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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Jun 7 08:42:12 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 00:47:20 2013. Well I was trying to be patriotic, and use an American car.... :P |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jun 7 08:48:53 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 01:46:27 2013. that will be John from Glendale.\ Renee: That you for locating the name of that poster. I tried to yesterday but was unable to do it. Your information collaborates what he says. That gives us what is almost certainly the last run. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 09:11:12 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jun 7 08:48:53 2013. you're welcome |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 7 09:15:53 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 14:16:10 2013. Also, there was a relatively small budget crunch around that time,, so the lack of A/C made these cars an easy target for early "retirement". |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 7 09:21:58 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by mcorivervsaf on Wed Jun 5 14:57:09 2013. It could have been as long ago as 1986 that I rode an R27 or R30 in service. Of course, I remember seeing them into the 1990s...I didn't know they would be gone so soon. Also, I didn't know the difference between a 27 and a 30.And I never liked these cars. Maybe it's 'cause my mom used to drag me into Manhattan to see museums and such on the RR (change from the 7 at Queensboro...) |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 7 09:25:24 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 5 15:58:48 2013. Thanks for the continuing great information you give us here!! |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by NorthShore on Fri Jun 7 09:37:46 2013, in response to Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 13:43:24 2013. Weren't the R-16's the replacements for the Multiplexes? |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jun 7 10:18:08 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by John from Glendale on Thu Jun 6 13:16:53 2013. Your memory is fine! I was the T/O on that trip.I want to thank you for your original sub-talk post on this several years ago. Now based upon the information from both you and Renee I feel we can add this trip to "The Book of Last Runs" with appropriate credit. The fact that the train only ran in service down to Myrtle Avenue adds color to the story. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jun 7 10:21:00 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by NorthShore on Fri Jun 7 09:37:46 2013. Weren't the R-16's the replacements for the Multiplexes?Chris: Your thinking of the R-27's. Within about a year of their arrival the Multis and Staten Island cars were retired as well as the Lo-V's. (Lo'V's on the BMT that is.) Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jun 7 10:22:52 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 7 09:25:24 2013. You're very welcome.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by CJ on Fri Jun 7 10:35:29 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by renee gil on Thu Jun 6 07:26:41 2013. I'm not sure if this could be the train that made the last run, but you never know. This was taken in 1987.
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 10:37:34 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by CJ on Fri Jun 7 10:35:29 2013. very cool pic! where was this taken? CIY? |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by CJ on Fri Jun 7 10:37:38 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 00:49:11 2013. Man you had to have felt bad for maintenance (if they had any) who had to deal with that. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by CJ on Fri Jun 7 10:38:16 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 10:37:34 2013. Sadly I am not sure. I found this picture while looking up this very subject. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by CJ on Fri Jun 7 10:41:51 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 01:30:17 2013. I wonder how long was a while before all the problems started to take place. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by CJ on Fri Jun 7 10:46:26 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 05:29:23 2013. They had some R27s that were painted red like the R30s only to be retired a short time later. I know 8145, 8173, and 8236 were some of the cars that were painted red. There is a picture of 8173 at Naparano along side several Green R10s. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by John from Glendale on Fri Jun 7 11:00:06 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 01:21:15 2013. I also remember hoping we would make it to Broadway-Myrtle and back! |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 11:03:30 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by John from Glendale on Fri Jun 7 11:00:06 2013. I only came off at Broadway-Myrtle. after that I never seen a R16 in service again. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by John from Glendale on Fri Jun 7 11:05:01 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jun 7 10:18:08 2013. Well, you're very welcome, and thank you. I was always 99.9% sure that it was the last run, now like you say, I suppose we can say 100%. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 11:10:02 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by randyo on Fri Jun 7 02:24:13 2013. I thought only the 16's and 17's had that stupid grid cowl thingy? |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 7 11:15:04 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 7 09:21:58 2013. They were my favorite car.In 6th grade, they hit the QJ, I started commuting on them for 3 stops on the Jamaica el rather then the B56, which was slow and overrun with Richmond Hill High school brats. My teacher's ethic was pro responsibility and maturity, such as to use public transit oneself over a school bus. So I consider them part of my upbringing. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 7 11:17:06 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by NorthShore on Fri Jun 7 09:37:46 2013. They were for several things requiring fleet expansion:- get rid of Gate cars used as shuttles on the outer end of the West End Line at rush hours, - Rockaway expansion |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 7 11:18:34 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by CJ on Fri Jun 7 10:35:29 2013. They look too rotten for even Naparona. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 11:29:48 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Jun 7 08:42:12 2013. Blasphemage, sir! "Real Americans" would never diss an American made car even if it was an Edsel. Be glad I didn't compare those to a Trabant! (grin) |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 11:45:44 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by CJ on Fri Jun 7 10:37:38 2013. I think the speed with which they left probably punctuates that. :) |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 11:46:18 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by CJ on Fri Jun 7 10:41:51 2013. Dunno, but obviously past the warrantee period. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Flxible Metro on Fri Jun 7 12:03:28 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 7 09:21:58 2013. What exactly IS the difference between the R27's & R30's ? And were they not ordered for both the BMT & IND ? I know the former small amount of 1800 R10 series were BMT specific & the rest of the larger order were strictly for the IND, namely the "A" route. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Flxible Metro on Fri Jun 7 12:04:29 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by NorthShore on Fri Jun 7 09:37:46 2013. Yes they were & perhaps some standards. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Flxible Metro on Fri Jun 7 12:06:46 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by CJ on Fri Jun 7 10:35:29 2013. Goetz is my hero ! |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Flxible Metro on Fri Jun 7 12:11:41 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 11:29:48 2013. I'd love to see the Ford Motor Company manufacture EMU's for standard gauge trackage ! Perhaps Philips or Siemens could provide the propulsion package. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jun 7 12:21:06 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Flxible Metro on Fri Jun 7 12:03:28 2013. All of the 10 foot wide R-Types were ordered for operation on both the IND and BMT Divisions However since the R-10's spent so much of their time on the "A" train they are almost always referred to as IND cars.Likewise the R-27 and R-30 spent their early years on the Southern Section of the BMT there were regarded by most rail-fans as BMT equipment. The R-27, R-30 and R-30A's car classes were virtually identical. Their was some minor differences in the electrical system and other components but all three classes could and did operate together. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 7 12:30:06 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by renee gil on Fri Jun 7 01:40:26 2013. yup..it was disgusting..they started appearing in the late 70's on the Eastern lines [except the M]mostly the LL at first..replacing the R7/9 cars..while the J received mostly 27/30.the M ran every and anything from the south during those times. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 7 12:37:17 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jun 7 12:21:06 2013. The R27/30 had all "B" division signs except maybe not specifically E and F for some reason. They were put on Southern Division locals replacing Standards as SMEE equipment could do much to improve time-keeping. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 7 13:13:28 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 7 12:37:17 2013. E/8TH AVENUE EXP..F/6TH AVENUE EXP.. They had them..very simple signs.. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 7 13:22:55 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 00:47:20 2013. $1,500 brand new..was the price of that tinker toy.my brother purchased one as a "gag" for his wife..after she bugged the hell out of him for a car.. guess who was driving this after he "gave" it to her? LOL! funniest smack to the head ever...And he learned to love his go cart! what a godawful car that was..ugh. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jun 7 13:34:38 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 5 13:58:45 2013. More than anything, the issue was poor design coupled with the MTA's unwillingness to spend money to bring the R-16s to a GSR which would have meant re-engineering and then overhaul. There were those who, by that time, were so enamored with stainless steel cars that they were willing to invest very little in anything not stainless steel. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 13:45:28 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Flxible Metro on Fri Jun 7 12:11:41 2013. Hate to say it, but given Ford's "reliability" and cheap parts, I'd be scared of that concept. Bad enough what GM/EMD turned into. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Fri Jun 7 13:54:18 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 00:47:20 2013. Oh, Dear God, no! Not the Yugo! My eyes are burning! :)About 20 years ago, someone living in Co-op City actually had one of those... things, parked out on the street! They had a whole bunch of clothing stashed in the back, it looked like someone was LIVING out of it! Almost made me puke! Man, talk about an eyesore! |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 13:57:17 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 7 13:22:55 2013. Anyone who even thinks about Yugos needs to see "Drowning Mona" ... great flick!http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0186045/ Yugo gave the entire town one for the movie. They're still laughing down there about what it took to get rid of them. :) |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 7 13:57:59 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 7 13:13:28 2013. Fot some reason, I though they skipped over those, just had ...D, DD, EE, FF, GG |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 7 13:59:38 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Train Dude on Fri Jun 7 13:34:38 2013. But they did that silly rebuild on one of them to make it look like an R42 or R44. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 13:59:42 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by mcorivervsaf on Fri Jun 7 13:54:18 2013. Heh. There was a whole town near Poughkeepsie that were given those for the movie, "Drowning Mona" ... and they lived up to their reputation. They at least had a rear window heater so your hands wouldn't freeze pushing them. :) |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Jun 7 14:08:13 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 11:29:48 2013. Bah - my stepdad worked at the Ford Mahwah plant in the 60's and 70's, so I know of what I speak!The last car he bought while working there was....a Datsun 810 |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 7 14:11:15 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 7 13:59:38 2013. hey..it was a pretty sweet looking car!would have been a beaut seeing them rolling along the A line.. Looking how intense the rebuild was,you might as well say it was a brand new car. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 14:29:29 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Jun 7 14:08:13 2013. Heh. Datsun was another interesting car ... they got so bad they had to change their name to Nissan. :) |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 14:30:20 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 7 14:11:15 2013. And probably STILL needed a diesel to push it. :) |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Jun 7 14:33:28 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 7 12:37:17 2013. Joe: Here's the original rollsigns lists for the R-27's.R-27 ORIGINAL ROUTE SIGNS BEFORE CHRYSTIE STREET. The R-27’s began service on the Brighton Line on November 15, 1960 and among there many features was a new route listing combining both the IND and BMT routes and introducing for the first time route letters for the BMT Lines. This is a listing of that route sign arranged in alphabetical order and not the order in which they appeared on the rollsign. These are the outside readings: A 8th AVE EXPRESS AA 8th AVE LOCAL BB 6th AVE LOCAL C 8th AVE EXPRESS CC 8th AVE LOCAL D 6th AVE EXPRESS E 8th AVE EXPRESS F 6th AVE EXPRESS GG B’KLYN-QUEENS LOCAL J NASSAU ST EXPRESS JJ NASSAU ST LOCAL KK NASSAU ST LOCAL L 14th STREET LINE LL 14th STREET LINE M NASSAU STREET EXPRESS N BWAY-SEA BEACH EXPRESS Q BWAY-BRIGHTON EXPRESS QB BWAY-BRGTN LOCAL via BRIDGE QT BWAY-BRGTN LOCAL via TUNNEL RR BWAY-4th AVE LCL S SPECIAL T BWAY-WEST END EXPRESS TT WEST END LOCAL The inside readings where mostly the same with the following exceptions: GG BKLYN-QUEENS N BWAY-SEA BCH QB BRIGTN via BRIDGE QT BRIGTN VIA TUNNEL These then are the routes that the NYCTA had in operation or contemplated running in 1960. Sharp eyed subfans will note the inclusion of the “C 8th Avenue Local which had last run back in 1949. Did the TA plan on bringing this service back? (They did briefly during an emergency in December 1962 for a two week period.) Hard core subfans will ask the question “where’s the HH, inquiring minds want to know.” Well this was 1960 and the “HH Fulton Street Local” had last run back in 1946 as the Court Street Shuttle and would not be reactivated until 1962 for the Rockaway Locals. The BMT routes bear some explanation. The BMT was the first of the three subway systems to implement a systematic listing of their routes and this was done back in 1925 with the delivery of the D-Type “Triplexes.” All BMT routes where numbered from 1 through 16. The route numbers where never applied to the far more numerous Standards or the massive el car fleet. The Zephyr, Green Hornet and Multis articulated subway cars carried the route numbers whereas the Bluebird did not. The BMT did use the route numbers on the company issued maps but the Board of Transportation discontinued the practice. Nevertheless in 1960 those cars which could display the route numbers ,(D-Types,R-11 and R-16) did so. Listed below are the BMT numbered routes with their intended letter replacements Rt 1 Brighton Express / Q Rt 1 Brighton Local via Bridge / QB Rt 1 Brighton Local via Tunnel / QT Rt 2 4th Avenue Local / RR Rt 3 West End Express / T Rt 3 West End Local / TT Rt 4 Sea Beach / N Rt 5 Culver / No replacement Rt 6 5th Avenue El / discontinued 1940 Rt 7 Franklin Avenue/ No replacement Rt 8 Astoria / discontinued 1949 when the Astoria Line was through-routed with the Broadway Line. Rt 9 Flushing/ discontinued 1949 when the Flushing Line became an all IRT operation. Rt 10 Myrtle-Chambers Line / M Rt 11 Myrtle Avenue / No replacement Rt 12 Lexington Avenue / discontinued 1950 although original portions of the Lexington Avenue Line remained in service with Rts 14 and 15. Rt 13 Fulton Street / discontinued in 1940 and 1956 although the easternmost portion of the line remained in service as part of the IND “A” Line. Rt 14 Broadway-Brooklyn Local / KK Rt 15 Jamaica Local / JJ Rt 15 Jamaica Express / J Rt 16 14th Street Local / LL Of interest are the readings for the “L” and “LL”. They both said “14th Street Line.” Presumably the “L” would have been for the 14th Street Express which had last run in 1956, but how was one to differentiate two both referred to as “Line” and not “Local or Express.” There was no provision made for the Southern Section – Nassau Street services or for Culver or Franklin Avenue Shuttles. The lack of signs for the Southern Section – Nassau Street routes wasn’t so much a problem for the West End Line as the West End Locals had always operated to the Nassau Street Line and never ran on the Broadway Line. (Well they did once for one evening during an emergency in 1965. The little TT was put into service between Astoria and Whitehall Street for several hours.)) The R-27’s along with the R-30 and R-30A cars were never put into service on the Eastern Section of the BMT prior to November 1967. So the letters “J, JJ, KK, L, and LL were not used. The letter “M” however was assigned to the Rt 1 Brighton-Nassau Street Expresses whenever the new cars were used there. “M Nassau Street Express” was also used to designate the Rt 2 4th Avenue-Nassau Street Express in the morning rush. In the evening rush trains carried the letter “M” on the front bulkhead and “S Special” on the side route signs. Why was there no “MM Nassau Street Local? Because by the time the R-27’s were delivered the #10 Myrtle Avenue-Chambers Street Line had been reduced to a rush-hour only service which ran express in the direction of heavy traffic. There wasn’t enough time during the rush hours to change signs so the trains carried express signs in both directions. The Jamaica Express carried express signs in both directions as well during the rush hours even though it ran local in the direction of light traffic. The Jamaica Local ran at all other times which is why there was both a “J” and “JJ” reading. If R-27’s were used on the Culver or Franklin Shuttles they carried “S Special” signs. The R-32’s began service on September 14, 1964, a few days after a press run on the New York Central Railroad into Grand Central Terminal. Their rollsigns contained several modifications. Well that’s enough for now, next time I’ll look at the rollsigns for the R-32 and R-38 and well see how they differed. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jun 7 14:35:54 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 7 13:57:59 2013. I don't recall "DD" but I do remember that they had "C/8 Ave Exp" signs for some reason. What is surprising that they didn't have "B/6 Ave Exp" signs since by the time they were ordered, the TA had plans for a B service to be operated post Chrystie. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 7 14:40:29 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 14:30:20 2013. Yet, that was among the first scrapped.Then there was that one they painted silver with blue doors to match R32's for the Franklin shuttle, but nothing became of that. |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jun 7 14:44:51 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 7 14:40:29 2013. Junkers make excellent prototypes as long as they don't have to run in revenue. It's not like you're trashing a valuable piece of equipment to play "what if?" :) |
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