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| (1260242) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Hart Bus on Sun Nov 24 16:08:25 2013, in response to MTA Uniforms, posted by BusRider on Sun Nov 24 13:46:10 2013. ot sure. I know the conversion from the drab green uniforms of the NYCTA to the blue of the MTA commenced in the summer of 1967. |
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| (1260255) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Nov 24 17:55:24 2013, in response to MTA Uniforms, posted by BusRider on Sun Nov 24 13:46:10 2013. Train Operators started wearing uniforms in the early '80's. |
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| (1260257) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by BusRider on Sun Nov 24 18:37:19 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Nov 24 17:55:24 2013. Thank you. |
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| (1260258) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 24 18:37:39 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Nov 24 17:55:24 2013. Do they cover your expenses for roadbed filth cleaning on them?That was one of the nice things about wearing jeans and shirt back in my time - had to launder it yourself, but it wasn't expensive like a monkey suit to do so. |
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| (1260263) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Randyo on Sun Nov 24 19:30:55 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Hart Bus on Sun Nov 24 16:08:25 2013. The only drab green uniforms that the TA had were for bus operators. Subway personnel always wore blue in some form or other. The switch from green to blue for bus operators began in late 1966 when the TWU contract required the TA to issue all required uniforms. |
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| (1260264) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by bklynsubwaybob on Sun Nov 24 19:33:42 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 24 18:37:39 2013. When I became a M/I the asshole running the BMT Division wanted his Supervisors to wear "Sunday go to meeting" clothes even though I was expected to get under trains with the RCI during train troubles. I was also reported by an unknown individual that I wasn't wearing a tie when responding to a breakdown at Vernon-Jackson on a Sunday afternoon. At least when I was hourly I could write off cleaning expenses on my taxes. |
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| (1260265) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 24 19:46:26 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by bklynsubwaybob on Sun Nov 24 19:33:42 2013. Nice. :(I'm always amused by folks that think the job is a walk in the park, doubly so for the pinheads in charge of the mess. Back in my time at least, a good number of managers actually had to retrieve electric portions before they got to wear a tie to work. :( |
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| (1260266) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Randyo on Sun Nov 24 19:58:05 2013, in response to MTA Uniforms, posted by BusRider on Sun Nov 24 13:46:10 2013. Prior to 1966, the TA required employees to purchase their uniforms at employee expense. Bus operators wore a sort of arm olive drab uniform. C/Rs wore dark blue with either a matching dress jacket or Eisenhower jacket and a cap virtually identical to a police officer's cap. M/M were required to wear pinstripe or hickory stripe overalls with a matching jumper and either a RR style matching cap or a black silk cap which was slightly similar to the US Navy uniform cap. C/Rs and M/M were also required to have the appropriate badge attached to the cap although in practice, BMT M/M usually declined to wear the badge and that part of the uniform requirement wasn't enforced. The original badges for both the M/M and C/Rs were simple oblong aluminum with the title on the top line, the number on the second line and the division in small letters at the very bottom although many of the IND badges lacked the division designation and when I started in 1966 the badges had no division designation at all. Also the badge numbers which were 5 digits were coded by division with the IND numbers beginning with the number 1, BMT beginning with the number 3 and IRT beginning with the number 6. By the time I started, however, the coding began to disappear and although I was a BMT C/R, my badge number began with a number 1 and my 1968 M/M's badge began with a number 7. The C/R badges that the TA issued in late 1966, were a lot more attractive and substantial and their numbers began with a number 8. Also, the new caps were a sort of stovepipe design similar to the mainline RR C/R's caps. A problem came in when C/Rs operating from cabs instead of between cars started losing their caps as the pulled their heads inside the cars after closing the doors or having caps fall off wile sticking their heads out the window. The TA then modified the rules so thatC/Rs in train service were no longer required to wear their caps when opening and closing doors although they were required to have their caps with them at all times. What sort of system the MTA uses, I really don't know and AFAIK even though theT/Os have uniforms, I don't believe they are issued badges.The pinstripe pattern which was a finer stripe than the hickory stripe was the preferred uniform although the broader and more familiar RR style hickory stripe was allowed. Although hickory stripe overalls and jumpers are still readily available, I haven't seen any pinstripe overalls available in years. In any event, when the TA began to supply uniforms in 1966, for some reason, no arrangements were initially made for any sort of uniform for the M/M until some time in the 1980s probably with the Kiley/Gunn administration. The first M/M uniforms issued were the traditional pinstripe but at some point were changed to the current dark blue with pinstripe shirts although I'm not sure exactly when that change took place. |
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| (1260269) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by bklynsubwaybob on Sun Nov 24 20:07:11 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 24 19:46:26 2013. The guy I was referring to was Joe Rusotti. He was Supt. of M/Is in the Southern Division at Stillwell Ave. back in the mid-eighties. On a number of occasions I stood up for my rights and was rewarded by being hounded by him and his henchman Harry Robles. I may not have been liked by the hierarchy but I did my job and I did it well. |
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| (1260270) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 24 20:11:15 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by bklynsubwaybob on Sun Nov 24 20:07:11 2013. Don't get me started on STL and the mooks down there. :)Can't say I recognize either name, but I was out of there by summer of '71 so I can only guess that they did the proper bootlicking to get to their positions like most of the others down there in my time. That was my report location for most of the time I was there, and the pettiness and stupidity never failed to impress me. I was SO glad to be out of there. :( |
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| (1260274) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Randyo on Sun Nov 24 20:26:47 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by bklynsubwaybob on Sun Nov 24 20:07:11 2013. The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. Joe Rusotti Jr was no better. I had heard that he got into trouble for harassing a subordinate possibly to the point of a lawsuit. Harry Robles was another stuffed shirt who shouldn't have gotten where he did. |
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| (1260294) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Nov 25 01:03:31 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Nov 24 17:55:24 2013. yup:
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| (1260295) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by The Orion Kid on Mon Nov 25 02:06:51 2013, in response to MTA Uniforms, posted by BusRider on Sun Nov 24 13:46:10 2013. IINM possession of those uniforms (in New York State) is illegal if you don't work for the TA (particularly the vests since they are used as on street parking permits by TA staff on official business), considered impersonation of MTA personnel. Or maybe that's just if you use them to impersonate TA staff like McCollum, but I remember hearing you can't own an MTA uniform legally in NY even if you don't wear them or use them to pass yourself up as working for the TA. Not like they'll catch anyone who responsibly owns/collects one, just throwing that warning out there. |
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| (1260296) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by chud1 on Mon Nov 25 05:07:22 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Randyo on Sun Nov 24 19:58:05 2013. Excellent info.chud1. :).... |
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| (1260299) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Nov 25 07:42:55 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by renee gil on Mon Nov 25 01:03:31 2013. If that's a Train operator, then that is not early 80s. T/Os did not get conductor's pants until early 90s which by then that 8464 would have been either inducted into the CAP program or retired. T/Os wore striped pants or overalls until they got conductors slacks. Likely that is the conductor of whoever the real T/O was, likely Zabel based on the end sign |
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| (1260313) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Nov 25 10:45:33 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Hart Bus on Sun Nov 24 16:08:25 2013. In days of old, motormen were not required to wear a uniform. Only the conductors and other "people people". (one eyed, one horned flying purple people eater).Today the hat policy requires a blue had with an MTA logo or badge on it. They tried to @#$% with Harrington, and now all religious headgear is permitted as long as is blue with patch or badge. Certain hats may be provided by MTA but that is the extent of it. ROAR |
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| (1260314) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Nov 25 10:50:21 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by The Orion Kid on Mon Nov 25 02:06:51 2013. So you found that out, eh? |
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| (1260316) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Mon Nov 25 11:06:43 2013, in response to MTA Uniforms, posted by BusRider on Sun Nov 24 13:46:10 2013. Way, way back in the day, I recall IND conductors wearing what appeared to be surplus navy pea coats, and a peaked cap. |
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| (1260329) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Nov 25 12:35:48 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by renee gil on Mon Nov 25 01:03:31 2013. Aside from the uniform, the destination sign looks like "Franlkin" was taped right under the #7. Makes me think that the roll was lifted from IRT equiptment & was surgically altered to conceal "Flushing" or "Worlds Fair" to run on the route. |
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| (1260334) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Nov 25 13:54:29 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by renee gil on Mon Nov 25 01:03:31 2013. That's a C/R uniform. When T/Os got the dark blue pants, they got white shirts with black stripes. |
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| (1260335) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Nov 25 13:56:23 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Nov 25 10:45:33 2013. Prior to 1966, M/M WERE required to wear a uniform consisting of pinstripe or hickory striped overalls with a matching jumper (jacket). See my post on the subject. |
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| (1260336) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Nov 25 14:01:04 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by The Orion Kid on Mon Nov 25 02:06:51 2013. Use of the safety vests as parking permits is not official and a car with one in the window can still be ticketed if illegally parked. AFAIK, the only thing that would make a clothing item specifically an MTA uniform is the presence of an official MTA patch on the item otherwise just a plain light blue shirt and dark blue trousers does not a uniform make. |
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| (1260337) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Nov 25 14:02:10 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Nov 25 11:06:43 2013. I neglected to mention in my post that Navy pea coats were considered an acceptable part of a C/R's winter uniform. |
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| (1260343) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 25 14:29:15 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Nov 25 12:35:48 2013. Definitely a Zabel job. :) |
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| (1260344) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 25 14:31:01 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Randyo on Mon Nov 25 14:02:10 2013. Yep ... those coats were a lifesaver on arnines. :) |
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| (1260346) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Hart Bus on Mon Nov 25 14:44:56 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Randyo on Sun Nov 24 19:30:55 2013. You could be correct on the start date. In the spring 1967 semester of my senior year at Stuyvesant HS, I got a job as a gopher for a small uniform manufacturer on 17th Street between 5th and 6th Avenues for the (then) minimum wage of $1.50 an hour.This employer made fireman, police, doorman and the drab green bus driver uniforms. The MTA awarded the uniform contract to Montgomery Ward, who in turn sub-contracted to many of the little shops like the one I worked for. One stipulation was that if the shop contracted with MW they were banned for making any other uniform. My boss always complained how he didn't get a piece of the pie. I, as a 17 y/o) couldn't convince him that he was getting the overflow from those shops that had signed witg MW |
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| (1260358) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Q4 on Mon Nov 25 16:31:08 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Randyo on Sun Nov 24 19:58:05 2013. When I was kid I use to go with my father to this shop on Lexington and 124th where he use to buy his overalls for work. He always brought blue denim or pinstripe overalls. He wore overalls for work until he retired in the mid 80's, prior to the M/M uniform requirement. |
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| (1260363) | |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Nov 25 16:58:41 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Hart Bus on Mon Nov 25 14:44:56 2013. I went to someplace around there to get measured for my first C/R uniform. |
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| (1260365) | |
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Posted by Hart Bus on Mon Nov 25 17:22:50 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Randyo on Mon Nov 25 16:58:41 2013. There were a host of small shops like the one I worked for. No thousand pound gorilla in the bunch in 1967.I worked for I.Buss Uniform Company at 12(?) west 17th street. Don't remember the floor, but remember the passenger elevator was slower than the freight elevator. A pain when carrying heavy packages. Once or twice the freight elevator operator, when standing in front of the building with nothing to do would give me a ride in the freight elevator to relieve me of my burden. According to an internet search the company is now run by the fourth generation and is located at 121 E. 24th Street. |
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| (1260376) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Nov 25 18:33:07 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Nov 25 07:42:55 2013. but that picture was taken in the early 80s - 7/11/1982. |
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| (1260377) | |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Nov 25 18:34:12 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Randyo on Mon Nov 25 13:54:29 2013. i stand corrected then. |
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| (1260378) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Nov 25 18:36:00 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 25 14:29:15 2013. steve zabel did a number of those on the franklin avenue shuttle in the early 80's. |
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| (1260388) | |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Nov 25 21:12:08 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by renee gil on Mon Nov 25 18:36:00 2013. Forgive my ignorance, but who is Steve Zabel?? |
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| (1260390) | |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 25 21:18:25 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by renee gil on Mon Nov 25 18:33:07 2013. That's a conductor uniform, no question. |
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| (1260391) | |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 25 21:19:12 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by renee gil on Mon Nov 25 18:36:00 2013. Yep ... I've always admired his whacky photos, pity what happened to him. |
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| (1260392) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Nov 25 21:29:36 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 25 21:18:25 2013. yes, i know, randyo told me already. |
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| (1260394) | |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 25 21:40:18 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by renee gil on Mon Nov 25 21:29:36 2013. Got to you before I saw his reply ... no prob, not keeping score on this end anyway. Quelle domage. :) |
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| (1260402) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Nov 25 22:38:12 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Randyo on Mon Nov 25 13:54:29 2013. Not immediately. When we got the orders to go to Northern Blvd around 1990 or 1991, we only got pants. We continued to wear the same conductor's shirts we were issued with the coveralls and striped pants. When they outsourced the uniforms, we then got white shirts with stripes. |
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| (1260462) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Tue Nov 26 14:10:22 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Nov 25 21:12:08 2013. This page, while also a review of the book "Making All Stops", seems to summarize who Steve Zabel was pretty well.Other prolific photographers whose names you will often see are Joe Testagrose and Douglas Grotjahn. You'll see some of their photos here (and to my surprise, one of mine that I took in Singapore almost 20 years ago was in there, too!) --Mark |
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| (1260472) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Nov 26 14:53:34 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by renee gil on Mon Nov 25 01:03:31 2013. Man that R-30 looks like shit!!!! :-DThem old school "M" uniforms look sharp.....funny those look better than the "genius" idea of some who brought us MNR guys white shirts for uniform shirts!! |
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| (1260473) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Nov 26 14:55:50 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 24 18:37:39 2013. Nope, not covered good buddy!!! You best get some OxyClean and strive to become a neat freak!!! TRUST ME, with MNR having us wear white uniform shirts, OxyClean is a lifesaver, because keeping those clean is clearly more easier said than done!!! However you can claim uniform maintenance expenses on your tax returns. |
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| (1260474) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Nov 26 14:56:44 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Nov 24 17:55:24 2013. You sure not the late 80s???? I know you were there at the time, but I swore I seen a few pics from the mid to late 80s showing motormen wearing regular street clothes!! |
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| (1260475) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Nov 26 15:00:14 2013, in response to MTA Uniforms, posted by BusRider on Sun Nov 24 13:46:10 2013. First off, that is a winter knit cap, NOT a beanie hat!! And that is more for the train operators, bus operators, and the car cleaners to wear, as those are the only employees I have observed wearing them in my TA days. A conductor would get written up for wearing that cap and wearing the MTA baseball cap at ANY time, as the uniform caps the conductors are supposed to wear are the traditional conductor cap or for the winter the navy blue trooper cap. |
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| (1260476) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Nov 26 15:03:20 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Randyo on Sun Nov 24 19:58:05 2013. I think the motormen didn't get uniforms until the late 80s, as I have seen a number of photos of motormen running trains in the mid to late 80s still wearing street clothes.Now, the TA covers your uniforms at no charge to the employee except in the event of getting uniform garments outside of the times of your normal allotment, to which then you can get charged the costs for uniforms, unless the uniform policies have changed in the almost 10 years since I been gone from the TA. |
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| (1260477) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Nov 26 15:04:41 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Nov 25 14:29:15 2013. What about the street paint job???? :-D |
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| (1260478) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Nov 26 15:11:28 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Nov 26 14:55:50 2013. Since so many folks file 1040A's and EZ's, they probably never recover that expense. Ah well ... it was all good back in the jeans and blue shirts days for me. No tie either. :) |
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| (1260479) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Nov 26 15:13:03 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Nov 26 15:04:41 2013. Makes that Ronan graffiti look a WHOLE lot better. :) |
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| (1260485) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Nov 26 15:48:13 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Nov 26 15:13:03 2013. I am surprised that there is no shot of the R-30 used in Beat Street where the character Ramo painted "Hip Hop Don't Stop" on the side!! Now that was one tight paint job, for vandal scummage!! Was definitely a nice piece!! :-) |
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| (1260486) | |
Re: MTA Uniforms |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Nov 26 15:48:57 2013, in response to Re: MTA Uniforms, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Nov 26 15:11:28 2013. I have had no trouble getting my expenses paid back. Guess it is all in how and where you file and who files for you. |
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