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| Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning (1377833) | |
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| (1386261) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by K. Trout on Sat Feb 20 15:09:01 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 20 11:19:30 2016. It serves the Qrighton line, didn't you know? :) |
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| (1386263) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Feb 20 15:58:26 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 20 13:59:25 2016. In an another reading or video it was said that many of the current (or near current) subway routes obtained their names from reading the subway map from left to right, the way in which most reading is done in the US. That is at a period when all of the subways were joined under one umbrella, and the various lines had to be sorted out.That is starting from the left or west are the lowest letters or numbers, and they get higher as one moves to the right. Of course the naming convention is not "pure" as there have been plenty of changes over the years even if the basic model mostly holds. Of course with the IND system being the city's municipal subway their naming convention remained the same, while naming conventions for the BMT and IRT were created. I'm not saying that there was not some "orderliness" to the naming schemes, as well as some instances of naming the M, MM or MJ for the Myrtle Avenue line, etc. I'm simply saying that the route names are NOT named in relation to boroughs! The AA-train may have been an Eighth Avenue local train, but it was not named, the "Manhattan Local Train 33". In the subways that we don't have a scheme like the M-22 and the B-22 or Bx-22 bus lines for the totally separate Manhattan, Brooklyn and the Bronx bus routes. Mike |
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| (1386264) | |
Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by chud1 on Sat Feb 20 15:58:28 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by merrick1 on Sat Feb 20 12:04:02 2016. IAWTP!chud1. :)..... |
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| (1386265) | |
Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Feb 20 16:08:59 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 20 14:07:26 2016. I'd love to have a system where the N-train was all express in Brooklyn and Manhattan - and did not at any point share its tracks with the R-train. For that I'd have to go back to the 1970's before the fiscal crisis with the RR having an almost free reign on the trip through Manhattan, and the N-trains ending at 57th Street-Seventh Avenue.The bad part is that to do that, I'd have to bring back the EE, the blue M, the short-turn rush hours only R-trains to Chambers Street. "You Can't Win" - LOL. Mike |
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| (1386266) | |
Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 20 16:18:08 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by Michael549 on Sat Feb 20 16:08:59 2016. It's not that hard. Just switch the N and Q north of Canal after SAS opens. N to 96th, Q to Astoria. N and R never have to meet then. This is actually something realistic that can happen. It's almost haphazard that the Q will be the SAS train; it can just as easily be the N. Same yard access, same cars, relatively same frequency. |
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| (1386267) | |
Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by SI 93 on Sat Feb 20 16:27:14 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 20 15:04:28 2016. If the W train was extended to 9th Av, how many more cars would be needed for this extension? |
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| (1386268) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 20 16:33:24 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Feb 20 12:23:46 2016. Correct. Not only that but unlike the IND which tied the branch line route letter to its manhattan trunk line (with the exception of the GG and HH) BMT numbers were not similarly linked. The Southern Div branch lines carried the same numbers regardless of whether the trains operated via the Bway Subway or the Nassau St Line. Unfortunately, when the TA decided to assign IND style letters to the BMT it linked most of the branch lines with the Bway Subway with the exception of the TT West End lcl which was either a Nassau St route or a Stl to 36 St shuttle. The so called planners in the TA seemed to have forgotten the 4 Av and Brighton Nassau St Bankers’ Specials and in the case of the 4 Av neglected to include a single letter R for a 4 Av Express. The planners even stupidly went so far as to eliminate the branch line names from the R-32s and 38s on the grounds that since Neither the IRT nor the IND had the branch lines on their signs but only the Manhattan trunk line why should the BMT have something the other divisions din’t have. Of course they totally ignored the fact that unlike the other Divisions, the BMT was the only Division that had all its Southern Div trains going to a common terminal via different routes. IMNSHO, if the TA was going to use letters, it should have used only the branch line names and forgot about either the Bway or Nassau St designations. The Manhattan centric planners also removed the Eastern Div route names from the readings instead calling the routes by the Nassau St designations: J/JJ, KK and M the last one initially being erroneously used to describe both the Brighton and 4 Av Bankers’ Specials until it was eventually assigned to the line it was intended for in the first place, the Myrtle/Chambers (later Broad) service. |
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| (1386269) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 20 16:35:31 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Michael549 on Sat Feb 20 12:51:35 2016. The reason the subways don’t use the borough designation is because most of the subway lines travel between several boroughs unlike surface lines which for the most part stay within a single borough or predominantly in one or the other. |
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| (1386270) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 20 16:41:03 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 20 11:53:04 2016. Actually, I have a photo of an R-1 mockup which shows a route number in the sign box. It seems that after Hylan when the city offered the new subway lines to the BMT it was initially intended to continue the BMT route numbering system on the new lines. When the BMT declined, the city developed its lettering system which in a rather strange twist of fate ended up being applied to the BMT. |
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Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 20 16:47:05 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 20 16:18:08 2016. I think the problem with that is that Brighton passengers want Bway Express service which would probably be lost if the Q were sent to Astoria full time.. |
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Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 20 16:53:19 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 20 16:47:05 2016. Why is the Sea Beach line 2nd fiddle to the Brighton ? |
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Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 20 17:00:39 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 20 16:47:05 2016. I think the problem with that is that Brighton passengers want Bway Express service which would probably be lost if the Q were sent to Astoria full time..Switching the late 2016 N with the Q in Manhattan only affects service at a single local station: 49th Street. If Brighton riders feel an inherent right not to stop at 49th street, that's absurd. On the other hand, why change the N and Q just to confuse everyone? No reason for that either. |
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Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 20 17:03:25 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by SI 93 on Sat Feb 20 16:27:14 2016. 40 minutes round trip (see the R schedule), 6 tph: means 4 train sets. |
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Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 20 17:45:06 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 20 16:53:19 2016. because it doesn't fill both a local and express in base day service. I don't have rider stats, but I bet the ## from the portal to CI are greater than those from 59th to CI. |
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Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 20 17:55:13 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 20 17:00:39 2016. If they swapped, Upper Second Avenue would have over-night service to Wall Street. Probably not very important. |
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| (1386279) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Feb 20 17:57:02 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 20 16:35:31 2016. "The reason the subways don’t use the borough designation is because most of the subway lines travel between several boroughs unlike surface lines which for the most part stay within a single borough or predominantly in one or the other."Agreed, but even when a line "stayed" within its own borough, say the AA, or the Third Avenue El #8, Rockaway's HH operation - the route did not have a designation that indicated which "borough" it belonged to. Again unlike our bus system. The equation of QB means "Queens & Brooklyn" is what I'm saying is false - a statement that was made earlier on in this thread. The other aspects of orderliness, IND influences, etc. are all fine. Mike |
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| (1386280) | |
Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Feb 20 18:29:51 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 20 16:53:19 2016. Why is the Sea Beach line 2nd fiddle to the Brighton ?Because there is less to fiddle with? LOL! Mike |
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Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 20 18:41:23 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by Michael549 on Sat Feb 20 18:29:51 2016. (Q) is 24/7 (N) is Not. |
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| (1386283) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sat Feb 20 18:49:06 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 20 13:59:25 2016. QJ Q train to Jamaica |
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| (1386284) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sat Feb 20 18:52:17 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 20 16:41:03 2016. 
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Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 20 19:19:38 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 20 17:03:25 2016. If the "R" service is as bad as I have read here, wouldn't the "W" help local riders north of 36St/4Av? |
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| (1386288) | |
Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 20 20:38:30 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 20 18:41:23 2016. You are incorrect. |
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| (1386289) | |
Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 20 20:40:30 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 20 19:19:38 2016. Of course it would. All it takes is cars and money. |
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| (1386291) | |
Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 20 20:51:59 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Feb 20 18:41:23 2016. Broadway Lion don't know because lions sleep at night, all night. |
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| (1386294) | |
Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 20 21:01:44 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 20 15:04:28 2016. It has more than floated here before that WE DON'T HAVE THE CARS for your idea.It has also been stated that there will be a severe car crunch to bring back the W. |
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Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 20 21:04:49 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by INDviaCulver on Sat Feb 20 00:13:44 2016. That may be true, but at the time, the consist of the trains was 8 X 60 footers. taking a random time from 0800-0820 that would mean 50 cars in that 20 min period. With the current consist of the trains being 10 X 60 footers the same passenger carrying capacity in that same random period can be accomplished with a 5 min headway. |
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| (1386297) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 20 21:21:27 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Michael549 on Sat Feb 20 17:57:02 2016. It would really make little sense to name only one or two lines which operate totally within one borough since most of the lines operate in more than one borough and at one time the C operated in all four boroughs that are served by the NYCTS. In that case which borough letter would you assign to that one. Almost all the other subway lines operate in 3 boroughs and with the exception of the ones you mentioned all operate in at least two. |
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| (1386298) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 20 21:23:04 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Feb 20 18:52:17 2016. Well that photo is specifically of a train of R-1s that was tested on the BMT prior to the opening of the IND. By that time the city’s lettering system had been established. |
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| (1386299) | |
Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Feb 20 21:28:47 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 20 10:05:09 2016. Uneven spacing so as to shoehorn in R trains in the longer gaps, correct ?They don't do a very good job of keeping uniform headways, when the R is included. Again, cut and paste into a spreadsheet. Database: SubwaySchedules DataSet: 14 - 20151207 - Date: 2016-02-17 Route, Direction, Origin, Destination Q, 1, Astoria - Ditmars Blvd, CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV N, 1, Astoria - Ditmars Blvd, CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV R, 1, Forest Hills - 71 Av, 59 ST R, 1, Forest Hills - 71 Av, BAY RIDGE - 95 ST R, 1, Forest Hills - 71 Av, WHITEHALL ST Stop: R11 - Lexington Av/59 St "Arrival Time";"Route";"Direction";"Trip";"Destination";"Origin Id";"Origin";"Departure Time";"Travel Time";"Headway" "00:07:30";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_143400_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"23:54:00";"00:13:30";"00:00:00" "00:24:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_001050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"00:10:30";"00:13:30";"00:16:30" "00:44:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_003050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"00:30:30";"00:13:30";"00:20:00" "01:04:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_005050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"00:50:30";"00:13:30";"00:20:00" "01:24:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_007050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"01:10:30";"00:13:30";"00:20:00" "01:44:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_009050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"01:30:30";"00:13:30";"00:20:00" "02:04:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_011050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"01:50:30";"00:13:30";"00:20:00" "02:24:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_013050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"02:10:30";"00:13:30";"00:20:00" "02:44:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_015050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"02:30:30";"00:13:30";"00:20:00" "03:04:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_017050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"02:50:30";"00:13:30";"00:20:00" "03:24:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_019050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"03:10:30";"00:13:30";"00:20:00" "03:44:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_021050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"03:30:30";"00:13:30";"00:20:00" "04:04:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_023050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"03:50:30";"00:13:30";"00:20:00" "04:24:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_025050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"04:10:30";"00:13:30";"00:20:00" "04:44:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_027050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"04:30:30";"00:13:30";"00:20:00" "05:04:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_029050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"04:50:30";"00:13:30";"00:20:00" "05:24:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_031050_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"05:10:30";"00:13:30";"00:20:00" "05:40:30";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_032700_N..S23R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"05:27:00";"00:13:30";"00:16:30" "05:42:00";"R";"1";"B20151206WKD_031700_R..S71R";"BAY RIDGE - 95 ST";"G08S";"Forest Hills - 71 Av";"05:17:00";"00:25:00";"00:01:30" "05:50:30";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_033700_N..S23R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"05:37:00";"00:13:30";"00:08:30" "05:55:30";"R";"1";"B20151206WKD_033050_R..S71R";"BAY RIDGE - 95 ST";"G08S";"Forest Hills - 71 Av";"05:30:30";"00:25:00";"00:05:00" "06:00:30";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_034700_N..S23R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"05:47:00";"00:13:30";"00:05:00" "06:08:30";"R";"1";"B20151206WKD_034300_R..S71R";"BAY RIDGE - 95 ST";"G08S";"Forest Hills - 71 Av";"05:43:00";"00:25:30";"00:08:00" "06:12:30";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_035700_N..S23R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"05:57:00";"00:15:30";"00:04:00" "06:16:30";"Q";"1";"B20151206WKD_036200_Q..S55R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"06:02:00";"00:14:30";"00:04:00" "06:20:30";"R";"1";"B20151206WKD_035500_R..S71R";"BAY RIDGE - 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STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"22:48:30";"00:14:30";"00:03:30" "23:07:00";"R";"1";"B20151206WKD_136200_R..S71R";"BAY RIDGE - 95 ST";"G08S";"Forest Hills - 71 Av";"22:42:00";"00:25:00";"00:04:00" "23:09:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_137550_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"22:55:30";"00:13:30";"00:02:00" "23:14:30";"Q";"1";"B20151206WKD_138100_Q..S55R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"23:01:00";"00:13:30";"00:05:30" "23:20:30";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_138700_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"23:07:00";"00:13:30";"00:06:00" "23:33:30";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_140000_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"23:20:00";"00:13:30";"00:13:00" "23:49:00";"N";"1";"B20151206WKD_141550_N..S20R";"CONEY ISLAND - STILLWELL AV";"R01S";"Astoria - Ditmars Blvd";"23:35:30";"00:13:30";"00:15:30" |
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| (1386302) | |
Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 20 22:09:46 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 20 17:55:13 2016. And Astoria would lose such service. The East Side already has the Lexington to get to Lower Manhattan, so probably good to leave it all alone. |
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| (1386303) | |
Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 20 22:14:10 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 20 16:53:19 2016. Because off-hours there is only one choice of Brighton service, but three lines down 4th Ave. Brighton at that time gets no cross-platform transfer for 6th Ave (D) service. Yet there is lots of patronage down the Brighton line. So the one line it does get should be an optimal one.If you live on the Sea Beach you get almost full-time express service up 4th Ave, with same-platform transfer option at 36th and Atlantic for 6th Ave. |
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| (1386306) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Feb 20 22:51:47 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 20 21:21:27 2016. Gonna try this one more time:In an earlier message - someone suggested that the QB train route was named that way because the "Q" stood for Queens and that the "B" stood for Brooklyn, which reflected the reasons behind the making of the QB train. I dis-agreed with such a statement, and still disagree. I am not trying to "re-name" any of our transit route names or lines. In other messages, Joe V and others tried to explain that QB stood for Brighton line via the Manhattan Bridge (QB), in constrast to Brighton line via the Montague Street tunnel (QT). I have also said that in the subways the routes are not named after the boroughs, whether or not a particular train travels from one borough to the next, or travels only within one borough. Unlike the bus system with B-19, M-19, and Bx-19 for the number 19 bus of the Bronx, Manhattan or Brooklyn - subway routes simply do not have route names that indicate what borough these routes travel in or to/from. (The above statement is not about the route side panels that the trains display - which can show neighborhood names or borough information as a part of the destination of the train route.) Yes, certain letter designations may have been created for certain lines, and applied to the train lines served on those lines - but in a pattern having nothing in common with the bus numbering pattern. The equation of QB means "Queens & Brooklyn" is a false statement! I do not see what the problem is. Mike |
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| (1386308) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Feb 20 22:54:46 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 20 21:23:04 2016. And 381 is still alive and well. |
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| (1386309) | |
Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by chris3117 on Sat Feb 20 23:14:02 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Feb 20 22:54:46 2016. Has anybody heard this before: This is what they says according from straphanger website for the future extension SAS if will happen the Phase 2 to 125th Street Harlem; This is very smooth efficient service.Actually, the plan belongs to Broadway Lion from Subchat. Nevertheless, it’s a plan with few cons. This plan will only work if the first two phases (though only Phase I can work) of the SAS are opened. Rush Hour Service (N) 125th Street to Coney Island via Broadway Exp. and Sea Beach (same route, but after 57th the route goes uptown) Runs every 6 minutes, or 10TPH (currently runs every 7 minutes, 8 in the PM) (Q) 125th Street to Coney Island via Broadway Exp. and Brighton Lcl. (this is the proposed route of the Q currently) Runs every 5 minutes, or 12TPH (currently runs every 6 minutes) (R) Forest Hills to Bay Ridge via current route Runs every 6 minutes, or 10TPH (current headway) (W) Ditmars Blvd. to Whitehall St. Alternate trains continue to 9th Ave., Brooklyn Runs every 5 minutes, or 12TPH Explanation (scroll to bottom if too confusing or too lazy to read) First, you may be thinking that I’m changing quite a few routes. Really, I’m not. This is really all I’m changing: The N goes to 125th instead of Astoria, and some W trains continue to 9th Ave. He wants to change the N’s terminal and leave Astoria with the W? The answer is yes. W service will be added so that Astoria riders get the same level of service as they do now with both the N and the W. Let me say it like this: The goal of this plan is to have as few merges on the Broadway line as possible for maximized service. Let me show you why this plan works in terms of track capacity. If you notice, I’m not decreasing service on any line either or removing service (Astoria line riders lose the N but get double the W). Max track capacity is 30TPH. For the sake of incorporating outside forces, max capacity is 24TPH. Now, the W will run 12TPH along Astoria, which will merge with 10TPH in the 60th St. tunnel. That’s 22 TPH all along the Broadway local until Whitehall Street, with no other merges. 22 < 24. Whitehall st. can turn about 6TPH (current W train TPH), so the other 6 W trains continue to 9th Ave. in Brooklyn on the West End. 6TPH can hardly interfere with other operations in Brooklyn. Montague tunnel traffic will be 12 TPH. 12 < 24. Now for the Broadway Express. Both the N and Q start at 125. N has 10 TPH, Q has 12TPH. 22 < 24. 22TPH all along the Broadway Express in Manhattan and into Brooklyn. At this point I should mention that if you don't know already, SAS is being planned with CBTC. Let's boost the SAS segment capacity to 34TPH because now we can. Optimal CBTC track capacity is 40TPH. However, service remains 22TPH. Why This Plan Works "Riders will be too confused if their W goes to Brooklyn or not. Riders in Brookyln will wait too long for a W." Mind you, this is EXACTLY what the MTA is planning for extending the Q in Queens to replace the W. Q trains run to Astoria every 12 minutes, when normal headway terminating at 57th is 6 mins. Also, riders can just take the R along 4th Ave. in Brookyln. "Astoria Riders lose their one-seat express in Broadway." One of the great things about this system is that good local service often appeals to riders better than express service every 10 minutes. "I'm confused. This plan is too confusing." The only things changing are that the N changes terminals to 125th St. and some W trains go to 9th Ave. The only three merges in the VICINITY are DeKalb Ave, 60th St., and Second Ave. with the T and the N/Q. None of them are problems and are under the max track capacity. "What about CBTC?" Since the SAS will be all CBTC, and there are no merges in Manhattan on the Bway Exp., CBTC can be equipped on the Bway Exp. until Brooklyn. IF YOU'RE CONFUSED Max track capacity = 24TPH Broadway Local track capacity under this plan: 22TPH Express track capacity: 22 TPH MINIMUM MERGES What does everyone think? BTW, sorry for the long post. EDIT- BTW, during all other times the W runs to Whitehall St. only since the decreased TPH during all other times means that all trains can be turned at Whitehall. |
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 20 23:33:11 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by chris3117 on Sat Feb 20 23:14:02 2016. If Broadway Lion said this on SubChat we've already seen it. |
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Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 20 23:42:16 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 19 19:19:58 2016. And that's only to restore the W. Probably will need 5 more for 2nd av when they open... |
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Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Sun Feb 21 00:26:40 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 20 16:53:19 2016. Maybe the approximately more than twice as many passengers riding the Brighton than the Sea Beach? |
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Re: Its Offical: W train returning |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Feb 21 01:57:37 2016, in response to Re: Its Offical: W train returning, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 20 20:38:30 2016. own3d. what an idiot. |
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 21 02:12:06 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by chris3117 on Sat Feb 20 23:14:02 2016. There's nothing wrong with your proposal except the cost.Right now there are 8 tph on the local between Canal and 36th Brooklyn, and the trains are far from packed. Under your proposal, there will be 14 to 20 tph on that stretch. And despite all those extra trains, it's tight for Astoria. Right now it gets 13 tph in the peak morning rush. You're reducing that to 12. |
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 08:03:01 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Feb 20 18:49:06 2016. It was the QT diverted up Nassau Street, merged with the 15. |
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 08:05:59 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by chris3117 on Sat Feb 20 23:14:02 2016. 22 Trains per hour on SAS is far too excessive. |
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 21 09:18:09 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 08:03:01 2016. When that was done it was called QJ.But when the changes went into effect the TA was not prepared with new signage on the cars. |
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 09:21:33 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 21 09:18:09 2016. The R27/30 got the new routes rather quickly. A few R16's did as well.I don't think the R32 or R38 could ever display a QJ, or it was rare. Then they stuck cardstock "95th Street" signs on the south sign of the R16's for RJ and RR service. I never understood that. They were perfectly capable of displaying "Astoria" on the north sign. |
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 09:24:14 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 09:21:33 2016. 
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 09:27:52 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 09:21:33 2016. They also displayed the regular Q or nothing  or J  Here is the rare QJ  |
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 09:28:37 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 09:27:52 2016. I don't know why the last one didn't work
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 09:32:41 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 09:28:37 2016. there is a different font for the QJ here
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 09:36:38 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 21 09:32:41 2016. They look better now at 50 years of age than they did then at 5 years.The R32 never has much of a presence on the QJ or the Eastern Division. Usually a stray about once a week got there, as did an R16. For a brief time in the 1980's they did, basically because the R16 fell apart faster than expected. The nothing from their GOH in 1989 until 2013. |
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by chud1 on Sun Feb 21 09:42:47 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 09:36:38 2016. i am drooling for da R-32's.cnhud1. :)..... |
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Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 21 09:47:16 2016, in response to Re: PRESS RELEASE Re: It's Offal? W train returning, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 21 09:36:38 2016. The TT train ran 32s and they apways went up there.ROAR |
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