Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? (21793) | |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by M15 to South Ferry on Tue Mar 29 22:57:08 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:48:53 2005. How do you make words in bold? |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:02:28 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by David of Broadway on Tue Mar 29 22:24:34 2005. As far as you're concerned, the store does not exist (since you have no way of knowing what it sells). So pretend it doesn't exist.What kind of philosophical nonsense is this? The store DOES exist through its print resembling a bowl of spaghetti dropped onto the floor. I can't read it, and the store owner had no intention of allowing me to read it to determine for myself if I even should go in. I have never owned a store. Am I therefore inconsiderate? I can't see how. And how would I be any less considerate if I owned a store that for whatever reason you were unable to use? I have no reason to use an "African Hair Braiding" store of which I've seen many. I have no reason to enter a store which sells homeowners'insurance even though the sign is in English. I don't believe I would like Cambodian cuisine even though there is a place on Fulton Street in Brooklyn that loudly advertises "CAMBODIAN CUISINE" in English. But these places make conscious efforts to do as the Romans do when in Rome. Let them have signs in their native languages to their heart's content, but at the very least subtitle it in English, and let me make my mind up for myself. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:06:57 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by M15 to South Ferry on Tue Mar 29 22:57:08 2005. Substitute "<" and ">" for "[" and "]" below.[b]Hello. I am bold.[/b] I am regular. Hello. I am bold. I am regular. [i]Hello. I am Italic.[/i] [b]I am bold[/b] and I am regular. Hello. I am Italic. I am bold and I am regular. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by Flatbush41 on Tue Mar 29 23:14:41 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:56:13 2005. FGM is done solely to prevent a woman from enjoying sexual intercourse, and is therefore TRULY unnecessary.Now that is truly disgusting and I don't know how it is still allowed to go on throughout the world. I'm pretty sure that sometimes they don't have a choice. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by Flatbush41 on Tue Mar 29 23:24:56 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:12:14 2005. Well maybe the store would be geared towards the natives of w/e country they came from. If they don't generate the business they expected as a result of a non-English sign that's their problem although they COULD at least have a bilingual sign as a 'compromise'. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:26:25 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 19:02:20 2005. It's pretty obvious you have a problem with people of other ethnicities and skin color.Ron, thanks for having debated me on the merits of my arguments in this thread rather than hint at any undertones of racism you may think I possess. The working sociology of various groups and ethnicities will probably be one of our ideological differences we cannot overcome. I accept that. I don't call it a "problem" as much as a "difficulty understanding" the overall mentality of people of other skin colors and ethnicities with regard to their incorporation into our culture. Large-scale bilingual education, Affirmative Action, an explosion of welfare cases, and surging illegal immigration are relatively modern phenomena, and it is my contention that all of these are causing great harm to traditional American values of discipline, achievement, and allegiance. At what point will all these so-called "temporary" crutches no longer be necessary, or vastly reduced once second- and third-generation immigrants have their first-generation brethren to assist them rather than the Government and the general public? At what point will Affirmative Action become a thing of the past instead of a mushrooming monster? At what point will foreign baseball players to whom we are paying a king's ransom see it in their conscience to respect our National Anthem? Despite what you may think as a "problem," these are very valid views to take. They are contrarian, but it is not "racist" or "problematic" to view the intentions of others unlike you with skepticism especially if you see and hear about cases in which these people seek to go against your interests. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by Flatbush41 on Tue Mar 29 23:30:19 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:51:55 2005. I wouldn't say that it is necessarily offensive if they don't learn English but I agree that they should learn it aside from their native language. If they choose not to learn, it WILL hurt them in the long run. |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:31:36 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by Flatbush41 on Tue Mar 29 23:24:56 2005. Fabulous. Then I should be able to put up a sign that effectively says "White Jews Only" in plain English and not have any problems, right?If I don't get enough business, could I put up another sign in small letters underneath that says "Okay, we'll accept a few Christians, but only Italians?" |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:40:28 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 22:01:18 2005. Agreed, but that is more the immigrant's misfortune, and is an excellent reason for a hard-working (especially cerebrally hard-working) immigrant to learn English.Maybe then the society he immigrated to will then become more fortunate that he arrived. |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:46:56 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Tue Mar 29 18:46:28 2005. You know, I've tried to be nice to you and debate you on the merits of your arguments. As I originally mentioned, you have good questions and sincerely want to change the world. Go for it.But now you are becoming increasingly condescending, insulting, and losing sight of your own arguments just to take some cheap shots at me like some other jerkoff did by calling me Hitler. That's not nice to me, and it makes you look like an ass. Now if you want to argue merits, I am up for it. I spent the better part of two days defending myself on here. Sometimes I was right. Other times I was anxious to learn how I was wrong, and have accepted much of it. That which I didn't, well, that's just an impasse we will have to live with. We could both be right. Okay? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:55:33 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by David of Broadway on Tue Mar 29 22:29:01 2005. I don't know if my upset with immigrants who don't learn English is "offense" or merely my guarding my pockets against a government and society all too eager to accommodate those who don't accommodate themselves.Do I take, on a whole, those who don't learn English in our country as a slight? Yes. It's offensive only in that our unofficially official language is English and not learning it borders on disrespect for a country you chose to immigrate to. And once again, this is simply my take on the matter. |
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Posted by BIE on Wed Mar 30 03:55:43 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:35:47 2005. Seek Help. bu$h loving fascist. |
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Posted by BIE on Wed Mar 30 03:56:48 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 21:57:09 2005. Seek help, bu$h loving fascist. |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Wed Mar 30 06:43:07 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:02:28 2005. It's not philosophical at all. It's downright pragmatic.A vacant storefront and a storefront with signs in a language I don't understand are equivalent to me. In either case, I won't shop there. Neither one is more inconsiderate than the other. The essence of American culture is allowing individuals to do as they please as long as they don't unduly interfere with others. As long as the Swahili store is in compliance with city, state, and federal law and isn't interfering with your right to live your life, what's the problem? I don't attend sporting events. I've never eaten at a McDonald's. I've never been to church on Sunday. I don't live in a suburban subdivision. I don't own an SUV. I share very few "cultural" traits with most Americans. Shall I resign my citizenship? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Mar 30 08:45:23 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:47:53 2005. "Do I have the solution to this conundrum? Not necessarily. But I know enough that there is something that needs to be done, because it is unacceptable to have to move because of some radical change knocking you out of your comfort zone, as well as foisting this change upon a non-receptive public."Nobody is having you move. If a person move because you are not "comfortable," that is on that person, not on anyone else. Nothing has to change here except attitude and possibly an improvement in that person's social skills. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Mar 30 08:47:07 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by David of Broadway on Tue Mar 29 22:24:34 2005. " I have never owned a store. Am I therefore inconsiderate?"I'm calling 911 right now. They'll be coming to get you! :0) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Mar 30 08:48:47 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by David of Broadway on Wed Mar 30 06:43:07 2005. Hell, you're a freaking traitor. Off with your head!:0) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Mar 30 08:53:17 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:26:25 2005. "I don't call it a "problem" as much as a "difficulty understanding" the overall mentality of people of other skin colors and ethnicities with regard to their incorporation into our culture."And your own dealings with them. But your acknowledgment of your own difficulty is a positive thing, and I encourage you to learn more. "Large-scale bilingual education, Affirmative Action, an explosion of welfare cases, and surging illegal immigration are relatively modern phenomena, and it is my contention that all of these are causing great harm to traditional American values of discipline, achievement, and allegiance." Obviously, I don't agree with you. I think there's no evidence to support that. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Mar 30 08:54:57 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:40:28 2005. Agreed with your post. |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Mar 30 08:57:27 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 16:22:20 2005. Just a little clarification, BrooklynQB: when I talk about the U.S. having a very individualistic culture I don't mean that we value people who are different and unique. What I mean is that we expect people to sink or swim on their own efforts to a greater extent than most other cultures in the world. I mean that it's one of our national beliefs that a person can meet all his or her own needs alone without the help of other people.Mark |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Mar 30 09:03:39 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:40:28 2005. The immigrant is at a disadvantage if he or she doesn't learn English. Of course, I can hardly fault someone who doesn't have time to learn English because he or she is working 12 hours a day six days a week at some menial job.But the truth is that even if they don't learn English there children will. What's more, their bilingual children will most likely produce grandchildren who speak only English. This is what most studies of immigrant populations carried out by linguists have shown. Even the Spanish language doesn't seem to survive past the first generation, the experts say. Mark |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Mar 30 10:04:04 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by M15 to South Ferry on Tue Mar 29 18:32:15 2005. Not the first time someone's wife got suckered into what seemed to be a good deal and ended up getting her husband in hot water. |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Mar 30 10:59:00 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:31:36 2005. If you put it up in Hebrew only, yeah, I guess...your pal, Fred |
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Posted by M15 to South Ferry on Wed Mar 30 12:10:53 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:06:57 2005. Thanks! |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Wed Mar 30 14:42:08 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:46:56 2005. I did argue merits. But really, even if you aren't that "Paris" ass, many people of your ilk are. The fact is, you're insulted that those Chinese, Russian, and Spanish newcomers don't cater to your language. Hey, it's their loss, not yours. I never called you Hitler, and I speak the truth that I have never called another person Hilter. As for calling their veiws Nazi-ish, some of them are. The fact is, you're taking this way too personally. I for one can appreacte the value of immigrants for the fact that many of the expericnecs I have had in life have involved the good people being immigrants. If there's no immigrants, there is no America. Both sides of the poltical aisle realize that and so do the true Americans. Time for you to catch up. |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Wed Mar 30 14:45:29 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:35:47 2005. No, just hatred of therocracy that are direct paralells of Iran and the like. |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Wed Mar 30 14:47:06 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by M15 to South Ferry on Wed Mar 30 12:10:53 2005. [b]awesome![/b] |
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Posted by M15 to South Ferry on Wed Mar 30 14:55:52 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Mar 30 08:53:17 2005. To some extent he's right especially the illeagal immigration and not fully learning English part. Bilingual education didn't make much of a difference for NYC and was pretty costly to maintain. |
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Posted by American Pig on Wed Mar 30 15:38:50 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:02:28 2005. But these places make conscious efforts to do as the Romans do when in Rome.Their signs are in Italian too? :-) |
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Posted by M15 to South Ferry on Wed Mar 30 15:46:59 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Wed Mar 30 14:47:06 2005. Close, but Awesome![] -> < > |
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Posted by BIE on Wed Mar 30 15:47:18 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Wed Mar 30 14:47:06 2005. awesomeUse <> instead of []. |
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Posted by American Pig on Wed Mar 30 15:47:40 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:35:47 2005. Did they develop a class-conscious caste system here? Did they restrict religious practice (which, for the most part, was the same except for very subtle differences)? Did they establish a monarchical or dictatorial government without free elections? NO. So they DIDN'T take most of their old-world customs with them.Yes, they DID take most of their customs with them. It's a myth that all of the colonies were places of religion freedom and the like. Many of the colonies had state religions and/or dictatorial governments and lost those practices only after the Revolution. Various odious practices lasted even longer than that. |
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Posted by American Pig on Wed Mar 30 15:50:44 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:31:36 2005. But if you open a religious goods store for Jews, your sign, even if in English will always effectively say "Jews only." Should you be prohibited from having such a store? |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Mar 30 15:51:29 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by American Pig on Wed Mar 30 15:47:40 2005. Even our notions of freedom were imported from England... |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Mar 30 15:53:10 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:35:47 2005. Did they restrict religious practice (which, for the most part, was the same except for very subtle differences)?Actually, Puritan Massachusetts was very repressive when it came to religious freedom. Mark |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Wed Mar 30 15:53:43 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 23:06:57 2005. lalala |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Mar 30 15:57:18 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:35:47 2005. Contrast that with today's immigrants. I see saris, burqas, exclusively foreign-languaged signs, and God knows what backward, superstitious, and barbaric customs occur outside the public eye that our culture has deemed unacceptable (like cockfighting, polygamy, and female genital mutilation, to name just three). America isn't infinitely elastic to accept all these radical changes and incorporate them in some productive manner.People said the same kind of stuff about the immigrants who came here in the 1800s. People were sure Catholic Irish immigrants could never assimilate into Protestant America. They were even more wary of Jews from Eastern Europe. Go back to the 1700s and we find Ben Franklin writing how German and English people were just too different to ever coexist in Pennsylvania. Trust me, the grandchildren of these immigrants will be so assimilated it will make their grandparents sick. Mark |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Mar 30 16:05:49 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by American Pig on Wed Mar 30 15:50:44 2005. You're right! From now on every store should only sell stuff that I want to buy!: ) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Mar 30 16:43:54 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by M15 to South Ferry on Wed Mar 30 14:55:52 2005. OK, you have a point about whether or not bilingual education is cost-effective. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Mar 30 16:50:05 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:35:47 2005. "Did they develop a class-conscious caste system here? Did they restrict religious practice (which, for the most part, was the same except for very subtle differences)? "Yes, they DID! They burned people at the stake for the sake of ignorant nonsense and did allm kinds of stupid things. It took the framing of a Constitution to put the brakes on some of that evil. You need to restudy your history. Don't complain about immigrants while you get half your own facts wrong. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Mar 30 16:50:55 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Mar 30 15:51:29 2005. True. Here they were put into a written Bill of Rights. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Mar 30 16:51:48 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by American Pig on Wed Mar 30 15:38:50 2005. You don't need signs to point me to the priazzo and pasta Alfredo.:0) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Mar 30 16:53:00 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Mar 30 16:05:49 2005. Money back guarantee on anything you didn't want to buy.:0) |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Mar 30 17:36:36 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Mar 30 16:43:54 2005. OK, you have a point about whether or not bilingual education is cost-effective.I want to be careful what I say here since my wife is a bilingual teacher, but even when bilingual education doesn't work, procreation does. Linguists tell us that the children of immigrants almost always learn English, even if their parents don't. What's more, the grandchildren of immigrants almost always speak only English. Mark |
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Posted by M15 to South Ferry on Wed Mar 30 17:51:50 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Mar 30 17:36:36 2005. I'm one of them. Most of the time I can hardly understand my grandparents and I speak broken Cantonese back. But at least I still get along fine w/them just that I can't fully communicate w/them is the problem. |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Mar 30 17:52:35 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Mar 30 17:36:36 2005. My son is married to a Romanian Jewish girl.Her parent's are fluent in English , but their thick accents sometimes give them problems. My son's wife , on the other hand , speaks English sans the accent. It's exactly what you are saying. |
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Posted by BMT Dude on Wed Mar 30 17:57:16 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:35:47 2005. Geez....a BIG chill pill is in order here. |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Mar 30 17:58:58 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by M15 to South Ferry on Wed Mar 30 17:51:50 2005. My mother couldn't speak with her grandparents either. They spoke an odd German dialect. My father spoke his grandparents' language, Slovak, as a child, but has since forgotten it. Me, I only know English and clumsy Spanish!Mark |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Wed Mar 30 18:00:54 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Mar 30 17:52:35 2005. I had a friend in high school who was first generation Indian-American. He spoke with the same Mississippi accent as everyone else in school, but he could immitate his dad's Punjabi accent pretty well. He used to pretend he was fresh off the boat whenever he wanted to mess with the clerks at McDonald's!Mark |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by BMT Dude on Wed Mar 30 18:06:21 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:03:06 2005. Adam, I hate to ruffle your feathers, but in reality the MAJORITY of people that live in the Americas (combining North and South) speak Spanish. Those that speak English are in the MINORITY, so we have no right here in the USA -- only ONE country among many -- in this part of the hemisphere, to make it a mandate that foreigners MUST speak English. Don't forget that almost all of them are MAJORITY Spanish-speaking countries as was MOST OF NORTH AMERICA's Western territories prior to the famous 'land rush' of the late 19th Century. |
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