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| Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus (218982) | |
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Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by JohnnyMints on Sat Jan 1 18:24:52 2011, in response to Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by OrionVIIdieselbus on Sat Jan 1 16:58:26 2011. "Conservatives and Mass Transit: Is it Time for a New Look?"Sounds good to me! 
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| (218985) | |
Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Jan 1 18:26:21 2011, in response to Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by OrionVIIdieselbus on Sat Jan 1 16:58:26 2011. He wants to get to the point as to why private mass transit systems went belly-up in the mid-20th century, but he missed it. It was because mass transit competes with the car. I would actually stop at public-private partnership. The fact of the matter is that the county insists on buying full-size vehicles for routes that need vans.In Europe, transit fleets often have a wide variety of vehicle sizes, with full size buses, midibuses, minibuses, and vans being used. That is the idea that should be applied in NYC; it could work very well in Staten Island, Nassau County, and even some routes in Brooklyn and Manhattan. If he means that the government should get out of actual operation, I'm sure common ground could be sought to move towards a public-private partnernership with parameters or contracting out operationss; I don't believe that full-blown privatization would work in the market today, however. |
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| (218987) | |
Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Jan 1 18:46:11 2011, in response to Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Jan 1 18:26:21 2011. LION is a Republican. No... make that a CONSERVATIVE of the highest order. Unfortunately, taxes are not going to go away. They are going to stay, and go up in the long run no matter what you do.It is a matter of deciding *what* you want to buy with your tax money. ROADS! Lets build more roads. Bigger Roads. Better Roads. Express lanes and faster service. And while we are at it we can burn more OIL, because drilling for oil in the USA is a good business proposition, at least for those who work in or near the oil fields. The 7734 with public transportation. That is for big cities, not a little county like Nassau. Besides we do not *want* any poor people moving here from New York City or Mexico City! If there is no transit then people who cannot afford cars will go away! I got my house, I got my car, and I don't need YOU! So we privatize the bus lines. We let them charge whatever they need to run the line. The get no customers. They go bankrupt and the awful buses go away! Or you can pay more taxes, install light rail on many routes, and try to get the fat pigs out of their cars. Damned if you do and damned if you don't! When LION lived in Merrick, and did not have a car, he could take a bus to the train station. There was even a bus to Roosevelt Field, but was that ever a roundabout circus if ever one there was! And just how many cars does the average family *have* in Nassau County. The MOST cars per capita are to be found right here in North Dakota. Driving age is 14. Insurance rates are Dirt Low. No salt on the highways to rust out the cars. No public transit what so ever (unless you count the CAT in Bismarck with its 1 bus per hour headway). No wait, what *is* the bus headway on Long Island. If it is not q15min there really is no point in it, now is there. 
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| (218995) | |
Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by R40slantontheB on Sat Jan 1 19:41:41 2011, in response to Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by OrionVIIdieselbus on Sat Jan 1 16:58:26 2011. Germino is buddies with Mangano, and failed to win that assembly seat for obvious reasons. He wants to see the MTA disbanded, I remember all the signs he put up. |
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| (219039) | |
Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Jan 2 03:48:34 2011, in response to Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Jan 1 18:46:11 2011. "The MOST cars per capita are to be found right here in North Dakota." AFAIK, that is excluding Puerto Rico, which comes in as the winner in the US. |
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| (219040) | |
Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sun Jan 2 09:05:42 2011, in response to Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Jan 1 18:26:21 2011. He wants to get to the point as to why private mass transit systems went belly-up in the mid-20th century, but he missed it. It was because mass transit competes with the car.Onerous fare regulation and draconian franchise requirements killed off many privately owned systems. For example trolley lines were required under the franchise agreements to clear their routes of snow. Why isn't the MTA required to clear all bus routes of snow? Today that cost is shifted to Sanitation departments in many cities. Government thought it had a cash cow when it came to transit systems and milked them through taxes, fare freezes and franchise requirements until the cow died! |
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| (219043) | |
Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by Gotham Bus Co. on Sun Jan 2 09:45:41 2011, in response to Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by BMTLines on Sun Jan 2 09:05:42 2011. [Why isn't the MTA required to clear all bus routes of snow? Today that cost is shifted to Sanitation departments in many cities.]The reason for that is easy: The MTA does not own or control the streets. Every municipality "owns" its streets, so plowing is properly part of the sanitation function. (Imagine the complaints from the Upper East Side that Fifth, Madison, Lexington, Third, Second, First, and York Avenues got plowed while Park and East End did not.) Remember that Rudy Giuliani moved cops out of the subways and onto the streets specifically because he, the mayor, controlled the streets and not the subways. |
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| (219045) | |
Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sun Jan 2 09:52:16 2011, in response to Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by Gotham Bus Co. on Sun Jan 2 09:45:41 2011. Trolley companies did not own the streets either yet that was one of the requirements. Just pointing out the UNFAIR franchise arrangements. |
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| (219048) | |
Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by JAzumah on Sun Jan 2 10:49:43 2011, in response to Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by BMTLines on Sun Jan 2 09:05:42 2011. I think this was one of the unspoken reasons why private transit is almost extinct. The government rarely allows these operations to go unbothered. If you have ever read through the FMCSR, a lot of it was written to protect interstate carriers from interference by local governments. Even today, Boston and New York are known for making things complicated for interstate carriers. |
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| (219052) | |
Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Jan 2 11:16:36 2011, in response to Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by Gotham Bus Co. on Sun Jan 2 09:45:41 2011. Someone should have pointed out that the city owns the subways, and the MTA should have threatened to park the trains in retaliation. |
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| (219064) | |
Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sun Jan 2 15:30:37 2011, in response to Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by BMTLines on Sun Jan 2 09:05:42 2011. Those are some of the problems that caused the failure of privately-operated transit systems. The problem grew worse when government took over the transit systems, and labor was no longer on the opposite side of the bargaining table. Since governments have been operating such systems, costs have gone up substantially more than inflation, and the wage rates that now exist in the "market" is now what governments are willing to pay, not what profitable companies can afford to pay their employees and still make a profit. Had the government not interfered with the "market" it would be possible to operate some transit systems at a profit by (1) not burdening them with unreasonable and punitive regulation, and (2) by the companies paying employees a competitive market wage--drivers earning somewhere around $10 to $15 an hour, a reasonable amount for what is essentially unskilled work.(Note: In most cases bus driving is unskilled work because the employer trains the employee, and there is no requirement to know how to do anything but to drive a motor vehicle. This does not mean that the driver does not have important safety responsibilities; it simply means than a high school drop-out with absolutely zero vocational training can successfully be a bus driver. It is unskilled labor.) |
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| (219067) | |
Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by JAzumah on Sun Jan 2 17:12:58 2011, in response to Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by BusMgr on Sun Jan 2 15:30:37 2011. Had the government not interfered with the "market" it would be possible to operate some transit systems at a profit by (1) not burdening them with unreasonable and punitive regulation, and (2) by the companies paying employees a competitive market wage--drivers earning somewhere around $10 to $15 an hour, a reasonable amount for what is essentially unskilled work.This is the range that most of the large contract operators pay. Academy is towards the bottom in pay, but I have heard multiple people say that their school is top notch. |
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| (219071) | |
Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by TheHat on Sun Jan 2 17:48:52 2011, in response to Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by JAzumah on Sun Jan 2 17:12:58 2011. As a former Academy B/O that is true. The pay is low, but the training is very, very good. |
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| (219098) | |
Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Mon Jan 3 00:20:24 2011, in response to Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by TheHat on Sun Jan 2 17:48:52 2011. At the MTA Broom sweepers make $25 an hour. If you include the generous benefits package are talking about paying broom sweepers close to $40 an hour.$10-$15 an hour is a bit low for bus drivers considering the work load MTA drivers have on there plate. A few extra dollars will keep the work force stable and save money in the long run $20-$25 an hour is more than generous(remember if you count the benefits which you should you are talking $35 to $40 an hour) but the real burden that causes the mta's bus operation to loose money is the criminal mob style work rules and very poor management. The mta could operate cash flow positive with less subsidies then it currently gets (bridge tolls, surcharges, dedicated taxes (if you want to refinance your load you hand over 2% to the mta)) Region bus consolidation in the 5 boroughs is long overdue. Simply moving the BM3 and BM4 to Ulmer park from spring creak would save close to a million dollars a year. Removing the clause that a driver can only pick up a bus at his or her home depot for overtime work would save millions a year as well. A very easy computer dispatch system would match all those willing to work the shift giving priority to those who are trained to operate buses at the nearest depot that has extra buses as most bustitution work is on weakens. Better repair operation with fare wages instead of what we got now. Lets not forget about all the waste such as station agents to sell fares when we need security for instance. Installing Elevators at the Brighton line station just 100% redone would reduce many costly AAR rides and provide better access for those who can not climb stairs In the end workers and riders would be better off. If you rent or own a home in NYS you are paying higher rent and taxes to cover the excess and poor management |
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| (219104) | |
Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by Mr RT on Mon Jan 3 08:38:09 2011, in response to Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by BusMgr on Sun Jan 2 15:30:37 2011. 1st, I see that others have made the point ... how does $10 to 15 per hour compare with Greyhound/CoachUSA, PeterPan, etc. ?2nd, operate at a profit vs. provide a public service. The latter is what bus service in NYC & elsewhere has evolved into. The alternate would be much higher fares & non-union staff, A-N-D much less "service". The MTA provides service on routes that are very unprofitable & at hours where there is little or no business. If this who's going to blink first business in Nassau County doesn't resolve itself soon it's what you are going to see, then everyone will be yelling & screaming about the horable "service". In this area the policy has been to offer sufficient service at a reasonable fare to encourage folks to use mass transit vs. their personal cars. Government can abandon that philosophy, but do we realy want gridlock just like LA & Chicago has now ? |
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| (219128) | |
Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus |
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Posted by busdude2 on Mon Jan 3 15:07:08 2011, in response to Re: Resident Calls for Privatization of MTA Long Island Bus, posted by JohnnyMints on Sat Jan 1 18:24:52 2011. Damn I miss riding them on Jersey City routes. |
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