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| Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. (1160267) | |
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| (1160695) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 7 10:05:48 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by randyo on Tue Jun 5 21:01:59 2012. I've seen pictures of those mixed consists. Very funny looking... |
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| (1160696) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 7 10:09:52 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by randyo on Mon Jun 4 18:16:55 2012. I agree. I don't know the answer, but I do agree with you... |
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| (1160698) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 7 10:11:26 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by randyo on Wed Jun 6 04:26:51 2012. Exactly. |
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| (1160700) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 7 10:22:16 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by J trainloco on Tue Jun 5 18:11:51 2012. Well, yes, and no. For example, to avoid headaches, if you run any kind of IT operation, you really do have to decide Mac vs PC vs. something else....which tends to support what you're saying.But in support of Randyo, consider that most succededing generations of PC (I have nearly zero experience with Macs) are compatible with ast genrations, up to a point. For example, basic versions of Office will work with Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Windows 7. Similarly, using Office 2010, you can "save as" in 2003-2007 formats. Thus, you can use a group of PCs of varying ages together. There does of course, come a point where that doesn't work- a PC with Windows 95 is probably useless now. But just as the R1-9s worked together, the R10-42s worked together, it seems to me that R143-179s should be compatible. They're not, but they should be. PC to Mac is sort of like NYCT to WMATA cars...143 to 179 should not be. |
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| (1160731) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by Pink Jazz on Thu Jun 7 16:02:31 2012, in response to Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by Gold_12TH on Mon Jun 4 17:31:31 2012. So, considering that Bombardier has finally posted the order on their website, I'm guessing the protest by Alstom/Kawasaki has been dismissed, is that correct? |
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| (1160745) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 7 17:44:57 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 6 16:42:39 2012. That is nonetheless the standard that NYCT uses and those who stick their feet into the isle do so at their own risk. |
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| (1160747) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 7 17:48:51 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 6 16:47:01 2012. The IRT was the only division where cars were assigned to barns by electrical equipment type rather than car type. On the IND and BMT cars were usually assigned by car type with WH and GE cars being mixed. In yards and on shop transfers all SMEE cars could be mixed and often were. |
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| (1160748) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 7 17:53:54 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by BLE-NIMX on Wed Jun 6 16:45:58 2012. Westcode was a brake package rather than motor control equipment and the first cars to receive it as OEM were the R-46s with the original P wire brake package. The later Westcode retrofit version of RT-2 (SMEE) was done on the R-44s just prior to GOH although one train of R-42s did receive it as a trial. |
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| (1160749) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by J trainloco on Thu Jun 7 17:57:42 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 7 10:22:16 2012. But in support of Randyo,consider that most succededing generations of PC (I have nearly zero experience with Macs) are compatible with ast genrations,up to a point. For example,basic versions of Office will work with Windows XP,Windows Vista,and Windows 7. Similarly,using Office 2010,you can "save as" in 2003-2007 formats. Thus,you can use a group of PCs of varying ages together. There does of course,come a point where that doesn't work- a PC with Windows 95 is probably useless now.But in your example, the same manufacturer makes Windows. Not a different one. PC to Mac is sort of like NYCT to WMATA cars...143 to 179 should not be. No, because PC and Mac are Manufacturers, while NYCT and WMATA are customers. Suppose the Spacely company makes Sprockets. They are the only maker. Now you decide you want to crack into the Sprocket making market. But the government says your sprockets must match Spacely's. You are now at a competitive disadvantage. You will have to spend extra money to make sure that your sprockets work with Spacely's, AND, you will not have the experience that spacely does with his design. Go back to the example of R142 vs 142A. As mentioned In another post, they use different air suspension systems. Who is responsible for matching who? |
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| (1160751) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 7 18:02:31 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Jun 6 19:26:52 2012. It's not so much a matter of incompatibility as it was poor operating quality when the 2 equipments were mixed. BMT Multis were split between WH and GE and while occasional mixed trains of GE and WH units were operated, mixed trains bucked like Georgia mules. On NYCT I never noticed any operating differences between all cars of one electrical equipment and mixed trains. When NYCT cars were GOHed, not only did the cars have different electrical equipments but brake equipments were split between WABCO and NYAB and cars with both types of brake equipments were operated in the same trains although the NYCT didn't seem to want to operate mixed trains of R-62s and 62As and R-68s and 68As which had the same mix of brakes and on the R-62s electrical equipment although they could me mixed for shop moves. |
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| (1160752) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 7 18:05:27 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by J trainloco on Thu Jun 7 17:57:42 2012. I remember being told that there is, or at least was, a federal mandate that the internal parts of air brake components be fully interchangeable. |
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| (1160753) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 7 18:07:35 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 6 16:41:23 2012. Could be. When I was a new M/M, I would often get a solid train of R-16s for my put in and first trip and it ran like s**t. |
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| (1160768) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 7 19:28:36 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by Dan on Tue Jun 5 10:03:23 2012. We all know the 75ft car placed limitations on the B Division..I see no reason to order anymore of them ever again,unless it was for the Atlantic branch takeover...a hybrid car.Other than that,the 60FT cars will do..only one issue I have..is the linked sets.. A good idea..but kills flexing the equipment via the TA unwillingness to break up sets to suit service requirements for different lines. As it stands..the Eastern Division has to have its own rolling stock..for obvious reasons..while the C is being FORCED to have 2 4 cars sets operate as 8 car trains.. I wonder why the TA didnt give 65ft cars a try? |
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| (1160769) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by merrick1 on Thu Jun 7 19:34:07 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by randyo on Thu Jun 7 18:05:27 2012. Don't those requirements apply only to freight cars operated which are interchanged with other railroads? Transit Authority equipment never leaves the property. |
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| (1160773) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 7 19:41:42 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 7 19:28:36 2012. Ever heard of the R110B ? |
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| (1160794) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 7 21:51:27 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 7 19:41:42 2012. oh..you mean that sixty "SEVEN" FOOT test train that was more trouble to operate than standing still? |
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| (1160795) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by CJ on Thu Jun 7 22:14:14 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by randyo on Thu Jun 7 18:07:35 2012. The R16s pretty much taught everyone a lesson that we can all hope isn't repeated again in the future. The lesson is never slack on the maintenance of any new subway cars regardless of what division they are first assigned to. |
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| (1160824) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 8 07:16:53 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 7 19:28:36 2012. I agree that the TA should not order any more 75-ft. cars. They need the most operational flexibility possible, so I also agree with you about the linked sets. They should not have gone beyoned the dual-units. if the R160s had been ordered as dual units, there would be no need for any special fleets out "East" |
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| (1160828) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by merrick1 on Fri Jun 8 07:46:14 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 7 21:51:27 2012. How would cars that are two feet shorter work any better? |
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| (1160832) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Fri Jun 8 08:50:26 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 8 07:16:53 2012. if the R160s had been ordered as dual units, there would be no need for any special fleets out "East"In theory, could the 4-car R160 sets be broken up and re-mated into 5-car sets, with the 'extra' A units mated into A-A sets similar to R46's 6208-6258? |
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| (1160836) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Jun 8 09:12:27 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 8 07:16:53 2012. I'd rather have more room for passengers than having that space wasted for unused mid-train cabs. |
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| (1160854) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by mshull on Fri Jun 8 11:11:29 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by RailBus63 on Fri Jun 8 08:50:26 2012. Then the cabs would be in the wrong positions for the conductors. 10 car trains need at least one full-width cab between the fifth and sixth car.The better way to remake four car units into five car units would be to break up enough four car sets to make all 5-car sets. Some sets would be A-B-B-B-A, some would be A-A-B-B-A. |
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| (1160875) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jun 8 14:12:40 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by mshull on Fri Jun 8 11:11:29 2012. With the return to 60 ft cars and the likelihood that OPTO will not be operated on most NYCT lines for the foreseeable future, the MTA should return to R-32/42 type corner cabs instead of full cabs with 2 car married pairs. In the event that OPTO eventually gets implemented on a large scale, closed circuit TV systems similar to the one in use on SEPTA's M/F of HBLR can be installed so that the T/O can operate doors on both sides without leaving the seat. |
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| (1160876) | |
Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R. |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jun 8 14:15:29 2012, in response to Re: Bombardier to Supply 300 New (R-179) Subway Cars for NYC Transit --- P.R., posted by merrick1 on Thu Jun 7 19:34:07 2012. That wasn't the way it was explained to me. One thing I do remember is that NYCRR use NYAB brake equipment almost exclusively and I know from personal observation that WABCO and NYAB brake valves were not only identical, but even had the same part numbers. |
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