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| Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) (22870) | |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by BMTLines on Fri Nov 26 00:02:27 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by aem7 on Thu Nov 25 17:31:28 2004. I am bored with these photo ban threads. You people act like it is the end of the world.Maybe it doesn't matter to you because you think you can always go on sites like this and view as many pictures of the subway as you like based upon the risks others take. I propose that if this ban passes then the photos on all railfan sites should become subscription only like the old pre-internet bulletin boards - you get to view only if you upload. A hobby is not something you can force yourself to like - for many people taking pictures of trains is an important part of their lives. A hobby is also something that is pursued for pleasure - forcing someone to take on an alternative form of entertainment (like stamp collecting) is not an option. Finally I spent hundreds of dollars on camera equipment that I use solely for the purpose of taking pictures of trains. If this ban passes the equipment will be useless to me. I'll stop talking about the photo ban if you reimburse me for the camera, scanner and color printer. |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by Bingham C50 on Fri Nov 26 00:06:45 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by BMTLines on Fri Nov 26 00:02:27 2004. I couldn't have said it any better than you did.Thank you. |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Nov 26 00:07:29 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Nov 25 23:08:28 2004. Are you serious?I am surprised that CSX has a large enough police force to even get someone out to the BSM. I have never had problems taking photos of CSX from my little vantage point on 26th St. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Here's a good letter :) |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Fri Nov 26 00:15:56 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by Mark on Thu Nov 25 12:59:28 2004. Reasons the ban would be problematic:Security: Terrorism isn't the only problem in the subway, and even if it was, cameras might be able to catch the evildoer in the act and at the beginning of his or her crimes. Today's cell phone cameras can record and send photos to security agencies, and vigilantes with cameras would save the police energy and money (thus saving the taxpayers money, thus saving votes for the politicians up in Albany). As the world actually is, the Islamic terror is not the subway's only trouble with crime, with such wrongdoing as assaults, robberies, turnstile jumping, and Metrocard fraud threatining to swipe our subway's hard-won gains since the downtrodden 1980s from under its feet. Photographers can catch the bad guys in the act, and a photo ban wouldn't help in such cases, as pictures are such vivid descriptions that they led to that cliche about "a picture being worth a thousand words". Constitutionality: Photography that is not obscene, and does not appeal to the country's prurient interest, is likely federally protected speech. In such a case, the photography curtailment proposed by the NYCTA would be, in all likelihood, unconstitutionally overbroad. (Please note that there was a case involving the Boston subway, I think - the MBTA - and the Jews for Jesus, in which the latter were caught "illegally" pamphletting in the subways by the former, and this ban was struck down by the courts as "unconstitutionally overbroad".) A ban might not pass constitutional muster, even in a Supreme Court handpicked by George W. Bush. Discrimination against tourists and lovers of New York State and New York City: While this has nothing to do about the Constitution, it is nonetheless unfair and unethical to keep the right of picture-taking from people who are New Yorkers, whether rich or poor, contributors to the GOP or the Democrats, freelance journalists or folks from the "Daily News", subway enthusiasts or folks who travel by helicopter. New York is a city with a teeming crowd, probably with enough of the rich and famous to make permit-granting to them a hassle, and thus a photography ban may be quite tough to enforce, even on a selective basis. Moreover, New York City and New York State both stand to lose tourism money if tourists are kept from photographing New York City landmarks - and let's face it: the Subway is a landmark. |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 26 00:26:18 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Nov 25 23:08:28 2004. Yep ... that's why I mentioned it because in your situation, it was amusing. At the same time though, just TRY to whip out a camera near the Selkirk yards around here - you WILL go to the holding pen as guests of the Town of Bethlehem Police. The last time I had guests who wanted to take some pictures of trains, I had to go through QUITE the shakedown with the CSX cops in order to set it all up in advance. I guess it all depends on the "selective enforcement" in each local jurisdiction ... and therein lies the REAL problem ... |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by ntrainride on Fri Nov 26 00:29:46 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Thu Nov 25 19:01:57 2004. "It starts with the northeastern states and far western states splitting off and becoming their own nations - New England, and The republic of California."Oh, so what you're saying is, we should emulate the balkanized continents of Europe and Africa, and become a series of small weak nations. Hmmm. Doesn't seem to be working too well in Europe and Africa. You want our children to grow up in such a place? You break up this country like that it's basically guaranteed they will be doomed to a life of want and despair. IMO it's been the strength of our united states that has allowed the squabbling territories of Europe to continue in their antiquated Continental fashion. Without us you would see major invasions of the Continent by forces of, uh, "others", desirous of the lands and resources for their own peoples. And I ain't talkin' about illegal immigration. I'm talkin' tanks. So you want want to rethink that position. The day of the thriving small nation has passed. To aspire to such an "accomplishment" is geopolitical folly. Internally, it's tantamount to civil war. |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by ntrainride on Fri Nov 26 00:52:33 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Thu Nov 25 14:25:43 2004. The subway is not a place to satisfy our personal urges. It's a shared facility. Too many people haven't been raised right, or forget what they learned, or simply lack a sense of personal fastidiousness. On any train where people have brought foods like fried chicken, burgers, egg sandwiches, fries, chinese food or any hot food, there WILL be food scraps and garbage and litter and grease left behind. This will reduce the quality of the ride for proceeding passengers. Hence the laws banning eating, drinking and smoking on public conveyances. It's the only way to at least attempt to keep these piggish behaviors in check, besides public disdain of the slobs.And yeah, I'm also thinking of those who have drinks on the trains too. |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by ntrainride on Fri Nov 26 01:06:27 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by BIE on Thu Nov 25 13:15:15 2004. I don't give a crap about whatever your political affiliation is. Makes no difference. Because it's strikingly obvious just how little informed you are about so much in life. You spout off the same limited litany of sullen exhortations. It's like hearing a chicken strutting about the yard, squawking and pecking. Anybody who has actually lived under real repression and misery would probably want to kick your ass for fronting like you do.But you're free to do so. Just as I'm free to tell you, pone en su culo, Chicken Little. |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by Booge on Fri Nov 26 01:31:15 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by Mark on Thu Nov 25 12:59:28 2004. I'll definitly write one but want to know if any public hearings can be scheduled so that folks can express their venom against the proposed ban. I realize that no hearings are required to be held for proposed rulemaking, but I feel that we have the right to be heard.I will in contact with a good friend of mine, John Fiorella, the General Counsel of the National Railway Hustorical Society and see what his thoughts on the subject are. |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Nov 26 01:34:31 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 26 00:26:18 2004. If there really is not law against photography from public places and if you have some extra time let the town arrest you then sue them. I'm sure they'd love that. You might even be able to make a few bucks on the whole thing. |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by Booge on Fri Nov 26 01:36:27 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Thu Nov 25 13:31:27 2004. I rode the LIRR in Flatbush Ave for four years and just about every other passenger had an open beer, soda or coffee container. No one ever told a passenger they couldn't take or consume it on board. Heck they even sell them on the platforms there. |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by ntrainride on Fri Nov 26 01:38:10 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by vengence on Thu Nov 25 18:25:03 2004. Thank goodness, in many ways, the business of America IS business. You can make much more money from a freedom-enjoying population than with any other folk. So I think you're under-estimating the strength of the desire of those with lots of money to make lots more. Case in point: SouthWest Airlines is going to open four new gates over at Islip Macarthur Airport. With their own funds. They sure aren't planning for a gloomy world of restrictions and setbacks.As long as we remain a capitalistic society I ain't losing any sleep. Greedy powerful folks are working long hours to ensure I'll be in the right frame of mind to acquire what they're peddling. And they know I don't like to be bugged too much... |
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Re: Time to Focus Our Efforts Again |
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Posted by Booge on Fri Nov 26 01:40:07 2004, in response to Time to Focus Our Efforts Again, posted by Jayman on Thu Nov 25 16:17:25 2004. Also contacting our elected officials and making them aware of the proposed ban and its effect on the tourist dollar. |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 26 01:53:38 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Nov 26 01:34:31 2004. "Trespassing" does stick. Around here, you can do 30 days for littering. Plus there's surcharges for court, so the town makes money. That's why they'll roll that patrol car if they get a call. It's PROFIT. Ask anyone from here who knows this area. This ain't the metropolis here, next best thing to Mississippi at times if you honk off the wrong folks. |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 04:43:15 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Nov 25 23:08:28 2004. I hope the railroad pig cowards lost their jobs for good. |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 04:46:11 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by ntrainride on Fri Nov 26 00:29:46 2004. YES! |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 04:46:52 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by ntrainride on Fri Nov 26 00:52:33 2004. bu$h lover. |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Fri Nov 26 04:48:30 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by ntrainride on Fri Nov 26 00:29:46 2004. Anyone ever read Harry Turtledove novels? It talks about a split America (in which the South wins the Civil War, then turns fascist). |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 04:51:33 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by ntrainride on Fri Nov 26 01:06:27 2004. You are like those CSX pigs who got busted for hassling those folks who were taking photos from the grounds of a railroafd museum.ACLU- The REAL HEROES DEFENDING FREEDOM TODAY |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 05:00:29 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by ntrainride on Fri Nov 26 01:38:10 2004. The whole of Asia is a big wastelans of capitalistic police states Naxi Germany was CAPITALISTIC. Economic philosophies have nothing to do with the level of freedom. Capitalism helps, but there has to be a strong system of taxation and regulation to keep pace with modern corporate power or you get FASCISM! |
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Re: Here's a good letter :) |
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Posted by Trinity Railway Express F59PH 566 on Fri Nov 26 07:45:25 2004, in response to Here's a good letter :), posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Fri Nov 26 00:15:56 2004. It is a good letter. The constitutionality appears to have the best LEGAL argument here. However, appeals must be heard expeditiously, as Bush needs to pick just 2 people to pack the court. |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by West 4th Street on Fri Nov 26 07:54:40 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by BMTLines on Thu Nov 25 18:06:30 2004. Where has The Joe been all this time anyway? |
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Re: Here's a good letter :) |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 07:54:56 2004, in response to Re: Here's a good letter :), posted by Trinity Railway Express F59PH 566 on Fri Nov 26 07:45:25 2004. he only needs one. |
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Re: Here's a good letter :) |
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Posted by Trinity Railway Express F59PH 566 on Fri Nov 26 08:12:20 2004, in response to Re: Here's a good letter :), posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 07:54:56 2004. It is 6-3 Democrat appointments right now. |
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Re: Here's a good letter :) |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 08:14:38 2004, in response to Re: Here's a good letter :), posted by Trinity Railway Express F59PH 566 on Fri Nov 26 08:12:20 2004. I wish those six continued health for the next four years, the other three can go to hell. |
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Re: Here's a good letter :) |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 08:28:26 2004, in response to Re: Here's a good letter :), posted by Trinity Railway Express F59PH 566 on Fri Nov 26 08:12:20 2004. BTW< it is 7-2 FASCIST party appointments However Oconnor, Suoter and Stevens take their job seriously enough that theu USUALLY act to protect the Constitution. There are only two DemocratIC appointments to the court. I was half asleep when I made that earlier post. |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by Bingham C50 on Fri Nov 26 09:32:49 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by RJM on Thu Nov 25 13:31:13 2004. "BIE, you're not helping..."I'm inclined to agree... |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by Mark on Fri Nov 26 10:10:15 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by Booge on Fri Nov 26 01:31:15 2004. I'll definitly write one but want to know if any public hearings can be scheduled so that folks can express their venom against the proposed ban. I realize that no hearings are required to be held for proposed rulemaking, but I feel that we have the right to be heard.There are no hearings scheduled, and it appears to me that there is no way to force a hearing. The next public hearing will be about raising the CityTicket fare. December 6, 5pm, 347 Madison Avenue, register to speak by 7pm that day or contact Douglas Sussman, 212-878-7483. The next MTA board meeting is on December 16, 9:30am, same place. I've never been to a general meeting of the MTA board, so I don't know if they allow time for public comment. Mark |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by Mark on Fri Nov 26 10:11:33 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by Booge on Fri Nov 26 01:36:27 2004. I rode the LIRR in Flatbush Ave for four years and just about every other passenger had an open beer, soda or coffee container. No one ever told a passenger they couldn't take or consume it on board. Heck they even sell them on the platforms there.That's the LIRR, which has its own set of rules and "traditions." These rules only apply to MTA-labeled subways, buses, and SIRT. |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Nov 26 10:49:19 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by Mark on Thu Nov 25 22:43:04 2004. OK, so $100 fine if you don't have outstanding warrants and don't get too obnoxious with the summonsing officer. |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by ntrainride on Fri Nov 26 10:53:46 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 04:46:52 2004. Dude, before I come over there and mentally b-slap you for your disrespecting of me, let's follow this one instance.I said: "The subway is not a place to satisfy our personal urges. It's a shared facility. Too many people haven't been raised right, or forget what they learned, or simply lack a sense of personal fastidiousness. On any train where people have brought foods like fried chicken, burgers, egg sandwiches, fries, chinese food or any hot food, there WILL be food scraps and garbage and litter and grease left behind. This will reduce the quality of the ride for proceeding passengers. Hence the laws banning eating, drinking and smoking on public conveyances. It's the only way to at least attempt to keep these piggish behaviors in check, besides public disdain of the slobs." You said, in response: "Bu$h lover" Huh??? Where did that comment come from? How did you extract that datum from my post? You see ANY politics mentioned? I'm starting to think you lack the, uh, "state of mind" to participate in this forum. Your logic is incomprehensible, to put it kindly. Perhaps you should sign up on the NEOPETS site. Get some practice in, ya know what I'm sayin'? Face it boy, you been pwn3d. |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Fri Nov 26 11:35:07 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by Mark on Fri Nov 26 10:10:15 2004. Picket the MTA HQ (especially during rush hours). The folks in charge would be entering/ leaving, and someone's bound to notice. |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by Wayne on Fri Nov 26 12:04:56 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Nov 25 12:54:04 2004. Thank you. Now someone else sees that this c**t should be banned from the board. Photo ban? Bu$h's fault! Missed the bus this morning? Bu$h's fault! Spilt your coffee? Bu$h's fault! Change the record, John, I think it's stuck. Or seek help, seek professional help - and fast. You need it. |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by Wayne on Fri Nov 26 12:10:02 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 04:43:15 2004. Yep, doing what you are ordered is definitely grounds for termination! |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Nov 26 12:28:34 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 26 01:53:38 2004. Tresspassing is different from taking photos on public property. If they are that willing to trump up charges have a friend stake you out with a video camera so you can prove in court you never left the road. If it's about profit introduce the threat of lawsuits as a nice big fat cost. |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Nov 26 12:47:02 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Nov 26 12:28:34 2004. "Tresspassing is different from taking photos on public property. If they are that willing to trump up charges have a friend stake you out with a video camera so you can prove in court you never left the road. If it's about profit introduce the threat of lawsuits as a nice big fat cost."The trobule is you are suggesting a very high risk activity with no guaranteed return on investment of time and money (lawyer's fees). You can always have the bad luck to get a jury who decides you deserved what you got. Or to put it another way, if what you suggest is such a good idea, why aren't you doing it? |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Nov 26 12:48:12 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Fri Nov 26 11:35:07 2004. Picket the MTA HQ (especially during rush hours). The folks in charge would be entering/ leaving, and someone's bound to notice.Entering/leaving on the way to their limousines. After all, you can't expect MTA bigwigs to ride the subway with us (ick!) Common People. |
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Re: Time to Focus Our Efforts Again |
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Posted by the joe on Fri Nov 26 13:03:09 2004, in response to Time to Focus Our Efforts Again, posted by Jayman on Thu Nov 25 16:17:25 2004. I agree, and we'll have to do more than just rerun the protest. Making sure elected officials and others get on board will help.They might think for some wild stupid reason that we're all going to just shut up and go quietly into the night, but they are sadly mistaken. |
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Re: Time to Focus Our Efforts Again |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Nov 26 13:10:19 2004, in response to Re: Time to Focus Our Efforts Again, posted by the joe on Fri Nov 26 13:03:09 2004. Joe, please email me, it's very important. |
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Re: obtaining press credentials |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Nov 26 13:28:51 2004, in response to Re: obtaining press credentials, posted by Mark on Thu Nov 25 22:34:27 2004. There are different types of NYPD press IDs. A "Press Identification" doesn't allow you to cross police lines in emergency areas, only at non-emergency events like parades. A "Working Press" tag allows you to do so and is harder to be be approved for. I had the former until 2002, when they put more (post 9/11) restrictions to qualify and gave up the renewal. On top of that, the publication that gave me the credentials went belly up last year. :( |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 13:35:01 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by ntrainride on Fri Nov 26 10:53:46 2004. PWN3D By bu$h and the gutless socalled heroes. |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 13:35:52 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by Wayne on Fri Nov 26 12:04:56 2004. Listen to Train Dude. |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 13:42:39 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by Wayne on Fri Nov 26 12:10:02 2004. It didn't work at Nuremburg. Those gutless heroes BROKE THE LAW IF the CRIME was authorized by ANY superiors, They should go down as well BTW, because they were police officers, any CRIMES they commit result in TERMINATION. I just hope the VICTIMS Have COMPETENT public protection court officers (trial lawyers) to insure that CSZ and it's FORMER cops PAY the MAX. |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 13:56:40 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by Wayne on Fri Nov 26 12:10:02 2004. Ask Dan Lawrence what happenned"Guess what Unca Kevin, CSX tried stopping photos being taken from BSM property. It resulted in two CSX cops being arrested by Baltimore City Cops for trespassing and assult". Those railroad pigs and their superiors VIOLATED THE LAW. If it happened to me my lawyers would hire the Crips to see about the eviction after the lawsuit got over with. Ever notice that when an order is issued, it is always referred to as a LAWFUL ORDER. The Baltimore Police went in, enforced the law and locked the TRUE lawbreakers up and let the railfans go. |
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WAYNE READ THIS with photo ban |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 14:02:43 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by Wayne on Fri Nov 26 12:10:02 2004. Go tohttp://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=23068 And read how CSX treats railfans shooting from a railroad museun. Following UNLAWFUL orders which result in 2 FALSE ARRESTS is a FELONY Those CSX Cops WERE ARRESTED. If supervision issued unlawful orders, they go down too. A felony arrest ENDS a Police career |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Nov 26 14:33:00 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by AlM on Fri Nov 26 12:47:02 2004. Cause I don't have the time and I haven't had any problems down where I am living. |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by Dave on Fri Nov 26 14:58:39 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by BIE on Fri Nov 26 05:00:29 2004. << Naxi Germany was CAPITALISTIC >>Hey, Mr. Rocket Scientist..."Nazi" was short for "National Socialist." In case you haven't finished the third grade yet, Socialism ain't Capitalism. |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by Dave on Fri Nov 26 15:00:14 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Nov 26 14:33:00 2004. Maybe because you're not a lawyer; don't know the law; and are smart enough to know that? |
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Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban |
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Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Fri Nov 26 15:00:34 2004, in response to Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Nov 25 22:52:29 2004. IN THE SUBWAYS Fotog Focuses On TA Failures; [CITY Edition]Ellis Henican. Newsday. (Combined editions). Long Island, N.Y.: Jul 21, 1992. pg. 06 Flash! This news comes about 40 years too late. But after pointless decades of trying to keep cameras out of the subway, the Transit Authority has finally begun the process of giving up the fight. For this, underground fotogs have Angela D'Urso to thank. D'Urso is a legal secretary and a good citizen from the Bronx. She made a public stink back in April when she was fined for taking pictures at her local subway station. The station, 183rd Street on the No. 4 line, was a pit - and a dangerous pit, at that. For months, D'Urso had been complaining to the Transit Authority about the abysmal conditions there. The paint was peeling. The wiring was exposed. The glass had been knocked out of many of the windows. As a good citizen should, D'Urso phoned the Transit Authority several times to complain about this and, after getting nowhere at all, laid out the details in a letter on March 12. But the letter she got in return, from TA Stations Chief Carol Meltzer, said D'Urso didn't know what she was talking about. "No evidence of exposed wiring . . . " the letter said. "Or any evidence of peeling paint . . . " the letter said. So that evening after work, this public-spirited legal secretary started constructing an ironclad case. She got out her camera. She walked over to the subway. And she started firing away. At the wiring. At the peeling paint. At the holes where the windows used to be. That's about when two transit cops turned up. This picture-taking would have to stop immediately, one of the officers announced. Taking pictures in the subway, the cop said, was a clear violation of the official Transit Authority rules. D'Urso, of course, had never heard of any such regulation. And she had a hard time understanding why anyone should be stopped from documenting this particular truth. The cop didn't want to hear it. She just opened up a copy of her rule book and turned to section 1050.9(c). Damned if the rule wasn't there: "No photograph, film or video recording shall be made or taken on or in any conveyance or facility by any person, except members of the press holding valid press identification cards issued by the New York City Police Department or by others duly authorized in writing to engage in such activity by the authority." As D'Urso did not have a press pass or a written permit from the agency she was seeking to expose, this left her pretty much out in the cold - for the moment, at least. Exactly what else happened in that station remains a topic of some dispute. Words were exchanged. By the time the cop had finished writing, Angela D'Urso had three formal charges pending against her: Unauthorized Use of Photography, Noncompliance with a Lawful Order and Disorderly Conduct. What they added up to in practical terms was a $125 fine. D'Urso could have mailed in the money and quietly walked away. She decided to fight instead. The wheels of the justice system started turning - slowly, like they usually do. A hearing was scheduled at the Transit Adjudication Bureau. Written testimony was invited - and witnesses were called down. A woman named Della Cohen presided over the case. When all was said and done, Cohen didn't rip into the Transit Authority. She didn't rip into the cops. She considered all the evidence - or so she said, at least - and ripped into D'Urso but good. D'Urso's recollection, the hearing officer said, was "vague and lacked detail." The letters of support she got from various politicians "are all totally irrelevant and add nothing to the matter at hand." "I cannot credit her statements," the hearing officer declared. Cohen was all too happy to credit the version of the cops: that D'Urso had been loud and unruly, that she had caused a scene in the station, that she had obviously been taking photographs. The hearing officer's ruling: guilty as charged to disorderly conduct, $50 fine. But something happened before the hearing ever got started, something more important than whatever it was that occurred at 183rd Street. D'Urso started complaining. Loudly. Publicly. And in print. Top officials at the Transit Authority thought for a minute about this whole silly antiphoto rule - and recognized what an embarrassment it was. No one could even remember why it was there in the first place. Safety? Not really. Crowd control? Who knows? All anyone knew for sure was that it went back at least to the 1940s, and it got enforced every now and then. "Anyway," Caren Gardner, a spokeswoman for the Transit Authority was saying yesterday, "we have decided to declare a moratorium on enforcement of the rule." The process of actually eliminating it is a long and complicated one, involving several layers of the bureaucracy. Opinions have to be sought from the various Transit Authority departments. The board of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority has to vote. Comments from the public will be sought. And a special administrative-procedure form must be filed with the state. But the first step has now been taken. "Until further notice," Gardner said, "no one will be summonsed for taking pictures in the subway." And those two other charges against D'Urso were dropped. |
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Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban) |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Nov 26 15:22:31 2004, in response to Re: Vindicated! (Re: NYCTA moves forward with photo ban), posted by Dave on Fri Nov 26 14:58:39 2004.  Hey, Mr. Rocket Scientist..."Nazi" was short for "National Socialist." Yes but you are applying current meanings to the word "Socialism" Nazi Germany was indeed capitalistic in nature. There were corporations, and the government did business with those corporations. The government did not own very much outright ala the Soviet Union. Corporations could keep their profits. This was also discussed here earlier. |
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