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| (907650) | |
Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 3 15:59:30 2010 Must be right after service ended, but before the el was torn down. Looks like the station burned, is that soot above the windows.
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| (907656) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Mar 3 16:01:52 2010, in response to Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 3 15:59:30 2010. Sure is ... check the roof ... |
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| (907667) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 3 16:29:39 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Mar 3 16:01:52 2010. Yeah...insult to injury of it closing, it burned too...I wonder how many other ones did too. The neighborhood was falling ast there back then.Anyway....40 years later: View Larger Map |
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| (907669) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Mar 3 16:35:05 2010, in response to Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 3 15:59:30 2010. Site of Booth K-13.All you need is a picture of the same intersection in 2010. |
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| (907670) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Mar 3 16:35:54 2010, in response to Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 3 15:59:30 2010. Very sad sight. |
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| (907672) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Mar 3 16:41:44 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Mar 3 16:35:05 2010. Never mind I saw it.I didn't realise it until I blew up the picture and saw the Street Sign and the trees. |
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| (907679) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by bklynsubwaybob on Wed Mar 3 17:01:00 2010, in response to Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 3 15:59:30 2010. My home station was K-9 Vanderbilt Ave. I was good friends with the RR Clerk by the name of Neil Rizzuto. We use to joke about the station sounding like the Police Dep'ts K-9 force. |
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| (907697) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Wed Mar 3 18:19:10 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by bklynsubwaybob on Wed Mar 3 17:01:00 2010. How long after was the El taken down? |
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| (907700) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by 156n3rd on Wed Mar 3 18:35:13 2010, in response to Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 3 15:59:30 2010. Shameful. We moved out in January of 1968. The neighborhood is loaded with excellent architecture. At that time, there was lots of unrest. I went back there recently and it seems so serene. But Myrtle Ave. without the el is not right. The street is so naked and looks so small. |
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| (907719) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 3 20:18:31 2010, in response to Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 3 15:59:30 2010. Oh sure, after gripin about all those posts you bring up a photo of a line that's been scr...uhh never mind :D j/k.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Mar 3 23:41:56 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 3 16:29:39 2010. Heh, new condo on the right. |
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| (907863) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 07:25:19 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by italianstallion on Wed Mar 3 23:41:56 2010. Yup, what a difference 3 decades makes... |
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| (907866) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 4 07:36:54 2010, in response to Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 3 15:59:30 2010. You can see how lightweight that structure was, unlike other elevated lines around the city.your pal, Fred |
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| (907874) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 4 07:56:32 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by bklynsubwaybob on Wed Mar 3 17:01:00 2010. No relation to Phil?:) |
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| (907877) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by ebtmikado on Thu Mar 4 08:00:47 2010, in response to Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 3 15:59:30 2010. Next time you visit the Shore Line Trolley Museum, notice that many of the signal cases, masts and heads are former Myrtle Ave. El signal equipment, donated by the scrappers during the el's demolition. Lee |
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| (907894) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 4 08:38:11 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by ebtmikado on Thu Mar 4 08:00:47 2010. Nice!your pal, Fred |
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| (908051) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by bklynsubwaybob on Thu Mar 4 17:22:31 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 4 07:56:32 2010. Sorry, but no. |
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| (908054) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by bklynsubwaybob on Thu Mar 4 17:25:51 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Wed Mar 3 18:19:10 2010. I started working for the TA in Aug. '70 and I'm pretty sure it was up until late '70 with demolition complete in '71. |
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| (908057) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by bklynsubwaybob on Thu Mar 4 17:27:49 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by ebtmikado on Thu Mar 4 08:00:47 2010. I had no idea. What a nice gesture. Next time I'm up in Branford I'll check it out. Thanks. |
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| (908061) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 4 17:30:43 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by bklynsubwaybob on Wed Mar 3 17:01:00 2010. Lot of dogs at K-9? :-) |
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| (908062) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 4 17:31:04 2010, in response to Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 3 15:59:30 2010. excellento. Keep 'em comin'. |
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| (908067) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Mar 4 17:43:06 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 4 07:36:54 2010. Which is why it had to have been torn down.It probably would have had to have been anyway at some point unless it could get away with using IRT-sized cars OR the Myrtle Avenue El would have had to have been completely rebuilt to allow for BMT/IND sized cars running on it throughout its entire length. As said before, if it were up to me, I'd be looking at completely rebuilding the old structure and have it connect either at Metrotech or Court Street (after the Navy Street stop) with the Montauge Street line as an extended W train that could continue on the soon-to-be extinct current W route to Astoria. As I would also do it, this would be part of a complete rebuild that would allow ALL Myrtle Avenue El stations (new and existing) to platform 600' trains. |
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| (908075) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 4 18:13:28 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Mar 4 17:43:06 2010. All true, thanks!your pal, Fred |
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| (908092) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 19:00:18 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Mar 4 17:43:06 2010. Which is why it had to have been torn down.Not really. The J's Fulton St segment was a very similar structure, and it's still here, and running IND equipment. If the Myrtle had survived, it would probably look something like Alabama Ave to Crescent St looks like today, which stations were rebuilt in the 1980's. It probably would have had to have been anyway at some point unless it could get away with using IRT-sized cars In the late 60's, there was an R34 car (I think that's the number) that was designed, and it would have been an IRT like twin to the R32, and was supposed to run on the Myrtle El, and the 3rd Ave el in the Bronx. But unfortunately, it never came to pass. As said before, if it were up to me, I'd be looking at completely rebuilding the old structure and have it connect either at Metrotech or Court Street (after the Navy Street stop) with the Montauge Street line Never would happen. Great idea, and if it still was there, entirely possible, but once an el is gone, no way it will ever be rebuilt, the community outrage would be something like you never saw before. |
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| (908093) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 19:01:24 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 4 17:31:04 2010. Well, as long as we were talking "scrap", I figured we may as well be talking about a topic of something that IS scrapped! |
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| (908094) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 19:09:51 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by bklynsubwaybob on Thu Mar 4 17:25:51 2010. Yeah, it appears 1970 the el was already quite attacked, so it must have been gone soon after. 
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| (908126) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by Mattw@15st_prospect_park on Thu Mar 4 20:25:09 2010, in response to Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 3 15:59:30 2010. Very cool, thanks for posting this. |
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| (908161) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 4 21:31:34 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 07:25:19 2010. We need jobs. Let's build the Myrtle Avenue Subway . . . |
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| (908167) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 4 21:56:18 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 4 21:31:34 2010. The way things are in NYC it'll take years before digging starts.By then people will have other jobs. |
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| (908176) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 4 22:36:49 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 19:00:18 2010. I dunno, Chris, I think the Fulton segment of the J was built sturdier than the Myrtle was. At the time my uncle told me it wasn't strong enough to carry newer trains (not that he's an expert, but just a grownup then). Myrtle Aveneu with elevated remains  nycwubway.org photo segment of the J near Alabama. your pal, Fred |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 23:19:51 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 4 22:36:49 2010. I dunno, I don't disagree...but then again, the Broadway El has many sections of it's original 1888 beams too.... Picture these with all it's tracks taken off like the old section of the Myrtle left....   |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Mar 4 23:22:16 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Mar 4 17:43:06 2010. Why were the Myrtle Avenue and 3rd Avenue lines in The Bronx demolished in the first place? The bus routes that replaced the lines (B54, Bx15, Bx55 Limited) are almost always packed. |
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| (908191) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 4 23:37:22 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 23:19:51 2010. Those els ran under steam power when they first opened. How heavy were they? (Going over the Brooklyn Bridge, the cars were hauled by cables at first.) |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 4 23:40:54 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Mar 4 23:22:16 2010. Robert Moses was called a planner.DUM DUM DUM DUM DUM |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Mar 5 07:53:16 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 19:00:18 2010. You're thinking of the R-39 order. |
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| (908266) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 5 08:23:19 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Mar 5 07:53:16 2010. THAT's it!! They were supposed to be smaller scaled twins of the R38's, not the R32's....Thanks. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Mar 5 08:48:32 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 23:19:51 2010. Yeah I won't go to the wall over it; I'll wait till Mellow One or RandyO weigh in on it.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Mar 5 09:54:48 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 4 22:36:49 2010. AIUI, the bigger issue with new trains was the width dimension, as there was something about the structure of the Myrtle Av El that made shaving back the platforms difficult and expensive. I'm not entirely convinced that running Redbirds with modified door-sills on there wouldn't have worked, although that would still have kept the issue of having to maintain a small fleet of oddballs. Perhaps the thinking was that a common oddball design for the Myrtle and Third Avenue Els -- the latter certainly did have weight restrictions -- would have been better than two oddball designs. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Mar 5 10:00:17 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 4 23:40:54 2010. Yes, there seems to be a special sort of planning thought: the sort that's obviously wrong to any informed normal person, but that is very difficult to explain why it is wrong. I'm having this issue reading this series of three posts from the Human Transit blog: I know he's wrong, but... |
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Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Mar 5 10:11:07 2010, in response to Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Mar 3 15:59:30 2010. By the looks of the cars and the mercury vapor lamp, you're probably right about the timing. Thanks for posting, but it's very sad.My job takes me all accross the 5 boros. I have had occaisions where the MJ and the #8 would have come in very handy. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Mar 5 10:17:09 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 19:00:18 2010. The planned car for the 8 and the MJ was the R39. The R34 is actually the R11 after a 1965 rebuild. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Mar 5 10:20:41 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Mar 4 23:22:16 2010. I have a movie (VHS) of the 3rd Ave line in its last days (ther cars are already graffitied). The service appeared to have been very well used.Complete disgrace that these lines were lost. Back then, rail transit was considered antiquated, and the city fathers convinced everyone that the neighborhoods would improve without the Els... |
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Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 5 11:15:24 2010, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave and Myrtle 1970, posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 4 07:36:54 2010. The structure itself differed little from the existing Fulton St elevated section on the J. In fact, in the Alabama-Van Siclen Ave areas, it looks even stronger!Some of the support pillars were replaced by new, solid ones in the 1980's. But some of the lattice ones still exist and they existed for decades holding up behemoths like the Standards and R16's. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 5 11:21:04 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 4 22:36:49 2010. J train between Alabama and Van Siclen: Myrtle Ave el train between Navy and Vanderbilt:  I can confirm that between Alabama and Van Siclen, the lattice-style pillars are still the ONLY thing holding the structure up. You can see a few added cross-pillars on the first pic, but they are few in number. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 5 11:23:57 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 4 23:37:22 2010. There may have been a lower standard (or none whatsoever) back then for structural strength. Just because it didn't collapse under steam operations means it's safe. |
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Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 5 11:31:10 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 4 23:40:54 2010. He started the automobile religionDum Dum Dum Dum Dum |
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| (908333) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 5 11:42:17 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Mar 4 19:00:18 2010. It's nice to see that abandoning an el today is virtually impossible. |
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| (908348) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 5 13:24:34 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Mar 5 10:17:09 2010. Yes, I realize I used the wrong class. I did mean R39's being IRT like R38's.... |
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| (908350) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 5 13:26:17 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Mar 5 09:54:48 2010. I heard that too, but I can't believe that that would have been an obstacle. It was used as an excuse, but I am sure it's nothing they couldn't have worked around. |
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| (908352) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 5 13:28:38 2010, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue El, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 5 11:21:04 2010. The latticed style pillars also hold up much of the Broadway El between Kosciuszko St and Flushing Ave too.The Myrtle El and the J's Fulton St el were built quite similarly In fact, they appear almost identical in comparing the two photos. |
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