New Cars for Certain Lines

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New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by rbseabeach on Fri Dec 11 12:28:51 2009 edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d My memory goes back to the mid 1970's. The N always received new trains; R-42, R-46, R-68 & R-160 The D (Brighton) received new trains R-44, R-68 The B (West End)_never received new cars The R never received new cars The A received R-44 The C never received new cars The E received R-46 and now R-160 The F received R-44, R-46 & R-160 The G never The J R-160 The L R-160 the M R-143 R-160 The Q R-160 The V never The W R-160 The Z R-160 The 1 R-62 The 2 R-142 The 3 R-62 The 4 R-62 R-142 The 5 R-142 The 6 R-62 R-160 The 7 NEVER The B (West End) R, C, G, 7 & possibly the A have never had brand new cars begin service on those lines. I do not recall if any original R-44's were assigned to the A. I do remember them on the F & D. is this information correct? Anyone have any ideas why certain lines never received new cars?
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by 9 local* on Fri Dec 11 12:42:20 2009, in response to New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by rbseabeach on Fri Dec 11 12:28:51 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d 7 R33/36WF and I'm sure there are more.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by rbseabeach* on Fri Dec 11 12:48:38 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by 9 local on Fri Dec 11 12:42:20 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Yes! thank you. I was too young to remember that. By the time I rode them with the cool light blue color they were bombed by vandals.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by randyo* on Fri Dec 11 13:36:23 2009, in response to New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by rbseabeach on Fri Dec 11 12:28:51 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Actually, the 7 was the first IRT line to receive new cars in 1948 with the arrival of the R-12s which began the use of numbers for IRT routes. The R-14 and 15 orders made the Flushing Line the first IRT line to be totally equipped with post war cars. As was mentioned in another post, the 7 also received new cars with the R-33s and R-36s in 1963 and 64. The A Line was the first IND line to receive new cars with the delivery of the R-10s also in 1948 and in 1969 a dedicated group of R-42s was assigned to the A followed by another group of R-44s which were split up among the A, D, E, and F lines when delivered. The R (then RR) and B also received dedicated groups of R-42s when they were new in 1969 since the R-42s were grouped by signage for various lines. Back in the late 1950s to early 1960s, all the BMT Southern Division lines received new R-27s and 30s although the first of the lines to be fully equipped with them were the Brighton and 4 Av locals. In 1964 with the arrival of the R-32s the rest of the Southern Division Lines which included the West End, which later became the B and is now the D.
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(870785)	view threaded
Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Chris R16/R2730* on Fri Dec 11 13:51:56 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by randyo on Fri Dec 11 13:36:23 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Don't forget the R16's on the J line, but in hindsight that may not have been such a good thing ....
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by randyo* on Fri Dec 11 14:02:42 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Dec 11 13:51:56 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d You sort of had the J line covered with the R-160s so I decided to let that one alone. In 1969 almost all lines got a certain allotment of R-42s to give each line a certain number of air conditioned trains. The reason the CC (C) did not get any was that at the time it was a rush hour only line and although the D line's R-42s had CC signs AFAIK, no R-42s ever ran there. The same is true for the KK Although an occasional R-42 did show up there.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Chris R16/R2730* on Fri Dec 11 14:07:53 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by randyo on Fri Dec 11 14:02:42 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The reason the CC (C) did not get any was that at the time it was a rush hour only line and although the D line's R-42s had CC signs AFAIK, no R-42s ever ran there. I think it's safe to say that in this era, everything that could run somewhere did run there, at least at some time. 1969.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by randyo* on Fri Dec 11 14:11:10 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Dec 11 14:07:53 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Thanks for the pic. Even though I didn't have first hand knowledge of the R-42 running on the CC I figured one or two trains of them would probably have shown up there.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Chris R16/R2730* on Fri Dec 11 14:45:44 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by randyo on Fri Dec 11 14:11:10 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I just assume that some cars ran everywhere possible and that even unusual combinations were used in single trains. Who knew R10's and R42's ever ran together? What you looking at, chump?
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Fri Dec 11 16:26:06 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Dec 11 14:45:44 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Even better was when they'd throw a pair of 42's in, a couple of pairs of artens and then stick 30's on either end. Now THAT was a rodeo! :)
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Catfish 44* on Fri Dec 11 17:12:39 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by randyo on Fri Dec 11 14:11:10 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Doesn't this also have to do somewhat with the policy of running the oldest trains on the longer lines?
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by randyo* on Fri Dec 11 17:24:53 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Dec 11 17:12:39 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I never heard of such a policy especially since the R-44s were initially assigned to the longest lines like the A, D, E, and F at the time when rush hour E service ran from Jamaica to Rockaway Pk and the R-160s which are our newest cars are on the F and N both of which are long lines. Back in the 1950s when the R-21s and 22s were new they were assigned to the #1 which at the time ran between V/C and N/Lots (later on the south terminal for the Bway Exp was changed to Flatbush). Also, the A was the longest line on the IND in 1948 when the R-10s were new and that line got the newest cars.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by rbseabeach* on Fri Dec 11 17:51:06 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by randyo on Fri Dec 11 13:36:23 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d thank you for the kind info
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Osmosis Jones* on Fri Dec 11 17:55:06 2009, in response to New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by rbseabeach on Fri Dec 11 12:28:51 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Damn even in the 1950s (G) riders got the short end of the stick, I feel for my (G) train riding ancestors.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by NJCL2308* on Fri Dec 11 18:33:31 2009, in response to New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by rbseabeach on Fri Dec 11 12:28:51 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d R160 on the (6)?
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by rbseabeach* on Fri Dec 11 18:51:46 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by NJCL2308 on Fri Dec 11 18:33:31 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Sorry it was a mistake, I ment R-142/A
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by R30A* on Fri Dec 11 23:43:41 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Dec 11 16:26:06 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I have seen some pretty interesting trains in CIYD before R68-R40-R40-R32-R32-R62A-R62A-R62A-R62A-R62A-R33WF-R22 was probably the best I ever saw.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40* on Fri Dec 11 23:53:25 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by NJCL2308 on Fri Dec 11 18:33:31 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The "B" most certainly did sport new R-42s in 1969, those in the 4600 series were assigned there, and ran on the "A" and "AA" as well. -wayne-
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave* on Sat Dec 12 00:54:16 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by NJCL2308 on Fri Dec 11 18:33:31 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Perhaps the MTA has finally decided on a Bronx route for the Second Avenue Subway, lol.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by fisk ave jim* on Sat Dec 12 02:32:59 2009, in response to New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by rbseabeach on Fri Dec 11 12:28:51 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Just a thought, the R62a's on the #7 represent a fleet of second hand equiptment. The Flushing line, traditionally always had new equiptment from the worlds fair cars of 1939 to the r12-14's to the 33-36's. Question; when was a major line ever outfitted with second hand equiptment?
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Catfish 44* on Sat Dec 12 02:33:13 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by randyo on Fri Dec 11 17:24:53 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Ok. Eventually the A would need new cars like in '48 and '71 but generally it ran the oldest stuff no?
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by murray1575* on Sat Dec 12 07:33:19 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by fisk ave jim on Sat Dec 12 02:32:59 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The 7 (although of course it wasn't called the 7 then) ran some standard (non-Steinway) Lo-V cars which were borrowed due to increased service demands. However they were coupled in consists which did not contain trailers as was standard IRT practice on the other lines. What I would consider second hand would be equipment which had run on other transit systems and the only cars which fall into that category are the former SIRT cars which were purchased by the TA in the 1950's after SIRT discontinued some of its service. Those cars served until about 1960 when new R-27 cars replaced all the non-standard BMT cars and some of the older Standards.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Sat Dec 12 11:43:42 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Dec 11 17:55:06 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d LION has news for you. THERE WAS NO (G) Train in the 1950s. Through all of the 1960s all of the Queensboro lines ran arnines. The only non-arnines were compliments of the BMT. R38s were the first new train to run on the (F) and were seen there in the mid-late 60s. LION graduated from HS in '66 and saw them there before he entered the Navy in Dec '66. ROAR
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by lrg5784* on Sat Dec 12 11:47:47 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Dec 12 11:43:42 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Wait, didn't the Arnines run on some of the BMT lines near their retirement?
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Sat Dec 12 12:19:21 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by lrg5784 on Sat Dec 12 11:47:47 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Yes. But throughout the 1960s they were no where near their retirements. ROAR
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Fred G* on Sat Dec 12 12:26:36 2009, in response to New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by rbseabeach on Fri Dec 11 12:28:51 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d R-40 slants on the E and F in 1968 no? courtesy nycsubway.org mitout all the orthodontal stuff. your pal, Fred
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Sat Dec 12 13:05:26 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Fred G on Sat Dec 12 12:26:36 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d LION thinks they were in service late in '66. Least he thinks he saw them before he entered the Navy. Maybe knot. ROAR
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP* on Sat Dec 12 13:14:23 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Fri Dec 11 23:53:25 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d When they weren't intermixed with other SMEEs.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Fred G* on Sat Dec 12 13:24:16 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Dec 12 13:05:26 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I think knot :D your pal, Fred
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by fisk ave jim* on Sat Dec 12 15:21:10 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by murray1575 on Sat Dec 12 07:33:19 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Growing up along the flushing line, I remember always seeing new equiptment running when it was time for modernization sorta speak. My thoughts about "second hand" equiptment refers to an entire fleet replaced by equiptment (62a's) that ran elsewhere. IFRC, that never happened to any other line in the system , in terms of an entire fleet that is,& certanly never happened before on the 7,
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Far Rockaway A Train* on Sat Dec 12 15:23:52 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by 9 local on Fri Dec 11 12:42:20 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Yes, there were others such as the Low-Vs, R12s, R14s, R15s. In fact, the R62As were the only second hand cars placed in service on a permanent basis on the 7.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Osmosis Jones* on Sat Dec 12 15:24:14 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Dec 12 11:43:42 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d LION has news for you. THERE WAS NO (G) Train in the 1950s. (G), (GG), same difference.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Far Rockaway A Train* on Sat Dec 12 16:02:28 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by randyo on Fri Dec 11 13:36:23 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Hello. The A was not just the first IND train to get R10s, it was the first IND train period. So, of course it received the first IND cars-the R1s thru R9s.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Far Rockaway A Train* on Sat Dec 12 16:09:23 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Dec 11 17:55:06 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The GG received R46s when new.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by fisk ave jim* on Sat Dec 12 16:13:00 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Dec 12 11:43:42 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I remember as a kid waitin for the GG local at 65th st sta & seeing a new set of r27's on the RR that reciently bumped the standards off that line & the glare of the flourescent lights amongst the dim incandecent platform lights & arnines that ruled that territory at the time was indeed a shock to the optic nerve.Could never figure out why the r27's did'nt "growl" when accelerating like the arnines did. As a kid I asked that question & nobody knew.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Far Rockaway A Train* on Sat Dec 12 16:43:30 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by fisk ave jim on Sat Dec 12 15:21:10 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d That happens all the time. For example in 1977 the A train had its entire fleet of R10s replaced by R40 Slants and a handful of R44s-both from the E & F trains. During the same year the CC had its entire fleet of R32s replaced by R40s from the E & F trains. Then a month later the R40s were completely swapped with the R10s from the A train.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Sat Dec 12 19:05:00 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Dec 12 13:05:26 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d frayed knot?
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Union Turnpike* on Sat Dec 12 20:15:14 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Dec 12 11:43:42 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d IIRC, the (GG) had at least some R40s in 1970. The accident involving a disabled (GG) at Roosevelt Avenue that year was a (GG) with R40s.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Fred G* on Sat Dec 12 20:18:18 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Dec 12 19:05:00 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Haha, not even a granny. your pal, Fred
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by murray1575* on Sat Dec 12 20:38:25 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Dec 12 13:05:26 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No the R38's which did make their debut in Queens were delivered in 1966. They certainly looked a bit out of place on lines which had been running Arnines excusively since they were built in the 1930's. The R40's followed a year or two later. I never liked them especially the Slants with all the ugly hardware that got added on.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by randyo* on Sun Dec 13 16:13:41 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat Dec 12 15:23:52 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d FYI, the Lo-Vs used on the Flushing Line were specifically Steinway types which were Lo-Vs with a special gearing that the IRT felt was needed for the steep grades in the Steinway tunnels.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by randyo* on Sun Dec 13 16:15:15 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Dec 12 02:33:13 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Not until the mid 1980s when R-38s and 40s started to show up there. However, the R-44s that were assigned there were brand new from square 1.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by randyo* on Sun Dec 13 16:18:24 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat Dec 12 16:02:28 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Another good point.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by randyo* on Sun Dec 13 16:40:42 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Union Turnpike on Sat Dec 12 20:15:14 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d They were R-40Ms not slants. The R-40Ms and the lowest numbered R-42s had the same sign grouping which contained signs for the EE, GG, and N although the R-40Ms also had signs for the E and F as well while the R-42s from that group lacked the signs for the E and F.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by randyo* on Sun Dec 13 16:42:28 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat Dec 12 16:09:23 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I worked as the T/D at Church Ave when the R-46s were delivered in 1976 and I never saw an R-46 on the GG in all the time that rush hours GGs terminated there.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by randyo* on Sun Dec 13 16:44:01 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Dec 12 13:14:23 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d In the very beginning they weren't mixed on the B But I did see mixed R-32 and 42 trains on the D. I even OK'd one of them in CCYd.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP* on Sun Dec 13 20:07:43 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by lrg5784 on Sat Dec 12 11:47:47 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The high number R-7s and all of the R-9s spent their twilight years on the Three Stooges Division.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP* on Sun Dec 13 20:10:59 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by fisk ave jim on Sat Dec 12 16:13:00 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Postwar cars had helical-cut bull and pinion gears (whose teeh are cut diagonally) that are much quieter than spur-cut gears (whose teeth are cut straight across), which the prewar cars had. The musical moaning and groaning is caused by the spur-cut teeth meshing. If you own a car with a stickshift, the reason reverse gear moans while the forward geras do not is because reverse gear has spur-cut gears while the forward speeds have helical-cut gears.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Wallyhorse* on Sun Dec 13 23:18:56 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Dec 12 13:05:26 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Slants I believe first came on in March 1968.
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Re: New Cars for Certain Lines
Posted by Catfish 44* on Sun Dec 13 23:30:22 2009, in response to Re: New Cars for Certain Lines, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Dec 13 23:18:56 2009.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I thought it was January '68. First cars delivered in Nov. 1967?
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