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| Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' (1133201) | |
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| (1133456) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by PATHman on Fri Jan 20 12:53:39 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by J trainloco on Fri Jan 20 12:44:32 2012. I think the average sane person would believe that this: is more appealing than this: 
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| (1133469) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 13:44:53 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by PATHman on Fri Jan 20 02:06:23 2012. The problem is that the original colored seats of the R-46s are being replaced with blue "periwinkle" seats which clash with the rest of the interiors of the cars. I actually felt that the orange and yellow seats were to garish and that blue is more relaxing. |
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| (1133471) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 13:48:07 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by SUBWAYMAN on Fri Jan 20 02:03:14 2012. The R-38s were actually supposed to be an add on to the R-32s but due to the requirement for competitive bidding, the R-38s went to St Louis instead of Budd. Imagine the quality of the cars if the R-40s and 42s had also gone to Budd. |
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| (1133477) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 13:53:47 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by PATHman on Fri Jan 20 12:53:39 2012. However, as I pointed out in several posts, the original interiors of the R-32s through 42s were a 2 tone blue not identical to but very similar to the NTTs. |
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| (1133490) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 14:04:11 2012, in response to "Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall", posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 19 16:48:36 2012. It's unfortunate that the reporter doesn't seem to like the corrugated sides of the R-32s since most stainless steel cars on all railroads up until the R-44s had some sort of fluting on the sides at least up to the bottom of the window line. Starting with the R-44s that fluting was gradually cut down to the point where the NTTs look rather sterile or perhaps like a greasy spoon diner. Since there is little if any color on the NTTs, I think some sort of fluting on the sides would add character to their appearance. The latest CTA equipment has fluting on the lower portion of the car bodies. For those of you who remember it, The R-11 which has fluting on the lower portion of the cars was IMHO one of the nicest designs for a rapid transit car that I have seen anywhere. |
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| (1133491) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 14:06:37 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Jan 20 03:28:30 2012. The door and window arrangement looks like what a stainless steel R-26/28 or 29/33 might have looked like. I had heard that when the R-32s were delivered a NYCTA official was heard to have commented that he wished the R-27/30s had been stainless steel. |
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| (1133492) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by PATHman on Fri Jan 20 14:08:44 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 13:44:53 2012. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I feel that bright colors are more cheery than dull colors like blue and gray. |
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| (1133493) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Bill West on Fri Jan 20 14:10:15 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Jan 20 07:28:17 2012. Oops, I should have said 2800 miles each leg, 5600 miles round trip every 7-8 days.Bill |
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| (1133494) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 14:14:35 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by PATHman on Fri Jan 20 14:08:44 2012. I guess it depends on what you want. If you are on the way TO work you might want bright colors to perk you up. If you are on the ay home FROM work, you might prefer something relaxing. The original interiors of the R-32s and NTTs did not contain a dull grey however as cars up to the R-30s did. They had 2 shades of blue to make the interiors more cheerful so a Blue interior like that on the NTTs serves to both cheer up and relax at the same time. |
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| (1133499) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by PATHman on Fri Jan 20 14:24:10 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 14:14:35 2012. No, a PA-5 interior is relaxing: A NTT interior is just boring: 
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| (1133501) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Bill West on Fri Jan 20 14:25:50 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Jan 20 11:24:04 2012. I guess we’d have to rate the still running 1929 wooden Soller trains on Mallorca as youngsters.Bill |
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| (1133507) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 20 14:46:43 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by PATHman on Fri Jan 20 14:24:10 2012. I will gladly take the PA5 over the R143/160 any day. I wish they'd scale the PA5 up and use it, instead of 210 MORE R142/143 lookalikes. |
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| (1133508) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by PATHman on Fri Jan 20 14:47:44 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 20 14:46:43 2012. +1 |
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| (1133509) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 14:47:48 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by PATHman on Fri Jan 20 14:24:10 2012. I see what you mean. A brighter blue seat would be a bit more cheerful. |
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| (1133511) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Jan 20 14:52:06 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 20 14:46:43 2012. I wish they'd scale the PA5 up and use it, instead of 210 MORE R142/143 lookalikes.Somehow, we got stuck with ugly "narrow profile" stock in New York. CTA, MBTA, BVG (Berlin), RATP (Paris), and TFM (Madrid) ended up decent looking stock. Hell, even London's 2009 stock isn't half-bad in terms of exterior aesthetics... OTOH, IMHO, the R-143/160 family is probably one of the better looking trains... |
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| (1133521) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Jan 20 15:19:05 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 20 14:46:43 2012. I just don't like the bucket seats. |
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| (1133522) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 15:21:28 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Jan 20 14:52:06 2012. The BMT/IND cars have a slight curved side which enhances the appearance of a railcar. Despite, the close clearances, IRT NTTs could have had a slight curve by curving the car body slightly INWARD above the belt line of the car. The original IRT Composites were built that way so it definitely would work and would have made for a better looking car. |
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| (1133525) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 15:23:23 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Jan 20 15:19:05 2012. I don't care for bucket seats either and I have no idea why the R-44s through 68s couldn't have had bench style seating even on the cross seats. |
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| (1133553) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by 5119 on Fri Jan 20 16:15:36 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by randyo on Thu Jan 19 22:59:27 2012. Do you realize that by August of this year, the R 32's will be 48 years old. Which means they've just about outlasted every class of the IRT Lo-V's that ran in service. They even outlasted the 1910-1911 Hedley Hi-V's which ran until 1958. What an amazing record for a post war car. Testament to the hight standards employed by the Budd company. |
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| (1133555) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by PATHman on Fri Jan 20 16:16:43 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by 5119 on Fri Jan 20 16:15:36 2012. I'm sure C riders are loving the ride on 48 year old cars... |
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| (1133576) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Fisk ave Jim on Fri Jan 20 17:03:36 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 14:06:37 2012. Had the WF R33/36's were stainless, some of them might still be in service. One insider told me that one of the reasons that they were reefed was due to extensive bodyrot. |
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| (1133577) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 20 17:06:07 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 15:23:23 2012. I prefer the bucket seats to the incomfortably placed pole assuring each bench on an R143/160 will make 6 people very uncomfortable. |
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| (1133578) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Jan 20 17:10:10 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 20 17:06:07 2012. I don't think that has anything to do with the bench seats and more to do with extra standee comfort though, the R32 and R42 don't have those poles. |
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| (1133584) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by CathedralPky on Fri Jan 20 17:26:36 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Fisk ave Jim on Fri Jan 20 17:03:36 2012. I think most people would be happy with R32s if they did not screech so loudly. The upkeep on most R32 trainsets varies greatly, screeches range from a second or two right before coming to a complete stop, from being audible and painful from the second the engineer hits the brakes during the station approach.Worse yet, some have a tendency to lurch repeatedly while stopping and starting, which throws passengers around. I just experienced this around 145th St on a C train this afternoon, a lady getting off almost faceplanted due to this. I have no quarrel with the R32 interiors per se. |
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| (1133592) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Fisk ave Jim on Fri Jan 20 17:56:14 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by CathedralPky on Fri Jan 20 17:26:36 2012. "Worse yet, some have a tendency to lurch repeatedly while stopping and starting"You wanna get lurched around?? Try riding the #7 with those R-62a's that rule the roost over there. I don't know if its the design of the brakes on those things or the indiffernce/skill of the T/Os to try to provide a smoother ride. Those brakes seem to grab & release with no in between that makes for an uncomfortable ride. Really noticable between Lowery & Rawson Sts Manhattan bound on the local when it flys down the hill into Rawson & the uncomfortable braking is most evident. Those IRT longitudinal seats don't help either |
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| (1133594) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 20 18:00:44 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 20 11:59:44 2012. < They weren't deemed obsolete,>Yeh, they were, I was around then. MTA brass dissed anything pre-M-1, saying that since an MP75 could MU with an 1908 MP54, they are by definition technologically obsolete, and have performance levels to match (which is crap). |
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| (1133595) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 20 18:01:59 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Jan 20 12:19:34 2012. HEP, LIRR-style, was 650v DC, not 480v AC. |
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| (1133596) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 20 18:03:36 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 20 12:08:27 2012. Oh yes. Sorry, they look like shit. |
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| (1133597) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 20 18:05:47 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 13:48:07 2012. Had they gone to Budd, would Mayor Linsday have still demanded sloped ends ? |
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Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 18:08:43 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 20 18:05:47 2012. I wasn't aware that the sloped ends were the mayor's idea. |
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| (1133601) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 20 18:08:44 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by 5119 on Fri Jan 20 16:15:36 2012. What does that say about the builder of the BRT 1200 & 1400 Gate cars, which went on to be 65 years old as Q cars ?I suppose the C types could have lasted that long too. The ugliest cars in the world, but reliable while they had them. |
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| (1133602) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 20 18:10:05 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by PATHman on Fri Jan 20 11:57:38 2012. I think fluted stainless is just fine. Tan painted interiors as opposed to stainless R68, no contest. |
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| (1133603) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 20 18:11:36 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by PATHman on Fri Jan 20 12:53:39 2012. We can paint the seats orange if you'd like. Nothing we can do about bench seats. I don't see any other difference. |
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| (1133606) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 20 18:29:41 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 14:04:11 2012. Send the ditz up to Toronto, put her on the Canadian to Vancouver. After 4 days of Budd fluting, she'll be ready to be institutionalized. |
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| (1133633) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Jan 20 20:14:49 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 14:14:35 2012. "If you are on the way TO work you might want bright colors to perk you up. If you are on the ay home FROM work, you might prefer something relaxing."What should be done, then, is to use seats with reversible colored insert panels. In the morning they could be a bright blue or green, and around lunch time cleaning crews would reverse the panels to a more subdued color. After midnight, towards morning, the crews would reverse the panels again. This would also give vandals something less destructive to do to annoy people instead of etching scratchitti or spraying paint. "Oh, dear, some hooligan reversed that seat out of order! How simply dreadful!" There could be a $100 fine for unauthorized reversal of seat panels, which would help improve the MTA's financial position as well. |
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| (1133645) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Fri Jan 20 21:16:48 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 20 18:11:36 2012. I think that cleaning the floor (of the R32) might make matters a little better. Oh yes, whilst we're at it - put the seats back to their original aqua colour and do away with the beige and replace it with a cool grey 10%. And use cool white light inside (not the soft white).wayne |
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| (1133660) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Jan 20 23:23:47 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Bill West on Fri Jan 20 14:25:50 2012. I've been on those too, around the same time as the Athens ones. They were so much "younger" then :)The oldest rebuilt EMUs I rode would be the two-motor Spragues on line 2 in Paris. Some of them were rebuilds of the original 1900 wooden stock and survived until 1976. |
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| (1133661) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by PATHman on Fri Jan 20 23:27:42 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Jan 20 20:14:49 2012. no |
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Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat Jan 21 00:06:51 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 14:06:37 2012. Those are actually 60 footers(18m). That was the standard for Tokyo subway at the time. 18m, three sets of doors. These days, some cars on that line have five sets of doors. Anyway, to list some of the changes the 7000 series have had in their lives: A/C added Roll signs changed to LED Automated announcements Outside speakers Wheelchair space New interior Additional lighting OPTO capability Separate two-handed MC/brakes to single bar control (in fact the whole console was changed) Single arm Pantograph GTO or IGBT controlled VVVF inverters Squirrel-cage rotor three-phase AC motors HSC-R brakes changed to HRA Budd's Pioneer III trucks changed to Tokyu's TS-807 And pretty much everything except the shell. Maybe we could do some of those to the R32. :) |
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| (1133669) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat Jan 21 00:09:21 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Bill West on Fri Jan 20 14:25:50 2012. Oh and those trains were fun to ride. When they're crowded, you stand and hold on to a bar, SF cable car style. |
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| (1133701) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Sat Jan 21 07:35:05 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by PATHman on Fri Jan 20 23:27:42 2012. No what? |
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| (1133722) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jan 21 09:50:42 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by PATHman on Fri Jan 20 14:24:10 2012. PA 5 Seats SUCK!The "Boring" seats have no lumps, a definte PLUS++++++ |
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| (1133828) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jan 21 14:50:23 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 20 17:06:07 2012. I prefer the bucket seats to the incomfortably placed pole assuring each bench on an R143/160 will make 6 people very uncomfortable.Nah, those are much better than the R62 buckets... I have seen 4 (non-child) people fit on one side of the pole with only mild discomfort (summer time helped), so there is definitely room. Meanwhile on the 62/as, if there are two adjacent free seats flanked by fat people, that middle space is useless. |
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Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jan 21 15:02:14 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jan 21 14:50:23 2012. The benches are easier to sleep on."E" train Pullman, Summer and Winter Special! Round trip all night sleeper! |
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Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 21 15:46:55 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Wado MP73 on Sat Jan 21 00:06:51 2012. I wasn't referring so much to the length as I was to the IRT like door and window arrangement. |
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| (1133859) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 21 15:48:24 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Fri Jan 20 21:16:48 2012. Returning the entire R-32 interior to its original colors wouldn't be bad. |
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| (1133881) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Jan 21 16:49:05 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by andy on Thu Jan 19 20:46:24 2012. Don't forget the ACMUs lasted until the M7As arrived. By then they were over 45 years old. |
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| (1133937) | |
Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jan 21 20:58:43 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jan 21 15:02:14 2012. Yup, and with that bar, you don't even need to worry about accidentally rolling onto the floor.No matter what they do to the E (run express, run local, run via 6th, run to 2nd av) it seems to always serve its primary function splendidly as an all underground 24/7 no relaying line. |
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Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jan 21 21:14:15 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by Wado MP73 on Sat Jan 21 00:06:51 2012. Wow, now that is a GOH.I would be elated if the R32s could go another decade with that sort of GOH (well, minus the OPTO). Imagine a 3 line LED digital sign... they could just leave the text up rather than scrolling everything: To Euclid Av via Fulton Local (C) via 8th av Local |
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Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'' |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Jan 21 22:46:22 2012, in response to Re: ''Oldest subway cars not being replaced afterall'', posted by randyo on Fri Jan 20 18:08:43 2012. They werent...he wanted a "EYE CANDY" car to show the world NYC could match other newer systems being built like San Fran..Washington and atlanta.. |
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