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| Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle (1261217) | |
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| (1262122) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 17:17:54 2013, in response to A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Dec 3 17:10:18 2013. The Governor has already said he will not be driving a train any time soon. |
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| (1262124) | |
Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Dec 3 17:21:15 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Dec 3 10:02:30 2013. CAPS LOCK eh !Using tunnelrat's keyboard ? :) Bill Newkirk |
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| (1262125) | |
Re: (2 MTA videos on the recovery) Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment |
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Posted by kew gardens teleport on Tue Dec 3 17:21:48 2013, in response to (2 MTA videos on the recovery) Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Dec 3 01:54:57 2013. Thanks. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1262128) | |
Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Dec 3 17:24:15 2013, in response to Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sun Dec 1 21:48:05 2013. Maybe they were old enough to remember steam push-pull trains where you had to have an engineer at both ends. (and maybe a fireman or signalman in the cab) :p |
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| (1262137) | |
Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Dec 3 17:44:14 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 3 08:55:05 2013. Coffee and caffeine can only do so much unless you had an IV drip of the stuff. And a person can get acclimated to it too. |
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| (1262144) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Orion in Chains on Tue Dec 3 17:59:46 2013, in response to A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Dec 3 17:10:18 2013. Right on TMP! |
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| (1262145) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 3 18:04:10 2013, in response to Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 17:17:54 2013. Neither will the governor. |
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| (1262156) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by blue8irt on Tue Dec 3 18:54:59 2013, in response to A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Dec 3 17:10:18 2013. The media is too quick on the draw. Every time something like this happens, wrong information makes it's way to ears that do not know what to do with the information. Time has to pass as the authorities do their work. No one would like it if Mr. Rockefeller were wrongly accused. |
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| (1262164) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Dec 3 19:13:35 2013, in response to A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Dec 3 17:10:18 2013. Well said Paul. I've been making that point myself.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1262171) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 3 19:29:35 2013, in response to A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Dec 3 17:10:18 2013. My sympathies for all the crap people have said in the papers. Some of the comments to articles are even more horrendous than the articles themselves.But I would like to defend speculation for a minute. Not blame, just speculation. Questions like "If the engineer fell asleep, how could technology have prevented the accident?" are interesting questions. Or "How can brakes have a complete failure?" None of this is meant to assign blame; it's just to satisfy curiosity. |
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| (1262173) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by trains61 on Tue Dec 3 19:31:23 2013, in response to A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Dec 3 17:10:18 2013. Different industry. Same Sentiment. |
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| (1262177) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 3 19:42:43 2013, in response to A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Dec 3 17:10:18 2013. Your point is well taken but would be more genuine if you also mentioned the so called experts here who were so eager to blame the equipment and or maintenance without any facts at all.I remember the Williamsburg Bridge incident quite clearly. Before the dust had settled, one of my closest friends, who was in charge of the maintenance of those cars, was up on the bridge, watching as the brake valve and trip cocks were removed from the involved car. Waiting until the pneumatic shop did its best to get either device to fail or even to hiccup. Good investigation of such incidents begins with no pre-conceived agendas but all investigators have hunches and intuition about such accidents. Yet they should leave no stone unturned. I'm sorry that your friend finds himself in the situation that he's in but 4 people are dead and 60 more were hurt and the evidence will go where it goes, the cause will be found and blame will be fixed and apportioned. Hopefully but doubtfully, this will be the last time we discuss such events. |
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| (1262183) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by bklynsubwaybob on Tue Dec 3 20:06:36 2013, in response to A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Dec 3 17:10:18 2013. God bless you, Paul. I was once in a situation back in the late '70s with R46 cars in CIY. It involved a collision with a bumping block at Tower A. I was accused of being reckless and incompetent. It turned out of be a computerized failure and I was exonerated of any wrong-doing. All should wait until all the facts are in.Bob |
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| (1262184) | |
Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side |
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Posted by bklynsubwaybob on Tue Dec 3 20:08:53 2013, in response to Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side, posted by bklynsubwaybob on Sun Dec 1 20:10:27 2013. No. R46 cars. |
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| (1262186) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by j trainloco on Tue Dec 3 20:14:29 2013, in response to A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Dec 3 17:10:18 2013. This is an excellent post. Too often, public officials, the media and the court of public opinion want to paint things as all wrong, or all right. Human error caused the accident? Then he must be a bad person. That's not how it works.Unfortunately though... 4 people have died, and numerous other people have had their lives completely changed. Someone will be held accountable for that. |
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| (1262188) | |
Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 3 20:18:40 2013, in response to Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side, posted by bklynsubwaybob on Tue Dec 3 20:08:53 2013. I suspect that your incident did not involve a stuck float valve or sabotage. |
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| (1262189) | |
Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Dec 3 20:27:25 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 3 09:58:16 2013. Yup. As an "upstate driver" I had to learn to slow the hell down before exiting NYC highways.Meanwhile, "downstate drivers" need to speed the hell up on the Thruway and stop slowing down the right lane just for their petty exiting needs. |
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| (1262193) | |
Re: (2 MTA videos on the recovery) Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Dec 3 20:54:14 2013, in response to (2 MTA videos on the recovery) Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Gold_12th on Tue Dec 3 01:54:57 2013. Excellent coverage - thanks for posting!-w- |
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| (1262194) | |
Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 3 21:03:09 2013, in response to Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side, posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 3 20:18:40 2013. Your concern for the crew and pax has been duly noted. |
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| (1262195) | |
Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 3 21:06:11 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Dec 3 20:27:25 2013. Heh. Which is why those of us up here have perfected the "stay in the far left lane and then jump across all the other lanes to the exit in 500 feet" move. :) |
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| (1262197) | |
Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 3 21:13:11 2013, in response to Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 3 21:03:09 2013. Much as your concern for the truth has been duly noted. What does suppressing the truth do for the passengers and crew? |
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| (1262199) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Dec 3 21:14:56 2013, in response to A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Dec 3 17:10:18 2013. Well said Paul! I almost lost my voice in screaming at my TV when a channel 5 reporter said that the NTSB & FRA are at the site of the accident measuring skid marks made by the wreck!! Amazing.I retreat to the scriptures: Father forgive them, for they know not what they do (or say, or of what they report upon). ...and the unwashed masses that take these reports as gospel...scary indeed. BTW I don't think anyone reported that this is the first accident involving passengers that resulted in a fatality in the 31 yrs of Metro-Norths' existance. That dosen't lessen the gravity of what happened or ease any pain of the injured or families, but 31yrs of hauling millions from point A to point B safely is an issue that cannot be ignored, IMO of course |
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| (1262202) | |
Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Dec 3 21:20:27 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Dec 3 07:12:12 2013. Isn't MNR >45(clear), 45, 30, 20? |
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| (1262210) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by piyer on Tue Dec 3 21:39:15 2013, in response to A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Dec 3 17:10:18 2013. Well said, Paul.The factual errors of WNBC's reporting (my station of choice on Sunday) were driving me mad. Heck, they couldn't even get the train's destination right: they kept calling it Grand Central Station. And let's not even talk about their lack of knowledge of push-pull trains and which end they are operated from. ~_~ I am sorry that your friend finds himself in this situation. Even without the questions surrounding his actions, living through such a wreck is a weighty burden for any "driver" (be it car, bus, train, plane, etc.). My heart goes out to him. ~AJK |
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| (1262221) | |
Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Dec 3 22:13:26 2013, in response to Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side, posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Dec 3 17:24:15 2013. German railroad actually had servo controlled steam engines in push pull, only person engine was fireman. |
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| (1262225) | |
Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Dec 3 22:29:25 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Charles G on Tue Dec 3 10:41:55 2013. Still hard to imagine he would be in a deep sleep and still be able to keep the "dead man" from activating.You don't have to be in a deep sleep, it's possible to doze just enough that you lose track of your surroundings, but still awake enough that your muscles haven't relaxed and you slump over. You'd have to be pretty tired for that to happen though, for more than a moment or 2. Could be that it happened at exactly the wrong time. |
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| (1262234) | |
Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment |
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Posted by Train2104 on Tue Dec 3 23:12:02 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by 3-9 on Tue Dec 3 22:29:25 2013. |
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| (1262240) | |
Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Dec 3 23:51:40 2013, in response to Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Dec 3 22:13:26 2013. I think SNCF used those ex-Germany sets on Banlieu-Est and later on what became the Eastern part of RER A till the end of steam. From what I read a long time ago, SNCF engineers in the cab didn't directly controlled the engine even though possible. |
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| (1262245) | |
Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Dec 4 01:07:12 2013, in response to Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Dec 1 23:01:28 2013. A lot of these people probably almost never use public transportation and because of that are likely ignorant on such things. |
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| (1262246) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Dec 4 01:19:50 2013, in response to Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by blue8irt on Tue Dec 3 18:54:59 2013. The problem is, much of the media wants (or needs) quick answers to satisfy a general public whose attention span has gotten shorter and shorter in recent years. A lot of times, they want stuff rushed in order to satisfy their deadlines. |
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| (1262247) | |
PTC-preventable was Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Dec 4 01:21:36 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Dec 3 08:36:10 2013. While Rockefeller was at the controls, the ultimate fault for this accident lies clearly in the hands of MN. The fact of the matter is that humans mess up. Everyone who drives a car regularly has zoned out and lost a sense of where they were or where they were going, or how fast, etc. For trains, the system shouldn't allow humans messing up to cause a wreck. This was an entirely PTC-preventable accident. Given that MN could have installed PTC 13-14 years ago along with Amtrak, this is simply negligence on MN's part. PTC is a simple and obvious safety enhancement. There are a number of commuter lines that haven't installed PTC and should have. MN just got unlucky. The fact of the matter is that an accident like this was bound to happen eventually without PTC. It's sad that they didn't implement PTC when it was proven to work by Amtrak, and then again dragged their feet on the 2008 mandate for a whole 5 years, and as a result, 4 people are dead, and others are injured/traumatized, not to mention the mess of shutting the line down for several days for passenger and freight and the cleanup cost. The management of MN has blood on their hands, and they should pay for it. Rockefeller was unfortunately just the unlucky guy who zoned out at the wrong place and the wrong time. |
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| (1262248) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Dec 4 01:23:37 2013, in response to Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by bklynsubwaybob on Tue Dec 3 20:06:36 2013. Absolutely:Problem is, today we have a 24-hour news cycle and people with shorter attention spans than ever that want decisions and other things made NOW, in some cases long before they realistically can be done. |
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| (1262250) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Dec 4 01:25:00 2013, in response to Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by j trainloco on Tue Dec 3 20:14:29 2013. Someone will likely be held accountable, and a lot of the problem is, people have much shorter attention spans than in years past and want answers NOW, well before in some cases they can realistically get the necessary answers. |
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| (1262251) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Dec 4 01:25:33 2013, in response to A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Dec 3 17:10:18 2013. Well said. However, there is one thing no one on this board (or in the media) has mentioned yet. I've been wondering about it. Metro-North, earlier this year, made considerable increases in the number of revenue trains it runs, even on weekends. To the best of my knowledge, these additional trains were put on the various schedules without a corresponding increase in personnel or equipment. That is to say, MNRR hasn't made any big new purchases of rolling stock (other than the CDOT M-8 class). Are the crews working longer hours?I wonder if this factor had any impact on the train wreck, perhaps placing more pressure on train crews to arrive on time, so equipment arriving at a terminal can make another trip, on a tighter schedule than before. Shorter turnaround windows might have caused the engineer to operate his train a bit faster, and, possibly being tired, and having allegedly "zoned out", reached the point of no recovery before his attempt to put the train in the hole could have any effect. Just something I was pondering...thoughts? |
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| (1262254) | |
Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Bill West on Wed Dec 4 01:46:53 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 08:55:11 2013. Joe -there's nothing uncivil about noting the past punishment meted out in another job where people's lives are at stake. So did Olog make an uncivil post or did you over read it and thus yours is the uncivil post?Streetcarman1 -I looked for the meaningful points in your posts but after removing the caps and emotion I couldn't find any. Gentlemen, figuratively screaming at someone you disagree with is not nearly effective as objectively disassembling their points. In fact the latter will avoid leaving your opponent openings with which to rebut you and maybe even avoid adopting a weak position in the first place. So may I urge you to count to 10 before you compose, let alone hit the post button. Thank you, Bill |
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| (1262257) | |
Re: PTC-preventable was Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Dec 4 02:11:07 2013, in response to PTC-preventable was Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Dec 4 01:21:36 2013. the ultimate fault for this accident lies clearly in the hands of MNI don't think that's clear at all. Just because MN didn't install the latest control systems doesn't make them liable. Hell, if you want MN to make the trains really safe, why not just have them all run at 25-30 MPH the whole way? |
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| (1262268) | |
Re: PTC-preventable was Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Dec 4 04:25:19 2013, in response to PTC-preventable was Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Dec 4 01:21:36 2013. Amtrak only put PTC on its high speed system, not rest of railroad.Metro North has been installing PTC for 5 years now with a completion date around end of 2015. its not just plug and play, besides the M-8's who were ordered with ACSES over 550 cars and engines need to be modified with ACSES system. Entire signal system needs to be rewired and rezoned. |
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| (1262271) | |
Re: PTC-preventable? was Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 4 04:38:55 2013, in response to Re: PTC-preventable was Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by 3-9 on Wed Dec 4 02:11:07 2013. Subway trains are not necessarily safe at that speed. |
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| (1262272) | |
Re: PTC-preventable? was Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 4 04:39:12 2013, in response to PTC-preventable was Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Dec 4 01:21:36 2013. Yeah, personal responsibility be damned. Not to mention that PTC is built by humans too. WWYBYWB? |
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| (1262273) | |
Re: PTC-preventable? was Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 4 04:39:21 2013, in response to PTC-preventable was Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Dec 4 01:21:36 2013. While Rockefeller was at the controls, the ultimate fault for this accident lies clearly in the hands of MNYeah, personal responsibility be damned. Not to mention that PTC is built by humans too. WWYBYWB? |
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| (1262286) | |
Re: PTC-preventable? was Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Dec 4 07:04:41 2013, in response to Re: PTC-preventable? was Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 4 04:38:55 2013. True, but in the case of MN, there are very few curves on which the trains would derail. |
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| (1262287) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Dec 4 07:05:11 2013, in response to A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Dec 3 17:10:18 2013. Without a doubt, no one should be personally blamed until we know for a fact what really happened. |
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| (1262293) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 4 07:41:21 2013, in response to A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Dec 3 17:10:18 2013. Huh? Who's saying it is criminal?But as far as the blame, if the reports are true that he admitted to being inattentive, then he is to blame. Of course it was unintentional and was an accident, but his inventiveness would be to blame, would it not? So in those two regards, I think your rant is a little ridiculous and unwarranted. I haven't read ALL the news stories but many that I did read were sure to point out that he has an unblemished record, many years of experience, and is considered a good guy and engineer by his friends and peers. BTW I don't think Schumer is a great person to quote on this matter. |
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Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Wed Dec 4 08:10:02 2013, in response to Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 3 19:42:43 2013. I was curious as to why they initially leaked out brake failure and now evidence seems to fit the scenario, 5 to 6 seconds of initial emergency braking prior to, one event of over speed for what seemed as an uneventful trip by a very otherwise very good engineer, one who qualified newbies and broke in two very good friends of mine. I'm sort of pissed NTSB is barring his union representation from being at his second interview this morning. Maybe head injuries and Zanex negated the initial brake claim statement, I don't know, probably what I would say. Having worked at NYCT doing some work trains "asked" from 14 to 16 hours, fatigue is always on my mind as I get older. Being the same age as Engineer Rockefeller, it hits very close to home for me. This happens to car drivers at a rate people don't understand. Some don't even realize they are driving sleepy until they wake up wrapped around a tree. Working afternoons, I rarely encountered these scenarios but working RDOs on other time zones like early A.M.s or midnights, it requires extra attention and lots of coffee or pouring cold water down my neck and shirt to get through them. You can get all the sleep possible and still go into those Circadian rhythm disorder scenarios, highly likely for those working the lists. My prayers go out to the families affected by this tragic turn of events and hope it don't happen again or at least the next time it is caught a few seconds earlier. It is extreme luck the train went into emergency at all. 6 more seconds of hang time would have put that 6222 into the drink instead of the river bank. |
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| (1262315) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Dec 4 09:19:02 2013, in response to Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 4 07:41:21 2013. but his inventiveness would be to blame, would it not?Huh? What did the engineer in this case "invent"? |
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Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 4 09:22:49 2013, in response to Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Dec 4 09:19:02 2013. inattentiveness |
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| (1262320) | |
Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 4 09:33:50 2013, in response to Re: A Little Perspective Of Things.....Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Dec 4 09:19:02 2013. Cell phone user/machine input error. As AlM pointed out, it should have said inattentiveness. |
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Re: On Track 2? |
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Posted by Joe on Wed Dec 4 09:41:07 2013, in response to Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sun Dec 1 07:55:15 2013. Am I correct in thinking that the train was on Track 2 when it boarded passengers at Tarrytown and stayed on Track 2 until it derailed?Thanks. |
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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Dec 4 09:48:02 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Bill West on Wed Dec 4 01:46:53 2013. Post of the week. |
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Re: PTC-preventable? was Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Dec 4 10:22:19 2013, in response to Re: PTC-preventable? was Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 4 04:39:21 2013. PTC is built by humans but set up to fail so that the train stops. The fact of the matter is that humans fail, and without PTC, an accident like Chatsworth or this can and will happen. Hopefully there isn't one before the 2015 deadline, or if there is, it isn't fatal. If PTC had been installed on MN in 2000 alongside Amtrak's installation, those four people would be alive today. Given that we are soon to have driverless cars, and airplanes can already land themselves, it seems that trains should be the low hanging fruit for taking human error out of the safety equation, since the technology already exists to do so. |
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