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| Track connections between LIRR and NYCT (739074) | |
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| (739074) | |
Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Jan 31 16:55:06 2009 I know there is one track connection between the LIRR (NY & A) Bay Ridge Branch and the NYCT at Van Sinderen Ave just north of New Lots Ave., (does the LIRR [NY&A] do interchange with Linden Shop at Linden Blvd. and Rockaway Pkwy?) and another near Wilson Ave., but are there any others, and where are they located? Also, does MNRR connect to NYCT anywhere at all? Thanks in advance. |
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| (739075) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 31 17:03:37 2009, in response to Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Jan 31 16:55:06 2009. I thought the switches between the Canarsie line and LIRR were ripped out. |
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| (739076) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Jan 31 17:06:00 2009, in response to Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Jan 31 16:55:06 2009. The only track connection between the LIRR and NYCT is inside a yard. |
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| (739077) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Jan 31 17:07:17 2009, in response to Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Jan 31 16:55:06 2009. I know there is one track connection between the LIRR (NY & A) Bay Ridge Branch and the NYCT at Van Sinderen Ave just north of New Lots Ave., (does the LIRR [NY&A] do interchange with Linden Shop at Linden Blvd.For quite a few years now, it is my understanding that these are no longer track connections, and the first two are now possible track connections. I am not sure about the Linden Shop's connection/possible connection. Also, does MNRR connect to NYCT anywhere at all? I don't think that it does. |
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| (739079) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Jan 31 17:30:15 2009, in response to Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Jan 31 16:55:06 2009. There are still connections between NYCTA and LIRR, they are needed to interchange equipment like sperry car, so it can travel to Danbury Ct for shop work.there is no MNCR to NYCTA connection. |
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| (739089) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by jabrams on Sat Jan 31 18:20:52 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Jan 31 17:30:15 2009. In theory there is still a connection via 1st and 2nd Ave's in Bay Ridge via the SBRR (by Costco) |
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| (739100) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Stef on Sat Jan 31 19:01:11 2009, in response to Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Jan 31 16:55:06 2009. At present, there are two track connections from NYCT to the rest of the world.1st Connection--- the Bay Ridge Line connects to NYCT from within Linden Yard. R142 Deliveries from Plattsburgh came down through Hell Gate/Fresh Pond on flat cars, and were delivered to Linden Yard on their own wheels with a NY and A Locomotive. Over the last few months, IRT access to Linden Yard was servered due to track maintenance on that lead. Only access to Linden Yard is from the Canarsie Line at Livonia Avenue. The old turnout from the Canarsie Line to the Bay Ridge Line near New Lots Avenue has been gone for years. 2nd Connection--- the SBK Connection (from the West End near 36th St) to the docks which also connects to the Bay Ridge Line. Way back when the Willy B was closed to subway service in 1988, trains of R27/R30's, were escorted from the Canarsie Line with diesels to SBK via the docks and Bay Ridge Routes. Those were the days!!! Past connections ---- south of East 180th St to the old New Haven, (ex-NYW and B) old IRT Cars were scrapped near the old bus depot in the vicinity of 174th St and the Cross Bronx Expwy, while brand new ACF R26's entered the system for the first time. 3rd Av El Willis Avenue Spur ---- with a connection to the old New Haven at 133rd St and the Harlem River. Long after the Willis Avenue Station closed, the track remained active. There's a photo of Steinway World's Fair Cars in the History of the Interborough Fleet by Cunningham, they were being delivered into the system by way of that connection. I think there was a thread about the Harlem River Yard and that connection some time ago. Lots of interesting stuff here..... If anyone else wants to chime in, go right ahead! -Stef |
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| (739116) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Jan 31 19:28:25 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 31 17:03:37 2009. That switch was removed a while ago.Both the BMT and IRT have a connection to Linden Yard. I think there's a connection to the LIRR in there. Or at least the old NY Connecting Railroad. |
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| (739133) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by checkthedoorlight on Sat Jan 31 20:02:25 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Stef on Sat Jan 31 19:01:11 2009. Does the 36 St Dock yard still have a connection to the Bay Ridge branch? It looks to me like the ONLY thing it still connects to is the West End subway line.BTW - is there, or has there ever been a connection between the Bay Ridge freight line and the Sea Beach? |
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| (739139) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sat Jan 31 20:22:32 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Stef on Sat Jan 31 19:01:11 2009. There was a connection between the IRT Queensboro/Steinway Line (7) and the LIRR/PRR just east of the Steinway portal at Hunters Point Avenue, removed in the 1920s/30s. |
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| (739140) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sat Jan 31 20:24:48 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by checkthedoorlight on Sat Jan 31 20:02:25 2009. Yes, a long street running single track via Bush Terminal and 1 Avenue to the LIRR/NYA Bay Ridge Yard. |
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| (739147) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 31 20:50:11 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Stef on Sat Jan 31 19:01:11 2009. If we're talking past connections, we can't forget about Chestnut St. And if I'm not mistaken there was a connection between the Brighton and the NY&MB (now Bay Ridge) near Ave H. |
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| (739154) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Stef on Sat Jan 31 20:56:15 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 31 20:50:11 2009. Yep!What about a connecting track from the Bay Ridge Line to the SBK at McDonald Avenue and Avenue I???? Parkville Junction, IIRC???? -Stef |
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| (739174) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Jan 31 21:47:53 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Stef on Sat Jan 31 20:56:15 2009. Isn't the SBK trackage along McDonald Avenue torn up for a while now? |
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| (739176) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sat Jan 31 21:52:44 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by daDouce Man on Sat Jan 31 21:47:53 2009. Long gone. A ShopRite sits on the Parkville Jct site. |
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| (739177) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jan 31 21:53:08 2009, in response to Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Jan 31 16:55:06 2009. Was there ever a connection between Corona Yard and the LIRR? |
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| (739178) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Jan 31 21:53:32 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 31 20:50:11 2009. And if I'm not mistaken there was a connection between the Brighton and the NY&MB (now Bay Ridge) near Ave H.The Bay Ridge Branch goes under the Brighton Line. The old Manhattan Beach Branch ran along side the Brighton south of the turn-off from the Bay Ridge Branch. But I don't think there was ever a connection along there between the Brighton and the LIRR. Maybe when Brighton and Manhattan Beach went to the Race Track that was over there. |
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| (739179) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sat Jan 31 21:54:40 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jan 31 21:53:08 2009. If there was one, it was in the early years. It would be more practical now the 7 is isoloated from the rest of system. |
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| (739180) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Jan 31 21:56:06 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Jan 31 21:52:44 2009. The last time I was on the F train over thereI saw a track comeing from the LIRR at Parkville toward McDonald. But the SBK trackage is long gone. |
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| (739183) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Jan 31 21:59:05 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Jan 31 21:54:40 2009. IIRC, Corona Yard was built at that location with the idea that the IRT would take over the LIRR ROW to Whitestone landing.But a track connection was never built. |
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| (739186) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jan 31 22:02:10 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by R42 4787 on Sat Jan 31 21:54:40 2009. I know that I've seen maps of one of the old World's Fair's and it showed a track connection, but it's could've been someone's imagination when drawing the map. |
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| (739257) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Sun Feb 1 01:25:01 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by daDouce Man on Sat Jan 31 21:56:06 2009. There are photos of R46s being delivered via Parkville, circa 1976. |
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| (739367) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 06:10:49 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by R42 4787 on Sun Feb 1 01:25:01 2009. How long since the link at Parkville been broken? |
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| (739393) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 1 09:52:43 2009, in response to Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Jan 31 16:55:06 2009. Lest we forget the connection that may or may not have been: Atlantic and Flatbush Aves. |
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| (739398) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Sun Feb 1 10:05:07 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Jan 31 17:30:15 2009. Did you make a typo, Dutch? If there are no connections between NYCT and MNRR, how can you get the Sperry to Danbury - which is on MNRR? Am I missing something? |
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| (739401) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Sun Feb 1 10:17:23 2009, in response to Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Jan 31 16:55:06 2009. There used to be from NY&ARR to Cross Harbor, that linked to the S.B.K. But the switches been welded on 1st avenue to they can't throw the switches. |
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| (739411) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 1 10:27:59 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Fulton Frank on Sun Feb 1 10:05:07 2009. via LIRR/Hellgate to MNCR, no typo. |
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| (739413) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Sun Feb 1 10:30:15 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 1 10:27:59 2009. Ah, Helgate...forgot. |
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| (739430) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 1 11:51:02 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 06:10:49 2009. IIRC, the SBK was shut down in 1980, and my guess is that the tracks were removed (or paved over) around the time the Culver shuttle structure was demolished. |
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| (739436) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Sun Feb 1 12:12:07 2009, in response to Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Jan 31 16:55:06 2009. There is a picture of the R44s being tested on the LIRR main line by Forest Hills on NYCsubway.org around 72/73'. So I always assumed there was some sort of connection between the Queens Blvd lines and the main line. But what do I know?:0P |
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| (739454) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 13:10:02 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Feb 1 11:51:02 2009. That sounds about right.About that time I was working at Church Avenue on the F on Thursdays. I was going to take a look at the Culver Shuttle. I decided to hold off on it for a week. A week later the structure was torn down. |
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| (739458) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 13:21:13 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Jan 31 17:07:17 2009. There was a connection between what is now MNRR and the IRT.Inside Grand Central Terminal there was on the lower level loop a single track that connected with the IRT. August Belmont built the connection so that his private train (The Mineola) could travel from the Hotel Belmont to Belmont Racetrack. The train would connect from the IRT to the LIRR just before Atlantic Avenue. |
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| (739459) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 1 13:29:13 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 13:21:13 2009. another urban legend, no evidence in old track diagrams or in way the walls are. |
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| (739462) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 1 13:44:09 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 1 13:29:13 2009. to back up my claim here is 1923 track digram of lower level.GCT 1923 lower level |
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| (739463) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 13:49:23 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 1 13:29:13 2009. It was never an "official" connectionanymore than the one at Atlantic Avenue was. |
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| (739464) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Feb 1 13:56:41 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 1 13:44:09 2009. Also it appeared that IRT was originally built so that NYC could punch out of GCT and extend south via the lower level; that operation would be very difficult now because of where the subway "box" is located. This was discussed in the years leading up to final ESA plans and in preliminary PSA (Penn Station Access) plans for MNCR as I recall. So yes, this seems like urban legend. |
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| (739476) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 1 15:37:48 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 13:49:23 2009. How would a subway car like mineola run on NYC third rail and IRT rail ????We still have not found a third rail shoe that can do that in 2009. Again there s no knock out wall or previousd connection not even an unofficial one. |
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| (739508) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 1 17:04:45 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jan 31 22:02:10 2009. I believe the R12-15's were delivered via Hall Gate, LIRR to NYCTA at Corona, and older IRT cars escaped that way and went over the NH connection to E180th Street. By the time the R12's escaped in 1963, it was gone. |
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| (739527) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by jabrams on Sun Feb 1 18:21:43 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Stef on Sat Jan 31 19:01:11 2009. Everybody is forgetting the most important track connection (if it existed) and that is between the IRT and the LIRR at Atlantic and Flatbush Aves. |
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| (739532) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 18:49:22 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Feb 1 13:56:41 2009. The connection was built for August Belmont.He was rich enough to afford it. The connection would be difficult now because it involved the original ROW for the subway. |
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| (739533) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 18:51:32 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 1 15:37:48 2009. Maybe the Minola didn't have a third rail.And on the lower level there's a rolling gate. |
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| (739536) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Feb 1 18:59:46 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 18:49:22 2009. The connection would be difficult now becauseit involved the original ROW for the subway. That's my point - as the subway was operating then, lower level GCT was supposed to be able to punch out to an extension southward, which was not actually built. The upper level was stub-end. Thus my belief that the so called Belmont connection didn't exist. |
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| (739537) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Feb 1 19:00:25 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 18:51:32 2009. Is there even any evidence that the Mineola made it on to LIRR, let alone through GCT? |
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| (739539) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 19:03:12 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Feb 1 18:59:46 2009. The lower level connection was never meant to be in regular servicefor everyone. It was a private connection built for and paid for by August Belmont. |
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| (739545) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 1 19:13:02 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 19:03:12 2009. As I said there is no evidence of a connection, not on engineering drawings or in real life, the track map of 1923 does not show it.Its an urban legend. Private car Mineola could not have operated on NYC and IRT third rail, we still do not have double sided third rail shoes in 2009 or did Belmont take those to his grave too ?? |
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| (739546) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Feb 1 19:14:52 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 19:03:12 2009. The lower level connection was never meant to be in regular servicefor everyone. It was a private connection built for and paid for by August Belmont. Okay but where is the evidence, if any, of this? I have a fairly good memory for these things and the MTA documents were explicit that no connection had ever been made from the lower level to the original subway box. After all, is there any evidence even that Mineola did LIRR-IRT trips? To my knowledge, there is not. |
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| (739547) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 19:21:16 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 1 19:13:02 2009. The connections were never official.When Belmont didn't ride the Mineola, those connections were never used. And after he died, those connections were likely removed. And maybe the Mineola never used third rail shoes. |
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| (739548) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 1 19:21:19 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Feb 1 19:14:52 2009. ADD to that that August Belmont may have been IRT president but railroads did and still do not see eye to eye with subways.Second point Augustus Belmont Died 4 years after GCT was opened, so how well was his health in last few years. |
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| (739549) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 1 19:22:28 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Feb 1 19:21:16 2009. Show us proof, don't just flap your gums, I have shown you earliest track diagram you have shown diddly squat. |
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| (739550) | |
Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Feb 1 19:28:45 2009, in response to Re: Track connections between LIRR and NYCT, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 1 19:21:19 2009. Quite true, except I thought that Belmont died in the 1920s?Anyway, I think the LIRR possibility is big enough of a reach (that's possible, if unlikely), the GCT connection is just strikes me as fiction. No evidence at all other than that Belmont had big bucks. Not enough to cut it, in my view. |
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