|
|
| Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question (567079) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 21 of 29 |
||
|
| (580830) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 22:53:36 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 21:59:52 2008. Not true.You need to read that Airtrain map more closely..... |
|
|
| (580831) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 22:53:47 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 22:51:22 2008. Those people are only walking from the subway station to the stationb to ride AirTrain. They are not walking there to have a tailgating party in the parking lot. |
|
|
| (580832) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 22:56:48 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 22:24:54 2008. I hope they'll learn the lesson well for LGA Airtrain. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (580834) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 23:02:07 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 22:53:47 2008. Exactly. So I'm wondering what, of any interest, follows from calling it a pedestrian toll. |
|
|
| (580853) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Tue Mar 4 23:24:07 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 22:25:43 2008. No one. The last time I heard, only people who wanted to ride had to. |
|
|
| (580857) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Tue Mar 4 23:31:00 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Train Dude on Tue Mar 4 23:24:07 2008. The whole issue is stupid.If anyone had a real problem with the PA due to the AIRTRAIN FARES,they should have spoken up..and continue to do so..but NOT HERE.. The PA doesn't CARE..they will continue to charge what they seem is prudent..and 5 bucks is what thats gonna be. Now they should shut up..before they raise THAT FARE like they did everywhere else. |
|
|
| (580861) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Tue Mar 4 23:35:00 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Edwards! on Tue Mar 4 23:31:00 2008. Exactly. And it's not even a legitimate issue. This is just another example of a debate over someone's rigidity over semantics. |
|
|
| (580865) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 23:42:52 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Train Dude on Tue Mar 4 23:24:07 2008. Exactly. So no high-tech muggings involved. Contrary to the loaded word choice of FORCING people to pay. Obviously no one is forced to pay unless they want the service. |
|
|
| (580868) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Tue Mar 4 23:48:51 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 23:42:52 2008. I prefer the idea that they are "required" to pay rather than "forced" to pay. Clearly, they do have choices though this is just another of "those" interminable threads over semantics that certain sub-chatters seem to enjoy so much. |
|
|
| (580882) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Mar 5 00:07:59 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Train Dude on Tue Mar 4 23:48:51 2008. In one respect, I think the debate about method is the important one. semantics is, well, semantics. But at least one poster in this topic seems to view it as self-evident that his value judgments are correct per se, and that the PA has malevolent intentions toward its ridership.My main disagreement is with any such purely subjective navel-gazing method of coming up with value judgments that just must be obvious to anyone who also gazes down at his or her navel. |
|
|
| (580884) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Wed Mar 5 00:12:45 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Mar 5 00:07:59 2008. "But at least one poster in this topic seems to view it as self-evident that his value judgments are correct per se, and that the PA has malevolent intentions toward its ridership."Obviously and the intransigence does not lead to meaningful or productive discourse. |
|
|
| (580903) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Mar 5 00:35:32 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by J trainloco on Tue Mar 4 22:11:45 2008. Having now taken a class on Transportation and architecture, I've seen a whole different viewpoint of the whole AIRtrain project. People who are either architects or planners (or studying to become one) generally find AIRtrain to be a poor solution to airport accessI've always found AirTrain to be clunky because it's an automated light rail (based on the BBD ART technology in use in Toronto, Vancouver, and Kuala Lumpur) system functioning as a people mover. It's forced to be a light rail system due to the need for a high speed solution to Jamaica Station. An interesting solution would have been for a subway extension along the Van Wyck with stops where necessary to connect with a people mover on the airport property near the current Federal Circle station on AirTrain. The downside is that this solution would have taken far longer to construct due to the need to connect the line with the rest of the subway system*, and the inability to use the airport's passenger finance charge to pay for this segment of the project. I question if NYCTA would have the money to pay for the extension, and if the PANYNJ would be willing to pay for the project out of pocket for NYCTA. Also, the current AirTrain solution sells itself as a quick "one-seat" ride from the LIRR at Jamaica station turns into a slow pokey two seat ride with maximum speeds approaching NYCTA's typical operating practices which is much lower than AirTrain's 60mph. *Who wants to rip up an extension that was barely 10 years old in 1998? |
|
|
| (580906) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Mar 5 00:37:44 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by J trainloco on Tue Mar 4 22:11:45 2008. I took a class in facilities design. It was semester on ow to look at what the architect is doing, and see what they're doing wrong that will cause you problems in the future.:) |
|
|
| (580908) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by J trainloco on Wed Mar 5 00:43:36 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Wed Mar 5 00:37:44 2008. lol. As my boss told me: "You'd be surprised how many architects don't know how buildings stand up." Architecture biz is pretty much divided in half: Those who design, and those who know how buildings work.But any good architect will go to a guy like a facility manager and ask him what he needs while they are designing. Of course, many architects are too arrogant to do this. |
|
|
| (580966) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:00:06 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 22:53:36 2008. Yes, it is true. Only the Jamaica branch is not part of the free circulator. Ask Charles G or AlM to explain it to you if you won't listen to me. |
|
|
| (580967) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:00:52 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 22:04:14 2008. it's not bull. nothing i said is bull. |
|
|
| (580968) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:02:11 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 22:06:08 2008. There is a difference that you fail to see. The $2 bus was third party. The third party has no interest in providing a free shuttle. However the free bus and airtrain are run by the PA, the operators of the airport. They have a duty to provide a free service, as is done everywhere else in the country. |
|
|
| (580969) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:02:52 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 22:07:14 2008. no. back then you knew what you were getting into, i'd imagine. |
|
|
| (580971) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:05:07 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 22:24:54 2008. Chris, he just said what I have been saying. |
|
|
| (580972) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:06:25 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by J trainloco on Tue Mar 4 22:11:45 2008. Thank you! My thoughts exactly! And for good reason :)The $5 fee for a free on-property circulator is ABSURD. |
|
|
| (580973) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:07:29 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 22:11:54 2008. No it's not.No I'm not. Why don't you believe me? When have I lied here? |
|
|
| (580974) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:08:02 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 22:16:44 2008. wow, you really misunderstand |
|
|
| (580975) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:09:47 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 22:16:47 2008. It's completely relevent. You can't disregard the ONLY bus that was operated for A train passengers for the whole run of the JFK Express, which was probably about 13 years. THAT was the ONLY bus, and completely relevent, regardless of who operated it. It was the only way for the subway riders to get to the terminals from that NYCT HB station.irrelevant It also makes the bus's run through the airport much more efficient and faster, which helps the entire bus route. It's redundant to have the bus circulate the airport to the same terminals that the AirTrain does also efficiently. nope. take some transportation planning course, Chris. |
|
|
| (580976) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:10:32 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 22:18:55 2008. they are walking from the platform to the parking lot. that's it. the circulator is free. |
|
|
| (580977) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:12:27 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 22:21:01 2008. they agree with a large part of my argument. they agree that it is a ped toll. everything else falls into place.no, they want a free way to get to the terminals. like at EVERY OTHER AIRPORT. What part of that do you not understand? Why do you WANT to pay for a service that is free everywhere else? I don't get that? Wouldn't you rather it be free, like it should be? Are you rich, that you can throw money away for a service that should be free, like it is EVERYWHERE else? |
|
|
| (580978) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:13:08 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 22:22:44 2008. yes, a week ago is when i didn't read the posts! I've been responding to the $2 post for the last few days. add it up Chris. |
|
|
| (580979) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:13:45 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 22:24:23 2008. yes one does. if you don't, you waste a lot of time back tracking. |
|
|
| (580980) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:15:14 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Mar 5 00:07:59 2008. wow, it's not a value judgment. look at every other airport in the country. can you do that? try real hard. |
|
|
| (580981) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:15:47 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 22:25:43 2008. people who arrive at HB and don't want to waste time back tracking to find another method to get to the airport. |
|
|
| (580982) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:16:29 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 22:27:50 2008. it only costs money to enter airport property. once on the property, you can ride airtrain for free just like EVERYONE ELSE. Again, this is the reality, not the intent. You don't seem to get that. |
|
|
| (580983) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:17:35 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 22:51:22 2008. people from NYCT at HB are paying a pedestrian toll. have charles G or AlM explain it to you. |
|
|
| (580984) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 5 06:19:00 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 22:53:47 2008. Can you walk anywhere other than to the AirTrain once you pay the money?your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (580988) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:31:32 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 5 06:19:00 2008. Thank you Fred. |
|
|
| (580989) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:34:05 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 22:53:47 2008. what other transit line, airport related or not, any where in the world, charges a fare but allows parkers to ride for free? |
|
|
| (580991) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 5 07:07:12 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:31:32 2008. Sure, but that was a serious question. Can you walk across the parking lot if you wanted to via that portal?your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (580993) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 07:13:37 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 5 07:07:12 2008. Yes. |
|
|
| (580998) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 5 07:27:29 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 5 07:07:12 2008. That's the point though, where else would someone go? As I said, they are walking in there to use AirTrain. They are not walking into the parking ot to have a tailgating party. The whole reason to walk in there is to use the AirTrain, the parking lot is not a tourist attraction. |
|
|
| (581000) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 5 07:29:34 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:34:05 2008. It doesn't matter. It's the way this one was set up and designed. There is no other way to be able to collect the fare for the people riding airtrain. "no where else" do would they charge you to get to the terminals after parking either, so of course the airtrain fee is waived for the people that just parked, as well as their passengers. |
|
|
| (581001) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 5 07:32:02 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:31:32 2008. Thank Fred for what? If anything it proved my point further. Why aelse would someone walk into the parking lot except because they had to use AirTrain. People who didn't park there have no other reason to access the parking lot there in that location. They are not walking from the HB station to the terminals. |
|
|
| (581002) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 5 07:33:10 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:17:35 2008. Have them also further explain that it doesn't matter and is not the big deal you make it out to be. |
|
|
| (581003) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 5 07:34:02 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 07:13:37 2008. You guys could compromise then and just call it "airport admission" because you have a choice; it's not always a fare because you can walk and it's not always a pedestrian toll because once u ride you cease being a pedestrian. But you do always have to pay to pass that gate so it's admission all of the time.As for the right or wrong of charging $5 or whatever amount you've decided, you'll never resolve that as the right answer is somewhere between skinflint and drunken sailor. I realize that this isn't the SubChat way so here's a napkin and some Band-AidsŪ :D your pal, Fred PS This does beg questions like what if I forgot my umbrella and used my Metrocard to gain admission to the Subway say at 8th Av and walked underground through a passage and then exited? Fare or Ped Toll? |
|
|
| (581004) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 5 07:36:49 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:13:08 2008. Only after yesterday when I directly asked why none of the $2 posts were were responded to, after a week since the first one was mentioned. Yes, it's very possible to miss some posts, but those were the ONLY posts that weren't responded to until yesterday, while other posts not containing the $2 bus were responded to, posts right next to the $2 bus posts for the last week. |
|
|
| (581006) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 5 07:38:00 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:12:27 2008. everything else falls into place.In your mind and line of thinking, yes; in reality, no. |
|
|
| (581007) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 5 07:40:19 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:12:27 2008. Wouldn't you rather it be freei>Of course, and I would rather the subway be free and gas be $1.29 a gallon too, but that's not something that is realistic. You must pay for many things you would "rather be free", doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. It's irrelevant what other airports or transit lines do. Each situation is different, and conditions are different. |
|
|
| (581008) | |
Burlesque Routine "NIAGARA FALLS" (WAS: Air Train...) |
|
|
Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Wed Mar 5 07:40:21 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 5 07:33:10 2008. heh. I pity the poor person at a social function that goes up to him and brings up Air-Train. It must be some kind of reaction like the "Niagara Falls.....slowly I turn...." guy from the old Burlesque routine. |
|
|
| (581009) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 5 07:40:30 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:12:27 2008. Wouldn't you rather it be freeOf course, and I would rather the subway be free and gas be $1.29 a gallon too, but that's not something that is realistic. You must pay for many things you would "rather be free", doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. It's irrelevant what other airports or transit lines do. Each situation is different, and conditions are different. |
|
|
| (581011) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 5 07:41:17 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 5 07:27:29 2008. I think I have a semantic solutionyour pal, Fred |
|
|
| (581012) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 5 07:41:48 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:10:32 2008. They are walking from the station to AirTrain, the train that will take them to their terminal. Without that train, there is no way to get to the terminals, just like the bus people used to have to pay $2 there for after taking the subway. |
|
|
| (581013) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 5 07:43:50 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:09:47 2008. It's completely relevent. You can't disregard the ONLY bus [the $2 bus] that was operated for A train passengers for the whole run of the JFK Express, which was probably about 13 years. THAT was the ONLY bus, and completely relevent, regardless of who operated it. It was the only way for the subway riders to get to the terminals from that NYCT HB station.irrelevant It's only irrelevant becayse that $2 bus doesn't fit your argument. So just forget it existed as "irrelevant". |
|
|
| (581014) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 5 07:46:02 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 5 06:07:29 2008. I am not saying you lied. I am saying that without hard evidence, we don't know for fact that any significant amount of people feel this way. There is no factual information here. Without hard stats that we can look at, you can't make that claim any more than I can make that claim from standing there for a day not seeing anyone complain. |
|
|
|
Page 21 of 29 |
||
