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| Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today (1638792) | |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 31 12:19:14 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 31 11:01:14 2025. Once the miscreants found out what the QR code was used for they would be scraped, painted or otherwise obliterated by the vandals. |
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| (1638872) | |
Re: Further Possible Info...Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 31 12:20:22 2025, in response to Re: Further Possible Info...Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Railman718 on Fri Jan 31 10:42:37 2025. You are talking into a dead phone. Some here find facts too confusing. |
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| (1638873) | |
Re: Further Possible Info...Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Railman718 on Fri Jan 31 12:35:30 2025, in response to Re: Further Possible Info...Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 31 12:20:22 2025. Which is why most of us RTO folks talk about this place than post here.. Once in a while I’ll stick my head in that’s it… |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Further Possible Info...Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Railman718 on Fri Jan 31 12:37:39 2025, in response to Re: Further Possible Info...Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 31 12:16:39 2025. It’s one of them yeah…Funny thing is some of those “kids” a few old timers friended and looked out for have gotten older to be vandals and miscreants and the like… |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Fri Jan 31 12:40:36 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 31 07:48:45 2025. Are subway employees allowed to have cellphones?--Mark |
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Re: Further Possible Info...Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 31 12:48:15 2025, in response to Re: Further Possible Info...Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Railman718 on Fri Jan 31 12:37:39 2025. Yup ! |
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| (1638877) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 31 12:49:39 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Fri Jan 31 12:40:36 2025. YES although using them while operatiung a transit vehicle would likely be frowned upon |
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| (1638878) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 31 12:52:01 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Railman718 on Fri Jan 31 05:42:49 2025. I recall it well as I also recall the operatoor who recorded video of his girlfriend operating a train in service. Nimrod seems an inadequate description here! |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Railman718 on Fri Jan 31 13:11:31 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 31 12:49:39 2025. Frowned? Yer too kind that’s instant days in the street… |
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| (1638880) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Railman718 on Fri Jan 31 13:12:14 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 31 12:52:01 2025. Yep and sadly he lost his job over it… |
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| (1638881) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 31 13:23:12 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Railman718 on Fri Jan 31 13:12:14 2025. Well ther is a rule about letting others perform your assigned duties. This would seem to apply |
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| (1638882) | |
Re: Further Possible Info...Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 31 13:29:41 2025, in response to Re: Further Possible Info...Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Railman718 on Fri Jan 31 12:35:30 2025. A welcome sight to be sure. |
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| (1638883) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by zac on Fri Jan 31 18:51:55 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 31 11:11:24 2025. If there are still weak signals, strengthen them. Redundant servers are a must, redundant pathways too. Just hire a good corporate IT security team. There are industry best practices and procedures that can be followed. This isn't the wild west where some programmer just writes some code and puts it out there.But sure, arrest them too. That goes beyond just a simple prank. |
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| (1638885) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Bill West on Sat Feb 1 02:27:54 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by zac on Thu Jan 30 19:09:04 2025. Best practice in office environments is nothing to do with the practicalities of doing them in transportation environments.I have a 50+years experience estimating technology, its costs and most importantly its realities. Wishful thinking from the sidelines does not overrule experienced reality. Real time clocks -putting clocks in hundreds of fixed stations does not compare to putting private communication into thousands of moving subway cars You sound like you are reading online magazines/discussions/youtube and reasoning from the words in them. Try reasoning from the real world facts behind those words. IE describe the hardware needed, estimate (not guess) the costs. What's the time and manpower needed? How would the cost be justified up the line in a business that loses money heavily. I wired the internet in my house 25 years ago, DSL splitter, separate wiring to the modem, etc. Did you do that in that era? And when equipment aging or changes affect my service, I'm the tech support. Bill |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Feb 1 07:40:51 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 31 12:19:14 2025. Once the miscreants found out what the QR code was used for they would be scraped, painted or otherwise obliterated by the vandals.That's the reason for making it something that can be easily and inexpensively replaced. QR code stickers can also be used to record other operations like car inspections, etc. I noticed that the NTT cars have lots of barcode stickers on them that have not been scraped, painted or otherwise obliterated by the vandals. The big operational difference between the QR codes and barcodes is that barcodes are a convenient way to enter data, whereas the QR code can be used to initiate a transaction over the internet. The choice of which to use depends on how immediate the barcode or QR code scanning must be reported. Obviously, the need to check for an authorized train movement is more immediate than documenting the installation of a part (one barcode) into a car (another barcode). |
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| (1638887) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Feb 1 08:09:29 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Bill West on Sat Feb 1 02:27:54 2025. Real time clocks -putting clocks in hundreds of fixed stations does not compare to putting private communication into thousands of moving subway carsActually it does. First, the subway cars are not moving, when the login occurs. They are not moving. It's just that WiFi must be present in many locations. That's a different and less difficult problem than maintaining WiFi connection with from a moving vehicle. Second, real time clocks require synchronization with a universal time standard. This is now done via an internet connection to an NIST secondary standard using the ntp time server protocol. This is a lot easier than in the pre-internet days. That required an atomic time clock that could by synced to NIST's WWV radio signal. I wired the internet in my house 25 years ago, DSL splitter, separate wiring to the modem, etc. Did you do that in that era? Earlier and professionally. DSL splitter? Good grief! Were you using ethernet coax or token ring instead of 10 base T? No wonder such an installation required full time tech support. Any fault brought down the entire network and there was no way to isolate the fault without expensive equipment. Inexpensive switches and routers were available back then (and still are) to make 10 base T a better choice. |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Feb 1 08:10:49 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Feb 1 07:40:51 2025. So if the train could be moved after the inability to log on using the QR codes, of what value would it really be? |
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| (1638890) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Feb 1 12:35:29 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Train Dude on Sat Feb 1 08:10:49 2025. if the train could be moved after the inability to log on using the QR codes, of what value would it really be?I covered the reason for not preventing train motion without a successful login in a previous post. The two major reasons are: cost and difficulty in getting a train moving in case of malfunction. What the system can do is send alerts that there is an unauthorized train movement. The alert would indicate the car number. Operations would need to know the current location of all its cars to respond to the alert. This seems like a simple requirement but there's reason to believe NYCTA would find this difficult. The real time GTFS spec provides for a vehicle/train id field in tracking train movement. Updates occur every 30 seconds, when the train is moving. However, the NYCTA feeds do not use this field. They also change the trip and train id's, if there is a diversion. This makes it impossible to track trains, if there are service diversions. |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Feb 1 14:59:41 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Feb 1 12:35:29 2025. What the system can do is send alerts that there is an unauthorized train movement. The alert would indicate the car number.The system already does that. The dispatcher has a gap sheet that tells him what train is due in either direction. If, as in this case, they looked at the board, they would have seen unauthorized movement on F3 track. They could have tried to call the train by radio. Tripped the train at a home signal or at the very least, alerted the police. |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 1 17:07:42 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Feb 1 08:09:29 2025. Ahhh... WWV. My firdt adventure in home 'darkroom' color slide processing involved using my short wave to hear WWV ao that I could work in total darkness. Transit/rail content, that was 62 years ago when I had just bought a Niknon rangefinder and was actively shooting train pix. Still have the camera on a shelf. Still have the short wave radio... |
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| (1638895) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by zac on Sat Feb 1 22:06:31 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Bill West on Sat Feb 1 02:27:54 2025. Wow. Do you realize how much technology you hold in your hand with your phone? I could walk around Shanghai with a completely secure phone and not give it a second thought. You don't think they couldn't figure out how to have a sign on in the subway?Thousands of cars? How about billions? It is done as a matter of course these days. My own car knows me when I get into it, signs on, gets my music service, navigates to where I'm going. I was in corporate IT for 40 years. The real world seems to have passed you by. |
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| (1638896) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by zac on Sat Feb 1 22:09:29 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Train Dude on Sat Feb 1 14:59:41 2025. What you describe is the problem with the system. It is entirely manual. Sheets? Paper? The board? This is all easily automated. The NYC subway is completely antiquated. |
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| (1638912) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Feb 2 09:24:24 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by zac on Sat Feb 1 22:09:29 2025. So, in the previous scenario, an alert will be sent including the car number.Sent to whom? To do what? At some point, humans must be notified and take some action. What if the alert including the car number is ignored or slept through or not seen? I see little tangible benefit to reinventing this wheel. |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Handbrake on Sun Feb 2 17:04:13 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by zac on Thu Jan 30 09:56:28 2025. The use of an employee ID, or other physical electronic identification to enable operating controls in the cab could be one possible method to enforce identity check.Similar to DoD computers, where a CAC (Common Access Card) is placed into a PC to unlock the computer and to permit a log onto the network. This will eliminate the need of individual passwords that could be shared, and used by others. |
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| (1638938) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 2 20:55:05 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Train Dude on Sun Feb 2 09:24:24 2025. little tangible benefit to reinventing this wheelHow well did "this wheel" perform in the R train joy ride? The train's unauthorized movement wasn't detected at the time. The only reason NYCT detected the train's unauthorized movement was because it appeared in the press - well after the fact. The only indication NYCT had was evidence of a break in, when the crew reported to move the train the next day. |
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| (1638955) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon Feb 3 06:00:34 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by zac on Sat Feb 1 22:09:29 2025. What you describe is the problem with the system. It is entirely manual.In certain areas like that yes in other areas once that train moved it would have ben noticed even quicker.. Oh and in certain areas those nimrods wouldn't be able to move it the Computer wouldn't allow it. Sheets? Paper? The board? This is all easily automated. It is...Train movement and crews are tracked by Computer they only use sheets or paper if the system is down... The NYC subway is completely antiquated. The computer system they use could be updated yes.. |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Feb 3 07:49:11 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 2 20:55:05 2025. I am not disagreeing that the outcome was poor, that the available data was not noted and the unauthorized movement was not detected. I'm questioning the amount of technology necessary to correct the failings. For the record, later this month, I will be entering my 15th year of retirement and non-involvement in the system so my knowledge of "current" procedures are obviously somewhat antiquated. For that I apologize. |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by B1bus on Mon Feb 3 20:48:35 2025, in response to Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Steamdriven on Mon Jan 27 21:26:37 2025. On todays news, 2 of the teens were caught. |
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| (1638977) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Feb 3 21:56:39 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by B1bus on Mon Feb 3 20:48:35 2025. Excellent |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 4 13:10:43 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by B1bus on Mon Feb 3 20:48:35 2025. Did it happen in Brooklyn or Queens. In one story i saw published online it apparently happened in both boros. 😆 |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Feb 4 13:38:59 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 4 13:10:43 2025. It was in Brooklyn on F3 track 4th ave just north of 59th street… |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 4 16:26:40 2025, in response to Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Steamdriven on Mon Jan 27 21:26:37 2025. Someone in that gang knew how to drive a subway train. You don't pick that up watching Sesame Street. (Hat Tip Lt. Zachary Garber) |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Clayton on Tue Feb 4 16:33:27 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Handbrake on Sun Feb 2 17:04:13 2025. 100% agree. It certainly would be interesting to investigate what, if any, additional data could be sent through the CBTC network to NYCT's employee access control system. |
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| (1639005) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Feb 4 18:59:30 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 4 16:26:40 2025. Very true. |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by B1bus on Tue Feb 4 20:23:54 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 4 13:10:43 2025. News report said Brooklyn. |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Feb 5 02:26:42 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by B1bus on Tue Feb 4 20:23:54 2025. The problem is that certain people aren't familiar enough with NYCTA service patterns. While the incident took place in Bkln, that train was a putin for N/B R service to Ctl and went out of service upon arrival thereto correct that vandalism that was done to the train. The spray painting of the security cams was not enough to keep the train from making the 1/2 trip from Bkln to Queens. |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Feb 5 09:01:04 2025, in response to Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Steamdriven on Mon Jan 27 21:26:37 2025. A fitting end to this story, the 3 shits have been arrested and charged with Reckless Endangerment, a felony, among other charges. Sadly, the parents of the 15 year old were not charged but leave us hope that these charges will not be plea bargained away. Send the message loud and clear. |
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| (1639020) | |
Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Feb 5 09:01:05 2025, in response to Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Steamdriven on Mon Jan 27 21:26:37 2025. A fitting end to this story, the 3 shits have been arrested and charged with Reckless Endangerment, a felony, among other charges. Sadly, the parents of the 15 year old were not charged but leave us hope that these charges will not be plea bargained away. Send the message loud and clear. |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Feb 5 09:02:38 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Train Dude on Wed Feb 5 09:01:04 2025. Got to get the other three Mitches now I bet they hiding… |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by GonzoUSN on Wed Feb 5 09:32:16 2025, in response to Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Steamdriven on Mon Jan 27 21:26:37 2025. My question is how did these kids get the equipment to operate the train? |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Feb 5 12:31:51 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by GonzoUSN on Wed Feb 5 09:32:16 2025. Steal them by breaking into cabs. Maybe the t/o left his cab to investigate something pertaining to the train, or break into a cab while the c/r has his head outside the window at a station.They will steal their bags with all their things inside. |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 6 03:40:26 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Feb 5 12:31:51 2025. If the T/O had to leave the cab to investigate, he would either have had to leave the operating key inserted in the operating position or if not needed the T/O would have taken it. We old time MOTORMEN on SMEE equipment would sometimes have to leave the reverser thrown but would place the brake valve in charge topside down and take the brake handle with us. It was even easier on prewar equipment since after “topsiding" the brake valve we could take the brake handle, reverser and brake plug with us. |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by B1bus on Fri Feb 7 21:11:51 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by randyo on Wed Feb 5 02:26:42 2025. A 3rd teen got arrested yesturday. |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Fri Feb 7 22:06:56 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Train Dude on Mon Feb 3 21:56:39 2025. Excellent? Braggman will release them with train operator uniforms so they can do it again . |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by b/p rupture on Sat Feb 8 19:15:47 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by Railman718 on Fri Jan 31 13:12:14 2025. TD: "I recall it well as I also recall the operatoor who recorded video of his girlfriend operating a train in service."RM718:"Yep and sadly he lost his job over it…" Sadly? sounds well deserved, how much did he value the job and pension? Apparently not very much. Even doing it on a "lite" train is unacceptable. |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Feb 8 21:09:48 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by b/p rupture on Sat Feb 8 19:15:47 2025. Its not all that rare. Ive known several instances where girlfriends run trains (of course with their boyfriend nearby) |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Feb 8 21:22:09 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by b/p rupture on Sat Feb 8 19:15:47 2025. I have to agree! In NYCT, absent of drug or alcohol use, you have to work very hard to lose your job. This guy seemed to go the extra mile. |
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Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Feb 9 08:30:35 2025, in response to Re: Report of R train taken for joyride today, posted by b/p rupture on Sat Feb 8 19:15:47 2025. How much did he value the job and pension?Stiff wood doesn't have a conscience or fully developed frontal lobes. 
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