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| Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? (21793) | |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:36:31 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 17:14:18 2005. That’s a great point, Ron, but then the problem becomes: How much of our economy's expansion is built on the backs of illegal labor, and how much expansion can take place under the current levels of regulation or lack thereof, and taxation, without illegal immigration?How much less expansion will be tolerated should the "true" figure be less but of higher stability without illegal immigration? How much more expansion would occur if taxes were lower or fairer as a result of less illegal immigration, curtailing underground activity? To me, it seems like this problem has the hydraulics of a bag of water. Put your hand down here, the water shifts there. Put your hand down there, the water shifts here. Put both hands down, the bag breaks. Okay: I am against illegal immigration. No lies. Punt them all, and let's pay, say 100% more across the board for goods and services, similar to what we are currently doing for gasoline. My guess -- just a guess, now -- is that people will become used to the increase after about a year. After all, the increase will be across-the-board, similiar to gasoline, so there will be nearly uniform costs and pricing. Will business stand for it? No. But then how come the gasoline companies don't seem to mind the huge increases? They just pass them onto the consumer. Why can’t that happen in the service industry? Oh yes, because labor (not product) costs will rise. But if ALL labor costs across all competitors rise uniformly, then all they need to do is pass these increased costs onto the consumers, who will then come to expect them. Maybe I have too much faith in humanity. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:41:30 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by David of Broadway on Tue Mar 29 17:32:23 2005. but I don't see how it's offensive.We agree until this point, David. What makes it offensive is that it is inconsiderate to those who speak only English (or happen to not speak Swahili) in a predominantly English-speaking country. It smacks of not giving a damn about those who gave you the opportunity or forum to open your store. A small point, I admit, but an indication of the degeneration of civic values that began this thread. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by L Train on Tue Mar 29 17:50:07 2005, in response to Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 13:10:01 2005. It's not that people hate people. People hate people who disagree with them and/or do not conform to their image. Terrorists are trying to force their religion on people. Boys in high school who aren't jocks are called geeks. Girls that aren't rail thin or who wear glasses are made fun of. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:51:55 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by David of Broadway on Tue Mar 29 17:34:24 2005. I also see no reason to force people to learn English if they think they can get by without knowing it.They know they can get by without it because we do go out of our way to accommodate their native languages, especially if they are Chinese or Spanish, and to a lesser extent, Russian. Forty years ago, there were NO governmental fora that conducted business or disseminated information in any language but English. Those immigrants truly had to learn English to get by. Nowadays, that is simply not the case. These immigrants become less interested in politics, policy, and the betterment of America and themselves as a whole. Can we agree that there are vastly more opportunities and a richer life here available to those who know English, or is this fact somehow "racist" and must be overlooked or amended to reflect softer sensibilities? |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:56:13 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by UWS Greg on Tue Mar 29 17:30:43 2005. Excellent mention of the health purpose of circumcision.FGM is done solely to prevent a woman from enjoying sexual intercourse, and is therefore TRULY unnecessary. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Tue Mar 29 18:05:17 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 16:55:12 2005. Mr SilverFox, there is an example of a place where everyone is required to become "countrymen":The Soviet Union. Enough said. Demand people speak english, yes. Demand people dispose their own cuture and forget their history and values, no. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by M15 to South Ferry on Tue Mar 29 18:25:57 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Tue Mar 29 18:05:17 2005. Of course not, no one expects/demands ppl to reject their culture, just speak english like the rest of us - they are in th US so if they want something they should learn their new nation's language not force us to understand them. Surely you can understand that. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Mar 29 18:30:34 2005, in response to Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Mon Mar 28 13:10:01 2005. Hate has existed since the time of Cain and Abel. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by M15 to South Ferry on Tue Mar 29 18:32:15 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Mar 29 18:30:34 2005. More murder and anger. I think Adam was angry at Eve for letting him share the apple and blamed her for disobeying God. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Tue Mar 29 18:46:28 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by R143 on Tue Mar 29 17:02:09 2005. Here's something to chew on:If I'm a Chinatown store owner, where 95% of my customers are either chinese-americans with strong cultural roots, or Chinese born/visitors, why the heck should my store be in english? What, so I can sell crap to Nebraskan tourists who will never come back anyway? If you're a true NYer, you'll use your....*drumroll*....BRAIN, and see that "Ooh, there is (food) in there, so it must be a (foodstore). Then you'll go in and sak where the duck sauce is. I'm sure they'll at least be able to give you some sort of answer or even show you where. And the funny thing is, your probably the same retard that goes to Paris and expects the matradiee to speak english as well. I bet the natives in Paris think your an ass as well. So don't do it to others. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Tue Mar 29 18:51:51 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by M15 to South Ferry on Tue Mar 29 18:25:57 2005. I said the same thing. But this guy obvisouly hates immigrants. Immigrants put Americans to shame, period. Many know 2-3 or more languages. They master our economic system like no one else. They're neighborhoods may be dirty, but they are more lively and communtiy oriented than the most prestine exo-burb. In short, they're the true Americans. Period. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by M15 to South Ferry on Tue Mar 29 18:56:51 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Tue Mar 29 18:51:51 2005. Well glad to see you stand on the same issue. The only immigrants I don't appreciate much are the illegals. IF they came here legally then they are fine by me.All illegals should be deported. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Tue Mar 29 19:01:56 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:36:31 2005. You want me to pay 100% more becasue of your xenophobia? Hell no, you can take your wonderbread views to Kansas where they never heard of immigrants (which will change soon). I'll stay here in the Northeast, or South, or West, or Europe/Canada/Austrialia, which are all booming due to immigrants.One day, when that Chinese grocery store is all you can afford, due to George Bush's "fuzzy math" economics, you think about what you said. True, everyone speaking english should be a must. But hating them, that's bad policy and Americanism. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 19:02:20 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:51:55 2005. "These immigrants become less interested in politics, policy, and the betterment of America and themselves as a whole."There are plenty of English speakers with those attitudes. "Forty years ago, there were NO governmental fora that conducted business or disseminated information in any language but English. " False. "Can we agree that there are vastly more opportunities and a richer life here available to those who know English," Absolutely correct - and it's up to them to seek opportunity and take advantage of it. Nobody will spoon-feed it to them. "or is this fact somehow "racist" and must be overlooked or amended to reflect softer sensibilities?" It's pretty obvious you have a problem with people of other ethnicities and skin color. I've read your posts since you started on the old Subtalk and the message you're consistently conveying is one of fear and hatred. You can call that anything you want, but I call it an opportunity to talk to a therapist or counselor and hopefully get some self-insight as to the problem. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Tue Mar 29 19:06:33 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:51:55 2005. 100 years ago, you we're lucky to find a single neighborhood in Chicago, NY, Philly or elsewhere that did speak english over Galic, Italian, Russian, Yiddish and the like.And that was the "good ol' days". |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 19:07:56 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:41:30 2005. "We agree until this point, David. What makes it offensive is that it is inconsiderate to those who speak only English (or happen to not speak Swahili) in a predominantly English-speaking country. It smacks of not giving a damn about those who gave you the opportunity or forum to open your store."You're assuming a consideration nobody owes you. The consideration they owe you is to be law-abiding (including pay taxes, observe city codes and regs etc.) and to not violate your rights. Do you commonly go into a store and make it clear to the owner that they "owe" you something? I speak perfect English and if you approach that way you're not going to get far. I'll assume you're a low-grade moron and end the interaction early. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Tue Mar 29 19:08:51 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by L Train on Tue Mar 29 17:50:07 2005. And evangilical chirstians aren't trying to do the same thing here in America?... |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 19:16:20 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Tue Mar 29 19:01:56 2005. "You want me to pay 100% more becasue of your xenophobia? Hell no, you can take your wonderbread views to Kansas where they never heard of immigrants (which will change soon). I'll stay here in the Northeast, or South, or West, or Europe/Canada/Austrialia, which are all booming due to immigrants."Kansas knows all about migrant labor. I pay a reputable landscaping company to mow my lawns and tend to my shrubs and trees. I pay by check made out to the company, not in cash, and the company is bonded and insured. The crews are 100% Spanish speakers, mostly from Mexico. Do they all have work papers? I don't know. The sales guy represents to me that they do, and I take his word for it. They use the machines safely, they have water bottles with them to drink, and they do a good job. No one else I could hire would be any different. I don't hire some 12 year old kid down the block to do it because if his lawn mower eats his hand one day or runs over his foot, it's my fault (he has no insurance save what his parents might have as health insurance, and we live in a litigious society). |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 19:17:58 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:56:13 2005. You are correct. In this country, if you do that to someone not of legal majority, it's called child abuse and assault and battery. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue Mar 29 19:19:34 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by M15 to South Ferry on Tue Mar 29 18:56:51 2005. The only immigrants I don't appreciate much are the illegals. IF they came here legally then they are fine by me.All illegals should be deported. ISAWTP. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 19:23:10 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Tue Mar 29 19:08:51 2005. Some certainly are. They want a theocracy, not a democracy.There is precedent for this. The Puritans came to this land because the English persecuted them - but the Puritans believed it was their God-given right to persecute everyone else who idn't agree with them. Fortunately the framers of our Constitution saw the danger and evil of that; some of the worst evangelicals today, quite frankly, do not believe in our Constitution (despite their lies to the contrary) and would not uphold it, given the chance. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Mar 29 20:20:47 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 16:55:12 2005. What is the point of being in this country if you are going to take all your old-world customs, many of which are contradictory to ours, with you?Good point. We should go back to the customs of the original residents of the United States. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Mar 29 20:24:38 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:41:30 2005. We agree until this point, David. What makes it offensive is that it is inconsiderate to those who speak only English (or happen to not speak Swahili) in a predominantly English-speaking country. It smacks of not giving a damn about those who gave you the opportunity or forum to open your store.I guess when you travel in a foreign country you must also be offended when you see a sign in English. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Mar 29 20:26:52 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:51:55 2005. Can we agree that there are vastly more opportunities and a richer life here available to those who know EnglishAbsolutely. People who live in the US and don't make an effort to learn English are doing themselves a huge disservice. I feel sorry for them. But they don't offend me. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Mar 29 20:29:02 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:04:59 2005. And even in the fairly recent past, the parents DID assimilate along with the kids.I know a fair number of people who lived 50 or more years in this country without ever learning English. That some parents never bother to learn English is not a new phenomenon. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Mar 29 20:31:16 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:04:59 2005. "And most of those past immigrants were LEGAL. There was no tolerance for illegal immigration. "My neighbor tried to do some genealogical research on her father who came to the US in the 1930s. She just couldn't find any record of his arrival. Then she realized that he'd come here illegally! I had another neighbor who died a few years ago after 60 years (1928-1998) living here illegally. These are not rare cases. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Tue Mar 29 20:36:00 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by AlM on Tue Mar 29 20:20:47 2005. I will personally rebuild the USSR if that happens.No, seriously, Europe would see a lot of new residents if that happened. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by brooklynQB on Tue Mar 29 20:38:22 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by AlM on Tue Mar 29 20:31:16 2005. Yes. And remember, the Italians, Jews, Russians, Eastern Europeans, and Irish all brought crime and gang actvity to the cities. Heck, Manhattan was more dangerous in 1904 than in 2004, there is actual statistics to back that up. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Mar 29 21:06:25 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:12:14 2005. It's also possible that the store owner with the non-English sign doesn't speak enough English himself to deal with English-speaking customers.My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 29 21:10:47 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:51:55 2005. Forty years ago, there were NO governmental fora that conducted business or disseminated information in any language but English. Those immigrants truly had to learn English to get by. Nowadays, that is simply not the case. These immigrants become less interested in politics, policy, and the betterment of America and themselves as a whole.My grandparents on my fathers side came to this country in the 1920's from Germany (not together, they met here) and didn't know a word of English when they got off the boat....but they learned. They broke their asses to make it in this country, and learning English was the first step. My father was born here, so of course, he learned English in just as any other kid born here did right away. My grandparents on my mother's side came here from the Netherlands with the whole family (the two of them, and their four children, and none of them spoke a word of English when they got off the boat in the 1950's). They also broke their asses to make it here. The first thing my grandfather did was buy them a TV, even though they didn't have a pot to piss in. He figured that would help them learn English. They all did. There were no German and English signs everywhere in the 1920 and 30's even though there were hourdes of Germans here (as it was so bad in Germany back then). And of course there were no signs catering to the Dutch in the 1950's either. They had to learn the language. I don't agree that everything should be in "Spanish and English" or in "Chinese and ENglish", etc, etc. If they come here, they should learn the language. ALl the other immigrants for centuries had to also. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Mar 29 21:11:21 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by UWS Greg on Tue Mar 29 17:30:43 2005. Well, bro, the medical advantages of circumcision are rather compelling, whether some choose to accept it or not. Study after study has shown that "cut" males are far less prone to STDs-- which makes sense when you think of it. Just less "hiding places" for nasty germs to fester, reproduce and spread.On the other hand, having a German helmet considerably reduces a man's earnings potential in the adult-movie industry. Anteaters are in much greater demand, probably because they look bigger. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 29 21:18:56 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by UWS Greg on Tue Mar 29 17:30:43 2005. Study after study has shown that "cut" males are far less prone to STDs-- which makes sense when you think of it. Just less "hiding places" for nasty germs to fester, reproduce and spread.Totally irrelevant in modern countries where hygene is easy. There are plenty places for germs to fester in the female anatomy too, but we don't cut off parts of the female genitalia here. Most dramatically, a tribe in Africa that practices ritual circumcision on newborn boys has an AIDS rate of close to zero-- unlike the rest of Africa which has been decimated by it. We are talking about the United States. You are talking about some third world country where they are lucky to probably get one shower a month, if even. There are even documented studies showing that "cut" males have a lower incidence of penile cancer. Yeah, it's like 1 in a 100,000 men that get penile cancer (it's quite rare). So we cut 99,999 males in order to have 1 saved from penile cancer? That's good medical practice? |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 29 21:21:20 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:56:13 2005. Excellent mention of the health purpose of circumcision.The health benefits are quite controversial. In Europe less than 5% of males are circumcised, and that is usually only for religious reasons. I don't see some great epidemic in Europe because most men there are intact. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Mar 29 21:22:40 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 29 21:10:47 2005. Some immigrant experiences were different. My grandmother on my father's side came to America from Italy at age 20 just before World War I, and died at age 80 in 1974 never having learned more than rather basic English. She raised eight children and a couple of grandchildren, never held a job or learned to drive, and ventured out of the house only on rare occasions. I suppose under those circumstances it wasn't surprising that she never really learned English. She was an elderly woman by the time I was old enough to know her, and by that time she had forgotten what little English she had learned and had reverted almost entirely to Italian (not uncommon in elderly immigrants, from what I've heard).My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 29 21:26:03 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by UWS Greg on Tue Mar 29 17:04:48 2005. I am also bilingual. That is of course an asset. No one is saying that people shouldn't be bilingual, or speak 5 languages. More poer to them. However, if they choose to live and work here, one of them should be English. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Mar 29 21:28:40 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 19:16:20 2005. I pay a reputable landscaping company to mow my lawns and tend to my shrubs and trees. I pay by check made out to the company, not in cash, and the company is bonded and insured.The crews are 100% Spanish speakers, mostly from Mexico. Do they all have work papers? I don't know. The sales guy represents to me that they do, and I take his word for it. They use the machines safely, they have water bottles with them to drink, and they do a good job. No one else I could hire would be any different. Almost all the landscaping workers on Long Island are immigrants, mostly Mexican and Salvadoran. Landscape work might be the type of thing that serves as a relatively manageable introduction to the working world for immigrants. It doesn't require any specialized skills or English-speaking ability, and being physically demanding is not the sort of thing that Americans - most of whom consider a weekly round of cartball a killer workout - particularly enjoy. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 21:47:48 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 19:07:56 2005. I'll assume you're a low-grade moron and end the interaction early.Hey wait a minute. How the hell have I insulted you here in arguing what you consider to be an incorrect viewpoint? Oh yeah. I'm younger than you are, and I am farther to the right than you are. Automatic grist for your insult mill. Oh well, ASSume away. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 21:57:09 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by AlM on Tue Mar 29 20:24:38 2005. I wouldn't be offended, just like I believe non-English speakers here are not offended seeing a sign in their own language.I wonder, though, if the host country's population is offended by the sight of the English-only sign. If they are, they have every right to be. But look: My views may or not have merit in any of your eyes. That's not the aim. The aim is to attempt to hypothesize about the original poster's assertion that there is so much discord in the world because people hate other people. "Hate" is not the proper word. There are so many different interests that it is impossible to satisfy all of them. Therefore, the dissatisfied will have a natural tendency to want to minimize that with which it disagrees, by moving, emigrating, or amending legislation to ultimately favor itself. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 21:58:03 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 21:47:48 2005. I told you how I would react if approached a particular way. However, I did not intend that as an insult on your character, so I apologize if it sounded like that.But I meant what I said about how I would react to a specific behavior. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 22:01:18 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 29 21:10:47 2005. Not learning English does not mean you don't have a good work ethic. You may not be working "smart" even if you are working hard.You won't get as far - but honest work earns respect even if the person doesn't speak English. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 29 22:02:13 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Mar 29 21:22:40 2005. It's true, they usually revert back to their native language when they get old. The little German I know is from my grandmother that sploke "Germanish" in her later years (even though she used to speak perfect English years earlier).As for my other Grandmother, I learned to understand and speak Dutch because she and my mother and Aunts and Uncles usually spoke Dutch among themselves, with English thrown in between. She too spoke English pretty good, but as she got older spkoke more and more "half and half". |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 22:02:54 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Mar 29 21:28:40 2005. Agreed! |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:03:06 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 21:58:03 2005. Oh pardon me. Now I see the context.I would not demand perfect English from everybody I saw. I would, like most non-American foreigners, appreciate your attempt, and do anything you asked to assist you in learning our language, which I happen to be very proud of. But I just can't help not being able to shake a stigma I have about modern-day immigrants (in general) behaving like dead weight against our efforts at true unity through language and culture. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:19:06 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by brooklynQB on Tue Mar 29 18:05:17 2005. Enough said. Demand people speak english, yes. Demand people dispose their own cuture and forget their history and values, no.You're assuming I want all immigrants to forget their history and values, which is incorrect. There are many displays of culture and values in our society which are presented in a historical and even festive sense. There are parades, street fairs, places of worship, "social studies" classes in schools, and other outlets to help people learn about, remember, and celebrate their values. But the American culture is decidedly different from African, Asian, Indian, Caribbean, and even European culture. European culture, for one example, is very class-conscious, while ours is more egalitarian, although you may disagree. The differences are far more obvious in other cultures. Do you want an America that openly accepts traditions from other very different cultures permeating our own? Do you want to HAVE TO live your life by their superstitions, eat by their religious dietary requirements, and generally feel like an outsider when you walk through their neighborhoods? I am for diversity. I eat real Eastern Chinese food like one other member of this board. Every year I go to Chinatown for lychees and longans, and I order "Dai Bao" and "Cha Siu Fan" in Chinese, to the amazement of the people behind the counter. I eat "stinking" curry at least a couple of times a month, although admittedly I am not very adventuresome in that realm. My girlfriend hates it, but I don't mind it on an exceptional basis. But those are my choices. Every year, the line of scrimmage moves further south and east from Main Street where it is difficult to get away from the Korean and Chinese influence on the neighborhood. That is outside my comfort zone. Yes, these people work their asses off to live in such stable neighborhoods, but others use those homes to warehouse their underlings, sometimes twelve to fifteen at a time, creating a burden on the infrastructure surrounding these havens. The whole "flavor" of the neighborhood changes, from low-density to higher density, and the types of businesses in the neighborhoods change away from those I would normally frequent. Are those good things? How much is too much? THOSE are the questions that cause me to feel the way I do, and to answer your original question, cause me to think twice about wanting to stay in a particular area, or feel suspicious about the intents of others to the point I don't want to interact with them. Does that make me somehow bad, or just different? |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 22:24:09 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:03:06 2005. But those are not "our" efforts. The Constitution provides that every person shall be able to seek happiness without defining what that is. While the vast majority of us will adhere to some defacto standards, others will not. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Tue Mar 29 22:24:34 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:41:30 2005. How is it inconsiderate? As far as you're concerned, the store does not exist (since you have no way of knowing what it sells). So pretend it doesn't exist.I have never owned a store. Am I therefore inconsiderate? And how would I be any less considerate if I owned a store that for whatever reason you were unable to use? In either case, you can't shop in my store. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Tue Mar 29 22:29:01 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 17:51:55 2005. I agree with your last paragraph.And I also agree that we've gone too far in accomodating people who could learn English but don't bother. But I don't take offense at people who choose not to learn English. I just think it's stupid. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:35:47 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by AlM on Tue Mar 29 20:20:47 2005. AIM, until about forty years ago, most of our immigration was European in nature. But let's take it back to the Mayflower to prove my point.The original colonists wanted to leave Europe's class-consciousness, religious oppression, and monarchies. They wanted freedom. So, they traveled to what they thought was virgin land. Did they develop a class-conscious caste system here? Did they restrict religious practice (which, for the most part, was the same except for very subtle differences)? Did they establish a monarchical or dictatorial government without free elections? NO. So they DIDN'T take most of their old-world customs with them. Contrast that with today's immigrants. I see saris, burqas, exclusively foreign-languaged signs, and God knows what backward, superstitious, and barbaric customs occur outside the public eye that our culture has deemed unacceptable (like cockfighting, polygamy, and female genital mutilation, to name just three). America isn't infinitely elastic to accept all these radical changes and incorporate them in some productive manner. |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:47:53 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 29 22:24:09 2005. Which brings us now to the original poster's assertions: I believe he thinks that people who want to move away from or voice against the changes as have occurred in our area are somehow "hateful" when all I am trying to state is that they are unhappy with these changes and want to either stem them or move. Both are acceptable solutions according to the Constitution as well as custom.All I aimed to illustrate to him and the group was that I felt there were very valid concerns people have. I possess many of them. These concerns may not be agreeable, and may not be voiced in a flattering manner, but they do exist, and are acted upon with great numbers, causing very manifest effects against neighborhoods and even cities. Do I have the solution to this conundrum? Not necessarily. But I know enough that there is something that needs to be done, because it is unacceptable to have to move because of some radical change knocking you out of your comfort zone, as well as foisting this change upon a non-receptive public. Where is the happy medium? |
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Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people? |
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Posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:48:53 2005, in response to Re: Answer to the enitre worlds problems and trends: People simply hate people?, posted by SilverFox on Tue Mar 29 22:47:53 2005. Whoops! Forgot to close the html tag after "unhappy." Sorry. |
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