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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by renee gil on Thu Jun 6 02:30:24 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Thu Jun 6 02:24:31 2013.

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1983

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 6 07:26:15 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by renee gil on Thu Jun 6 00:25:26 2013.

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At one point, they were all mothballed, stored near Livonia.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by renee gil on Thu Jun 6 07:26:41 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 5 15:58:48 2013.

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Unfortunately the last run seems to have slipped under the railfan radar and no one, to my knowledge has recorded the last run and the equipment involved. Please let me know if you have this info.


I think (not really 100% sure on this) the last run of the R16 date may be Monday, June 15th, 1987 on the M line. Sorry, I don't have the entire consist (my memory is very vague on this), but 6337 was on the south motor, and 6328 on the north motor.



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(1227051)

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by renee gil on Thu Jun 6 07:28:10 2013, in response to Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 13:43:24 2013.

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nice pic! 1987-88ish?

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(1227053)

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by renee gil on Thu Jun 6 07:37:25 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 15:45:42 2013.

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What about the R16's?

On or around the date of June 15th, 1987.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by Neil Feldman on Thu Jun 6 07:44:07 2013, in response to Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 13:43:24 2013.

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Because the R16 was a so called "Basket Case" as noted in Grellers NYC Subway Car Book being that they were so break down prone, and half it's fleet was retired prematurely (6400 series cars)!

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by renee gil on Thu Jun 6 07:44:42 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 5 16:13:45 2013.

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My last ride on an R-16 was on the M exactly 2 months later, on June 15, 1987 between Metropolitan Avenue and Myrtle/Broadway.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Jun 6 11:11:56 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by renee gil on Thu Jun 6 07:26:41 2013.

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I think (not really 100% sure on this) the last run of the R16 date may be Monday, June 15th, 1987 on the M line. Sorry, I don't have the entire consist (my memory is very vague on this), but 6337 was on the south motor, and 6328 on the north motor.

You may very well have ridden the last run of the R-16's. Several years ago I did receive a post from a motorman who states that he took a train out of the Fresh Pond Yard. He says that the R-16's had not been used for a couple of weeks but that a gap developed in the service and the yardmaster ordered him to take out one of the R-16 trains that was in storage there and operate over the M Line. He believes that this was the last time the R-16's ever ran in service. Your information collaborates his story. So I would like to add it to "The Book of Last Runs."

Larry, RedbirdR33


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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Jun 6 11:23:33 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by renee gil on Thu Jun 6 07:26:41 2013.

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Renee: By checking back to an old sub-talk post (1999) that I made I find that the R-16's were ordered out of service on June 26, 1987. This doesn't mean that they actually ran up until that date. I think that your ride on June 15, 1987 may well have been the last.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by CJ on Thu Jun 6 11:39:04 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Neil Feldman on Thu Jun 6 07:44:07 2013.

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I read the 6400s (GE cars) were the worst of the R16s. The Westinghouse cars (6300s) fared better (depends on if anyone wants to call those R16s better. For some they were terrible all around).

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 6 12:46:13 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 5 16:13:45 2013.

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oh yeah..the TA interlined the Nassau 4th avenue specials with the M when it was moved to 95th st for a short while..then over to Bay Pkwy/9th Av..

use to wonder why there were R27/30 on the Bway-Myrtle Els marked with a yellow R signal..

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by John from Glendale on Thu Jun 6 13:16:53 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by renee gil on Thu Jun 6 00:24:46 2013.

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Your memory is fine! I was the T/O on that trip. We ran in service to Broadway-Myrtle, and went back to Metropolitan light, because service had finally resumed. I don't remember the cause of the service disruption, or who put the train in the yard when we got back. Don't have the entire consist either, I only kept a record of my operating cars, and you're right about those. Sorry shape? Right about that, too!

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 6 14:38:28 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by renee gil on Thu Jun 6 00:24:46 2013.

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I had a similar experience on an R16 in 11/86 at the height of the morning rush. The consist came into Metro, An R27 was set to leave on the other track, but because the switch froze, it couldn't cross over. The R16 was then set to leave, but some mechanical issue prevented it. The t/o actually went down on the track to inspect the train. Things began backing up, as the good train couldn't run due to the bad switch, and the R16 on the good track couldn't run period. The problem was identified at the north end of the train, so the decision was made to cut out the front 4 cars to run as a shuttle to Myrtle. All this took 20 or so minutes, so when the train finally left, it was crush loaded out of Fresh Pond. When the train got to Chauncey, there was an electrical explosion and the train totally died. I ended up walking to Myrtle/Broadway.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 6 14:39:09 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by CJ on Thu Jun 6 11:39:04 2013.

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They yanked the last 6400's off the J in 1983, as soon as all the R44 and R46's were back on the road.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 6 14:49:51 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 6 12:46:13 2013.

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When the N and R exchanged terminals in Queens in May 1987 that swapping stopped. Those yellow R trains on the Broadway el ran exclusively on the Nassau St part of the road. Since there could be no more interchanging of consists (R trains now used 600' trains exclusively) everything leaving 95th St had to come from ENY. This led to most of the AM rush seeing trains signed as R leaving Metropolitan Ave for Manhattan and M trains from Bay Parkway being put-ins from Coney Island. It was one of those weird service patterns you never saw on a map. In the AM, there were only 2 southbound runs that ran down the West End line, one to Bay Parkway (which always used a redbird) and one which ran thru to CI and went OOS (which always used an R27). This glut of Nassau St trains is what probably led the MTA to eliminate the diamond R entirely in November 1987, streamlining all the services.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jun 6 14:50:37 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 6 14:38:28 2013.

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Sounds like R16's alright. :(

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Jun 6 14:54:07 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by mcorivervsaf on Wed Jun 5 18:15:25 2013.

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Yep--Die Hard with a Vengeance*, Money Train, probably some others.

*-R-30s on the 3, ROFL :)

Probably related to that filming, some time in the mid-90s, I was driving north of downtown L. A., near where all the railyards are, and I saw a couple of sets of R-30s sitting on a track. Alas, I did not have a camera with me at the time. I wasn't able to return until a few weeks later, and of course they were gone :(

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Jun 6 14:59:33 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 5 14:14:29 2013.

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And the kinda-sorta stainless R38s. How long did they last?


43 years? (1966-2009?)



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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Jun 6 15:03:55 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 15:41:32 2013.

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Yep, I saw one for the last time in July 1991, across the platform at one of the Fulton St express stops from my A (R-44). Didn't come back to NYC for 3 years, and by that time (June 1994) they were gone. I saw two NYC icons for the last time during that 1991 visit: R-30s and GMC Flshbowls (Blitzed). Unlike the 30s, I did ride some 'bowls during that visit, including a 5000 (TDH-5303!) on the M15. I don't care about not riding the 30s, turth be known, I hated those cars, though they did look nice in Redbird colors. So my last ride on one would've been in 1976 before I moved to So. California

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jun 6 15:12:21 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Jun 6 14:54:07 2013.

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Somebody did take pictures of them out there. Saw it here somewhere a few years ago ...

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by CJ on Thu Jun 6 15:57:28 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 6 14:39:09 2013.

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I bet many were glad to see those 6400s go. It's unfortunate the WH R16s were not repainted like the R10s were. Last year I always wished one would pull up to the station. :P I guess any chance of that happening will be via a fantrip.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 6 16:27:36 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 6 14:38:28 2013.

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"when the train got to Chauncey..."

huh?

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Jun 6 19:28:23 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 6 16:27:36 2013.

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Yeah!

Maybe he meant "Central"?

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 6 19:52:13 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by CJ on Thu Jun 6 15:57:28 2013.

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Why was it the R16's were exploding until 1987, yet the R10, 7 years their elder, were not ?

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by CJ on Thu Jun 6 20:24:49 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 6 19:52:13 2013.

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That's something I've been trying to figure out for years. R16s were built by ACF. The R10s (also built by ACF) were successful, yet when it comes to the R16s they flopped. Yet when it comes to the R26s and R28s they ran well until 2002. We may never know.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jun 6 20:33:10 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by CJ on Thu Jun 6 20:24:49 2013.

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GE for one, enclosing the grids underneath in a shroud with the motor-generator set blowing on them with a worthless fan. Track grease, steel dust accumulating in there, plus lots of other underpowered things. The GE's were a mess. Same stuff worked just fine in R17's ... go figger.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 6 20:46:08 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 6 16:27:36 2013.

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Central.



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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Thu Jun 6 23:09:33 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by CJ on Thu Jun 6 20:24:49 2013.

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I think the thing is with the R16s is that they suffered from little or no maintenance. The R17s OTOH were better maintained and didn't have many of the same problems. The also had better door operators, while the R16/27/30 cars had door operators from National Pneumatic.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Thu Jun 6 23:24:26 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Neil Feldman on Thu Jun 6 07:44:07 2013.

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So basically it was the Chevy Vega of subway cars...

I have actually seen a Pinto or two floating around - but been years since I have seen a Vega!

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by CJ on Thu Jun 6 23:35:00 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jun 6 20:33:10 2013.

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That explains the issues with the GEs. That was a bad move for GE.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by CJ on Thu Jun 6 23:39:33 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Thu Jun 6 23:09:33 2013.

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Where the R16s were assigned (BMT Eastern Division), the trains weren't maintained at all by that point. If anything they should of assigned the R16s to the IND and they would been fine for the most part.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 6 23:46:31 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jun 6 20:33:10 2013.

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The Lexington Ave cars got more TLC than those assigned to ENY. The R17 performed better because it had to.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 00:47:20 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Thu Jun 6 23:24:26 2013.

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More like one of these ...


Except they forgot to put hand warmers on the anticlimbers to make pushing them easier. :)

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 00:49:11 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by CJ on Thu Jun 6 23:35:00 2013.

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They thought it was a clever idea. Grids get very hot when wrapping up and dynamic braking. Fans on them was supposed to make them last longer. Enclosures around it all ensured that the air would go only where you wanted it. OK, so nobody thought about what might happen when that closed environment got all gummed up with crap. Engineers have white shirts. Motorpeople didn't. :)

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 00:50:22 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by CJ on Thu Jun 6 23:39:33 2013.

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Nah ... they would have crapped out over there too. :)

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 00:52:37 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 6 23:46:31 2013.

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It was also smaller, a bit lighter, and probably gummed up faster than the 16's given that they were underground in the schmutz longer. So they probably got cleaned up more. But seriously, for the same design, somehow when the 17 order came in, they already saw enough stupid with the 16's and didn't repeat a lot of the same mistakes.

version 1.0 of anything always sucks.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 01:14:54 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by John from Glendale on Thu Jun 6 13:16:53 2013.

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yup I was on that exact same trip

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by CJ on Fri Jun 7 01:16:49 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 00:50:22 2013.

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We may never know. I don't know how they performed on the A when they were assigned there back in 1956.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 01:17:40 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Jun 6 11:11:56 2013.

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I was on the M line that day along with John from Glendale. I was on that train to Broadway-Myrtle. Seats and rollsigns were missing. A real mess.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 01:21:15 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by John from Glendale on Thu Jun 6 13:16:53 2013.

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for some i tend to only remember the car numbers from the 1st and last cars of a train, that's how i remember those car numbers from that R16 i was on that day.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 01:29:44 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 15:45:42 2013.

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I remember the R-16 (M)'s laid up on the West End El center track in 1986-87.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 01:30:17 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by CJ on Fri Jun 7 01:16:49 2013.

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They supposedly worked for a while, or the teeyay would have wanted its money back. :)

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 01:32:13 2013, in response to Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 13:43:24 2013.

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I rode a mixed set (4 R16 + 4 R27/30) J train back in November 1984.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 01:35:30 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 6 14:49:51 2013.

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R46's disappeared from the (N) in November of 1987, at virtually the same time the brown was eliminated and 4th Ave/Nassau St. service was simplified (i.e. cut). I recall seeing the R68 F train many times after the (N)/R swap. R16's did regularly swap between Broadway and Nassau St, I rode one Nassau St. RR from Metropolitan Ave to 95th St and then to Queensboro Plaza in October 1986.

As far as signage went, the R46's already had (N) to Astoria and R to Forest Hills signage installed well before the swap. The last round of signs were installed in late 1988 in time for the Archer Ave. opening.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 01:40:26 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 5 15:58:48 2013.

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the (J) ran at least 9 sets of the R16s back in '84.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 01:46:27 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Jun 6 11:11:56 2013.

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Several years ago I did receive a post from a motorman who states that he took a train out of the Fresh Pond Yard.

that will be John from Glendale.

He says that the R-16's had not been used for a couple of weeks but that a gap developed in the service and the yardmaster ordered him to take out one of the R-16 trains that was in storage there and operate over the M Line.

yup I've seen those same R-16's stored at Fresh Pond Yard as well.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by randyo on Fri Jun 7 02:24:13 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 00:52:37 2013.

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All the IRT cars from the 17 through 22 had the same GE motor control package and they all seemed to function better than the R-16s. However, for some reason, the oldest of the 17 through 22 group, the R-17s outlasted the later models.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by randyo on Fri Jun 7 02:29:52 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Thu Jun 6 23:09:33 2013.

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The R-27s actually had Consolidated Car Heating Co door operators like the R-17s through 22s and even the 26s and 28s while the R-30s had the N/P door equipment. As a C/R I operated both kinds but didn't really like the N/Ps because it always seemed I needed a sledge hammer to activate the door control buttons which weren't as sensitive as the Consolidateds. Later car ordered had door equipment from the Vapor Car Heating Co which I believe took over one of the other manufacturers but I don't know which one.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by Flxible Metro on Fri Jun 7 04:12:01 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Thu Jun 6 23:09:33 2013.

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Back in the 1980's, I visited Livonia Avenue & Junius Street where some R16's were scrapped when I was a teenager. They were most likely the General Electric ones (6400's). I was walking on the ceiling because some of them were upside down. I also went to 1st Avenue in Brooklyn and took as many route & destination signs as possible, both new & old. It's strange how the R14's-R22's had the new color-coded signs even though they were going to be retired.

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Re: Last run of the R30

Posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 05:29:23 2013, in response to Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 13:43:24 2013.

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another R-30 pic:


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