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| Last run of the R30 (1226807) | |
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| (1226811) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 5 13:47:24 2013, in response to Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 13:43:24 2013. MTA shortchanged the public on those cars. Shoulda lasted longer than three decades. |
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| (1226813) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 13:49:29 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 5 13:47:24 2013. Most R27's never made it to 30. |
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| (1226817) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 5 13:53:30 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 13:49:29 2013. And that's with a rebuild. What exactly did the MTA do to stop these 'birds from lasting? |
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| (1226818) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 5 13:55:57 2013, in response to Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 13:43:24 2013. But the R32s soldier on... |
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| (1226819) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 5 13:58:45 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 5 13:53:30 2013. They didn't do anything to stop them from lasting. They were poorly designed and couldn't even reach their planned obsolescence dates. The Redbird design worked better on the IRT because the cars were smaller and therefore had better structural integrity. |
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| (1226823) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 5 14:00:35 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 5 13:58:45 2013. Acid washes for graffiti, deferred maintenance for HOW long? And those rustbirds were pretty long in the tooth when they finally met the scrapper. I went for a ride with a friend back in 2001 and was handing him pieces of his train to turn in. :( |
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| (1226824) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 5 14:03:03 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 5 13:58:45 2013. Oh, I'm not sure of that. Who knows what evil lurks at the heart of the MTA. |
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| (1226826) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by seabeachexpress on Wed Jun 5 14:04:02 2013, in response to Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 13:43:24 2013. I was living near the 36 ave station on the Astoria line when the first R27's went into service in 1960. I was 9 and so excited when I saw it the first time in Olive green paint and destination signs lit up in green. |
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| (1226829) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 5 14:06:03 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 5 13:55:57 2013. LAHT steel rots easier than stainless. How many 1950's Buicks are still on the road along the coast? |
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| (1226833) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 5 14:14:29 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 5 14:06:03 2013. LAHT steel rots easier than stainless.Well, that's kind of the point of stainless. But the TA always specified LAHT. They should send Budd's successor royalties. Not only have the cars lasted much longer but Budd put in the absolute low bid for them because the TA made no allowance for stainless. And the kinda-sorta stainless R38s. How long did they last? |
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| (1226834) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 14:16:10 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 5 13:58:45 2013. What doomed them was the inability to retrofit them with A/C, which was done to the redbirds. Had that been possible, they'd probably have lasted until replaced by the R143's. |
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| (1226836) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jun 5 14:18:29 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 14:16:10 2013. why couldn't A/C be installed? Was it a weight issue? The exterior design looks like an R-32 |
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| (1226840) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 5 14:25:59 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 14:16:10 2013. "Inability" sounds like unwillingness. Someone's palm musta been greased already. |
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| (1226844) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 14:36:23 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jun 5 14:18:29 2013. Yes, weight. The retrofits would have made them unacceptably heavy. |
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| (1226845) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 5 14:38:04 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 5 14:14:29 2013. As I recall, aside from the outer panels, the innards of the 38's were all LAHT as well. Couldn't agree more about the stainless. Dunno why the TA didn't want to pay the extra for it back then. When you consider that the LoV's and Arnines were also LAHT, seems as though the real problem was all those acid washes. :( |
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| (1226849) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Wed Jun 5 14:47:23 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 5 14:03:03 2013. Who knows what evil lurks at the heart of the MTA?Only this man knows!  |
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| (1226852) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Jun 5 14:50:08 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 5 13:58:45 2013. I think deferred (or no) maintenance and acid washes to remove graffiti had more to do with their premature scrapping than their design. We're lucky they lasted as long as they did.--mark |
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| (1226855) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jun 5 14:54:36 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Jun 5 14:50:08 2013. didn't all of the IRT cars that woudl become redbirds in the 1980's have acid washes as well? |
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| (1226857) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Wed Jun 5 14:57:09 2013, in response to Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 13:43:24 2013. Whoa! The last time I saw an R30 in service, was around 1990, from a window of the school bus I was riding, at Fresh Pond Road station on the M line. Back then, I thought that the M line was an IRT line due to its redbird appearance, but I found out years later, it wasn't the case! Now, I'm feeling old! |
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| (1226859) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by chud1 on Wed Jun 5 15:00:18 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by mcorivervsaf on Wed Jun 5 14:47:23 2013. da shadow knows.chud1. :)..... |
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| (1226860) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Jun 5 15:04:18 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jun 5 14:54:36 2013. Yea, the redbirds had rusting problems towards the end of their service life as well. |
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| (1226865) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 5 15:17:31 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Jun 5 15:04:18 2013. Uh ... yeah. :( And most of them had rusted between the body and the floor which is a lot worse than the picture above as far as safety went. |
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| (1226866) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by CJ on Wed Jun 5 15:17:45 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 14:16:10 2013. That along with declining ridership in the subway, which also did them in. Of course that would comeback to bite the MTA a few years later once the Metrocard was introduced. |
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| (1226869) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 5 15:24:13 2013, in response to Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 13:43:24 2013. BTW, it should also be close to 26 years since the last run of the R16, but no one wants to make note of that, except perhaps me.Chris: You anticipated me by a few days. The following is an excerpt from "The Book of Last Runs." June 25, 1993 – The last train of R-30’s and R-30A’s ran in service today on the “C” Concourse-8th Avenue-Fulton Street Local. The consist was R-30A 8408-8397 R-30 8322-8305 R-30 8298-8295 R-30A 8396-8393 NYD Bulletin Sep 1993 Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1226871) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by CJ on Wed Jun 5 15:27:40 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 5 15:24:13 2013. Thanks Larry. I heard the last train of R16s to run was in June of 1987 speaking of that. I think the last run was on the J or the M? |
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| (1226875) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 5 15:38:31 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by CJ on Wed Jun 5 15:27:40 2013. So then, the R16s made 34 years. |
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| (1226876) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 5 15:39:00 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Jun 5 14:50:08 2013. Sounds like typical MTA hijinks. It's only taxpayers' money that bought them, so who cares? Let 'em eat cake . . . |
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| (1226877) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 15:41:32 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by mcorivervsaf on Wed Jun 5 14:57:09 2013. By 1990, they were mostly moved over to the C to replace the green R10's. |
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| (1226878) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 5 15:41:36 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by CJ on Wed Jun 5 15:27:40 2013. The last R16 was an M. |
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| (1226882) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 15:45:42 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 5 15:24:13 2013. Hmmm, a little later than I thought. I knew you'd have the proper dates.What about the R16's? IIRC they ended their service inauspiciously in early June 1987 after a major mechanical breakdown caused the MTA to finally pull the last 4 or 5 sets off the M. |
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| (1226884) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 15:48:42 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 5 15:38:31 2013. The Westinghouses. And less than half. The GE units didn't even make it to 30. |
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| (1226887) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 5 15:56:32 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 15:45:42 2013. I do not think an R16 ever saw a GOH R42 |
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| (1226889) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 5 15:58:48 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by CJ on Wed Jun 5 15:27:40 2013. CJ: I have looked long and hard and this is the best that I could come up with about the end of the R-16's. This is an excerpt from a response to a question about this a few years ago.1987 was to be the last year of service for the R-16's. The January 7, 1987 car assignment lists 48 R-16s required for service on the M Myrtle Av-Nassau St-West End Local and the R Myrtle Av-Nassau St-4 Avenue Local. Occasionally R-16's would still turn up on the B and Broadway R as well. As late as May 22 there was still at least one train in service. A new timetable went into effect on May 24, 1987 and spelled the end for the R-16's. On June 26 all remaining R-16's were ordered out of service. Unfortunately the last run seems to have slipped under the railfan radar and no one, to my knowledge has recorded the last run and the equipment involved. Please let me know if you have this info. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1226890) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 5 16:00:18 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 15:45:42 2013. Chris: See response to CJ.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1226891) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 16:06:02 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 5 15:58:48 2013. Thanks. Last time I rode one was in February of 1987 (Essex St to Dekalb Ave) and the last time I saw one anywhere was in March. If they were in service after this period, they were few and far between.Ironically, I had no idea they were being scrapped, I kept expecting them to come back rehabbed and painted red or green. Took until the summer before I finally gave up on 'em. |
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| (1226893) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 5 16:13:45 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 16:06:02 2013. My last ride on an R-16 was on the "R" Myrtle Av-Nassau St-4 Avenue Local on April 15, 1987. I rode that train and it turned out to be my last ride on the R-16's. The full consist was 6307-6316-6331-6343-6350-6381-6397-6398. (not in order.)Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1226897) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 5 16:18:12 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 16:06:02 2013. I think the last one limped into Myrtle/Bway early one AM rush, dumped everyone, and went to CIY. |
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| (1226917) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Wed Jun 5 17:34:40 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 15:41:32 2013. If anything, late 1989, or early 1990. Back then, I lived in Flushing, Queens at 114th Street, just off of Roosevelt Avenue. I was used to seeing the Redbirds on the #7 line growing up there. I was in second grade, at P.S. 87, in Middle Village, at the time. I went on a school trip, and the school bus passed by the station, making a turn, and seeing that Redbird above made me think that the J/M/Z lines were IRT lines. I used to read the subway maps my mother got once in a while, so all that reading made me think that they had the same cars as the #7! Of course, one trip with my dad, driving across the Williamsburg Bridge in 1994, shattered that illusion! Seeing a set of R42's on the M, told me all I needed to know about that! Yikes! |
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| (1226918) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jun 5 17:38:19 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 5 15:17:31 2013. If the B of T planners hadn't thrown away the concept of stainless steel when they rejected certain features of the R-11s, everything on the NYCTS would have been stainless steel by the time the last R-10 left service. I understand that a member of the NYCTA new car engineering dept commented when he saw the R-32s that it was too bad the R-27s and 30s weren't stainless steel as well. If the R-36s had been stainless steel like the R-32s they might still be with us. |
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| (1226920) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Wed Jun 5 17:43:05 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 5 15:17:31 2013. You know, that reminds me of the work service consist of Redbirds I saw several years back on the Dyre Avenue line! Eww! It's like a dead corpse decomposing! *shudders* :( |
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| (1226927) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 5 18:03:45 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by mcorivervsaf on Wed Jun 5 17:43:05 2013. The one I was describing was shedding anticlimber plate from the floor, and you could see daylight all around the cab at the floor. It was running at the time on the (4) line. I made plenty of comments about what we saw on the old subtalk. I was certainly impressed. :( |
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| (1226928) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 5 18:04:47 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by mcorivervsaf on Wed Jun 5 17:43:05 2013. At least those ones lasted a decade longer than their IND/BMT "cousins". |
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Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 5 18:05:17 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by randyo on Wed Jun 5 17:38:19 2013. Yeah, those 32's are still thumbing their noses at that whole concept. :) |
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| (1226934) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Wed Jun 5 18:15:25 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 5 18:04:47 2013. That's true. Some of those R30's got used in films, so they were in the spotlight, for awhile, at least.And then, there's #8506! |
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| (1226979) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Jun 5 19:45:35 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 15:45:42 2013. Yeah, a pull apart in the Montague tube. |
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| (1226996) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by CJ on Wed Jun 5 22:55:01 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 5 15:58:48 2013. Thanks once again Larry. It's unfortunate this slipped under the radar, but due to the reputation of the cars I guess that it didn't matter. |
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| (1227004) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by renee gil on Thu Jun 6 00:24:46 2013, in response to Last run of the R30, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jun 5 13:43:24 2013. BTW, it should also be close to 26 years since the last run of the R16, but no one wants to make note of that, except perhaps me.I believe the last run of the R16 date to be Monday, June 15th, 1987. I was on the M line that day, and I saw R-16 equipment stored in Fresh Pond Yard. Due to a very late railroad, the train didn't leave Metropolitan Avenue for quite sometime. The dispatcher had one of the R-16s brought up to make the 7:30 PM interval. I was on that train to Broadway-Myrtle. Seats were missing and side signs were missing! I don't have the entire consist (my memory is very vague on this), but 6337 was on the south, and 6328 on the north. I think I never seen another R-16 operating in passenger service again after that. Believe me, by that time they were in such sorry shape. |
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| (1227005) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by renee gil on Thu Jun 6 00:25:26 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by renee gil on Thu Jun 6 00:24:46 2013. You can thank the R-46s for the "longevity" of the R-16s. Had it not been for the cracked Rockwell trucks on the R-46s, the R-16s would have retired much sooner! |
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| (1227028) | |
Re: Last run of the R30 |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Thu Jun 6 02:24:31 2013, in response to Re: Last run of the R30, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 5 15:58:48 2013. When were the first Westinghouse R16s retired (not counting 6304 which was wrecked in 1970)? Was it during 1986? Or was it earlier? |
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