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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 7 09:51:58 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 7 09:51:21 2008. "describe"....sorry, that was a typo. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Mar 7 09:57:10 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 7 09:51:21 2008. Well, I mean, personally, I'm inclined, on looking up at the stars, to think the $5 fare is a bit high. But that hardly means that the PA is ROBBING people by charging them $5.I happen to also think that the NYCT fare hikes were implemented in a way so as to be politically advantageous - or at least, less damaging - to the present state government, but I don't think that they're ROBBING me now that I'll have to pay more for a monthly metrocard later this month. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Mar 7 10:23:38 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Mar 7 09:57:10 2008. Well, I mean, personally, I'm inclined, on looking up at the stars, to think the $5 fare is a bit high. But that hardly means that the PA is ROBBING people by charging them $5.No, it isn't ROBBING, it's discouraging transit use by making AirTrain free for drivers but $5 for subway riders. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 7 10:47:49 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Mar 7 10:23:38 2008. No, it isn't ROBBING, it's discouraging transit use by making AirTrain free for drivers but $5 for subway riders.It doesn't appear to be working that well then if that is what they are trying to do, discourage transit. Is $5 a little high? Perhaps, but I see every reason why it's $5 to balance out with Jamaica. And $5 is certainly not enough to discourage people from using the convenient connection, especially considering alternatives (even driving and parking is way more than that, with the cost of gas and parking fees), and it's certainly cheaper by A LOT than private airport shuttle or car services too. it's only competition is the buses like the Q10, and that is not very attractive, and even if it was, it's still transit. And the availavle stats figures seem to back that up pretty nicely that it is hardly a hinderance. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sat Mar 8 22:38:40 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 7 09:39:55 2008. Howard Beach access is not only at a slightly higher level than it was before AirTrain HB, it's higher after losing part of it's base to Jamaica.No it isn't, it's lower. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 23:01:33 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sat Mar 8 22:38:40 2008. As mentioned, Jamaica immediately probably cannabilized some of HB's passengers once it became a second option, whereas HB used to be the ONLY subway option. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 23:18:49 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sat Mar 8 22:38:40 2008. It's not lower. Your own stats graph shows it's passenger counts are higher now than pre AirTrain. Yes, "percentage-wise" it's lower, but that's because the "pie" got bigger. Jamaica added a whole new alternative, making the "pie" bigger, that means of course, percentage wise HB will be lower no matter what, as a whole new access point opened up gobbling up percentage of airport access mode. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Mar 8 23:52:54 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 8 23:01:33 2008. It was the closest option, not the only option. Other buses took you to other subways, but I have no doubt the A train represented the vast majority of subway trips. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 00:01:33 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sat Mar 8 22:38:40 2008. There's a flaw in your graph.In November 2003, the last complete month of the shuttle bus, Howard Beach is at 116,566 passengers: Nov 2003:  In December 2003, when Airtrain opened, it must have opened mid month, and you only used the Howard Beach stats from half a month. Unfortunately, the month was broken up, and once AirTrain began, they COMBINED the Airtrain for Howard Beach and Jamaica, and for Dec 2003 had just the bus HB people too, so we don't know how many people boarded at Howard Beach on AirTrain after AirTrain opened. the figure you used was 59,356 for your graph, but part of the 82, 293 AirTrain figures also include Howard Beach. We don't know how many though, but either way the graph is too low: Dec 2003, AirTrain opens:  Then we have Jan 2003, and they also combined Howard Beach and jamaica ridership on Airtrain, as well as Feb 2004: Jan 2004: 147,145 Jamaica/Howard Beach combined:  Then, finally in february 2004, they finally broke it up to AIrTrain HB, and AirTrain Jamaica, and already by March Howard Beach was only about 20,000 short of it's pre airtrain levels....and that of course is considering the loss of many of it's passengers to Jamaica: Feb 2004: 77,907 Howard Beach  March 2004: 91,547 Howard Beach  Then let's cut over to one year after AirTrain, Dec 2004: Dec 2004: 116,347 Howard Beach  Finally, we come to the last available stats, three years after airtrain in Nov 2006: Nov 2006: 120,430 Howard Beach, and 226,769 Jamaica:  In those three years, flights increased by about 10,000, so yes, that of course has more people arriving. However, Howard Beach carried 120,430 passengers on it's airtrain, and Jamaica a whopping 226,769 passengers. REMEMBER, that before Jamaica, Howard beach was the ONLY choice using the subway. So a good portion of Jamaica's passengers would be using Howard Beach, as before had jamaica not existed, it must always be remembered that pre-Airtrain, subway people had no choice but to use Howard Beach and the A Train. Now they also can use the E Train (and J to a lesser extent) and jamaica, also skewing the stats away from Howard Beach....and Howard Beach is STILL higher. Percentage-wise it can also be looked at, but remember that it automatically will be lower for Howard Beach as Jamaica increases the options and the size of the pie, so that automatically will take percentage of arriving/departing passengers away from Howard Beach, as it's a new option not there before, yet now grabbing passengers. That's pretty impressive. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 00:17:29 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 00:01:33 2008. And finally, it should be noted the comparison between parked cars and AirTrain.Parked Cars: Nov 2003 (last month before AirtTrain): 376,031 Howard Beach: (No airtrain yet): 116,556 Then....Nov 3006, three years later after AirTrain: Parked Cars: Nov 2006 (cars parked dropped): 309,293 Howard Beach AirTrain: 120,430 Jamaica AirTrain: 226,769 Flights increased by about 10,000 Hmmmnmmmm, not only have flights increased.....parked cars went DOWN by about 76,000 in those three years! Airtrain Howard Beach went UP by about 4000, and Jamaica, which didn't even exist three years earlier is now 226,769. Hmmmmmmm, it looks like AirTrain is VERY successful in handling those extra 10,000 flights....as even though 10,000 more flights, 76,000 less cars parked at the airport, and 230,000 MORE passengers came in via AirTrain..... |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Mar 9 00:19:06 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 00:17:29 2008. Indeed... |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 03:37:30 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 00:17:29 2008. the $5 ped toll is a hindrance to more people using mass transit |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 09:09:47 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 03:37:30 2008. I appreciate your opinion, however the stats show otherwise. in the time Airtrain has been there, even though flights have increased, parked has gone down quite significiantly, and AirTrain is carrying more people than ever were using transit prior are now using Airtrain. Not only is AirTrain carrying more than double Howard Beach's former stats when the bus was there, Howard Beach itself is carrying more than it was before AirTrain. That's very impressive, and even more than I expected....especially considering that howard airport parked cars went down by almost 20% since AirTrain came into be, and even though more flights are leaving/arriving!That stats don't support your opionion that it's cost is a hinderance, as it's been highly embraced, and used. |
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Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 09:11:02 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 09:09:47 2008. "Not only is AirTrain carrying more than double Howard Beach's former stats when the bus was there, Howard Beach itself is carrying more than it was before AirTrain. "Not only is AirTrain JAMAICA carrying more than double Howard Beach's former stats when the bus was there, Howard Beach itself is carrying more than it was before AirTrain. |
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Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 09:42:26 2008, in response to Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 09:11:02 2008. jamaica airtrain is irrelevant |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 09:42:52 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 09:09:47 2008. the stats do not show otherwise. many more people would ride HB airtrain if it was free. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 9 09:58:24 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 00:17:29 2008. Again, there's a flaw in your logic. The number of AirTrain users relative to airline passengers (not flights, since we can't tell the difference between an empty plane and a full one) before AirTrain was consistently betwee 3.5% and 6.5% per month. Since AirTrain opened, it has had trouble breaking 4%. Annually, the percent of airline passengers using Howard Beach hasn't been so low since 1990, when The Train to the Plane was a premium fare:1990 3.23% 1991 5.46% 1992 4.19% 1993 4.63% 1994 4.32% 1995 4.07% 1996 4.15% 1997 5.54% 1998 5.04& 1999 4.20% 2000 No Data 2001 No Data 2002 3.68% 2003 3.76% 2004 3.34% 2005 3.35% |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 10:08:26 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 09:09:47 2008. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED AND HATE AIRTRAIN! |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 10:08:44 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 9 09:58:24 2008. Thank you for that great analysis. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 10:09:48 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 10:08:26 2008. No one said anything about that. Try again. |
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Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 11:01:02 2008, in response to Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 09:42:26 2008. It's not irrelevant in the least. Immediately, once there was a second subway option available, Jamaica cannabilized some of Howard Beach's ridership. In spite of that, it STILL performs at least as well, and better than it once did. Jamaica took away ridership from Howard Beach, so YES, it is very relevant on both percentage counts, and actual counts in looking at the big picture.There is NO mistaking that almost 20% less cars have parked at the airport, even though flights increased. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 11:03:29 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 09:42:52 2008. Opinion. The stats show many more people are using AirTrain and less are using parking. Howard Beach's fee does not appear to be a hinderance on all the claims here by the airport bashers that scream the "it encourages people to drive to the airport". The stats show the complete opposite, as parked cars went down significantly, even with a ride in flights.How are they getting to the airport then, by helicopter? |
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Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 11:05:37 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 11:03:29 2008. "The stats show the complete opposite, as parked cars went down significantly, even with a ride in flights."even with a RISE (not ride) in flights |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 11:13:06 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 9 09:58:24 2008. Again, there's a flaw in your logic. The number of AirTrain users relative to airline passengers (not flights, since we can't tell the difference between an empty plane and a full one) before AirTrain was consistently betwee 3.5% and 6.5% per month. Since AirTrain opened, it has had trouble breaking 4%. Annually, the percent of airline passengers using Howard Beach hasn't been so low since 1990, when The Train to the Plane was a premium fare:Your statistics are wrong. Jamaica TOOK AWAY a portion of Howard Beach's ridership. In addition, and more importantly, It also makes the "pie" bigger by taking a percentage of people out of the "total pie". OF COURSE that will show a decrease. If you have only 4 slices. Each "slice" takes up 25% of "the pie" (even for arguments sake). If you make it 5 slices, automatically everything already decreases to 20% of the pie. Jamaica did that already just by being added. And then it also took away some of the pie in addition. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Mar 9 11:13:44 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 11:03:29 2008. Some rich folks do take the helicopter, but of course this is not AirTrain's market. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 11:17:46 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 10:08:44 2008. I alread explained why it is flawed. the PIE rose, so right away there is less percentage for EVERY mode. (see 4 slices out of pie vs 5 slices out of pie comparison).And then there is NO MISTAKING the fact that the amount of cars parked decreased significantly, almost 20%, yet AirTrain Howard Beach is taking the same or better amount of passengers, and that's even with Jamaica taking a big portion of the riders in addition to Howard Beach. Howard Beach LOST passengers to Jamaica, even without taking anything else into consideration. So Jamaica is VERY relevant. |
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Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 11:18:26 2008, in response to Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 11:01:02 2008. nope, read RIPTA's post. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 11:18:58 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 11:03:29 2008. nope, read RIPTA's post. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 11:21:06 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 11:17:46 2008. If there was no highway robbery style $5 ped toll, the numbers at HB would be much higher. It is a huge hindrance to promoting mass transit.But that's really besides the fact. The main point is that there is inequity at HB that you haven't been able to justify. |
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Re: Bad data; Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Mar 9 11:32:46 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 9 09:58:24 2008. The number of passengers has climbed enough so that AirTraiun's absolute usage has climbed with it. Even if AirTrain's % of arriving airline passengers remains below 4%, its impact on car traffic to the airport has been very tangible. Who picked 4% as a meaningful threshold? You?We should speak hypothetically, by the way, because your numbers are wrong. You cite 3.68% in 2002; AirTrain did not begin operating until 2003. Given that, I wouldn't trust any of your numbers. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 11:56:18 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 11:21:06 2008. If there was no highway robbery style $5 ped toll, the numbers at HB would be much higher.That's opinion. But even if true, anything would have more ridership if "it was free". It would also cause an upheaval in the way passengers are dispensed vs Jamaica, which can better handle the traffic. Again, IMMEDIATELY, when Jamaica became a viable alternative, it cannabilized some of Howard Beaches rides just by being available as an alternative. Howard Beach has held it's own, even though Jamaica (increased the choices, thus made every mode lose percentage as another slice was added (a major slice besides). What RIPTAHope fails to see with his percentage chart and graph for Howard Beach is that with Jamaica taking 226,769 passengers into the airport, that is a MAJOR percentage that didn't exist before, so of COURSE Howard Beach's percentage will be lower than it once was before Jamaica was there. You can't look at the percentages without considering the fact that Jamaica added a major slice of pie to the mix. People that say "Jamaica is irrelevant" are completely wrong, it MAJORLY skews the percentages, and passenger counts. And even through all that, Howard Beach STILL holds as many passengers as it once did, and PARKING went WAY down. These figures don't lie. AirTrain is not nearly the "flop" you had tried to make it out to be in the beginning of this thread. NOW more than ever, thanks to Charles giving us real numbers to look a, instead of all the speculation that was rabid here, shows even a stronger case than ever against the AirTrain bashers. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 12:00:06 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 11:18:58 2008. Read my response to RIPTAHope's post. He is not considering the extra slice of pie. |
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Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 12:09:02 2008, in response to Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 11:18:26 2008. Read my response to it. For arguments sake all things equal:4 slices of pie = 25% each add a slice to make 5 slices of pie, automatically, all down to 20% without any other changes. Now also consider that that extra slice is bigger than some of the other ones (as all things are of course not equal)....that makes the percentage of all the others even smaller when you take away equality. Percentages aren't a clear picture of this. That's what I am trying to explain. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 12:11:30 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 11:56:18 2008. there would be no upheaval |
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Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 12:13:21 2008, in response to Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 12:09:02 2008. promoting transit usage was airtrain's goal. airtrain HB is not achieving that goal anywhere near as well as it could because of the immoral, disgusting, filthy, $5 highway robbery. |
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Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 12:18:40 2008, in response to Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 12:13:21 2008. Parking down by almost 20% at the airport since before AirTrain began. |
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Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 12:20:18 2008, in response to Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 12:13:21 2008. airtrain HB is not achieving that goal anywhere near as well as it could because of the immoral, disgusting, filthy, $5 highway robbery.Thanks for expressing your opinion. How does that saying about everyone having opinions like everything having something else too go, again? |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 12:24:31 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 12:11:30 2008. "These figures don't lie. AirTrain is not nearly the "flop" you had tried to make it out to be in the beginning of this thread. NOW more than ever, thanks to Charles giving us real numbers to look a, instead of all the speculation that was rabid here, shows even a stronger case than ever against the AirTrain bashers." |
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Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 12:32:29 2008, in response to Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 12:20:18 2008. it's not an opinion. more people would ride. that's a fact. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 12:33:02 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 12:24:31 2008. it is a flop in that it isn't attracting the numbers it could have if there was no inequity and highway robbery involved. |
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Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 12:38:10 2008, in response to Re: Typo Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 12:32:29 2008. it's not an opinion.Maybe this explains part of the difficulty in that the very good points made by those you debate against are tossed aside by you: you need a refresher course in what's opinion and what's not. You had said, just now: airtrain HB is not achieving that goal anywhere near as well as it could because of the immoral, disgusting, filthy, $5 highway robbery. How is Airtrain -- immoral? disgusting? filthy? highway robbery? |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 12:39:07 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 12:33:02 2008. Where does this 'highway robbery' occur?Over the Van Wyck Expressway? |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 12:43:22 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 12:39:07 2008. haha! |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by JohnL on Sun Mar 9 13:36:04 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 12:39:07 2008. Actually: yes!The people being robbed are the taxpayers of New York, who pay for what is essentially the road to the airport. And the AirTrain users, who are paying for their mode of transport, when the cost of maintaining the airport roads is built into the passenger facility charge portion of a plane ticket. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Mar 9 15:32:58 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by JohnL on Sun Mar 9 13:36:04 2008. Agreed. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 22:04:10 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by JohnL on Sun Mar 9 13:36:04 2008. Thank you John. I wish people in this thread could take it a bit more seriously. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 22:35:25 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 22:04:10 2008. I've taken it very serious. AirTrain is very successful based on the stats. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 22:40:06 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 22:35:25 2008. To quote LBJ, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. :) |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Mar 9 23:05:50 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Mar 9 22:40:06 2008. I thought that was Benjamin Disraeli? |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 9 23:27:06 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 9 22:35:25 2008. You've taken it a little bit more seriously than trainsarefun, and I appreciate that. |
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