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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 6 20:54:08 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 6 19:43:57 2012. What about the existence of it on the Euclid model board and the presence of certain associated signals in the area that is accessible? |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 6 20:58:52 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 20:51:29 2012. It could be that the IND styled tiles near Creedmore were for the LIRR rather than the IND since the now closed Woodhaven Blvd station on the LIRR is also IND style. At the time WH was built the city was building everything IND style like the original tiles at 8/14, Fulton and Broad. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 6 21:02:55 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 19:28:41 2012. It may have been both. There is at least one documented instance of an IND facility not being built by the B of T but by another city department and that is 174 St Yd in Wash Hts. It was built by the Board of Ed together with PS 173 in order to avoid having the school and schoolyard underpinned by subway construction. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 6 21:04:59 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 20:53:42 2012. I wasn't sure of the exact date but what I was trying to point out was that the war's impact on IND subway construction was much later than when the line ended at Rocky Av in 1936. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Fri Jan 6 21:19:30 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 20:13:29 2012. Yes, I meant why would he chose the IRT plans over the IND plans. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 21:26:17 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 20:51:29 2012. Based on observation made at the IND subway tunnel bulkhead wall under Pitkin Avenue in the vicinity of the Sunrise Highway emergency exit, the tunnel walls end in poured concrete bulkhead walls with vertical I beams much like how the the J line Archer Subway tunnel ends just east of the terminal's station.I find it very difficult to believe that a four track subway station was built, and connected with only with a two track yard lead (Tracks A7 & A8) from Pitkin yard and not the main line. Were there tracks laid on to the A7 & A8 trackways (Now K5 & K6) for the purpose of relaying train on a yard move, but into a station, even a partially built station, I some how can not accept that theory based on a recent observation. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 21:33:28 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by N6 Limited on Fri Jan 6 21:19:30 2012. One would have to examine the 1968 plan for action that detailed rapid system transit expansion to understand where connections were to have been made.With the exception of limited IRT (Div A) expansion, the majority of NYC Subway builds will be IND. All subway lines that were opened after the creation of the Transit Authority in 1953 are identified as IND (now Subdivision B2) lines according to NYCT. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 6 21:35:14 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 21:26:17 2012. Actually, the reports I've heard indicate that the station was also connected to the mainline, it's just that the mainline tracks didn't go any closer to the station area than they do now. Some of my sources have indicated that prior to the completion of the Grant Av station and the ramp to the Fulton St el, there was a "temporary" wooden bulkhead at the end of track S/O Euclid which was replace by the current concrete wall circa 1956. I also wonder why that wall was constructed so that the S/B lcl tk is a bit shorter than the other 3 tracks. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jan 6 21:38:16 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 21:26:17 2012. Ax station at that location would be ideal....a simple two track island platform stub terminal for C trains could potentially serve feeder routes and the nab at Spring Creek/City Line/queens.doesn't make much sense to has a very convenient subway right there below your feet,and cant use it with out walking a half mile. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 6 21:39:18 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 21:26:17 2012. A7 and A8 tracks are actually 2 different tracks from K5 and K6. I was in A7 and A8 in 1962 and there was still rail and signals in there although the switches connecting them to K5 and K6 had recently been removed. The tunnels for A7 and A8 also ended in mounds of dirt from floor to ceiling but when I returned there in 1983, the ends of the tunnels had been sealed in cinderblock walls. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 6 21:43:06 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 21:33:28 2012. The principal reason I can see for favoring the IRT Utica subway over the IND one is that it would connect directly to an already existing IRT mainline that goes into Manhattan whereas the IND version would have required the construction of the entire Utica/Stuyvesant /So 4 St subway with a new East River tunnel to the stub tracks at 2 Ave which would have been much more expensive. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 21:59:47 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by randyo on Fri Jan 6 21:39:18 2012. Tracks A7 & A8 both end at a point where they would have turned due east (SOUTH) towards the Pitkin Avenue extension. K5 & K6 were latter added from Grant Avenue and reused part of the A7/8 tunnel trackways to/from the Pitkin yard portal. Both A & K track designations are shown on a NYCT track system diagram as a single trackway path between Pitkin yard & Grant Avenue.The concrete (Cinder) block walls you mention are at the crux of what many believe to be a sealed up subway tunnel that leads to the proposed IND 76th Street station. The main IND trackway under Pitkin Avenue end at concrete bulkhead walls, as mentioned, and not at a masonry (Cinder) block wall as many are lead to believe. Why A7 & A8 were sealed up, is any one's guess, but not to a station.. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 22:01:57 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 21:59:47 2012. and where is that point? |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 22:04:14 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by randyo on Fri Jan 6 21:43:06 2012. Based on an economic model I agree. It would be less expensive to use an existing trunk line as opposed to building a major system to service a branch line. Plus, the Eastern Parkway lines capacity would not be overtaxed with extending one of the existing Div A lines onto a Utica Avenue Subway line.However locating suitable space for a car storage facility would have been a difficult task even in the early 1970's. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 22:07:36 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 22:01:57 2012. At about survey marker 368 on K5 track. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 22:14:07 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by randyo on Fri Jan 6 20:58:52 2012. not a chance.the lirr`s main line is apx.1/2 a mile south.the lirr`s creedmore branch was a single track freight line into the hospital.the reason woodhaven blvd[lirr]is ind.style is because the lirr built it to subway specs.in anticapation of the city taking over the rockaway branch into jamaica station.I,m quoting long island press stories from 1937 about how the lirr wanted to abandon service west of jamaica&have the city take it over.imagine,R9`s into penn.station.also the rockaway line when elevated in rockaway in 1939/42 it was built to ind.specs. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 22:23:10 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 21:59:47 2012. in 1968 I was a transit cop working the A line.I asked an old time m/m who I was riding with if he knew about 76st.he was a c/r on the pump train & had to go BEYOUND the portal to pump out the track leading to 76st.he said they went a distance beyound what is now the cinder block wall before they hit water.he did not go into,or see the station.as told to me A7 bumper blocked just before the station.unknown where A8 b/b`d. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 22:23:59 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 22:23:10 2012. this move happened in the early 1950`s |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 22:40:39 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 22:23:10 2012. The A8 BB should have been near the A7 BB, since the proposed yard leads would have split to descend onto the main line at a point just north (Geo west) of the planned 76th Street station.I would like to know year that the old timer rode the pump car into that portion of the tunnel. As stated earlier, both A7 & A8 tunnel trackways were observed to end in a large earth pile at a point, and switches had been removed at a point where K5 & K6 met the original B/B yard leads. I would be surprised if masonry blocks are used to wall off both A7 & A8 tunnels are cinder block, since cinder block is rather porous and would be poor at holding back water that might enter the closed off tunnel. Do you have any survey marker references with regards to actual locations? |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Fri Jan 6 22:49:09 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 22:04:14 2012. I agree, The IND plan would be better, but the IRT plan would be more economic. Do you think B46 ridership would decrease if that were to happen? |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 23:02:20 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by N6 Limited on Fri Jan 6 22:49:09 2012. I believe that NYCT would use creative means to cut expenses on a surface route that serves the same route of a subway line.Travel from Avenue U to Rutland Road takes an average of 30 minutes, depending on traffic, traffic lights (Utica is 2 way), and unloading/loading. A R/T line could make the same journey in at least half the time. Saving time would deload the surface route lines, except for possible local bus hops on the avenue. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 6 23:13:10 2012, in response to Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by kawasakir142 on Thu Jan 5 16:46:07 2012. 
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 23:51:31 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 22:40:39 2012. it was the early `50`s he went in.survey marks,me.i,ve been down at both locations then I can remember.A7&A8 go under the cinder block wall at grant ave& north conduit. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 23:56:05 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 22:40:39 2012. pictures were posted here several times of the cinder block wall,can anyone bring them up? |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by monorail on Sat Jan 7 02:23:21 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 17:40:26 2012. '.I,m probably one of the few rail buffs in the world[not kidding]that has seen them.'i've seen it too.... |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by monorail on Sat Jan 7 02:24:31 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by Bob Andersen on Fri Jan 6 18:40:55 2012. aux. lighting really isn't needed..... l |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 7 09:27:04 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by monorail on Sat Jan 7 02:23:21 2012. where? |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 7 10:52:18 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by Bob Andersen on Fri Jan 6 18:40:55 2012. consider it done.wait patiently for posting. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 7 10:53:54 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 23:51:31 2012. should read more times than I can remember. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 7 11:10:43 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by Handbrake on Fri Jan 6 22:40:39 2012. the cinder block wall was NOT put up to hold back water,it was put up to keep people out.as told to me by the cop that was in it,he entered thru a structure door [since removed]in one of the the walls.have you been at this location? facing the wall onthe left side is a tie UNDER the wall.you can see where the tie plates& spikes were removed.on the right side of the wall I tried digging under it.I got about 2 feet on the other side of the wall when for every shovel of dirt I removed,more came pouring in.I believe that for what ever reason ,the dirt pile was left in place on the r/s of the wall.I couldn`t dig under the l/S as ballast& the tie were in the way. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by VictorM on Sat Jan 7 11:44:08 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by Avid Reader on Fri Jan 6 11:31:32 2012. The Woodhaven Blvd stubs on the Queens Blvd line branch off from each end of the local tracks to allow for wide island platforms between the related local and existing express tracks in case Woodhaven Blvd was converted to an express station. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by VictorM on Sat Jan 7 11:50:14 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by VictorM on Sat Jan 7 11:44:08 2012. I should have said "relocated local tracks" instead of "related". |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 7 15:14:17 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 20:53:42 2012. How much of B'way/East NY was completed by may of 1942? Any trackwork from rockaway Ave? |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by monorail on Sat Jan 7 15:26:03 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 7 09:27:04 2012. bklyn bridge, taken there by a supt. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 7 15:36:57 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 6 17:40:26 2012. Yea, it was built for wooden gate cars which were entering Manhattan via the Willy B. I don't think it was ever intended for steel cars- especially 6 or 8 car Standards. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Jan 7 15:53:36 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 7 15:14:17 2012. Fully completed station..no track..no connection to the BWAY JUNCTION complex yet...no signals. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 7 16:10:48 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by N6 Limited on Fri Jan 6 15:46:22 2012. It's not superior, it's the only feasible way one would be built today. The IND version would connect to tunnels that were never built. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 7 16:14:35 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 6 23:13:10 2012. 
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 7 16:16:15 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 7 16:10:48 2012. i don't think this was ever discussed, but it also could have connected via the upper track level, east of Nostrand, via Decatur to Stuveysant, over Utica! |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 7 16:18:29 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 7 16:16:15 2012. Sort of like the dreaded teacup design! |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 7 16:18:54 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by monorail on Sat Jan 7 15:26:03 2012. Oh,I was talking about the photos. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 7 16:25:49 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 7 15:36:57 2012. The steels weren`t built untill 1914 so its a given.I did post last week that the ERA published an article saying that it was determined a 3 car train of bmt steels or 3 car d-types could could take the bridge safely.this study had to be taken after 1924 when the d-types first appeared. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 7 16:28:11 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 7 16:14:35 2012. looks like karen carpenter in a space suit. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by handbrake on Sat Jan 7 16:28:48 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 7 11:10:43 2012. Observation to the intersection of tracks A7/8 and K5/6, as well as the block wall have not happened as of present.From the descriptions you have provide, is the abandoned A7/8 trackway under the masonry wall of Type One or Type Two construction? As mentioned, the presence of dirt appears to coincide with another s observation made of a large dirt pile as being been present prior a masonry block wall being constructed at that location. Interesting comment though regarding the TA sealing off the trackways to keep people out. If for example only employees and designated contractor personnel, under flagging and or a GO, are allowed to enter the property normally closed to the public, then who did the TA want to keep out from entering that abandoned and trackways? There are restrictions with regards to casual entry upon an active trackway in the subway. An individual authorized to enter upon the tracks must have in their possession a current track safety certification, wear and carry approved personal protective equipment (Safety Battle Rattle), a two portable VHF radio tuned to the sub-division command channel, and must notify the sub-division control center desk prior to entering/leaving upon the trackway. Not that a teenager would concern themselves with the above requirements. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 7 16:32:30 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 7 16:25:49 2012. I really doubt if the Triplexes or Standards, in any car length, would ever have crossed the Brooklyn Bridge, due to the shortsge of steel cars in the mid-1920's. Wooden el cars were used on the Broadway-Brooklyn line until JULY, 1927. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 7 16:41:53 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by handbrake on Sat Jan 7 16:28:48 2012. I FORGOT TO ASK- does that station box cross Fulton at a right angle. it does run from Stuyvesant to Utica, about a block away. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 7 16:42:18 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by handbrake on Sat Jan 7 16:28:48 2012. its ind,it HAS to be type 2&yes it is.my guess is that they wanted to keep out the bums from living in it.this is the reason why the 66th ave ind. ext.towards the lirr`s white pot junction rockaway division.was sealed up.the bums were living in the tunnel and would start fires to keep warm.fdny had to be called to put out the fires as they got out of hand.I can attest first hand about finding homeless living in the tunnels beyound the 2nd ave.I tripped over one sleeping in the trouth between the tracks.son of a bitch damn near gave me a heart attack. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 7 16:43:29 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 7 16:32:30 2012. no argument there,just repeating what I read. |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga |
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Posted by mike cruz on Sat Jan 7 17:40:44 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) & 76th Street Saga, posted by handbrake on Sat Jan 7 16:28:48 2012. I was running around those tunnels at 18 so there's your point proof. LOL |
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Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jan 7 18:09:23 2012, in response to Re: Abandoned Utica Ave Upper Level (Pix Coming Soon), posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 7 16:28:11 2012. TOO SOON! |
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