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| (173358) | |
New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 10:31:26 2006 I've given up hope. This city is destined to sink deeper and deeper into second-class status. Now comes the word that the proposed NASCAR track on Staten Island won't be built. The fastest-growing sport in the world, one which is sweeping the nation by storm - well, we won't have it.Let's see, Ground Zero is a hole in the ground with no hope that construction will begin anytime in the foreseeable future, the Fulton transit hub is getting smaller all the time, we have no Wal-Marts, and the Second Avenue Subway ... we all know that story. So now it's the NASCAR track that'll never get built. Given typical New York thinking, the huge tract of land on Staten Island will be used to build more Medicaid-supported and wholly redundant hospitals. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Tue Dec 5 10:34:20 2006, in response to New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 10:31:26 2006. If it's going into second class status, why do immigrants come here like a mouse to cheese? Why not hit up Boston or Philly or Toronto instead? They could use the additional diversity.If there was an opportunity to push things further in the ground, someone in Ottawa would do something to woo jaded Americans across the border. Something more than Cohibas and drunken 19 year olds without fake ID's. If Canada could get jaded Americans, watch out... |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 10:43:26 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Scrabbleship on Tue Dec 5 10:34:20 2006. If it's going into second class status, why do immigrants come here like a mouse to cheese? Why not hit up Boston or Philly or Toronto instead? They could use the additional diversity.There are a number of reasons: Tradition The existence of many people who speak your language You don't need a car to get around Less hostility toward immigrants than in many other places A comprehensive social welfare system My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Tue Dec 5 10:48:30 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 10:43:26 2006. With the possible exception of tradition (and possibly hostility in Boston), all of these would just as much apply to any established city as they would to New York. If they're looking for social welfare, why not head up to the Great White North. They need people to prop up their losses due to tbe brain drain and being in the cities isn't as bad as it seems.Maybe immigrants know that the MTA is superior to SEPTA/MBTA/TTC:-p. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 5 11:10:47 2006, in response to New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 10:31:26 2006. Heh. DEWD ... New York can ALWAYS regain its stature by towing away someone's HUMMER, and then putting it up on CEE-ment blocks in Times Square after knocking down the COHEN monument! Hang a reb flag on top, and you've got you an EXY-bishon!NASCAR was formed among a group of moonshine runners in Tennessee with their hopped-up monshine runner cars. Is THIS something that identifies New York? Nope. Maybe NYC should pursue NASCAR when Georgia learns HOW to "find the queen." (grin) "NASCAR ATHLETES." Hahahahahahahaha. NYC *still* has a chance! Let them open up a "COLOREDS ONLY" water fountain in Central Park ... there ya go! |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Andrew Kirschner on Tue Dec 5 11:21:58 2006, in response to New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 10:31:26 2006. Uh...Peter...Ground Zero countruction has started, Freedom Tower included. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 11:39:55 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 5 11:10:47 2006. NASCAR has gone way beyond its Southern redneck roots. It's now a sport with nationwide appeal (well, except in New York), full of corporate sponsorships, and with an increasingly upscale audience base. The fan sitting next to you at a race is more likely to be a banking executive or IT professional from a fancy suburb than some gas station attendant named Bubba from a hick town. Cities all over the country are building ever-larger tracks, once again except for New York.My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by American Pig on Tue Dec 5 12:01:06 2006, in response to New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 10:31:26 2006. Your idea that people will stop moving to or investing in New York because it lacks a NASCAR track is preposterous.Los Angeles lacks an NFL franchise. Do you feel this makes it a second class city? Despite your hatred of it, pro football is way more popular than stock car racing. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 5 12:12:43 2006, in response to New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 10:31:26 2006. Your priorities are screwed on backwards. Sounds like you should move to Tennessee or Georgia. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 5 12:25:51 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 11:39:55 2006. SPORT? Hahahahahahaha ... dewd ... I *LIVE* in souped-up chevy land here. NASCAR? Even Joe BRUNO don't go for nastycar ... I dunno ... if Coney Island REALLY wanted to attract the knuckle-draggers, then they should do DEMOLITION DERBY stadium ... and throw in some R68's for drama! :)Interesting demographics ... if THAT'S what bankers and the leet are into these days, I am *SO* glad my money is invested in EUROS! And sure explains BUSH ... but no ... when *I* think of sports, I'm all for catfights and Popeil's "pocket fisherman." More PURE sports. Heh. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 5 12:28:01 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 5 12:12:43 2006. He'd HATE it down there. Lesbians are ILLEGAL! :) |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 12:31:04 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by American Pig on Tue Dec 5 12:01:06 2006. Your idea that people will stop moving to or investing in New York because it lacks a NASCAR track is preposterous.Los Angeles lacks an NFL franchise. Do you feel this makes it a second class city? Despite your hatred of it, pro football is way more popular than stock car racing. Lacking an NFL team is less of a problem because the NFL's mainly a television sport. You can't go to games in person unless you spend years on a waiting list and pay thousands of dollars for season tickets. NASCAR is much more of an in-person experience, though of course it's also on TV. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by American Pig on Tue Dec 5 12:34:07 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 12:31:04 2006. Were there actually an interest in NASCAR in New York, it would be reflected by both the ratings of the "sport" on local television and clamor to build a track. Neither are present. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Tue Dec 5 12:35:01 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 5 12:28:01 2006. Except in Atlanta, Athens, Savannah, Knoxville, Nashville, Memphis, Knoxville, and Chattanooga:-pI kid, I kid... |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Tue Dec 5 12:37:30 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by American Pig on Tue Dec 5 12:34:07 2006. New York isn't indicitive of the rest of America. In fact, draw a 40 mile circle around Times Square and I'd be willing to say that a good chunk of that area sees what the rest of America sees as normal to be foreign and even scary. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 5 12:42:06 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Scrabbleship on Tue Dec 5 12:37:30 2006. You can draw that line out 200 miles too. :) |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 5 12:43:45 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Scrabbleship on Tue Dec 5 12:35:01 2006. Howard Stern wouldn't have a show without 'em! Oh wait ... he DOESN'T have much of a show now anyway. But as to the lesbians ... never could figure that one out - had too many as friends ... dewwwwwwwwwwwd, fantasize all you want, you ain't GETTING any. :) |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Dec 5 12:44:43 2006, in response to New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 10:31:26 2006. Ground Zero is a hole in the ground with no hope that construction will begin anytime in the foreseeable futureAs others have said, construction has already begun. the Fulton transit hub is getting smaller all the time Huh? The only part getting smaller is the glass egg and that's a GOOD thing. we have no Wal-Marts Who cares? And we do have Targets. and the Second Avenue Subway The project is moving right along. So I don't see any problems in the examples you gave. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by JohnL on Tue Dec 5 12:47:14 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Scrabbleship on Tue Dec 5 12:37:30 2006. Because the New York area is much more of a melting pot than the rest of the USA. Still a lot of immigrants and their first/second generation offspring, who have been to home and seen another part of the world and know it’s different.I have to tell you that some of the people you meet in the mid-West (think big square states) are scary in their insularity. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Tue Dec 5 12:47:28 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 5 12:42:06 2006. Hahaha..au contraire:)The Albany area best matches the nation's buying activities and lifestyles Last I checked, Albany was less than 200 miles in:). |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Dec 5 12:49:54 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 10:43:26 2006. Why not hit up Boston or Philly or Toronto instead? They could use the additional diversity.Canada is less of on option because the social welfare state there is no longer as generous (but still better than in the States), and Canada tries to screen out as many uneducated/unskilled immigrants as possible. Unskilled immigrants are de facto pushed towards the United States. There are a number of reasons: Tradition That's slowly less and less true these days. For example, I know of many Caribbean immigrants who didn't even set foot in NYC, but started off in Miami and have moved northward into Orlando or Atlanta for cheap housing and better work. Less hostility toward immigrants than in many other places That's another reason why NYC is still popular, but as the number of immigrants who move to other places grow, you'll see more direct immigration to those centres, especially where there's industrial work. A comprehensive social welfare system That does attract some immigrants here, but most immigrants on welfare are there because the opportunity costs of working are much higher. In contrast, down South where work is ample and housing is cheap, there's a disincentive to be on welfare even if the South had a social welfare state like New York. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Charles G on Tue Dec 5 12:50:43 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 11:39:55 2006. The fan sitting next to you at a race is more likely to be a banking executive or IT professional from a fancy suburb than some gas station attendant named Bubba from a hick townPut down the Kool Aid. Take off the black Nikes. Just step away. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Tue Dec 5 12:57:04 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by JohnL on Tue Dec 5 12:47:14 2006. And the scary insularity of some persons in the midwest can be balanced out by that of those who have spent their whole lives in New York and have never left the main parts of the New York area.One of my roommates at college, who immigrated from a West Indian country as a child and didn't leave the New York area until college, couldn't imagine how the rest of the nation operated. He claimed to have never met a Republican, thought that as soon as you entered Virginia most roads were dirt, and was convinved that Bush would reinstate slavery. Balances out the lily white person in Iowa who has never seen someone differently colored in person and only knows Democrats as evil people from TV. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Tue Dec 5 13:01:36 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Dec 5 12:49:54 2006. Someone please tell me why the US doesn't screen out uneducated/unskilled immigrants? We don't need them and there's no real want for them, but nobody wants to act.Save us Vincente and Stephen. I don't care if I have Latin-style political corruption on top of a GST, I'll feel more free. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Tue Dec 5 13:26:36 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Scrabbleship on Tue Dec 5 12:37:30 2006. New York isn't indicitive of the rest of America. In fact, draw a 40 mile circle around Times Square and I'd be willing to say that a good chunk of that area sees what the rest of America sees as normal to be foreign and even scary.You could probably extend that to cover most of the north-east coast. I dare say that someone from Philly or Boston would perceive themselves as having more in common with the New York America than the "big square states" America. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 13:30:24 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 5 11:10:47 2006. Is THIS something that identifies New York? Nope. Boy, do you need to come to a gathering of my male in-laws. All latino, all NASCAR nuts. NASCAR has outgrown it's Dukes Of Hazzard roots and now appeals to all sorts of men who are into cars. Ask Funkmaster Flex, someone who had to remind Spike Lee that plenty of African-Americans like it as well. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 13:33:57 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 11:39:55 2006. NASCAR is still a sport for the lower classes, but not just those who reside in the old Confederacy, and not just those who'd put that flag on their car roofs. It's revenue intake has been more than the NHL has taken in for about a decade now, making IT the #4 sport, behind the NFL, MLB and NBA. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 13:36:38 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by American Pig on Tue Dec 5 12:01:06 2006. This particular incident is only a symptom of the real problem. Watching the glee in which Staten Island legislators gave interviews to local media outlets last night, you'd think we didn't need the thousands of jobs and millions in tax revenues this project would have brought in to local and city coffers. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Dec 5 13:36:40 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 13:30:24 2006. Universal values: Everyone likes a pretty blonde. :0) |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 13:37:46 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 12:31:04 2006. Besides, LA has a virtual NFL franchise with USC. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Dec 5 13:38:13 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by JohnL on Tue Dec 5 12:47:14 2006. You can get samples of that in places like Chester County PA.Or just west of me in rural Kansas. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 13:39:41 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 5 12:12:43 2006. Sounds like YOU should educate yourself on the particulars of this subject, given that the basis for your snippy comment is thoroughly obsolete. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 13:41:00 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Dec 5 13:36:40 2006. Not me. I prefer brunettes. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Dec 5 13:44:20 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 11:39:55 2006. The fan sitting next to you at a race is more likely to be a banking executive or IT professional from a fancy suburb than some gas station attendant named Bubba from a hick town.I agree. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Tue Dec 5 13:47:57 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Dec 5 13:38:13 2006. Or anywhere in much of upstate. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by JohnL on Tue Dec 5 13:53:35 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Scrabbleship on Tue Dec 5 12:57:04 2006. …convinved that Bush would reinstate slavery.Give him credit: he’s trying and still has another two years left! But you are correct about there being insular people everywhere. Oh, and by the way, it’s West Virginia that has the dirt roads. They go to the mines… |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 5 13:55:25 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 5 12:43:45 2006. Howard Stern wouldn't have a show without 'em! Oh wait ... he DOESN'T have much of a show now anywayAin't it sometimes fascinating to see the creation of anachronisms . . . ? |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 13:56:10 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by JohnL on Tue Dec 5 13:53:35 2006. West Virginia is the most paved state in the Union. Thank Robert "KKK" Byrd and the oodles of roadbuilding pork he delivers every year. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 13:57:08 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by American Pig on Tue Dec 5 12:01:06 2006. Also, the lack of an NFL team is Los Angeles isn't really the city's fault. It's due more to the difficult behavior of two team owners, Al Davis and Georgia Frontiere, both of whom probably got F's in Works Well With Others on their elementary school report cards.My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Tue Dec 5 13:58:26 2006, in response to New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 10:31:26 2006. It's not so much a problem with new york, it's idiots in houses. They will protest the world on grounds of imaginary "traffic". You can't build a wal-mart, or eckard in a neighborhood because of "traffic".The largest school in the nation can't build a stadium because of "traffic". Lets ignore that your house was built across the street from it while the school was there. And that there's traffic daily, and that everyone LIVES in the area, where are they driving to and from? If anything the stadium downtown is creating the traffic because you're coming from and going to the area. Not already in it, or walking to it! Same with building apartments too. Etc etc. I got a million of them. I think it's the american homeowner, not specifically a prejudiced staten island thing. They're doing what they'd do anywhere. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 14:14:34 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by orange blossom special on Tue Dec 5 13:58:26 2006. It's not so much a problem with new york, it's idiots in houses. They will protest the world on grounds of imaginary "traffic". You can't build a wal-mart, or eckard in a neighborhood because of "traffic".I took a course in Urban Studies back when I was in college. The teacher was a nationally recognized authority in the field. One of the first things he told us was that whatever the stated purposes or goals of zoning rules, land-use restrictions and growth limitations may be, the only real goal was to enhance the value of single-family houses. Any other goals were just window dressing. He was totally right, of course. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 5 16:23:38 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 13:39:41 2006. Excuse me? I was referring to Peter's well-known predilection for attacking NYC because it doesn't have things they have in the South and West. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 5 16:25:10 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Dec 5 14:14:34 2006. How would YOU react if a NASCAR track were proposed, say, a half-mile from your house? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 16:29:48 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 5 16:23:38 2006. Yes, sound, growing economies and a business friendly atmosphere is something we northerners can do without. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 16:30:39 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 5 16:25:10 2006. I'd be thrilled. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 5 16:31:36 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 16:29:48 2006. Thats's not what Peter's been citing as proof of NY's doom.I don't see what a NASCAR track has to do with your comment. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 5 16:33:07 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 16:30:39 2006. To each his own. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 16:33:59 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 5 16:31:36 2006. An 80,000 seat NASCAR track? How many jobs will that create, both permanent and temporary construction? What kind of revenues would such a track generate for the state and city? Unless the answer is zero to all three, it has EVERYTHING to do with my comment. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 5 16:37:02 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 16:33:59 2006. Denying a NASCAR track doesn't prove NY is not business-friendly. We seem to have a lot of businessess in NYC, last I checked. It's the kind, and location, of the businees that was at issue here. There are other ways to create jobs and revenues. |
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Re: New York is doomed - more proof |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 5 16:39:58 2006, in response to Re: New York is doomed - more proof, posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 5 16:37:02 2006. If there are other ways outside DENYING businesses who want to build here, please let me know. |
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