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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 25 23:19:13 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 25 23:16:55 2010.

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See previous response. It seems you did exactly as I said. Good work.

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 26 02:34:28 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Fred G on Sun Jul 25 22:38:03 2010.

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I don't hold any right wing beliefs. But you do.

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Railman718 on Mon Jul 26 07:54:34 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 25 21:39:22 2010.

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Yes and I also understand you you being a racist because you are the one who wants all Americans to look like light skinned black persons.

He wants everybody to look as handsome as me??

Awesome!


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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jul 26 08:01:48 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 25 23:00:29 2010.

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YAWN... Go eat a cheeseburger.



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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Railman718 on Mon Jul 26 08:03:27 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jul 26 08:01:48 2010.

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Yep Parrot Mode,gotta love it.

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jul 26 08:09:25 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Railman718 on Mon Jul 26 07:54:34 2010.

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Actually people would look much better if they had great fluffy manes around their necks, and a handsome tail with a tuft at the end.



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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jul 26 08:11:36 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jul 26 08:09:25 2010.

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Of course peepole taste just as good regardless of color.
Just a bloody red lunch on the inside regardless of the wrapper.



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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Railman718 on Mon Jul 26 08:12:48 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jul 26 08:09:25 2010.

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Actually people would look much better if they had great fluffy manes around their necks, and a handsome tail with a tuft at the end.

You are still the looker there Mr Lion!

Tell ya what we can go 50 50 hows that?


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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Railman718 on Mon Jul 26 08:13:31 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jul 26 08:11:36 2010.

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Of course peepole taste just as good regardless of color.
Just a bloody red lunch on the inside regardless of the wrapper.


"I know you got the fever for the flavor"...


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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Jul 26 08:16:27 2010, in response to SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Nilet on Fri Jul 23 20:29:00 2010.

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I hope you receive some form of psychiartic treatment.

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Jul 26 08:17:23 2010, in response to SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Nilet on Fri Jul 23 20:29:00 2010.

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Oh no, here we go again.

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by TheCiskoKid on Mon Jul 26 09:41:08 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 25 23:16:55 2010.

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He is but you should have never responded in the first place. You had to know where this was going to go.

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by bmtlines on Mon Jul 26 10:06:32 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by HarryP on Sun Jul 25 09:22:05 2010.

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I haven't encountered many problems personally but the issue is important because of the chilling effect it has had on myself and other photographers. I gave up many opportunities ot take pictures of the redbirds when they were being retired in the early 2000's because I do not like to be questioned or confronted by police. There came a point where I just decided that enough was enough, I was not going to allow my camera to become a worthless paperweight, and chose to fight back instead through the photo rights movements.

The straw that broke my back were the proposed MOFTB regulations two years ago that would have required permits for virtually all photography in New York. That threat succeeded in bringing together such disparate groups like photographers, artists, railfans, photojournalists, videographers, the NYCLU and the NPPA. We fought the proposals through petition drives and protests and WON! At least on paper New York now has some of the most liberal photo regulations in the country - you can even use a tripod without a permit. That only came about because photographers fought for it, not by remaining silent and aquiescing to whatever rules the city devised for us!

When our photo club was taking pictures of the VZ bridge two weeks ago we thought that the police might try to question us. A police car did pass by, slowed down to look, but did not approach us. Some nosey neighbors did though - they wanted to know why there were so many photographers there and if we were waiting for a celebrity to cross the bridge or some other event... The most serious argument I got into with a passerby was whether Nikon or Canon were better - he was a Canon lover :( If it were not for the photo rights movement and the resulting memo to police, I am sure we would have been harassed. As late as last year photographers were still reporting being harassed for taking pics of bridges from below.

I will say that the type of photography I do especially when working with models does not generate the same type of reaction from the public that I have read about here. I find people excusing themselves to pass or going out of thier way not to disturb my shot. At the other extreme are those who want to ham it up and get their picture taken with my model...


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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jul 26 11:02:06 2010, in response to Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Nilet on Fri Jul 23 15:32:25 2010.

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Why does this seem to happen to you so much more often than it happens to others?

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jul 26 11:04:41 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jul 23 22:21:08 2010.

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When the MVMs are being opened for any reason, they are guarded by an MTA 'Property Protection' guy. MTA uniform, badge...don't recall if there's a weapon or not. But most definitely not a rent-a-cop.

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by arnine on Mon Jul 26 11:10:48 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jul 26 11:04:41 2010.

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They carry guns (38s & 9mms). Not sure they are PPA's I think their patches say something else. PPA's are typically unarmed in a different uniform and at facilities (yards, depots, bldgs, etc)

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jul 26 11:18:09 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jul 26 11:04:41 2010.

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And he is a peace officer who *CAN* make an arrest without having to call the police.

AND he is an MTA employee who *must* show ID and badge when requested by the public "for any reason".



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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jul 26 11:19:23 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 25 22:22:49 2010.

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I think I'll photograph you at an ATM, or as you enter your password to Subchat. After all, it's routine operations.

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by TheCiskoKid on Mon Jul 26 11:28:40 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jul 26 08:09:25 2010.

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I never could get used to the antelope breath, though.

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Fred G on Mon Jul 26 11:38:57 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Easy on Sun Jul 25 22:43:51 2010.

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Let's not rush to judgement here about that having sex thing.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jul 26 12:16:07 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jul 26 11:19:23 2010.

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I think I'll photograph you at an ATM, or as you enter your password to Subchat. After all, it's routine operations.

Why do you have to be so stupid? Can't you try just once to be mature here?

Photographing people at ATMs on public property is fine, and photographing people at ATMs on private property is ok if the property owner allows it and not ok if he doesn't allow it. And this has nothing to do with Nilet's thread.

As for your second stupid idea, taking detailed close-up photos of someone entering data into a computer is likely a violation of an existing law or regulation. So what does that have to do with Nilet's situation, which does not involve violating any existing laws or rules?




Take Pride,
Terrapin Station


Now featuring the RailfanWindow.com Blog!

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jul 26 13:14:10 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jul 26 12:16:07 2010.

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My point is that both are acts where a certain level of security is warranted, just as servicing the MVM would be.

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by TheCiskoKid on Mon Jul 26 13:17:47 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jul 26 13:14:10 2010.

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I would think that the act of servicing an MVM would require security measures beyond those covered in the rules of conduct brochure. At some point common sense would have to prevail.

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 26 14:10:43 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Easy on Sun Jul 25 22:43:51 2010.

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Skin cancer, leather skin, having sex with lots of chicks

. . . and dying in agony from some new venereal disease?

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 14:35:13 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 23 23:33:39 2010.

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OTOH some may think he looks like a Hamas militant.

Because I'm sure Hamas is crawling with Jewish peaceniks. *rollmyeyes*

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 14:38:26 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jul 26 11:02:06 2010.

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Nilet RailroadIt doesn't. It's happened to Fred more often than to me, but no one asks him that question. Adjusted for frequency of camera-have and number of pictures taken, I doubt I'm any more bothered than anybody else. The only difference is that I make a federal case (sometimes literally) out of every incident, while many other people, including people on SubChat, merely apologise for breaking the nonexistent law and leave.

So yes, that's why it "seems" to happen to me more often.

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 14:39:55 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Fred G on Fri Jul 23 22:07:01 2010.

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Yeah, didn't you tell a rent-a-cop to go phuck himself?

And people insist I provoke people. *eyesrolloutofhead*

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 26 14:41:11 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 25 23:03:52 2010.

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Still stuck in self-hatred mode?

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 26 14:43:14 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by R Pansepcc on Sun Jul 25 10:31:39 2010.

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Spineless? Is that a challenge?

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 14:44:40 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by R Pansepcc on Sun Jul 25 10:29:05 2010.

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No, it's easier for him to scream and throw schit at the people fighting for his rights than to actually do anything productive.

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 26 14:45:44 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by R Pansepcc on Sun Jul 25 10:29:05 2010.

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The more you say stuff like that, the less believable it gets. Especially Fred's claim about "hundreds".

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 14:48:06 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Fred G on Sun Jul 25 22:38:03 2010.

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Heh, first Olog told you he wasn't right-wing.

Then he spouted delusional conspiracy theories about "the left."

Then he declared he was so far to the right he thought Bush was left-wing.

Poor guy has trouble keeping all his lies straight. :(

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Jul 26 14:51:25 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 14:39:55 2010.

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Then how come you are stopped more times than all of us photographers combined???????

I was stopped about 4 or 5 times over the 4 years I was taking pictures.

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 14:54:14 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Jul 26 14:51:25 2010.

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As previously mentioned, Fred has been stopped more often than I have. Therefore, your claim that I am stopped more often than everyone else is necessarily false.

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 26 15:17:59 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 14:54:14 2010.

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Fred has been stopped more often than I have

Or so he says.

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Fred G on Mon Jul 26 18:53:39 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 14:39:55 2010.

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LOL, my latest is to tell the platform janitor to sweep the floor.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Fred G on Mon Jul 26 18:55:27 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 26 15:17:59 2010.

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It's true; I've been approached many times, maybe even 100. ok, 50

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jul 26 19:44:18 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jul 26 13:14:10 2010.

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My point is that both are acts where a certain level of security is warranted, just as servicing the MVM would be.

No, one is an act that requires no security and the other is an act that is likely and rightly protected by law to prevent the stealing of individual's personal data.

The act of servicing an MVM in public involves creating a non-public area immediately adjacent to and surrounding the MVM. However since the serving can be seen from a public area, there is no problem with photographing it. It is up to NYCT to choose to block the view of the MVM if they do not wish it to be photographed during servicing.


Take Pride,
Terrapin Station


Now featuring the RailfanWindow.com Blog!

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Mon Jul 26 19:46:53 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 14:38:26 2010.

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And that's your right to complain, these idiots who like to make it hard for people must be made aware that we will not take it anymore and thanks to people like you Nilet eventually the idiots will just fade away heh,heh, yea wishful thinking, at least the most you can do is make it rough for these jerks from their bosses.
Karl M

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Re: Washington Post Examination of the Issue (was:Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by BMTLines on Mon Jul 26 21:11:38 2010, in response to Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Nilet on Fri Jul 23 15:32:25 2010.

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Nilet is far from alone

The Washington Post is now examining the issue:

Reliable statistics on detentions and arrests of photographers are hard to come by, but photographers, their advocates and even police agree that confrontations still occur frequently. Photographers had run-ins with police before the 2001 attacks, but constitutional lawyers say the combination of heightened security concerns and the spread of digital cameras has made such incidents more common.

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 21:52:44 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jul 26 11:19:23 2010.

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Nilet RailroadIf he's at an ATM in public, you can feel free to do just that, as long as you don't photograph him actually entering his PIN— by covering the pad with his hand, he has a reasonable expectation of privacy for that little area.

If he enters his SubChat password in public, you can take a photo of him, although the same rule applies if he covers his keyboard. If, however, he's at home when he enters said password, then he has a reasonable expectation of privacy, so you can't take the picture.

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 21:54:14 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by TheCiskoKid on Mon Jul 26 13:17:47 2010.

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New York state law is New York state law. There Supreme Court has yet to rule that some vague notion of "common sense" takes precedence over the law actually on the books.

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 21:56:53 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Jul 24 20:12:21 2010.

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Nilet RailroadI would, because there aren't any such laws.

At the moment, neither state nor federal law recognises some vague notion of "common sense" as legally binding. If it's legal, then it's legal— and forcing me to stop is illegal.

Of course, I didn't actually take a photo of the machine until he inspired me to with his rant; he shouted that I couldn't take photos as I was adjusting the white balance on my camera with my back to him and his precious machine.

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jul 26 22:01:22 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 21:56:53 2010.

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So... did you follow up with a report?



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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Fred G on Mon Jul 26 22:08:15 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 26 14:45:44 2010.

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To you maybe, but it's not like you know anything about this subject.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Fred G on Mon Jul 26 22:12:52 2010, in response to SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Nilet on Fri Jul 23 20:29:00 2010.

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Except my post is Harry's post. Literally. Copied and pasted. Only the job titles and locations were changed. Security guard for maintenance worker, C train for 52 trolley, 23rd Street for South Hills Junction, afternoon for morning. Otherwise, it is the exact same post.

Brilliant. Chris was busting your c.o.jones but you fished in the other 2 and proved what many of us already knew; they're bigots who only read what props up their beliefs.

Nice work.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street)

Posted by Fred G on Mon Jul 26 22:14:13 2010, in response to Re: SubChat Exposé (Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street), posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 14:48:06 2010.

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It would be sad if it wasn't so got-damn funny.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by TheCiskoKid on Tue Jul 27 09:43:39 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 26 21:54:14 2010.

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I'm talking about the "Rules of Conduct" brochure and you are speaking of the Supreme Court. Maybe it's that disconnect in your level of consciousness that is causing your problem. In the meantime, I've also heard that it might be your "less than conventional" appearance and your poor hygiene practices that may contribute to your problems. I don't know that to be true since I've never seen you but I discount nothing.

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jul 27 10:39:19 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by TheCiskoKid on Mon Jul 26 13:17:47 2010.

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I would think that the act of servicing an MVM would require security measures beyond those covered in the rules of conduct brochure.

Sure. I don't see why not. But those additional security measures would be the responsibility of NYCT to implement, and those additional security measures can not contradict the Rules of Conduct.

One such idea would be to put a portable screen or shroud around the MVM to prevent people from both SEEING and PHOTOGRAPHING what is going on in a public space. NYCT has every right to do that. But what they don't have a right to do is leave something in plain sight of the public and claim that photography of that thing is not permitted.


Take Pride,
Terrapin Station


Now featuring the RailfanWindow.com Blog!

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Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street

Posted by bmtlines on Tue Jul 27 10:54:06 2010, in response to Re: Encounter With Security Guard At 23rd Street, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jul 27 10:39:19 2010.

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Exactly!

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