surface lines within the median. The Original Grand Blvd Subway was planned for Horence Harding Blvd, with the road built around it. Moses put a complete stop to that. The Original SAS subway was a combination of Subway AND ROAD construction. The roots started from the foot of the Manhattan Bridge..which is why there was a massive "slum clearing"project,that eventually became Sara Roosevelt Park. The Subway And Road system was supposed to be located UNDER the park, with the subway being 6 tracks wide, with a 6 lane highway on top. Moses couldn't get his road approval, so the Subway was also held up. No Burke Ave Subway exists directly tied to a Moses temper tantrum over not being able to use the now Dyre Ave line as a "trucking highway". It wasn't so much as the TA not being able to get things done..they Did manage to build a few connections, but nothing on the scale of the IND system, even up to this day. It's like the will to build has dried up. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Nov 24 22:47:46 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Fri Nov 24 20:21:00 2023. Good and interesting post! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Nov 25 02:04:43 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Nov 24 22:47:46 2023. Thank you. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Nov 25 04:32:48 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Fri Nov 24 20:21:00 2023. The housing complexes built in the path of the S 4th St route were merely replacements for the older buildings that were already there. Had the impetus to build S 4th St been there, the city would have had to demolish the buildings and through route S 4th St the way it did 6th Ave between 3rd St and Canal St in Manhattan and Pitkin Ave with Old South Rd at the Bkln/Qns border. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Nov 25 07:30:07 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by randyo on Sat Nov 25 04:32:48 2023. That's exactly what I meant.Beaver St would have been cut through from Lorimer St to Flushing Ave, while a new Street would cut across from Bushwick to Broadway across Broadway to Stuyastant Ave... The new row, world have had a major station at Bushwick Ave and Myrtle Ave for the Myrtle Ave/Central line, with transfer to the Utica Ave line, which already split off at Beaver and the New Stuyastant Ave extension. The same way that the Utica Ave subway would have transitioned from cross block from Fulton Street. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Nov 25 10:20:27 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Fri Nov 24 20:21:00 2023. I actually did know about the piece of the LOMEX tunnel that got built...I bet very few people do, though. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Nov 25 11:17:47 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Nov 25 10:20:27 2023. it is a 60x60x60x60 tunnelUNDERNEATh THE GRAND ST,STATION that was filled in.as I read it ,you can`t get into it. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Nov 25 12:56:47 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Fri Nov 24 20:21:00 2023. I see what you mean. Some projects got done, but other very good ideas were stopped by post-WW2 politics... |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Nov 26 06:39:13 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Nov 25 11:17:47 2023. And to throw mud in the face of the TA, the new 'deep level' station the MTA wants to build Under Grand St will occupy the same space the LOMEX tunnel are located,abit offsides to the East.What does that mean? They found it to be cheaper to use the old never used tunnels,than build two track ways on either side of the street, and use the SAS tunnels already built at the foot of the Manny B? |
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