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| 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison (1639486) | |
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40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Feb 25 18:55:48 2025 LinkOther than that little fact, it's not that interesting an article. |
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| (1639492) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 25 21:51:36 2025, in response to 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 25 18:55:48 2025. Kinda "helps" when you force people to use it, right? |
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| (1639495) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber |
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Posted by zac on Wed Feb 26 00:34:57 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 25 21:51:36 2025. I worked on the east side near GCT for years. It was always a rush out the door for all the LIRR, NJT and NJ bus riders to get to the west side. It seemed to be a lot more people than took the subway all the way home. There were a few that took MN, but not that many.My office moved to Hudson Yards so they never got to take the LIRR from GC. A few did use Hunters Point, but you really had to rush out of the office for that. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1639498) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Feb 26 07:26:36 2025, in response to 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 25 18:55:48 2025. Don't think it was a choice when the existing service levels were split instead of the LIRR adding new GCM trains. |
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| (1639499) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 26 07:28:08 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber, posted by zac on Wed Feb 26 00:34:57 2025. Indeed, looking at the uptown E platform at Penn Station you'd see crush loads |
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| (1639500) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 26 07:29:51 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 25 21:51:36 2025. What force?I have never seen such a disgusting lack of appreciation for something so beneficial as LIRR riders have shown ESA. |
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| (1639503) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Feb 26 07:34:03 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber, posted by zac on Wed Feb 26 00:34:57 2025. That's one of the downsides of taking many years to get a single project done. The trend was perhaps there of everyone on the East Side trying to rush over to the West Side for their trains, but along the way Hudson Yards gets built.I'm not saying Hudson Yards alone changes the whole arrangement; I'm just using your example as an illustration that the city that planned GCM is different from the city that actually opened it. |
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| (1639506) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 26 07:59:07 2025, in response to 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 25 18:55:48 2025. Other than that little factIt's probably an overstatement. Those who travel to lower Manhattan via the subway from Flatbush Ave are not included in the MTA's Manhattan bound population. |
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| (1639508) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber |
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Posted by alm on Wed Feb 26 09:35:44 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 26 07:29:51 2025. Olog isn't an LIRR rider, so don't blame them for him. :)The point of the article is that it may have taken LIRR riders a lot of time, but they have grown to appreciate GCM. |
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| (1639510) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by alm on Wed Feb 26 09:39:15 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 26 07:59:07 2025. Those who travel to lower Manhattan via the subway from Flatbush Ave are not included in the MTA's Manhattan bound population.That makes good sense. 1. They aren't actually taking the LIRR to Manhattan, so it's literally correct. 2. That population was never part of the potential market for GCM. |
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| (1639518) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 26 13:44:08 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 26 07:29:51 2025. What force? It's not like they added trains to send into GCM. |
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| (1639519) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 26 13:45:42 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber, posted by zac on Wed Feb 26 00:34:57 2025. Sounds like a scheduling problem at the places of work, not the railroads. |
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| (1639522) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Wed Feb 26 14:34:18 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Feb 26 07:26:36 2025. Uh, wrong, Systemwide service levels were increased substantially when Madison opened. |
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| (1639527) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Joe on Wed Feb 26 17:57:34 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by alm on Wed Feb 26 09:39:15 2025. When the Pennsylvania RR opened Penn Station to LIRR trains in 1910, the Pennsy added a surcharge to the Long Island City fare, the surcharge perhaps because of the added mileage and maybe a tunnel construction toll. For the next fifty years, LIRR passengers avoided the surcharge when they went to LIC, Hunterspoint Avenue, or Flatbush Avenue. After a few years of MTA ownership, LIRR fares to those three terminals were raised to the Penn Station tariff.--- A neighbor worked at the Federal Reserve in lower Manhattan. She traveled on the LIRR to Flatbush Avenue and walked only a few steps to the IRT turnstiles. Quickly, she reached Wall Street station, three short blocks from her job. I suspect that when Flatbush Avenue fare was raised to the Penn Station price, Flatbush Avenue lost customers. |
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| (1639528) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Feb 26 19:30:39 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Feb 26 07:59:07 2025. "Those who travel to lower Manhattan via the subway from Flatbush Ave are not included in the MTA's Manhattan bound population."The MTA wants those passengers forgotten, especially as most of them now have an extra transfer at Jamaica. Their formerly direct trains are now heading for GCT. |
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| (1639530) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber |
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Posted by Allen45 on Wed Feb 26 21:03:00 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber, posted by alm on Wed Feb 26 09:35:44 2025. Eliminating timed transfers at Jamaica did not help |
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| (1639531) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Allen45 on Wed Feb 26 21:03:40 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Italianstallion on Wed Feb 26 14:34:18 2025. Most of the increase is converting Brooklyn trains into shuttles |
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| (1639534) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Feb 27 07:51:42 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Allen45 on Wed Feb 26 21:03:40 2025. Yeah, the implication was that GCM trains would be added to the existing schedule, instead existing service was redirected to GCM. |
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| (1639540) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Allen45 on Thu Feb 27 13:04:57 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Feb 27 07:51:42 2025. I could have told you that this was going to happen the minute they did the Jamaica track 11 and 12 project |
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| (1639543) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Thu Feb 27 13:49:14 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Feb 27 07:51:42 2025. Stop with the BS. From press release announcing new LIRR schedule:MTA Chair and CEO Janno Lieber today announced full Long Island Rail Road service to Grand Central Madison will take effect on Monday, Feb. 27, adding 271 LIRR trains per day, increasing LIRR systemwide service to 936 trains per day, of which 296 will be to or from Grand Central Madison. Service levels will increase 41% over today’s schedules of 665 daily trains and create reverse-peak service on the Port Jefferson and Ronkonkoma Branches for the first time. |
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| (1639545) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Feb 27 14:23:40 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Italianstallion on Thu Feb 27 13:49:14 2025. How many of the 271 added trains were Brooklyn shuttles? How many of the added trains were post-COVID restorations?GCM was pitched as provide an absolute expansion of service since in 2019 both Flatbush and Penn were maxed out. Instead Flatbush trains were redirected. |
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| (1639582) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Fri Feb 28 15:54:51 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Feb 27 14:23:40 2025. lol. You think they could have added anywhere close to 271 Brooklyn shuttles a day to the schedule? |
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| (1639587) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Feb 28 16:35:44 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Feb 27 14:23:40 2025. GCM was pitched as provide an absolute expansion of service since in 2019 both Flatbush and Penn were maxed out.But people who have looked at the timetables say that there are more trains to midtown now. Are you saying they are wrong? |
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| (1639588) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 28 17:45:04 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 26 13:44:08 2025. They did. 30 minute headways on the Hunt and RO lines. Hourly thru from West Hempstead. |
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| (1639590) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 28 17:47:27 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, says Lieber, posted by Allen45 on Wed Feb 26 21:03:00 2025. That was the tradeoff for more trains. |
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| (1639591) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 28 17:49:28 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 28 16:35:44 2025. There are, quite a few more. |
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| (1639592) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 28 17:51:53 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Allen45 on Wed Feb 26 21:03:40 2025. Nope. Check the schedules. Way more trains to midtown now. Off peak service on both Hempstead and Far Rock now goes to midtown. Half hourly service on both Huntington and RO branches. |
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| (1639596) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Feb 28 19:11:31 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Feb 27 14:23:40 2025. I agree-- we need to compare today with pre-2020 service levels. Based on the number of cars I see in the Baldwin LIRR lots on a routine basis, they can't possibly be running more service than pre-2020 because the demand simply isn't there. The lots used to be close to full almost every day, but these days are not even close to being full. East Side Access was built for a time that has come and gone. Certainly it's useful, especially if emergency reroutes are necessary, but it came at great cost. |
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| (1639597) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Feb 28 19:42:20 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Feb 28 19:11:31 2025. I checked with NYMTC's Hub Bound Reports for 2019 and 2023(the latest available). The figures come from a weekday in October of each year.According to inbound Queens table in Appendix III, Section C There were: 238 trains, consisting of 2502 rail cars and carrying 119,030 passengers in 2019. There were: 417 trains, consisting of 3610 rail cars and carrying 111,603 passengers in 2023. |
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| (1639601) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Allen45 on Fri Feb 28 20:18:17 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 28 16:35:44 2025. There may be more trains to midtown but how many more trains are there east of Jamaica or on the port Washington branch? |
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| (1639602) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Allen45 on Fri Feb 28 20:19:05 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Feb 28 19:11:31 2025. The best use of east side access is an allowance to have metro north trains at Penn station. That is it |
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| (1639606) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Feb 28 20:42:08 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Allen45 on Fri Feb 28 20:18:17 2025. I have no idea. But that's irrelevant to the assertion that GCM was simply populated by trains that were diverted from Penn. |
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| (1639607) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Feb 28 20:44:15 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Allen45 on Fri Feb 28 20:19:05 2025. Huh?Are you saying no one lives on Long Island and works much closer to GCT than to Penn Station? All those people who were on northbound E trains out of 34th/8th in the morning rush hour? |
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| (1639609) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 28 20:48:11 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Feb 28 19:11:31 2025. If the pandemic hit 10-15 years earlier, ESA might have never been built. |
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| (1639611) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Feb 28 20:51:43 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 28 20:48:11 2025. 10-15 years ago, large scale working from home wouldn't have caught on. Nowadays every white collar worker has moderately high speed internet at home. That wasn't the case in, say, 2010.My company didn't even issue its employees laptops on a regular basis until maybe 2012. |
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| (1639612) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by murray1575 on Fri Feb 28 20:54:32 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 28 20:44:15 2025. And others who took 1/2/3/A/C trains out of Penn Station to connect with the Times Square-Grand Central Shuttle and various bus lines to reach the East Side? |
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| (1639613) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Allen45 on Fri Feb 28 21:02:59 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 28 20:44:15 2025. The thing is now you’re having people taking trains to grand central and then transferring to go to the west side. |
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| (1639629) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 1 01:06:23 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Feb 26 07:26:36 2025. IAWTP |
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Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Sat Mar 1 11:33:11 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Feb 28 19:42:20 2025. Well, good, some real data to hopefully shut up the ignorant. |
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| (1639641) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Sat Mar 1 11:33:36 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Allen45 on Fri Feb 28 21:02:59 2025. Unlikely. |
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| (1639643) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 1 12:19:03 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Allen45 on Fri Feb 28 21:02:59 2025. Why would anyone do something dumb like that? So much easier to change in Jamaica for the next train to Penn.For example, there are 17 trains arriving in Penn from Jamaica between 7:46 AM and 8:46 AM. |
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| (1639653) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Allen45 on Sat Mar 1 18:28:40 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by AlM on Sat Mar 1 12:19:03 2025. Not when you have to go up and over for transfers at Jamaica that are no longer timed. Not when off peak port Washington service is hourly to Penn and hourly to grand central. Much easier to take the 42nd street shuttle than take your chances at Jamaica. You would be surprised at people wanting to take anything just to get into Manhattan and then deal with it from there. |
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| (1639654) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by JAzumah on Sat Mar 1 19:10:02 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by AlM on Sat Mar 1 12:19:03 2025. A seat... |
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| (1639680) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Mar 2 13:23:54 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by JAzumah on Sat Mar 1 19:10:02 2025. Still crazy.Say I work near Penn but I'll take a train to GCM and then take a subway? Not likely. If I'm desperate for a seat I'll just take the prior train, which goes to Penn rather than GCM. For example, coming from Ronkonkoma, I can arrive at Penn at 7:52, 8:10, and 8:46. Or I can arrive at GCM at 7:48 or 8:27. Why on earth would I take a GCM bound train and then have to take a subway in Manhattan. |
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| (1639681) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Allen45 on Sun Mar 2 13:55:57 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by AlM on Sun Mar 2 13:23:54 2025. Because if you miss the train arriving at 8:10, it is easier to wait 17 minutes in between trains than 36 minutes. Conversely, if I miss the Grand Central train arriving at 7:48, it would be easier to wait 22 minutes for the one arriving at Penn at 8:10 than to wait 39 minutes for the one arriving 8:27. |
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| (1639682) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Mar 2 14:24:27 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Allen45 on Sun Mar 2 13:55:57 2025. On the rare that I miss a train, I will take the next one, which is going to GCM even though I want Penn, and then wait 5 minutes at Jamaica for a train to Penn. If I don't get a seat, that's my minor punishment for missing the train.In any case, missing the train is an unusual case, and you can't make any arguments about ongoing habits based on that situation. |
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| (1639683) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Allen45 on Sun Mar 2 14:55:36 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by AlM on Sun Mar 2 14:24:27 2025. It is not an unusual case when it is many people who miss the train daily and timed transfers being eliminated making trips longer. |
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| (1639703) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Mar 3 07:30:23 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by AlM on Sun Mar 2 14:24:27 2025. I'm with you on this one. There's a schedule for a reason. The LIRR isn't meant to be a subway system where you just show up on the platform at a random time waiting for the next train and wondering where it is (although maybe up to Zone 4 it can be subway-esque). But for people out in Eastern Nassau and Suffolk I'd say just arrive at the station for a train going where you want it to go.Personal preferences are key too. Some people are focused on time where every minute counts. Others want the comfort. For me personally, if I lived out at a station like Huntington or Ronkonkoma I'd just plan for the train bringing me where I want to go. The concept of needing to buy minutes and change at Jamaica would be if I need to unexpectedly rush into Manhattan from my Long Island home - how normal is that? |
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| (1639708) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Mar 3 11:52:46 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Mar 3 07:30:23 2025. The LIRR isn't meant to be a subway system where you just show up on the platform at a random time waiting for the next trainThe subway system does have a schedule. |
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| (1639713) | |
Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Mar 3 13:41:55 2025, in response to Re: 40% of LIRR Manhattan Passengers now using Grand Central Madison, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Mar 3 11:52:46 2025. Indeed, but the schedule (and the keeping to that schedule) is such that there's little payoff for the average rider in knowing it in advance except overnight. |
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