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| Re: Air Train question (567079) | |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Mar 3 14:28:33 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 3 14:20:18 2008. Answer the question in the context.In the context that YOU want a free ride on Airtrain? OK, that's easy. You read this page, which lists several alternatives. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 3 14:31:40 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 3 14:12:37 2008. Instead of a "slip system" they have instead used a fence to avoid fare beating. A lot neater and easier to impliment than requiring all the parking lot people to need a fare.That was supposed to be "need a SLIP" in my senence above. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Mar 3 14:32:43 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 3 14:19:09 2008. And one or more of those buses take you to the Lefferts stop of the AirTrain. Therefor the people from the A at H B are being charged a $5 fare (in your words) just to ride from HB to Lefferts, where other NYCT transferees board for free.OK, then the PA should charge them the $5 access fee too? |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 3 14:43:17 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 3 14:27:55 2008. it can't be a paid branch if the fee is waived for some people!recedent is irrelevant, and except for a 10 year reprieve when there was no premium services at Howard Beach, access to use various shuttles/transport from Howard Beach was provided for a fee how was the mta bus to the terminals premium over the PA free buses? And it was MTA! Not PA! So there is no comparison! Once AirTrain was provided, for the parking lot people to have access to the train too, but those coming from the Howard Beach station had to pay the fare (just like before the 1990). Instead of a "slip system" they have instead used a fence to avoid fare beating. A lot neater and easier to impliment than requiring all the parking lot people to need a fare. Not it not like before 1990. Then the MTA provided the service. A 3rd party. They can charge for it all they want. Now it is the PA charging people to access the airport where said access was previously free and where no other airport charges for it anywhere in the country. Right, So a ped fee should not be charged at HB. but you asked how people can ride "for free" from Howard beach. And you still have told me what this free parallel service is, like the (A) was the free parallel service to TTTTP. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 3 14:43:34 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 3 14:27:55 2008. it can't be a paid branch if the fee is waived for some people!recedent is irrelevant, and except for a 10 year reprieve when there was no premium services at Howard Beach, access to use various shuttles/transport from Howard Beach was provided for a fee how was the mta bus to the terminals premium over the PA free buses? And it was MTA! Not PA! So there is no comparison! Once AirTrain was provided, for the parking lot people to have access to the train too, but those coming from the Howard Beach station had to pay the fare (just like before the 1990). Instead of a "slip system" they have instead used a fence to avoid fare beating. A lot neater and easier to impliment than requiring all the parking lot people to need a fare. Not it not like before 1990. Then the MTA provided the service. A 3rd party. They can charge for it all they want. Now it is the PA charging people to access the airport where said access was previously free and where no other airport charges for it anywhere in the country. Right, So a ped fee should not be charged at HB. but you asked how people can ride "for free" from Howard beach. And you still have NOT told me what this free parallel service is, like the (A) was the free parallel service to TTTTP. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 3 14:43:46 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 3 14:19:09 2008. Yes there is. People boarding at the HB station from anywhere but the subway do so for free.Correct. Parking lot people, and some people that come in via "Kiss and ride". The fee is waived for parking lot people, but kiss and ride people luck out. Since there is no PEDESTRIAN TOLL to enter the airport, some people can enter through the Lefferts gate. No, the fence was closed so that they could charge the fee. No instead of the "slip system" the MTA used as a way to avoid fare evasion for the shuttle bus they used to operate, the PA however decided not to0 require slips from the parking lot people, so they closed the fence to avoid people trying to evade the airtrain fare. And one or more of those buses take you to the Lefferts stop of the AirTrain. Therefor the people from the A at H B are being charged a $5 fare (in your words) just to ride from HB to Lefferts, where other NYCT transferees board for free. No, they are charged a fee to use the airtrain from Howard Beach subway station, which is much more convenient than taking the Q10. Smart people that value their time will use that option. However, some people who may not want to use the $5 AirTrain are free to use the other A train for access to Lefferts with a free transfer. If they do that, more power too them. Most people are coming from somewhere before the A train splits, so most people have achoice of which A train they use (or if they want to use the E train when still in manhattan). Many choices out there. Something for everyone. All NYCT people who chose to use AirTrain, whether it be through the A or the E, pay for A train. Those who chose the less convenient Q10 don't have to pay that. No. The (A) parallel TTTTP all the way to HB. I want to know what free service parallels AirTrain from the HB subway station to the Lefferts airtrain station. There is none. You have to take a non-parallel service to make that trip for free. There isn't. But there doesn't need to be since most people are NOT walking to Howard Beach. Almost all of them are coming in from the A train. Most of the A train riders have a choice of weather to use the Lefferts A, the Far Rockaway-Howard Beach A, or the E. For those that choose the A, they can chose whether they want to take the more convenient route via Howard Beach and AirTrain, or the cheaper less convenient route via Lefferts A. It's a choice anyone can make. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 3 14:44:08 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Mar 3 14:28:33 2008. No, that's not in the context. The context was the (A) vs TTTTP. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 3 14:44:52 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Mar 3 14:32:43 2008. Maybe you and Chris think that, but I think they should instead drop the $5 ped toll at HB. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 3 14:49:05 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 3 14:43:46 2008. The fee is waived for parking lot people,Why? but kiss and ride people luck out. Why? Since there is no PEDESTRIAN TOLL to enter the airport, Yes there is - it applies to NYCT (A) transferees only. No instead of the "slip system" the MTA used as a way to avoid fare evasion for the shuttle bus they used to operate, the PA however decided not to0 require slips from the parking lot people, so they closed the fence to avoid people trying to evade the airtrain fare. No, what the MTA did has nothing to do with what the PA is doing. The MTA was a third party providing a service. The PA is the airport operator charging to access airport property (or to ride on airport property, according to you). No, they are charged a fee to use the airtrain from Howard Beach subway station, which is much more convenient than taking the Q10. Smart people that value their time will use that option. However, some people who may not want to use the $5 AirTrain are free to use the other A train for access to Lefferts with a free transfer. If they do that, more power too them. Most people are coming from somewhere before the A train splits, so most people have achoice of which A train they use (or if they want to use the E train when still in manhattan). Many choices out there. Something for everyone. All NYCT people who chose to use AirTrain, whether it be through the A or the E, pay for A train. Those who chose the less convenient Q10 don't have to pay that. No, the PA is (according to you) charging NYCT transferees for riding airtrain from HB to Lefferts, since if you transfer from NYCT at Lefferts, you can ride AirTrain for free. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 3 14:53:52 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 3 14:43:17 2008. Parking lot people are using the service (just like all the other parking lots) after paying for parking. It's a different price structure. They can't charge the parking lot people for that if they don't charge all the other parking lot people for it. Kiss and ride and Q10 people luck out. Good for them. Perhaps they should begin issuing slips for people who parked issued for for all the people in the car, and put fair control in at Lefferts, but that would be more trouble than it is worth. Then Q10 people would also have to pay if they didn't get those slips. how was the mta bus to the terminals premium over the PA free buses? And it was MTA! Not PA! So there is no comparison! People were charged a $2 if they didn't ride the PREMIUM MTA JFK Express to get to Howard Beach. When the MTA dropped the JFK Express, their shuttle was also dropped. The PA decided to pick up the slack and bus the MTA's customers to the terminals. How could they charge for that when they weren't providing any kind of premium service? Today, there is a premium service (a very convenient and seamless one, much more so than the buses it replaced) there that is airtrain. Cheaper options still exist, and everyone has the right to chose what fits their particular situation. So a ped fee should not be charged at HB. And it isn't. They do charge a fee for AirTrain however. Fare control access makes it necessary to put up a fence. People can walk into the airport (yeah the thousands that must walk to the airport) can access the airport from Lefferts if they so chose. Or they can take a bus. Most had that choice before arriving at Howard Beach station. And you still have told me what this free parallel service is, like the (A) was the free parallel service to TTTTP. Addressed in one of these recent posts. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 3 15:01:26 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 3 14:49:05 2008. Why? [parking lot]Because they paid for parking just like any other lot in the airport. Why? [kiss and ride and Q10] I don't see how they can stop it. Perhaps that is something they should look at. But I can only see if they issued a parking pass for people who parked, which would allow access for anyone in the car. Then Q10 and Kiss and ride would have to pay. I don't know if their revenue loss from the Q10 or the Kiss and ride people is so great that going through that expense would outweigh the few that luck out. I would think instituting that sort of a system would cost more than the revenues they would collect from it. Perhaps it should be looked into though. Yes there is - it applies to NYCT (A) transferees only. No, only some A people that chose to go that way. A NYCT people have a choice to also go to Lefferts on a train that runs alternately with the Howard Beach trains. No, what the MTA did has nothing to do with what the PA is doing. The MTA was a third party providing a service. The PA is the airport operator charging to access airport property (or to ride on airport property, according to you). The PA doesn't have to provide service for NYCT's passengers. They provided the bus as a coutesy when the MTA decided to drop those people. The MTA also owns or owned a ROW into the Airport. They chose to not use that asset and instead the PA had to build the access. They call that the Howard Beach Airtrain, and they rightfully charge for it's use. There is no reason they have to provide a parrallel bus next to the Airtrain. That would be redundant, ,especially since cheaper alternatives are out there for those same A passengers via Lefferts. No, the PA is (according to you) charging NYCT transferees for riding airtrain from HB to Lefferts, since if you transfer from NYCT at Lefferts, you can ride AirTrain for free. Right, see second point above. That was addressed. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 4 02:57:33 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 3 13:38:19 2008. Was there really a free entrance to the parking lot?A Howard Beach resident couldn't simply enter the parking lot -- they had to pay a NYCTA fare first. Nobody went through for "free". Then they built airtrain and they sealed up the free entrance to the parking lot. That's wrong. It was open. They have no right to seal it up just so they can charge a ped toll to get onto the free circulator. This is where you go astray, comrade. It's their Airtrain. It's their parking lot. They have every right to seal an entrance and charge a fee for whatever they choose to charge a fee for. You are free to not like it. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Mar 4 03:36:22 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 3 10:20:34 2008. There was a conductor on board. I thought it was $1 extra but I may be wrong. Does anybody remember how much the premium was? I took that thing only once from Queensbridge and it was regular fare by then. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 06:28:45 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 4 02:57:33 2008. Was there really a free entrance to the parking lot?A Howard Beach resident couldn't simply enter the parking lot -- they had to pay a NYCTA fare first. Nobody went through for "free". I was talking about from the subway station. They have every right to seal an entrance and charge a fee for whatever they choose to charge a fee for. That doesn't make it right! They are a semi-governmental agency. They are supposed to be acting in the best interests of the public. Pulling sh*t like this is certainly NOT in the best interests of the public. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 06:45:15 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 3 15:01:26 2008. Because they paid for parking just like any other lot in the airport.But in every other airport in the country, you don't need to pay the airport to ride the circulator if you transfer from adjacent rapid transit! So you can't use that as your reason for the parking lot people! I don't see how they can stop it. Perhaps that is something they should look at. But I can only see if they issued a parking pass for people who parked, which would allow access for anyone in the car. Then Q10 and Kiss and ride would have to pay. I don't know if their revenue loss from the Q10 or the Kiss and ride people is so great that going through that expense would outweigh the few that luck out. I would think instituting that sort of a system would cost more than the revenues they would collect from it. Perhaps it should be looked into though. Or they could stop charging people coming from the A. I don't understand why you are against that. No, only some A people that chose to go that way. A NYCT people have a choice to also go to Lefferts on a train that runs alternately with the Howard Beach trains. No, they don't have a choice. They have to have secret inside info. Any old shlub on the (A) hears "A to JFK" a million times. He is told over and over to make sure he is on a Far Rockaway train stopping at Howard Beach in order to get airtrain. He is not told each time that there is a free alternative. In fact, he's not ever told that AirTrain costs money. The PA doesn't have to provide service for NYCT's passengers. It's in their best interest to get as many people to their airport as they can. And look, there is a subway line RIGHT ON THE BORDER OF THE PROPERTY. Of course they are going to serve it!!!!!!! They'd be nuts not to! They provided the bus as a coutesy when the MTA decided to drop those people. No, they did it probably because the MTA dropped it train to the plane bus shuttle and the PA recognized that they needed to continue serving the A station. The MTA also owns or owned a ROW into the Airport. They chose to not use that asset and instead the PA had to build the access. What ROW "into" the airport?????? They call that the Howard Beach Airtrain, and they rightfully charge for it's use. No, they do not rightfully charge for it. They are stealing money from people. There is NO reason to be charging money for it. There is no reason they have to provide a parrallel bus next to the Airtrain. If they want to replace a FREE service with one costing $5, then yes, they better dam well offer a parallel free alternative. That would be redundant, ,especially since cheaper alternatives are out there for those same A passengers via Lefferts. No, it would be propert. The people riding the A, trying to get to JFK, have no clue about the Q10. Every announcement and sign says to take a Far Rockaway (A) train to Howard Beach for AirTrain. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 06:54:12 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 3 14:53:52 2008. Parking lot people are using the service (just like all the other parking lots) after paying for parking. It's a different price structure.No, parking lot people are not being charged for airtrain. 1. the parking charge is per car, not per person. You could pay for one car and have 8 people ride airtrain for free. 2. the parking charge is per 8 hours, not per airtrain ride. 3. you can ride airtrain 2 times or 100 times and pay the same parking rate. 4. The price for parking the first day is the same as each additional day. There is no extra charge built in for aitrain. They can't charge the parking lot people for that if they don't charge all the other parking lot people for it. By that line of thinking, they can't charge A train riders if they aren't charging everyone! People were charged a $2 if they didn't ride the PREMIUM MTA JFK Express to get to Howard Beach. When the MTA dropped the JFK Express, their shuttle was also dropped. So? The PA decided to pick up the slack and bus the MTA's customers to the terminals. How could they charge for that when they weren't providing any kind of premium service? Like I asked, WHAT WAS SO PREMIUM ABOUT THE BUS THAT COST $2????? And how was the free bus so much worse? Today, there is a premium service (a very convenient and seamless one, much more so than the buses it replaced) there that is airtrain. Cheaper options still exist, and everyone has the right to chose what fits their particular situation. It's not a premium service. It's the mass transit way of getting there. Mass transit is looked down upon. No one considers taking the (A) all the way to Howard Beach "premium". The PA should be making it more attractive, since it has excess capacity. They should not be stealing $5 from people just so get into the parking lot, where there is already a free airtrain. And the A freakn lets you off right on the border of the airport! How great is that?!!?!! Except that then they still make you pay $5, the same as people coming from Jamaica WHICH IS NO WHERE NEAR THE AIRPORT! And it isn't. They do charge a fee for AirTrain however. Fare control access makes it necessary to put up a fence. People can walk into the airport (yeah the thousands that must walk to the airport) can access the airport from Lefferts if they so chose. Or they can take a bus. Most had that choice before arriving at Howard Beach station. No, it is ped toll. The HB branch is free. It is on the property. Addressed in one of these recent posts. No you didn't. I want to know what the parallel free service is, just like how the (A) paralleled TTTTP. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 4 08:53:45 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 06:28:45 2008. Who made you the public spokesperson? |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Tue Mar 4 09:08:02 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 4 08:53:45 2008. HEY HEY, that's SPOKESFOAMER, get it right, dammit! |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 4 09:15:32 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Tue Mar 4 09:08:02 2008. Sorry, my bad! |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 09:22:31 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Tue Mar 4 09:08:02 2008. Oh, so I speak for you too now? I'd rather not... |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 09:34:32 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 4 02:57:33 2008. A Howard Beach resident couldn't simply enter the parking lot -- they had to pay a NYCTA fare first. Nobody went through for "free".But that was a pedestrian toll, which, as you know in your heart of hearts, is just WRONG. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 09:36:56 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 06:28:45 2008. I was talking about from the subway station.So there was, in your terms, a 'precedent' to charge an 'pedestrian toll'? Pulling sh*t like this is certainly NOT in the best interests of the public. Airtrain moves manure? I didn't know that.... I hope they have adequate ventilation. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 09:46:59 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by SMAZ on Tue Mar 4 03:36:22 2008. It was more than $1 for the JFK Express.It was (at least at some point) $3.95 + regular subway fare to ride the JFK Express to Howard Beach. Once at Howard Beach, people would walk to a shuttle bus which would circulate the airport. That bus was free if you had a JFK Express slip, but all other regular subway people had to pay $2 for that bus if they didn't have a JFK Express slip. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 09:53:05 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 06:28:45 2008. I was talking about from the subway station.Right, and we still are today. Pedestrians from Howard Beach (the community) don't "walk" to the airport, so there is no access necessary except to the Airtrain station. Unlike when there was a shuttle bus there before Airtrain and subway passengers had to walk into the fence to get that shuttle bus, today that is not necessary as they can walk right from the NYCT station to the AirTrain station, so the hole in the fence is not necessary, unless they wanted to try and evade the fare, for that there is always vicegrips. That doesn't make it right! They are a semi-governmental agency. They are supposed to be acting in the best interests of the public. They are. They exponentially improved the experience there by providing a seamless service between the Subway station to the circulator and the terminals. A system that is a vast improvement over what was there before, and much more likely to attract new riders than the bus at the mercy of all weather conditions and schlepping. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 10:04:14 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 09:53:05 2008. And in one of the (more possible) items, LGA Airtrain could be next.I suppose that I thought construction from Flushing would be easier but we'll see what happens. Then we can have this debate all over again. :) |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 10:17:44 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 06:45:15 2008. But in every other airport in the country, you don't need to pay the airport to ride the circulator if you transfer from adjacent rapid transit! So you can't use that as your reason for the parking lot people!First off, they are not paying to ride a circulator, they are paying for the connection to the circulator via the paid branch of the AirTrain to Howard Beach. Second, we are talking about JFK Airport. What other airports do in completely different situations or even if they were the same, is irrelevant. That is there, this is here, and they have no baring on each other. Or they could stop charging people coming from the A. I don't understand why you are against that. Why should they stop charging from the A? It's a paid branch of Airtrain that brings them to the free part of the circulator after Federal Circle. Parking at the lot along the paid HB leg allows people using that lot for the fee to be waived, just like all the other lots along the actual circulator. They are already paying to park. I didn't say they are paying airtrain IN that parking, I said parking there allows them (and the car's occupants) to ride airtrain, just like any of the other lots. No, they don't have a choice. They have to have secret inside info. Any old shlub on the (A) hears "A to JFK" a million times. He is told over and over to make sure he is on a Far Rockaway train stopping at Howard Beach in order to get airtrain. He is not told each time that there is a free alternative. In fact, he's not ever told that AirTrain costs money. There is no "secret" info. Most people given the choice would chose the HB leg of Airtrain over the hellbus via the Q10 anyway. Any regular rider will know the other options. And if not, that's their own fault. If someone is not satisfied with the $5, most people would see if there are alternates (most of which of course are more expensive than $5). The "free" alternative via the Q10 SUCKS the big one. Most will not chose that anyway. Regulars have the option of buying a monthly for Airtrain which comes to only $1 a ride (depending on how often of course). That is still well worth it for the ease of connection and not to have to schlep on that Q10 bus. It's in their best interest to get as many people to their airport as they can. And look, there is a subway line RIGHT ON THE BORDER OF THE PROPERTY. Of course they are going to serve it!!!!!!! They'd be nuts not to! Correct. And they exponentially improved the connection too! It's called Airtrain. I'm surprised you never heard of it. No, they did it probably because the MTA dropped it train to the plane bus shuttle and the PA recognized that they needed to continue serving the A station. Of course. But since the MTA was no longer providing a premium service, and their premium service was still years away, the bus had to do, no matter how inconvenient it was. What ROW "into" the airport?????? The MTA owned some strip of ROW into the airport which they never used for direct subway to circulator service via that line. I don't know if that dated still from the LIRR or if that was obtained after the transit system took over the Rockaway line, but either way, they owned a ROW into the airport which they never used. If they had extended the A train to the circulator and had the A terminate there somewhere along the free circulator, then we would not be having this conversation. No, they do not rightfully charge for it. They are stealing money from people. There is NO reason to be charging money for it. Thanks for your OPINION. But we heard your OPINION already. Opinions are not fact. If they want to replace a FREE service with one costing $5, then yes, they better dam well offer a parallel free alternative. There is no reason to have a second, redundant, and inconvenient service parralling the Airtrain service which is far superior. The "free service" that operated for about 10 years replaced a PAID service before it that was connected to a premium service that was discontinued. After the seamless AirTrain connection was made, a connection that is a premium service over the bus it replaced. The AirTrain has much more potential to attract new riders than the crappy bus it replaced, now that a seamless connection via rail is there which brings people to the circulator and eventiually to their terminals very efficiently. For those that feel that their time and convenience is not worth much, or those that don't mind, there is an alternative with the SAME A train (running alternatively with HB A trains). it's called the Q10. No, it would be propert. The people riding the A, trying to get to JFK, have no clue about the Q10. Every announcement and sign says to take a Far Rockaway (A) train to Howard Beach for AirTrain Yes, because you would have to be somewhat dimented to chose the Lefferts A and the Q10 over the much easier, convenient, and reasonable Airtrain service at Howard Beach. Who in their right mind would chose a bus at the mercy of traffic and all weather conditions over a simple 10 minute train ride. Furthermore, on the online map, they even put "Q10 to JFK Airport", one of the only buses that they actually give a destination next to the number for) when you click on Lefferts Blvd). |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Tue Mar 4 10:28:23 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 06:45:15 2008. Goes to kitchen for sandwiches and drinks. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 10:59:15 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 06:54:12 2008. No, parking lot people are not being charged for airtrain.No, I said they are paying for parking, and in doing that, just like in all the other lots, they can ride airtrain, just like their occupants. That's like that for all the parking lots that connect to airtrain. By that line of thinking, they can't charge A train riders if they aren't charging everyone! Sure they can, it's no different than the argument you are saying from the other angle. They can't charge people to use airtrain if they already charged them for parking! "No other airport in the country does such a thing". The parking fee allows the people who paid it, as well as those in their car to ride Airtrain. That is not the same as to say (as you twisted) that airtrain is INCLUDED in the parking fee. Like I asked, WHAT WAS SO PREMIUM ABOUT THE BUS THAT COST $2????? And how was the free bus so much worse? The bus was connected to the "premium" service called the JFK Express. That bus was FREE for those people that paid for the JFK Express. All the other regular subway people, if they didn't have a JFK Slip had to pay $2 for the use of that bus when they walked out of the subway station to the parking lot. The bus was the best they could do transport people from the HB station, there was no Airtrain back then, so that was the best they could do at the time. Today, they have a better system, it's called AirTrain. People who already paid for parking (and their occupants) can ride that paid branch of AirTrain free, just like the people that used to pay for the JFK Express could ride the $2 shuttle bus from Howard Beach for free. That $2 shuttle bus was the only way to get to the airport terminals from Howard Beach unless you paid for the JFK Express. There was no "parallel service" then either. For 10 years, unfortunately there was no premium services to the airport. That changed once again with the opening of AirTrain. The JFK Express was only a premium service back then because the A ran local in Brooklyn back then, and the JFK Express used the express track. Today, the A runs express all day, so there is not as much of a need for a JFK Express-like train if it's sharing the same trakc with the A anyway. No, it is ped toll. The HB branch is free. It is on the property. No, it's no different then when they the normal subway people had to pay $2 to use the shuttle bus, while JFK Express people rode that bus for free....same as the parking people paying for parking allowing them and their passengers allowed on for free. It's a fee for the use of Airtrain, just like there was a fee in the same exact location to use the $2 shuttle bus when the JFK Express ran. The Q10 always was allowed to circulate the airport for free, the only difference is now the connection to the free circulator is made at Federal circle (which makes sense since the airtrain free circulator circles anyway). The kiss and ride people luck out, but there would be no way to make some sort cost effective fare collection method to have them pay. Anything would require the parking lot people to have a pass, similar to the way the JFK Express people had a transfer slip. The cost of insttuing that sort of a card fare collection system at Lefferts would probably be higher than just letting the kiss and ride people ride free. The cost of the fare collection system revenue would probably be more than any revenue they would collect from the kiss and ride people, so they luck out. No real way to avoid that cost effectively. No you didn't. I want to know what the parallel free service is, just like how the (A) paralleled TTTTP. I am very surprised you don't know former subway patterns. Back when the Train to the Plane ran, the A used the local track in Brooklyn most of the day. Today, the A runs express in Brooklyn most of the day. The need for the JFK Express is much less now because it would be sharing the same tracks with the A. Once the A ran express all day, the JFK Express became even less important and was eventually discontinued. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 11:02:51 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 09:34:32 2008. This is why he totally avoided the $2 posts, hoping that would go away, until he was called on it. I can't see why he would have selectively ignored about 8 posts mentioning the former $2 shuttle bus, until forced to comment.The $2 shuttle bus was no different. No everyone paid for the shuttle bus - only people arriving from the regular subway...the A, C, or H. JFK Express people (just like parking lot people today) rode that TWO DOLLAR bus, free. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 11:06:04 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 09:36:56 2008. So there was, in your terms, a 'precedent' to charge an 'pedestrian toll'?Yup...I didn't even like the idea of a "pedestrian toll". But since he brought it up, it may as well be used now when it's on the other side of the fence (literally). There was a $2 shuttle bus at the Howard Beach to provide service for those transferring from the normal subway lines. and I don't want to hear about the "ownership" either. The Q10 was allowed to circle the airport for free, as well as other buses (just like today - at least connecting to the free circulator)...and the Q10 wasn't operated by the MTA....or the Port Authority back then either. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 11:10:42 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 10:04:14 2008. From Flusing would be easier perhaps, but it really needs to connecto to Jamaica for LIRR service, people are not going to use it freely if they have to transfer at Woodside. There also needs to be a good connection to LGA through the subway too, and Jamaica is sort of out of the way, so I feel there needs to be two branches of Airtrain for LGA too. Perhaps over the Grand Central connecting to the N at Astoria Blvd. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 11:11:16 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Tue Mar 4 10:28:23 2008. I wish I could go get popcorn, but somehow I got dragged back into this. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 4 13:16:20 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 11:06:04 2008. I happen to agree with him that the "fare" at HB is indeed, technically, a "pedestrian toll" rather than a "fare"I disagree with Terp in that I don't think it matters. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 13:23:57 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 4 13:16:20 2008. I can agree with Pig's calling it a "fee" instead of a fare.I also agree that "it doesn't matter" whatever you call it, the "problem" the airtrain bashers feel is there, doesn't matter. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 13:31:22 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 13:23:57 2008. How is a fee different from a fare? |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 13:31:50 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 4 13:16:20 2008. Because pedestrian tolls are totally acceptable, right? |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 13:33:29 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Tue Mar 4 09:36:56 2008. So there was, in your terms, a 'precedent' to charge an 'pedestrian toll'?No. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 13:40:13 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 11:06:04 2008. No, there wasn't.The $2 shuttle bus was not operated by the PA. It was operated by a third party to get the third party's passengers to the airport terminals. It was all part of TTTTP service. It had NOTHING to do with the PA circulating people on the airport it controls. Thus, it is irrelevant. The parallel to today's airtrain is the free shuttle bus the PA ran from the subway station to the terminals. The purpose of this was to circulate people within the airport. People arrive at the airport property via NYCT, then they are circulated to the terminal buildings by the PA. There is no precedent for the airport controlling authority to charge money to circulate people within the airport grounds. None. The Q10 was allowed to circle the airport for free, as well as other buses (just like today - at least connecting to the free circulator) IIRC the Q10 is no longer allowed to stop at all the terminals. It can only stop at some of the non-terminal airtrain stations and JFK terminal 4. That makes the bus service more inconvenient than it used to be. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 14:00:22 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 10:17:44 2008. First off, they are not paying to ride a circulator, they are paying for the connection to the circulator via the paid branch of the AirTrain to Howard Beach.Nope. Yoi still think circulators are loops. They aren't! Circulators circulate people throughout the airport property, including the parking lots! Thus the HB branch is part of the circulator! The only station on AirTrain that isn't on airport property is the Jamaica station, and the only section of ROW off airport property is the section from north of Fed Circle to Jamaica! That is the only part of AirTrain that isn't part of the circulator. Second, we are talking about JFK Airport. What other airports do in completely different situations or even if they were the same, is irrelevant. That is there, this is here, and they have no baring on each other. It's not irrelevant at all. It is totally relevant. Why should they stop charging from the A? It's a paid branch of Airtrain that brings them to the free part of the circulator after Federal Circle. Parking at the lot along the paid HB leg allows people using that lot for the fee to be waived, just like all the other lots along the actual circulator. They are already paying to park. I didn't say they are paying airtrain IN that parking, I said parking there allows them (and the car's occupants) to ride airtrain, just like any of the other lots. No, see above. There is no "secret" info. Most people given the choice would chose the HB leg of Airtrain over the hellbus via the Q10 anyway. Any regular rider will know the other options. And if not, that's their own fault. If someone is not satisfied with the $5, most people would see if there are alternates (most of which of course are more expensive than $5). The "free" alternative via the Q10 SUCKS the big one. Most will not chose that anyway. Regulars have the option of buying a monthly for Airtrain which comes to only $1 a ride (depending on how often of course). That is still well worth it for the ease of connection and not to have to schlep on that Q10 bus. Haha, regular riders! What regular riders (non-employees) would take a long ride on the (A) just to pay $5 for a short ride through a parking lot one stop? Probably very very few. Correct. And they exponentially improved the connection too! It's called Airtrain. I'm surprised you never heard of it. Making a free service a paid service is not an improvement. Of course. But since the MTA was no longer providing a premium service, and their premium service was still years away, the bus had to do, no matter how inconvenient it was. The MTA was not providing a premium service. The premium service was on the rails. The bus to the terminals was not premium. It was just part of the package. If they had extended the A train to the circulator and had the A terminate there somewhere along the free circulator, then we would not be having this conversation. And you know this becuse? How does the (A) running onto the property change ANY part of your argument? You still have the problem of people taking the subway to Jamaica having to pay for AirTrain. You still have AirTRain going all the way to the long term lot. So they didn't have to build a couple hundred feet of structure and a station. That justifies not charging a fare to A transferees when the fare doesn't even cover the construction costs in the first place? I have a BIG problem with you saying "If they had extended the A train to the circulator and had the A terminate there somewhere along the free circulator, then we would not be having this conversation" because it runs counter to all of your arguments. Thanks for your OPINION. But we heard your OPINION already. Opinions are not fact. As I already said, and you keep ignoring, it is an opinion based on fact. The ONE AND ONLY fact you have backing up your opinion on all this is that "the PA can do whatever they want". That's just great. There is no reason to have a second, redundant, and inconvenient service parralling the Airtrain service which is far superior. Yes there is. To provide people with a free alternative to get around the airport. The "free service" that operated for about 10 years replaced a PAID service before it No it didn't. The paid service was a TTTP package. If you didn't use the rail portion, that was your loss. The free PA shuttle bus did not replace TTTTP. Nothing has replaced TTTTP. The AirTrain has much more potential to attract new riders than the crappy bus it replaced, now that a seamless connection via rail is there which brings people to the circulator and eventiually to their terminals very efficiently. Not at $5 a person. At $0 per person however it would have a greater potential. For those that feel that their time and convenience is not worth much, or those that don't mind, there is an alternative with the SAME A train (running alternatively with HB A trains). it's called the Q10. It's not advertised nearly as much. It's not announced on the trains. People are told a million time to go to HB for the airtrain. The people who are most likely to not like the $5 far are those that weren't expecting it, and those are people who aren't regular riders and would have no idea about the Q10. Yes, because you would have to be somewhat dimented to chose the Lefferts A and the Q10 over the much easier, convenient, and reasonable Airtrain service at Howard Beach. Which is why the free shuttle buses from HB should remain. The Q10, according to you, is not a viable free alternative. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 14:01:02 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 13:40:13 2008. The $2 shuttle bus was not operated by the PA. It was operated by a third party to get the third party's passengers to the airport terminals. It was all part of TTTTP service.The $2 bus apparently (and correct me if I am wrong) was the ONLY bus that could take the regular subway people away from Howard Beach NYCT station to where they had to go also. Either way it was relevant, as subway people were being charged to take that bus (unless they took the JFK Express). Some people paid for that bus, others did not. The parallel to today's airtrain is the free shuttle bus the PA ran from the subway station to the terminals. ...which also parallels the other $2 bus, that prior was also the only bus that subway people had to pay for. It's irrelevant "who" was operating the bus. It was "the" bus that the NYCT people had to use. The Q10 wasn't operated by the MTA or the PA back then either. People arrive at the airport property via NYCT, then they are circulated to the terminal buildings by the PA. Just as they did when the JFK Express was there. People came via the JFK express, OR the normal subway. The $2 bus fee was waived for the people that arived via the JFK Express. The other subway people had to pay $2. After that service ended, for about 10 years, the PA had no choice but to operate a bus, as "someone" had to do it. They thankfully replaced that inconvenient bus and replaced it with Airtrain, a much better service, which is much more likely to attract passengers through an all rail connection than a bus at the mercy of conditions and through all weather condition, and schlepping. There is no precedent for the airport controlling authority to charge money to circulate people within the airport grounds. None. Precedent doesn't amount to oa hill of beans, but even so, there was. It was the $2 bus that the subway people HAD to take to get from the NYCT HB station to their terminals. Doesn't matter who operated it - the PA didn't need to operate it as that service was being done by someone else. IIRC the Q10 is no longer allowed to stop at all the terminals. It can only stop at some of the non-terminal airtrain stations and JFK terminal 4. That makes the bus service more inconvenient than it used to be. Not at all, it connects to the free circulator at Federal circle and Terminal 4. It's actually more convenient as once on the free circulator, the airtrain is not at the mercy of looping the entire airport in all kinds of traffic conditions, and signalling. Airtrain just wisks above it. I had taken the Q10 often back then, and it was far from convenient to get to and wait for. You still had a schlep between the bus shelter and the terminal, and you had to wait in all kinds of weather conditions in a small bus shelter, and was at the mercy of Airport traffic, signalling, etc. Not to mention the headways were not nearly as good as AirTrain is. And the Q10(which was not operated by the MTA or the PA) was allowed to circulate for free, just like now, so nothing has changed, except they can come in and get out faster now by efficiently dropping passengers off at Federal Circle (and apparently Terminal 4, which I was not aware of, which I think is the International Building). Of course back then the bus circulating was much more necessary, as there was no rail circulator connecting the terminals back then, so it was necessary to cirle the entire airport. That's not necessary now, as the circling is handled efficiently (and for free) through airtrain. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Mar 4 14:08:14 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 13:31:50 2008. I think Charles means what I've said. It may not be fair, but it doesn't matter. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Tue Mar 4 14:11:53 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 14:00:22 2008. LOL, You really take this crap seriously, don't you? |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Tue Mar 4 14:12:29 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 11:11:16 2008. Get Brian some popcorn laced with valium. |
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Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 14:33:16 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 14:00:22 2008. Nope. Yoi still think circulators are loops. They aren't! Circulators circulate people throughout the airport property, including the parking lots! Thus the HB branch is part of the circulator! The only station on AirTrain that isn't on airport property is the Jamaica station, and the only section of ROW off airport property is the section from north of Fed Circle to Jamaica! That is the only part of AirTrain that isn't part of the circulator.Doesn't matter. There are two branches to Airtrain, and a free circulator. It's a paid branch to Jamaica from Federal Circle and a paid branch to HB from Federal Circle. After that connection point, the whole thing is free. Since the HB paid branch runs through the long term lot, it would have been silly to continue using a bus to serve that lot, so they allow access to the PAID Howard Beach branch from that lot. They waive the HB fee for those people that paid for parking there already, as well as anyone that came in their car. The Q10 people was always allowed to circulate the airport (even though the MTA or PA didn't operated that route), so they still can, the only difference is they also let them off to use the convenient AirTrain instead of having the bus circle the whole airport inefficiently. the bus can drop them off (and at Terminal 4) and get out of there. Much more efficient for the passengers, as well as the rest of the route. The kiss and ride people luck out, but that was already discussed. Haha, regular riders! What regular riders (non-employees) would take a long ride on the (A) just to pay $5 for a short ride through a parking lot one stop? Probably very very few. Right, that's why they use the different cards that are available to AirTrain users. Making a free service a paid service is not an improvement. Says who? You? "Free" does not mean better. The AirTrain is much more likely to attract new people than the inconvenient bus it replaced. Just because it was free before, does not mean it has to be free now, especially after adding a much improved way to get to the terminals from there. Furthermore, it was only a 10 year "reprieve" that it was free. It used to be $2 (in uninflated 1970's and 80's dollars) to shuttle by bus between Howard Beach station and the terminals. Somehow you keep conveniently forgetting that. The MTA was not providing a premium service. The premium service was on the rails. The bus to the terminals was not premium. It was just part of the package. Yes, the premium service was on the rails, but the bus WAS part of the package as you said. However, for all those that didn't buy the package, they had to pay the $2 fee/fare to ride the shuttle bus. There was no other way to get to the terminals. They weren't walking. And you know this becuse? How does the (A) running onto the property change ANY part of your argument? You still have the problem of people taking the subway to Jamaica having to pay for AirTrain. You still have AirTRain going all the way to the long term lot. So they didn't have to build a couple hundred feet of structure and a station. That justifies not charging a fare to A transferees when the fare doesn't even cover the construction costs in the first place? I have a BIG problem with you saying "If they had extended the A train to the circulator and had the A terminate there somewhere along the free circulator, then we would not be having this conversation" because it runs counter to all of your arguments. The subway does not bring you to the free circulator as it is now. If the MTA did extend to the free circulator, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. The HB branch is not the free circulator, it was built to bring people from Howard Beach station to the circulator, something the MTA did not do. The Long Term Parking lot could have gotten along just find with a much smaller extension of the circulator, or continued to use buses to bring the people to the circulator, but since they were building a branch to HB anyway, it made sense to pcik up the Long Term parking lot people, as well as connect the Q10 to the station they were building. The HB branch is NOT a free circulator. As I already said, and you keep ignoring, it is an opinion based on fact. The ONE AND ONLY fact you have backing up your opinion on all this is that "the PA can do whatever they want". That's just great. No, your "fact" is an OPINION. Your stance is based on an opinion that "they can't charge for that branch". The reasons you state are only factually because that's what YOU believe. That doesn't make it fact. The ONE AND ONLY fact you have backing up your opinion on all this is that "the PA can do whatever they want". That's just great. I have NEVER said that ONCE in this entire thread, or any other thread about AirTrain. Ever. Yes there is. To provide people with a free alternative to get around the airport. There doesn't need to be a free alternative. There wasn't while the JFK Express was around, and there isn't now. The only time there was was when there was no other way. THEN there was a free alternative. And there still is. It's called the Q10, a bus that connects to the same alternating A train as the HB station. No it didn't. The paid service was a TTTP package. If you didn't use the rail portion, that was your loss. The free PA shuttle bus did not replace TTTTP. Nothing has replaced TTTTP. Read what you said again. "If you didn't use the [premium] rail portion THAT WAS YOUR LOSS". There WAS NO other option but to take the $2 bus back then. A bus that you wish would go away. It's NO different than now when the only option (at that particular station) is the AirTrain. During the reign of all the changes at Howard beach from a $2 bus to a "reprieve" for some years to Airtrain, only one thing remained constant....the Q10 served it too as a cheaper option...and at one time, even that required a double fare if you came via the A train. Not at $5 a person. At $0 per person however it would have a greater potential. It doesn't seem to be having much problems from what I read. At $0 the subway would have a lot more potential too. Hell, let's make the whole LIRR free. I am sure a lot more people would use it. It's not advertised nearly as much. It's not announced on the trains. People are told a million time to go to HB for the airtrain. The people who are most likely to not like the $5 far are those that weren't expecting it, and those are people who aren't regular riders and would have no idea about the Q10. Who cares if it's not advertised as much. The Q10 was always available. It's not up to the PA to announce it on their AirTrain ads. There is no secret about it if someone picks up a bus map. Anyone planning on taking the bus to the airport will look at a map. And I don't believe your OPINION about the fact that "all these people aren't expecting the $5" is highly exagerated. Anyone pulling up the AirTrain website will also say what the fee is. Most people looking into AirTrain will probably investigate into it, by looking up their website or calling to see how long it would take so they can plan their trip accordingly. Which is why the free shuttle buses from HB should remain. The Q10, according to you, is not a viable free alternative. It's not viable to me, as I wouldn't waste my valuable time on it. Most people wouldn't waste valuable time on a bus. That is why a rail connection has much more potential to attract riders. There wasn't a free connection at HB when the $2 (in uninflated dollars) bus was running either. There doesn't "need" to be a free connection there. That's another opinion. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 14:37:22 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 14:01:02 2008. And the Q10(which was not operated by the MTA or the PA) was allowed to circulate for free, just like now, so nothing has changed, except they can come in and get out faster now by efficiently dropping passengers off at Federal Circle (and apparently Terminal 4, which I was not aware of, which I think is the International Building).I meant Lefferts AirTrain, not Federal Circle. |
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Re: Air Train question- MTA ROW at JFK |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 4 17:22:15 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 4 10:17:44 2008. "The MTA owned some strip of ROW into the airport which they never used for direct subway to circulator service via that line. I don't know if that dated still from the LIRR or if that was obtained after the transit system took over the Rockaway line, but either way, they owned a ROW into the airport which they never used. If they had extended the A train to the circulator and had the A terminate there somewhere along the free circulator, then we would not be having this conversation."Correct. It was a one track ROW. The MTA did not want to branch the A a second time after Lefferts/Rockaway because that would screw up service frequency to the Peninsula. The PA took the hint and, instead, brought AirTrain to Howard Beach. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 4 19:24:04 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by AlM on Tue Mar 4 14:08:14 2008. I'm not particularly concerned with any one person's interpretation of the "fairness" of the situation. Fairness is determined by the market -- not by an individual.The PA built the AirTrain. They build the connection to the A train at Howard Beach. They can charge whatever they want for people to use it. The people have other choices to access the airport for free, if they so choose. At the end of the day, if people find this charge to be unfair and choose not to utilize this entrance, the PA will not make their revenue targets for this segment. They will have to decide whether or not to adjust or even drop the access charge. Interestingly, I rode AirTrain from Jamaica on Sunday. I noticed that there is now a "10-trip AirTrain Metrocard" that is valid for 180 days and costs $25. I don't think that has been mentioned anywhere in these discussions -- at least I don't recall seeing it. |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 4 19:25:12 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 4 13:31:50 2008. Why isn't a pedestrian toll acceptable? |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 4 19:25:54 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 4 19:24:04 2008. That's good news. And this new card is available to anyone to buy? |
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Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 4 19:28:05 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 4 19:25:12 2008. Sign on Road:^ | | PED TOLL ^ | | PED XING |
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