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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Oct 20 22:28:23 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Oct 20 10:30:13 2011. Amazing how they closed the store almost simultaneously to the El's closure...which they had spearheaded... |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Oct 20 22:33:47 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MELLOW ONE on Thu Oct 20 21:42:22 2011. IAWTP |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 20 23:08:40 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by blue8irt on Thu Oct 20 19:47:04 2011. I'm not ranting. And, I am very happy that they found your cancer. What I was trying to say was that the els, Myrtle and Lexington, were considered obsolete in their times. Yes, I would love to have them running today, as well as a few good trolley routes. i just don't get the corporations stuff! |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Oct 21 01:19:56 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 20 17:07:33 2011. Yes Really. There's more to a neighorhood than just the street the el is on. Every sidestreet and adjoining street would have rail trainsport right near it. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Oct 21 01:21:10 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Oct 20 22:28:23 2011. While I don't necessarily buy Stephen's point, it may or may not be true, but the timing surely does somewhat support it... |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 01:56:42 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MELLOW ONE on Thu Oct 20 21:42:22 2011. Excellent post..[The Myrtle El removal was 42 years ago].The fact that nothing was built to replace those lines..shift riders to nearby buses[B52 and B54]is a shame that carries on to this very day. The gap in rail service has produced a two fare zone where none should exist.The new[er] operating authority[MTA] has no plans to replace the routes..but the IND did at one time with its Utica Avenue line. Perhaps one day..with the B44 and B46 bus lines BOTH the most crowded bus lines in the city[and the the USA],the MTA will come to their senses and BUILD a north south rail line to meet the needs of Brooklyn. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 01:58:30 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Oct 20 10:30:13 2011. Yup..to them..it was the cost of doing business. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 03:08:09 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 20 17:07:33 2011. It wasnt "lack of ridership"..it was PURE SPIN..The Board Of Transportation still planned on building new rapid transit lines in the boro,the top of its list a route down Utica Avenue from South 4th st/Houston/6th avenue. They didnt want to spend the funds repairing the old elevated lines that didnt have "subway" origins..[i.e subway extensions over elevated tracks],demographics..and lack of funding. Bottom line..the funds were not there..but it didnt stand in the way of operating expenses..The BOT clearly did not want to operate these lines any further,and took steps to eliminate them.. One way to accomplish this was to claim "low ridership"..[I.E REDUCE SERVICE to a point where no one wanted to ride it].. offer another service..and or make promises to build a replacement. Well..as we can see the results..nothing replaced these routes..and the lines vanished like they were never there..with most riders never knowing they existed. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri Oct 21 03:28:47 2011, in response to Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Joe on Sun Oct 16 22:02:05 2011. Great photos. Makes you wonder how it was to live in those times before the neighborhoods went to shit and are "rebounding" with douchy hipsters. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 03:41:43 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 03:08:09 2011. Ding!I can only speak for the 3rd Avenue Bronx line since I lived there ... I only joyrided the Myrt. But the trains were awful far apart on the Myrt and still largely empty. As to the 3rd Avenue El though, it was painful to ride if you had to be there at a reasonable time. Seemed as though trains were a half hour apart most of the time and slow as molasses when a train finally showed up. I think you're on to something there ... |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Oct 21 05:24:51 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 03:41:43 2011. Don't they use this same trick for bus lines? Cut back the service to ridiculously long intervals and/or operating hours, then claim that nobody rides it! Hey, if it worked the first dozen times... |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 09:58:52 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 03:41:43 2011. The THIRD AVE EL is a perfect example of what Im talking about.The BOT put in place plans to replace this line since the early days of its creation..followed by the MTA's 1968 Plan for Action.. After YEARS of promises..they finally tore the line down..replaced it with a bus..With MORE promises of a NEW LINE along the PENN CENTRAL[now Metro North]ROW. Well the money dried up..the promises dried up along with it...along with all other rapid transit plans in that boro[remember the SAS line along 138th st..?] It seemed to me that the MTA was dead set on reducing as much rail lines around the city as possible[or what they could get away with] at this time..possibly to reduce its operating expenses or trackage responsiblity.. whatever the case may be,that line of thinking would have continued if someone with common sense didnt step in.. The Jamaica El was on the chopping block as far as Cresent st..the Culver El was next,joined to the Sea Beach line via a short connection in Bay Ridge..the tail end of the Fulton st El to Lefferts..and the elimination of the Broadway 7th avenue line from 242 to dykeman.. all of these plans were stopped short..by smarter people with vision...knowing how much these cut would hurt riders. Now..we can only hope with the so called expansion program in full swing..some of those funds will make its way into the so called outer boro's where new routes are needed more than ever. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by trains61 on Fri Oct 21 12:28:40 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Thu Oct 20 17:24:53 2011. PJ`s. Home to Bd Of Ed folks, Transit workers, Office workers, cab drivers, Downtown Bklyn. retail folks, etc. etc. etc. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by trains61 on Fri Oct 21 12:54:13 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Oct 17 19:37:07 2011. Slight correction, those were Co-ops that stretched between DeKalb and Lafayette along Grand Ave. The Housing Projects [Lafayette Gardens] was east of there on the otherside of Classon Ave.To the North was Pratt Inst. housing along Willoughby Ave. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 21 13:20:35 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 20 17:42:46 2011. Actually, that's what they had. Tickets from The IND to the Myrtle could only be obtained from a specific agent's booth at Bway/Nassau station although I do recall in 1958 being able to obtain a transfer ticket to the el at the Jay St station so when the restriction was put in, I don't know. Manhattan bound, passengers could only obtain transfers from the booths between but not including Bway/Myrtle and Bridge/Jay. At night when those booths were closed and fares were collected on board trains, transfers were available at the agent's booth at Bridge/Jay. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Joe on Fri Oct 21 14:26:44 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 21 13:20:35 2011. Many thanks for this illuminating thread of many contributors.---- Regarding the paper transfers, I am looking at a transfer issued March 5, 1944. If memory is correct, Dad brought me on the last train from Park Row. I recall seeing workers swing a bumper into place while the passengers from that train were still on the Bridge-Jay platform. ---- The transfer is vertical, labeled Bridge-Jay St. Station. Beneath the sequential number 00070 and date, this paragraph appears in bold print: Good for a continuing trip on the DeKalb, Seventh or Smith-Coney Island Lines towards Brooklyn Bridge or Park Row only, at Myrtle Ave. and Jay St. ---- In smaller type: Issued by BMT Division of N. Y. C. Transit System, to a passenger desiring to continue trip beyond Bridge-Jay St., Station towards Brooklyn Bridge or Park Row. Is good only on date of issue and at station and time limit indicated. Acceptable only from passenger to whom issued. ---- It is torn off at 1 P.M. Dad penciled the back: Issued 12:20 P.M. Service began 12 M. [Recall that M. used to be used for Meridies, noon.] |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 15:05:40 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 09:58:52 2011. That's why I piped in ... but let's see if SAS ever leaves Manhattan first ... |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Oct 21 15:49:23 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 15:05:40 2011. lunch at Keens or Luger if we both are still able to walk in without chairs/canes. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 15:59:16 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 15:05:40 2011. At THIS point,I doubt it.I have a hard time believing that Phase 3 will ever get built. If it were cut and cover..sure it wouldnt take half as long..but this TBM stuff..THATS what driving up expenses.. What they should have done is go for the NO FRILLS VERSION..simular to the 8TH AVENUE subway..no muss no fuse. Extensions to Brooklyn and The Bronx? Dont see that happening anytime soon[remember,the SAS build out was set for 2020!] |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 16:10:46 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by trains61 on Fri Oct 21 12:54:13 2011. They were ALL part of the "Urban Renewal" project...that was suppose to extend all the way up to Broadway..on BOTH sides of the street.The upper section was built on the westside of Myrtle [Sumner,Tompkins,Marcy houses..with one very large tower set on the east side across from Sumner Houses of 24 floors..the other was never built] Land was cleared on Myrtle avenue[Tompkins to Marcy, and again from Marcy to Nostrand]but nothing was built untill recent times by private developers.. From That point on..the city left the sections alone leaving the nab in tact[no money]. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 17:06:43 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Oct 21 15:49:23 2011. Unless they move to 96th, dunno if I'll make it. :) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 17:07:34 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 15:59:16 2011. The pissing and moaning over a dig so deep down nobody could hear it kinda precludes doing anything someone would notice. :( |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Fri Oct 21 17:18:15 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by trains61 on Fri Oct 21 12:28:40 2011. Yup, people that went to church with me on Washington Av., people I saw everyday. I don't think anyone called it the PJ's until Eddie Murphy's cartoon came out anyways. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 17:48:31 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by trains61 on Thu Oct 20 01:59:47 2011. L.G houses..police dept..Pratt..blah blah blah.. |
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Posted by blue8irt on Fri Oct 21 18:37:16 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 20 23:08:40 2011. I'm sorry you misunderstood and believe me I'm happy to be here. Thank you. Please elaborate on corporation stuff. I agree with your view that having the old equipment and lines running would be a very cool experience. I guess my point (I was born a block east of the 3rd Ave. El) is that traveling back to those locations and not seeing those els there is unsettling. It makes me feel like something I grew up with is gone and intangible. It's almost unfair. Like when I think of the lonely World's Fair car sitting at Coney waiting for repairs which may never come. Preservation is so important. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by blue8irt on Fri Oct 21 18:44:50 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 01:56:42 2011. No wait! They have to finish that pesky 2nd Av. Line which was promised so many, many years ago. |
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Posted by blue8irt on Fri Oct 21 18:48:33 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Wed Oct 19 13:12:33 2011. I must say that the house we had at 181 was an awesome trip. The attic had a nice window in the roof to the rear and the entire attic had cedar lining through and through. That smell was great. It had a huge single sink in the kitchen. The kind that was hung onto the wall with a big single spigot dead center. The basement was sort of dirt and clay combo. The house just had class. My mother used to say that Jesse James rode on the old wooden cars on Myrtle Avenue. At the time, I didn't know what to believe. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 19:52:05 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Oct 20 07:48:37 2011. It wasnt that,so to speak.They were opening another so called "flagship store" [Queens Center mall]..and want THAT to be THE SHOPPERS DESTINATION..they figured if They left..it would cause the downfall of the whole shopping strip. In a way, it did. But instead of driving out business..it brought on the Bargain Basement ..mini malls.. hip hop based... electronics..and whatever else was tossed in the mix. Today..the area is as crowded as Fulton st mall if not more so..almost to the point where I hate shopping there. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Fri Oct 21 21:37:44 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 15:59:16 2011. If it were my show and I had a Sultan's fortune, I'd round up every able-bodied man and Dwarf I could find, and put a shovel in their hands and start digging EVERYWHERE at once, cut-and-cover style. Never mind this TBM stuff. Two years of agony max. Stations that LOOK LIKE SUBWAY STATIONS, not designer stores. And I'd build a connection (via a very sharply-curved jughandle) to the Nassau Street line as well.wayne |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Oct 21 22:13:34 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Fri Oct 21 21:37:44 2011. RIGHT ON!!! |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 21 22:13:37 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Fri Oct 21 21:37:44 2011. All right, men, get to work!Wait a minute! What are you gonna do? Nothin! Why? Oh, just askin'. (Poke! Slap!) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 21 22:21:22 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 15:05:40 2011. ..or if the cows come home first. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 22:27:36 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 21 22:21:22 2011. The chickens usually come home first ... cows ain't stupid. If the chickens survive, they're willing to take the risk. :) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 21 22:33:16 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 21 22:27:36 2011. Too funny. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 22:52:00 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Fri Oct 21 21:37:44 2011. maybe Thats what we need..someone from the private sector to take over this project..hell., if it was done back then..im sure we would have had a very expansive SAS TRUNK with crazy branches in 4 boro's! |
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Posted by trains61 on Sat Oct 22 02:00:10 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 16:10:46 2011. Yup. Grandma lived on the 11th floor of said tower. Went to sleep many a weekend to the sounds of the MJ train.I always wondered what the area looked like prior to the "Urban Renewl" project.? The posted pics of the Lex. El, give me a good idea. Somewhat like Dekalb Ave. between Bedford and Nostrand Ave. prior to the great razing. Used to go to the library at Dekalb and Nostrand, right past the demolition sites. I love the smell of decay in the morning... |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by trains61 on Sat Oct 22 02:04:53 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Fri Oct 21 17:18:15 2011. I think all the people in the area miss Joe`s Vegetable Stand at Emerson Pl. and Mrytle. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 22 02:07:23 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by trains61 on Sat Oct 22 02:00:10 2011. LOL...!I wonder why there were so many vacant lots in that area..as a kid..untill my dad and grandfather told me.. It would have been even worse for Bushwick if the Expressway was bulldozed through...though the nab was ripped out from under us anyway in the 70'S..BLOCKS AND BLOCKS of vaccant houses..mountains of rubble North Brooklyn was crap in those days..and just recently [thank God] is making a full recovery..too bad at the price of those already living there. |
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Posted by trains61 on Sat Oct 22 02:09:17 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 17:48:31 2011. Ha. We knew that you DID NOT want to visit the back of 88 Pct. So mind your P`s and Q`s. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 22 02:10:32 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by trains61 on Sat Oct 22 02:00:10 2011. LOL...!I wonder why there were so many vacant lots in that area..as a kid..untill my dad and grandfather told me.. It would have been even worse for Bushwick if the Expressway was bulldozed through...though the nab was ripped out from under us anyway in the 70'S..BLOCKS AND BLOCKS of vaccant houses..mountains of rubble North Brooklyn was crap in those days..and just recently [thank God] is making a full recovery..too bad at the price of those already living there. My grands fought tooth and nail against that highway,that would have carved its way across us like a hot knife thru butter..displacing thousands of families. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by trains61 on Sat Oct 22 02:13:52 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 22 02:07:23 2011. I have to give you credit for educating me on some of the things going on in the area. I could never understand why people of color couldn`t buy some of those tenements and brownstones. You hipped me to the redline zone = No Loan, the banks were pulling. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 22 02:17:18 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by trains61 on Sat Oct 22 02:09:17 2011. my mothers sister wasnt gonna have that when we visited her[L.G dekalb/kent]..these women strongly believed in the power of the leather belt..and didnt have a problem being FAITHFUL to it...so I DID MIND my "Ps and Qs"..without question. i was more afraid of THEM than the Police! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 22 02:23:11 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by trains61 on Sat Oct 22 02:13:52 2011. Oh..so you "paying attention in class"..!thanks..! you made my night!..gave me chills! Funny part about that is how things have turned full circle..as when i came back to Brooklyn to purchased my homes..i didnt have that kind of trouble..its like they were trying to "give them away"..so to speak.. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by trains61 on Sat Oct 22 02:25:31 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 22 02:17:18 2011. And we knew the Housing Authority Officers my name. If Mr. Maynard was on duty you better not be hanging out in front of the building.You also heard when somebody got a whipping, below you, above you or the side of you. And got taunted without mercy the next day if it was you. Heh. |
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Posted by trains61 on Sat Oct 22 02:32:54 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 22 02:23:11 2011. Last time I was in the neighborhood saw a large presence of Hasidics.Never used to see them below Eastern Parkway or above Broadway. So the neighborhood is changing. Nice chatting with you, workday tomorrow. I may not post much but I ALWAYS pay attention in class. Heh. |
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Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 22 02:36:16 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by trains61 on Sat Oct 22 02:25:31 2011. That was the ONE THING I DIDNT like about housing..the walls were/are paper thin! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 22 02:40:00 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by trains61 on Sat Oct 22 02:32:54 2011. cool beans..Oh yeah..i spoke to one sometime ago.. He told me they actually want to own all the property from boro park to williamsburg..and everything inbetween! I said to him.."well, you wont own THIS house.." |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sat Oct 22 06:14:43 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 19:52:05 2011. Jamaica Avenue is still (or again) a busy shopping destination. On the other hand Hillside Avenue has good subway access and is mostly just neighborhood shopping and used car dealers. The only destination shopping on Hillside I can think of is the cluster of wedding shops around 168th Street. |
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Posted by MELLOW ONE on Sat Oct 22 11:06:15 2011, in response to Re: Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by MELLOW ONE on Thu Oct 20 21:42:22 2011. I compared the 1924 and 1951 aerials of the Grand Ave section of the Lexington Ave El. The main difference was that the El curve was removed from South of the Green Ave Station onto and all of Lexington Ave to Broadway. I have to get a new sceen print utility to replicate the images from "http://gis.nyc.gov/doitt/nycitymap/". |
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Posted by blue8irt on Sat Oct 22 16:52:25 2011, in response to Lexington Ave. el & Pratt Institute campus, posted by Joe on Sun Oct 16 22:02:05 2011. Just want to say that this is one of the most enjoyable threads I've ever read here. The short memories I had of riding the Myrtle Av. and the GG were brought back to the forefront. I had blotted out many things because back then, I had some very bad experiences in the neighborhood of Pratt. When I went back to walk around, the place looked quite spruced up to me. The biggest let down (other than riding the G which was a dirty and long wait to get going)that our house @181 Steuben had been converted to an office which was closed when I was there. I will venture back soon as I want to see more. Thank you for posting this and to all who contributed to it. |
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