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[PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jun 27 11:42:18 2018 
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Wed Jun 27 12:06:59 2018, in response to [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jun 27 11:42:18 2018. Sleeveless stripes? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jun 27 12:37:00 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by chicagomotorman on Wed Jun 27 12:06:59 2018. Sleeveless stripes?Good observation. Perhaps randyo or other may have an explanation for that wardrobe malfunction. This was back in the IRT days before City takeover. Bill Newkirk |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by chud1 on Wed Jun 27 12:51:06 2018, in response to [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jun 27 11:42:18 2018. 5 drooling stars out of 5 drooling stars for this picture.remember the dead mans feature. chud1. :)..... |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Wed Jun 27 13:25:52 2018, in response to [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jun 27 11:42:18 2018. ITS A hi-v,NOTICE THE CONTROLLER. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Jun 27 13:42:12 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by chicagomotorman on Wed Jun 27 12:06:59 2018. Maybe it was summertime? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jun 27 15:48:51 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by TUNNELRAT on Wed Jun 27 13:25:52 2018. So is the car he is passing- #3737- a modified Hi-V! |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jun 27 16:12:17 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jun 27 12:37:00 2018. I don’t think they're sleeveless. It’s just the way the seam shows up on the photo. By the way, that photo is taken from an IRT instruction book for M/M and in that book, the photo of the same M/M getting into the cab from the outside door shows a Lo-V whereas the inside photo is definitely a Hi-V. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Jun 27 17:23:34 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jun 27 15:48:51 2018. I looked over the nycsubway.org article on the IRT fleet - 3737 later was converted to a welding car.can you please explain what you mean by a modified Hi-V? In the list (nycsubway.org) 3700-3756; 3815 & 3915, were never made MUDC and remained manual (end doors) pneumatic (center doors) by modified Hi-V do you mean that these were converted/made into pilot cars, able to operate at the ends of trains, and have door indicator lights in them, as was done with some (all?) of the remaining Gibbs manual cars? Thanks. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Jun 27 17:33:45 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by randyo on Wed Jun 27 16:12:17 2018. The passenger end door to his right, looks wider than the end door of a Gibbs, and looks like it has two panels intead of the Hedley's three panel. could this interior cab shot, be in a deck roofer? |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jun 27 20:46:05 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Express Rider on Wed Jun 27 17:23:34 2018. To your last paragraph- yes! |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jun 27 21:02:47 2018, in response to [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jun 27 11:42:18 2018. How can the outside door open directly into the motorman's cab? At least that's what it looks like. Was there no actual cab? Or is that not the outside door marked "Please ke..."? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Jun 27 22:43:06 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jun 27 20:46:05 2018. Thank you! I did not know about 3737's modified motor statusI think a list might have been compiled of these modified Hi-V motors somewhere? I will go back to nycsubway.org, and see if this list is included. There was also the same kind of MUDC conversion list that appeared in Cunningham & DeHart's book (the IRT volume) - they might have also included a list of modified motors. The TA's PR dept. had BMT/IRT fleet rosters which they gave out. I still have mine and will look it over again - various groups of Gibbs (& Hedley's? - don't remember) were labeled modified motors - I originally took this to mean the additionn of center doors on the Gibbs cars/and or conversion to MUDC. It was only when Joe Frank answered my question clarifying what modified/pilot motors were some months back (Thank you Joe!) thaI I finally understood the term. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by gbs on Wed Jun 27 22:45:38 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jun 27 21:02:47 2018. It is the outside door because the "cab" was in the vestibule, but when used as a cab that door was disabled and didn't open for passengers. When not used as a cab, the controls were covered over so riders didn't have access to them. My two questions are: was there no side window that the operator could open for ventilation, since next to him was the outside door? Could he not sit down? From the photo it looks like there's no seat nearby. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Jun 27 22:54:53 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by gbs on Wed Jun 27 22:45:38 2018. IIRC from fantrips, when the vestibule was used as a M/M's cab, the outside door was held slightly open with some kind of metal pipe(?). So there was a opening, gap of several inches that allowed for ventilation.The vets on this board who operated Lo-V's & remember both Lo and Hi-V's in service, will be able to describe this arrangement much better than I have here. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 28 15:24:39 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Express Rider on Wed Jun 27 22:43:06 2018. When the Hi-Vs were first retrofitted with MUDC, only a limited number of the battleship (manual door) care were modified to run with them. The IRT tried as much as possible to keep the Gibbs cars on the lcl lines since their vestibules were slightly smaller than those on later Hi-Vs, deck roofers and up. The earliest Hi-V steel trailers while equipped with air doors were not MUDC but they didn’t have mechanical end doors either but like the earliest Lo-Vs coming in around the same time had handles that controlled the end and center doors of the cars separately which is why they din’t need a special center door cut out lock for curved platforms like So/Fy until after conversion to MUDC. In fact according to an old time M/M I knew, since the Flivvers were the first mainline Lo-Vs they were given the name “Flivver” because of the similarity of the pneumatic door handles to the cranks on the old time autos of the day. While the air only cars didn’t require as many C/Rs as the battleship cars did, the still needed a C/R between every 2 cars so when the iRT came up with MUDC, the Lo-Vs were the first cars converted. When the Hi-Vs started to be converted to MUDC, only the Hedley motors and a number of trailers were converted and the few Hedley that weren’t converted along with the deck roofers that never were, got modified to run as pilot motors to be used on the front and rear ends of 10 car Hi-V expresses assigned almost exclusively to the Bway Exp. The Gibbs cars were relegated to the Bway, Lenox and Pelham lcls where they ran in solid trains with unmodified Hi-V trailers. These consists still required a C/R between every car and while the conversion of the Hedleys to MUDC solved the labor problem on the express, the labor intensiveness was not solved on the lcl lines. sometime in the 1930s, a number of Gibbs cars were modified with MUDC and along with that the remaining Hi-V trailers were also MUDCed and all remaining battleship Hi-Vs were modified to run in trains with MUDC cars. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 28 15:30:19 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Express Rider on Wed Jun 27 17:33:45 2018. I thought about that, but the deck roofers’ cab doors were slightly different from the ones on the Hedleys The cab doors on the deck roofers were one piece from the middle of the door to the floor almost identical to the end doors on the Gibbs but without the “barrel belly” The Hedleys and all standard body Lo-Vs except for the 5600s, had panels in the door like the one in the photo. if it turns out that the car on the photo is a deck, the the only explanation could be that the cab door might have been replaced at some point by one left over from a Hedley or rvrn a Lo-V. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 28 15:57:15 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Express Rider on Wed Jun 27 22:54:53 2018. On MUDC cars, there was a small lever that allowed the end vestibule door to open. The M/M was the able to manually pull the door partially closed and secured with a bar that occasionally doubled as an armrest. On the battleship cars, the M/M would have to manually operate the door lever to get the door open the right amount so that the bar could be secured. On the deck roofers and up, the M/M’s seat was behind the rear cab door panel and was out of sight when the cab was not in use. On the Gibbs cars, since there was no true cab since the entire front platform was the cab, the seat just folded against the rear bulkhead of the vestibule. On the Gibbs cars, the seat folded DOWN from its fully seated position while on the later cars, the seat folded UP and was secured by a latch. As a side note, when the higher numbered Gibbs cars were converted to MUDC, the former end door of the car became a pseudo front part to a cab door and a door pocket and sliding storm door were added. The so called cab door really didn’t function as such since there was no back portion like the decks and Hedleys had so it just functioned as a door to cover the controls while the cab was not in use and since the sliding vestibule “merry widow” doors were retained, the modified Gibbs cars operated like the unmodifieds with full cabs. It should be noted that when the Composites which as built were almost identical in interior layout to the Gibbs cars were sent to the els, they were modified similarly to the MUDC Gibbs with a sliding storm door. The difference with those cars, however was the vestibule door was removed and the vestibule widened like the Hedleys and a back portion to a corner cab door was added. Since the vestibules were slightly smaller that they were on the decks and the Hedleys, when the cab was closed, the 2 portions of it bellied out a bit which may be why the identical modification wasn’t done with the Gibbs cars. Another distinctive feature on the MUDC Gibbs cars was that the end side doors of the cars which were originally wood, were replaced by steel doors with a single panel below the window and instead of having a vertical bar separating 2 side by side window panes, the end doors had a horizontal bar separating 2 window panes one above the other. I’m not sure why the iRT didn’t opt to have a single window like on the original doors, but the narrowness of the door was probably why the iRT opted for 2 panes one above the other instead of 2 very narrow panes side by side. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jun 28 16:03:19 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 28 15:57:15 2018. Randy, did any transit system have full MUDC with one conductor for a full trainset in the early 1900's? |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 28 17:22:10 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jun 28 16:03:19 2018. Not that I’m aware of although it depends on what you mean by “full MUDC” and a “full trainset.” By 1925, both the BMT and the IRT had rebuilt a large number of gated el cars with MUDC and those trains ran with full MUDC. However, many of the el trains on both the IRT and BMT consisted of gate cars so those trains of course were not MUDC. Even into the early 1960s, 10 car IRT trains of Lo-Vs still ran with 2 C/Rs and although I’m not sure of exactly when it was stopped, BMT trains of 8 steels ran with 2 C/Rs, the second carman being in the 2 car butt that was added to trains for rush hours. The IND had stopped using rear guards sometime in the mid 1950s, but it wasn’t until the early to mid 1960s that 2nd C/Rs were completely eliminated from the NYCTS. Into the mid 1970s, the Boston T even ran with 2 “guards” on 4 car trains. When SMEEs were first introduced to the Bway IRT in the mid 1950s, they ran in 9 car consists since the end doors of trains were past the ends of the platforms on most stations which worked OK for the Hi-Vs and Lo-Vs but not for the R types. The initial operation was interesting since a 2 C/R crew might go S/B to N/Lts with the rear guard just going along for the ride, but he might be needed for the return trip if it was a Hi-V. Once the Bway Line was virtually 100% SMEE, all Bway exps were 9 cars and as R types started to appear on the West Farms 7 Av service, 7 Av Bx trains were reduced to 9 cars including the Lo-Vs. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Jun 28 18:57:20 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 28 15:30:19 2018. Thanks for your explanation and details in both of these posts! |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Thu Jun 28 20:07:57 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Express Rider on Thu Jun 28 18:57:20 2018. Hello Express Man and AllThe motorman is standing in the vestibule of an IRT GIBBS Car -- the Gibbs car had 180 degrees swinging end storm doors. When the, a, motorman was in the operating position on the front vestibule of a train's with the head end car being a GIBBS car, the storm door was shut flush with the outside end bulkhead. He could open the drop sash window seen in the image (like later R-21's late had) to get outside rush of air. With the door closed that way, it kept the cold and rain and snow out of the vestibule. He had the whole vestibule to himself...precursor of later full width cabs of today. BEHIND the motorman were two sliding "parlor type" doors that slid into pockets in the two separate inner bulkhead walls --see photo below of inside of a Gibbs car with the doors shown in closed position to close off the motorman position on the vestibule.  Each door glass had a roller shade (dark green as I recall, I rode these cars in the 1950's) which was lowered to keep the interior car car lighting from shining thru to his darkened cab. Better for forward glass vision in dark subway tunnels. On the ends of Gibbs cars that were NOT operating positions, that 180 degrees swinging end storm door, was swung 180 degrees inward to close in front of the inside of the motorman window and cover the cab controls, gauges, etc. Like the later folding cab doors on other IRT cars with folding cabs. Thus, the vestibule on these GIBBS cars when coupled to another car, was exposed to the outside elements -- rain, snow, cold, etc) THAT'S WHY the twin end inside bulkhead parlor doors existed, to close off the car INTERIOR and passengers from same. In summer times, the inside twin parlor doors would be in closed (slid into their pockets) position to let air rush thru the cars to alleviate the heat. Of course, in a big rain storm, perhaps the conductor closed the doors. Many Gibbs cars were converted to MUDC with new side doors in the vestibule -- and a new outside storm door that slid into a pocket - with the original storm door retained to cover the operating controls  I rode these (and deck Roofers) on head end of both IRT East Side Pelham Line and IRT West Side (IRT Broadway Line)in the 1950 thru 1958 periods when they were removed. HATED the Gibbs cars then because of the full width cab -- BUT REVERE THEM NOW FOR NOSTALGIA AND MEMORIES. Below are two photos of my fully scratch-built IRT GIBBS Car seen at the rear of a local train at an EL station on my "EL"...   Regards - Joe F |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Thu Jun 28 20:17:33 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Thu Jun 28 20:07:57 2018. Nice. The interiors of the old school trains were always looked so comfortable. I'm guessing each respective company got rid of the cushion for vandalism reasons? |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Jun 28 21:26:24 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Thu Jun 28 20:07:57 2018. I wonder if Seashore's 3352 still has any of those parlor doors. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Thu Jun 28 21:26:52 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Thu Jun 28 20:07:57 2018. Hello Express Rider & Randy OMY CORRECTION added .... In closer inspection of the cab door (and Motorman forward Glass "window") I now believe that EXPRESS RIDER may be correct and it may likely be a DECK ROOF Hi-V car. My previous post, tho factually interesting on a Gibbs Car, was in ERROR for the MOTORMAN photo carbody. The Deck Roof and HEDLEY Hi-V cars had a sliding end storm door -- and the swinging cab door in the MOTORMAN photo appears to have the upper drop sash panel (just an opening -- no glass) for cab ventilation with cab door closed. Deck, Hedley and Low-V's shared similar doors. There is no "bulge" in the bottom section of the cab door which was to compensate for that HUGE H-V controller on GIBBS cars -- because the 180 degree swinging door could not close flush to the controls without it. Also, because the side sliding door appears to have a two window set and TWO LARGE indented panels in the lower part of the side door, like deck roof (and GIBBS) cars had. See my O-Scale Models -- a Deck roof at left and Gibbs at right -- TWO PANEL side doors.  >>>> I suggest the the motorman is likely inside DECK ROOF Hi-V Motor Car. The side-door "panels" are very deep - while the HEDLEY Car 3 side panels are narrower. Some construction facts: a) - NOTE: the DECK ROOFERS had a narrower end "sliding" storm doors which was WOOD b) - NOTE: the just earlier built GIBBS CAR had narrower original "swinging" end storm doors which were steel c) - Both GIBBS and DECK ROOF cars had a slightly wider pair of outside end bulkhead windows aside the center storm doors. d) - The end outer bulkheads with these windows were also slightly wider than found on later built Hedley Hi-V and later Low-V Standard Body steel car bodies having wider end storm doors. See my photo BELOW in 1958 at the old former Starlight Amusement park grounds just west along the ex-NYW&B Railway 4 track main in the Bronx near E. 174th Street - grounds used to scrap old IRT EL & Subway cars (and some BMT EL Gate cars!)  Note the Hi-V GIBBS CAR at left and the Hi-V Deck Roof Car at its right --- both have narrow storm door entry opening and slightly wider end windows in their slightly wider bulkheads. HOW do I know the car at left is a GIBBS car ? Because the GIBBS CARS were the only "steel" body IRT subway cars that had an entirely all WOOD and CANVAS COVERED upper clerestory roof with steel rib under-framing !! And note the wood roof and canvas is burned away after the cars were set afire for scrapping the remaining steel ! Also see my photo below taken that same day in 1958 of a Hedley Hi-V Manual Doors Motor Car (aka Modified Motor because it was fitted with Motorman door indication signal lamp to run as the Pilot or head end car in a Hi-V train of MUDC Cars)  Note its end windows are a bit taller and thus narrower - as are the end bulkheads - than those of GIBBS and DECK ROOF cars - while its wider sliding end steel storm door is opened slid into its pocket, what you see in the doorway opening is the motorman "cab door" that would cover the cab controls and motorman's cab glass. And its side steel sliding vestibule doors have 3 narrow panels So, I agree that the motorman in the photo is in a DECK ROOF Hi-V Car with the wider motorman window. Sorry for my original posting error - well, the photos were nice anyway ! regards - Joe F |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Jun 28 21:29:11 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Thu Jun 28 21:26:52 2018. Joe, what is the link to your website with photos of your El layout? |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Thu Jun 28 21:46:10 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by FtGreeneG on Thu Jun 28 20:17:33 2018. Hello Ft GreenWell, there was little seat vandalism on the old IRT and BMT El cars and Steel pre war BMT and IRT Subway cars -- all of which I rode (well, those still in operation between mid 1940 and 1969, heh) They had that relatively hard "rattan" seat covering (looked like corn on the cobb, joking) and that was hard to cut with switchblades that the many punks in the 1960's and later carried. The first post war subway cars (other than R-10,12-14-15 classes which had a newer and colorful design variation of that earlier yellow rattan) - the BMT R-16's and IRT R-17's and 21's came with red vinyl covered, foam filled nice comfy seat cushions. The punks soon really enjoyed slashing them up -- like cutting into a piece of bread or cake ! It was by the IRT R-26's and later that the hard plastic "vandal proof" seats -- tho not graffiti proof, heh, came about. And older post war cars got retrofitted with same. A few of the old IRT Low-V's - and some IND R-1/9's and some BMT Standards - had their rattan covered seat cushions with the red vinyl -- others had foam covered cushions installed in the 1956-57 period. See IND car below with this red vinyl covering over the seats.  But yes, that's why NYC Subway seats are hard (and not comfy) like the seats i rode on so long ago. regards - Joe F |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Jun 28 22:06:32 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Dave on Thu Jun 28 21:29:11 2018. Found it! |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Thu Jun 28 22:13:03 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Dave on Thu Jun 28 21:29:11 2018. Hello DaveHere are the Links - LINKS to my FLICK SITE Pages -- and a Personal custom Webpage site I wrote up myself using HTML code and my You Tube Page Layout Videos Dave -- its QUITE A LOT to see -- but I suggest using the FLICKR PHOTO ALBUMS Page to start -- where all the photos are grouped by scene subject matter, rolling stock class - scene location - scene subject, and a few albums showing my original HO NY EL Layout from 1965 thru 1984 era (stored presently) Perhaps I may have an open house for any sub chatters that would want to visit and see and run it, photograph it, etc., ---just as I have had for past small groups of 15 or fewer interested visitors over the years -- the last group was just a few weeks ago May 31st Thursday. Spent the whole day here - we had a great time -- all went out to eat dinner later -- LINKS to 5 websites for my NYC MODEL TRANSIT SYSTEM Layout MAIN "Photostream" Page -- newest photo always go to TOP of page The "PHOTO ALBUMS" Page -- photos groups by subject, topic, genre, etc My "Favorites" Page -- Photos of my Models and those of other Modelers (some pics OF me also) My PERSONAL Website I wrote-created for the Layout My YOU TUBE Channel Site - for the Layout Videos Well, thats it -- a bit over 5 decades lifetime of model making work regards ! - Joe F |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Jun 29 02:26:57 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Thu Jun 28 21:26:52 2018. Hello Joe F..Thanks (as always) for posts like these. You clarified other details about the Deck Roofers that I wasn't aware of, having never ridden them in service (i.e. the cab doors). I have seen and been inside 3662, but that was only once, and it's hard to do comparisons when the cars are not side by side, or having been able to see Gibbs, Decks, Hedleys, & Lo-V's every day in passenger service. I was only going by what I seemed to see in the side passenger door - that it looked wider than those found on the Gibbs, and that it looked as though it had those two indented panels like the Decks (rather than the Hedley's three panels), which were differnt in design from the two panels on the Gibbs' side doors. It's not always clear what kind of car is in these older photos - some details are visible, or somewhat visible and/or under exposed while other details are hidden or not in the picture at all. Thanks again, Best, Ed Express Rider |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by chud1 on Fri Jun 29 04:58:00 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Thu Jun 28 20:07:57 2018. 5 drooling stars out of 5 drooling stars for pictures and explanation.chud1. :)..... |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Fri Jun 29 05:17:22 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Thu Jun 28 21:46:10 2018. A Shame ppl messed a good thing up as. And pls forgive me I forgot to add nice pics! |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jun 29 18:20:19 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Jun 28 21:26:24 2018. If I recall from when I was there, it does. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jun 29 18:30:10 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Thu Jun 28 21:26:52 2018. If you take a good look at the cab door on the Hedley, the paneling below the drop sash is identical to the one in the original photo which would mean that the car is either a hedley or a deck with a Hedley cab door. the cab doors on the decks were almost the same as the storm doors on the Gibbs except that the smooth metal panel that made up the lower portion of the door was flat instead of having a belly. By the way, according to an old time IRT T/D I worked with the decks, Hedleys and all the Lo-Vs had windows in the cab doors like the Gibbs originally did supposedly to illuminate the controls for the M/M. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jun 29 18:38:45 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Thu Jun 28 20:07:57 2018. As originally built, the sliding vestibule doors on the Gibbs and Composites had pull down shades. When I rode them in the 1950s, the shades had been removed and the glass panes painted Pullman green to match the car interiors with the exception of the bottom 8 inches or so of the windows which was left clear. A photo I have seen of a Composite as delivered seems to show that the entrance to the vestibule was narrower than it was on the Gibbs closed off by a single door about the width of a normal storm door and the offside rear bulkhead of the vestibule seems to have a clear glass in it possible a RFW instead of the solid panel like the Gibbs. It’s highly likely that when the Composites were modified for el use and got Hedley style corner cabs, the vestibule door became the sliding storm door. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jun 29 19:44:51 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by randyo on Fri Jun 29 18:20:19 2018. IIRC it had a partial restoration done; the center doors have been removed. Back in the days of Subtalk it was mentioned that 3352 could limp along, but still needed a lot of work. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Fri Jun 29 20:12:18 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by randyo on Fri Jun 29 18:38:45 2018. Hello Randy O---YES ! I do remember some of the cars (could have been those MUDC converted GIBBS car) that had the dark green covering (I guess like you stated it was dark green paint) with that clear 8 or so inches of clear glass at the bottom. I remember walking to the front of a head-end Gibbs car in the very early 50's (I didn't know then that is was a (called a) Gibbs car, or any tech stuff yet) and squatting down, bending my head upward, looking UPWARD thru that small glass opening and seeing, thru the darkened vestibule, the tunnel lights passing the motorman's window, the storm door (he had it's upper drop sash lowered) and left side window. After about 5 or so minutes in that uncomfortable head bent up, body squatting down...I lost the "thrill" of being at the head end -- gave up and sat down next to my father on the car. I don't remember if it was an MUDC Gibbs or not. I did ride a few of the Manual Door Gibbs cars (Modified Motors) that were at head ends on some locals (E. Side Pelham & W. Side IRT) and vividly remember the door shades still in them -- you could see the worn faded fabric on the vestibule side of the glass windows in the vestibule "parlor" sliding doors (heh). In one case the shades were pulled all the way down. Those Modified Motor Gibbs likely became the last and sole surviving Hi-V Motor work horses along with the few Manual door HEDLEY and Deck Roof Cars - as the R-17' and R-21's came on the East & West side IRT between late 1955 and early 1957. Thanks for the Painted Glass "heads up" -- either forgot that or didn't realize 63 years ago then now, heh, that it was "paint". regards - Joe F |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Jun 30 04:51:01 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by randyo on Fri Jun 29 18:38:45 2018. When I rode them in the 1950s, the shades had been removed and the glass panes painted Pullman green to match the car interiors with the exception of the bottom 8 inches or so of the windows which was left clear.I remember hearing that. Were the windows painted during WW II ? Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by BMT Standard on Sat Jun 30 16:54:05 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 28 17:22:10 2018. The IND division only used a second C/R on 11 car trains which ran on the E and F into the mid-1950s. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jun 30 20:59:57 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by BMT Standard on Sat Jun 30 16:54:05 2018. And if you watch the beginning of The Wrong Man, you can see a conductor between the first and second cars of the Ethel train that Henry Fonda steps off of at Roosevelt Ave. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jun 30 21:03:18 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Fri Jun 29 20:12:18 2018. Three of the original Gibbs Hi-Vs lasted until the spring of 1958. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jul 1 17:44:25 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by BMT Standard on Sat Jun 30 16:54:05 2018. According to the old timers, 2 C/Rs were used on 10 car trains. One of them told me that circa 1956, the TA was going to eliminate the rear guards by reducing maximum length train consists to 9 cars but when the pick minus the rear guards went into effect, C/Rs were surprised to discover that the trains were still 10 cars. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jul 1 18:21:44 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jun 30 21:03:18 2018. They might have even lasted a bit longer than than since I recall seeing a work train near 242 St towards the end of 1958 that had a Gibbs on it. |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by Strike_Mark on Mon Jul 2 00:48:17 2018, in response to [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jun 27 11:42:18 2018. Is it just the angle of the photo, or is the reverser centered? |
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Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jul 2 01:36:22 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] MOTORMAN, posted by Strike_Mark on Mon Jul 2 00:48:17 2018. The reverser is centered. |
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