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| (765975) | |
Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 3 09:54:27 2009 The TA perpetrated an April Fools Joke. The joke was that 11 car trains are a viable solution to overcrowding on the F train.It is true that they used to run 11-car trains on both the E and F during the 1950's. However, the TA precluded continuing such operation by converting the extra 60 feet of platform space into broom closets and other operational necessities. Also, the contractual obligation to use two conductors makes such operation very expensive. With some fanfare, the TA staged this great back to the far future experiment to show that they are working on F-train overcrowding. Of course, it will take a lot of time and tons of money to implement. The F train riders, who now are squeezed into an average of 4.07 sq. feet, will just have to wait for the far off nirvana to be able to exhale while riding. The same riders could also wait for TA's CBTC panacea like the L train riders, who are now squeezed into 3.28 sq ft. I assume the L train riders are less well fed than their Queens neighbors to require 20% less space and not require a long range solution. What the TA did not say was that they also ran 34 tph on the Queens Blvd line during the 1950's instead of today's 30 tph. That also adds the desired 10% increase in service. It can be implemented immediately by simply not dumping some existing "surplus" cars to Davey Jones Locker. Such easy, low cost solutions are not in the MTA's April Fool's play book. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Apr 3 09:57:12 2009, in response to Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 3 09:54:27 2009. The TA perpetrated an April Fools Joke. The joke was that 11 car trains are a viable solution to overcrowding on the F train. It is true that they used to run 11-car trains on both the E and F during the 1950's. However, the TA precluded continuing such operation by converting the extra 60 feet of platform space into broom closets and other operational necessities. Also, the contractual obligation to use two conductors makes such operation very expensive. With some fanfare, the TA staged this great back to the far future experiment to show that they are working on F-train overcrowding. Of course, it will take a lot of time and tons of money to implement. Um, no. They were very upfront about it not being possible right now. "We obviously neither have the capital nor operating funding to implement anything like this in the foreseeable future," NYC Transit President Howard Roberts said. Take Pride,
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 3 10:07:04 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Apr 3 09:57:12 2009. They were very upfront about it not being possible right now.The joke was that 11-car trains were the only possible solution and the public fell for it. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Apr 3 10:25:25 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 3 10:07:04 2009. The real answer is the MTA is will avoid stepping up and backing a solution that involves serious input and determination. They are wussies!avid |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Roosevelt Island 360 on Fri Apr 3 10:46:17 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 3 10:07:04 2009. When you say the pubic fell for it what do you mean? Of course the public seeing an extra car added to existing trians would see that as a service increase in some form.If you mean the public saw this obvious PR event to look like the MTA is trying to do something then yes we fell for it. My follow up question is moot considering 11 cars will obviously not be happening but I ask anyway. On the F line now how many of the stations can platform 11 car trains? Can Roosevelt Island? It appears from a post in this thread (the first I think) that for several stations 11 car trains can no longer platform due to station modifications. Roosevelt Island 360 Blog - Can 11 Subway Cars Platform at RI |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Mr. Eric on Fri Apr 3 11:20:07 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Roosevelt Island 360 on Fri Apr 3 10:46:17 2009. All it takes is for 1 station to not be able to handle 11 cars for them not to be able to run. This experiment ran for 1 night and was considered a failure by the management and supervision involved.Remember the train must also be able to be handled on other lines for the situation when a train has to be rerouted which happens almost every day. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Apr 3 12:52:13 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 3 10:07:04 2009. They neither said that, nor did the public fall for it. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Apr 3 13:54:50 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Mr. Eric on Fri Apr 3 11:20:07 2009. As to reroute options, were not the other "original" IND stations of the current E (RR S of the Archer branch) long enough so that for example a diverted F could use 53rd to 8th to WTC to the Cranberry Tunnel to Jay is 6th Ave were hors de combat? Was the (M)TA dumb enough to build the63rd St stations short? |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by VictorM on Fri Apr 3 16:36:10 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Apr 3 13:54:50 2009. The 63 St and Archer Av stations are only about 615 to 630 feet long, so they would require expensive modifications to accomodate 11 car (660 foot) trains. When they were designed in the 1970's subway ridership was declining, so they probably figured 10 car trains would be adequate. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Apr 3 16:49:47 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by VictorM on Fri Apr 3 16:36:10 2009. The words "penny-pinching" and "morons" spring to mind... |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Apr 4 04:12:29 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Roosevelt Island 360 on Fri Apr 3 10:46:17 2009. AFAIK, any IND stations that could accomodate 11 car trains can still do so. I have not seen any 11 car stations that have been shortened from 660 ft to 600 ft. I have seen a pre unification IND rule book which contains a list of all the IND stations that are shorter than 660 ft but I don't recall which ones they were. The problem, however that was mentioned in several posts is that the newer construction on the IND including the stations S/O Bway/ENY only provided for 10 car trains even though the E line did run 11 car trains to Euclid with the last car unopened S/O ENY. The stations on the Culver and Fulton Line to Lefferts were only extended to accomodate 10 cars so operation of 11 car trains on the F would be impossible at the present time. If, however, the door control circuits were modified so that either of the end cars could be left closed at selected stations while the rest of the train is opened similar to what is done on the PATH, then 11 car operation might become feasible. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by MJF on Sat Apr 4 07:23:39 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 4 04:12:29 2009. It may not be as easy as you say. Some alterations to the stations might have to be made. For example, at Continental Avenue, the tower on the n/b platform has been extended to its present location. Where the 11 car train would have to platform on D2 or D4 is now obstructed by the tower, leaving a narrow path for passengers to navigate.I wonder how many other stations have had rooms built or other obstructions such as this? |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Apr 4 08:52:07 2009, in response to Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 3 09:54:27 2009. It is true that they used to run 11-car trains on both the E and F during the 1950's. However, the TA precluded continuing such operation by converting the extra 60 feet of platform space into broom closets and other operational necessities. Also, the contractual obligation to use two conductors makes such operation very expensive.My understanding is that the second conductor would open the 11th car but not at all the stations as some were not long enough to fully platform an 11 car train. Does this sound right? It would be interesting to know which platforms on the "E" and "F" routes back then could not hold an 11 car train. Larry, Redbirdr33 |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 4 10:08:35 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Apr 4 08:52:07 2009. My understanding is that the second conductor would open the 11th car but not at all the stations as some were not long enough to fully platform an 11 car train. Does this sound right? It would be interesting to know which platforms on the "E" and "F" routes back then could not hold an 11 car train.All the regular stations could handle 11 car trains. It's the reason that the transfer of the Culver Line to the IND resulted in running the D on the Culver and terminating the F in Manhattan. The F had run to Church Ave prior to the Culver transfer. There's some question regarding the lengths of the platforms between Bway-ENY and Euclid. The E was not extended beyond Bway-ENY until the Rockaway Line opened in 1956. That date is close to when 11 car trains were abandoned. So, whether or not the 11th car did not open is still questionable. The only exception that someone has brought up is Woodhaven Blv, which would have been used had express service been diverted to the local. OTOH, the IRT did not get full length 10 car platforms until well after WWII. They had expresses opening 8, 9 and 10 cars with the 2nd conductor. They also had only half the local train platform on the uptown side of the Lex until at least 1958. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Apr 4 10:41:36 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 4 04:12:29 2009. If, however, the door control circuits were modified so that either of the end cars could be left closed at selected stations while the rest of the train is opened similar to what is done on the PATH, then 11 car operation might become feasible.I think that the R46s can do that. I once rode a (R) train at around 11PM from Union Square that had its front car's lights and doors off meaning that there were only 7 open cars in the train. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Apr 4 12:18:17 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Apr 4 10:41:36 2009. What PATH station cannot platform a 7 car train? |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by David on Sat Apr 4 12:29:42 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Apr 4 10:41:36 2009. That's a somewhat different situation. A car can be cut out, but that means the doors won't open until the car is cut back in. That would require someone to be present in the cab to do that repeatedly during a trip in which it is desired to have the doors open in the first/last car sometimes but not all the time. That's essentially what happened when 11-car trains were operated in the 1950s; a "Rear Guard" was employed to open (or not) the 11th car. Randy's suggesting that the door control circuits be modified so that the doors in the first/last car don't open at selected stations but do open at others.David |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Apr 4 13:50:08 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Apr 4 12:18:17 2009. 28th Street. (-8 |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Apr 4 13:56:59 2009, in response to Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 3 09:54:27 2009. The same riders could also wait for TA's CBTC panacea like the L train riders, who are now squeezed into 3.28 sq ft. I assume the L train riders are less well fed than their Queens neighbors to require 20% less space and not require a long range solution.9 (60') car trains on the Canarsie Line always seemed to me to be an overlooked solution for overcrowding problems. That and adjusting the running time to reflect actual figures so that the AM peak conga line can be retired. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by JPC on Sat Apr 4 14:51:13 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Mr. Eric on Fri Apr 3 11:20:07 2009. What needs to be done in that case is to modify trains so that the C/R has control over which doors to open, and to make very clear announcements - preferably starting well in advance - saying which doors do not open at which stations.This is done regularly on commuter lines such as NJT and LIRR - some platforms at lesser-used stations are significantly shorter than the trains that run. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by JPC on Sat Apr 4 14:56:49 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by JPC on Sat Apr 4 14:51:13 2009. Or another possibility...Wire up an 11-car train so that the front 2 doors (of 4) on the first car, and the last 2 doors (of 4) on the last car do not open (or only open at stations which are certified to be able to berth a full 11-car train. That way, no cars are "cut off" - you'd just have to move to the front or rear half of the car, if you were in one of the end cars - and this would be clear, because those end doors wouldn't open at many other stations either. Plus it gives an "express" feel to the ends of the end cars since you wouldn't have people getting on and off at every stop. What would need to be done in that case is that the T/O stop marker and the zebra (and C/R cameras, if present) would have to be moved ~30 feet. In a few cases, block boundaries might have to shift, if they are located right at the edge of a station. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by JPC on Sat Apr 4 15:54:10 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by David on Sat Apr 4 12:29:42 2009. This is no problem at all. In fact this is a problem that no half-decent electrical engineering undergrad should have a problem with._Basic statement of the engineering problem_ I haven't seen specifications (and I imagine they vary from one car type to another), but the system must operate in a manner similar to this: Each door has a motor (or set of motors) which control that door (and only that door). These motors draw a fair amount of power, which means they probably draw power from the third rail (via shoes on that particular car; this power is mostly used to drive the traction system, but also powers A/C, heat, lights, and the doors, among other things). These motors are "dumb" - they need to be told what to do (i.e. driven with an appropriate level of current). At each door, therefore, there is a "controller circuit," which accepts input from one of several sources, and has as its output the drive current for the motor (presumably using a transistor-based amplifier in the final stage). This circuitry also controls the detailed operation of the motor - for example, stopping the motor when an object blocks the door, making repeat attempts at closing when the door is blocked from closing completely, etc. The only additional input needed is one which "initiates" the door opening or closing, and can come from one of several places: (a) a key inserted into the keyhole adjacent to the door (which opens/closes only that one door), or (b) remotely via a signal cable coming from the C/R's position, which can control whichever doors' controller circuits are connected to that system and accept the signal sent over that cable. There is a bundle of wires emanating from the C/R's position. These wires control the settings of the traction motors, A/C, heat, lighting, and door opening/closing, among other things. (There are also cables carrying back notification signals - such as the "all doors closed" signal - but these are independent.) The wires carrying the door signals must use some system to encode the C/R's instructions. The simplest example would be a switchboard-telephone-style system. The controller circuit reads the voltage between two wires: if the voltage is zero (or some other nominal value), nothing happens and no output is sent; if the voltage is "high" this is the signal to initiate door opening, and if "low" this is the signal to initiate door closing. Of course they could use some more complex system, but that doesn't change the basic idea. All you have to do is modify the controller circuits on each of the "special" doors so that they will not respond to the "usual" C/R/ open and close signals (i.e. by requiring different voltage levels to initiate opening and closing, or using an AC signal instead of a DC voltage level). Then, put a new button in the C/R's cab which sends a different signal, one which the new doors *do* respond to. That way those "special" doors only open when the new button is pressed; if the old button is pressed only the "non-special" doors open because the decoder circuits for the "special" doors do not respond to the signal sent by pressing that button. Keep in mind that when I refer to these "decoder circuits," what I'm actually talking about is likely a small PC board with some basic components (resistors, capacitors, transistors) soldered on. These are items which, if made in bulk, should cost *at*absolute*most* a few dollars each. Then the new controllers would have to be installed, presumably through an access panel located adjacent to each door. Depending on the current circuitry, it might be as simple as "plugging" in a new PC board, or severing a wire or soldering a new wire onto the existing board. Alternately, one can wire up a "second" signal system connected to that same "new" button in the C/R's cab, and connect the "special" doors to the "second" signal system (while the "non-special" doors connect to the regular signal system). This, however, requires running new wiring through the entire train, which would not be necessary for the first option. This is a simple engineering problem. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by MGL on Sat Apr 4 16:48:27 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Apr 4 08:52:07 2009. Your question could, and should develop into and enlightening discussion of what the standard procedures were on the original IND.I was not there on the original IND, but I do possess a 1932 IND rule book. The rule book calls for a 3 man crew on a 10 car train. 1 Motorman, his duties are obvious. 1 Conductor in charge of the train, who would position himself between the 1st and second car and have control of the doors of the first car Independent of his control of the doors in the 2nd, third, fourth, and fifth cars. 1 Conductor, Assistant Conductor, or Trainman, who would position himself between the 9th and 10th car and have control of the doors in the 10th car independent of his control of the doors in the 9th, 8th, 7th, and 6th cars. My understanding and experience with door control drum switches, it is indeed possible to establish two separate door operating positions on a train. Each with two separate operating zones. Michael |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Apr 5 10:29:29 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Apr 4 13:56:59 2009. This brings to mind, "Can all stations on the Canarsie Line platform a nine car (60ft each car) 540ft train set.If so, then a four car set and a five car set should be combined and run for several time slots to ease the over crowding. avid |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Sun Apr 5 10:31:06 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Apr 3 09:57:12 2009. Well, they cannot run an 11 car train past Church avenue. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 5 10:39:38 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Apr 5 10:29:29 2009. All BMT platforms were originally built to accommodate eight-car trains of BMT standards, which themselves were 536 feet long. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 5 10:40:50 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Apr 5 10:29:29 2009. Can all stations on the Canarsie Line platform a nine car (60ft each car) 540ft train setI am not sure. Like their ex-IND counterparts, the ex-BMT platforms has been artificially shortened in many places. The important part of the territory to cover would be between 8 Av and Myrtle-Wyckoff Avs. Still if you look at bang for the buck potential, it seems to me an obvious solution for the kind of crowding problem that they have on the Canarsie Line. It couldn't be more expensive than CBTC, after all, to work on restoration of 540' platforms, if necessary. If so, then a four car set and a five car set should be combined and run for several time slots to ease the over crowding. As to the actual mechanics of it, I'm not qualified to speak on whether that's feasible, although I imagine that if an 11 car train is feasible, then that's reason to think that so too is a 9 car train. If it's really a huge problem, and it wouldn't foul any interlockings, I suppose that even in the case that a 9 car train were not feasible, just run a 10 car train, and close the rearmost car off on each trip. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Apr 5 10:49:29 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 3 10:07:04 2009. So, I ask the question(s)" Just how much of the stations tested were not possible to platform?Which stations were deficient and by how much? Could of should "F" trains of 11 cars begin and terminate at Church Ave? That would eliminate the "short" Culver elevated platforms until they are extended. How much and where have IND platforms been encroached upon? Can those rooms be recovered for platform use? We know trash rooms were built, can they be moved to locations underneath stairway to mezzanines? After an examination of platform length, what is the current maximum usable length? This would be determined by the station with the least usable platform length. avid avid |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Apr 5 10:58:42 2009, in response to Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 3 09:54:27 2009. Now to stir the pot!If the usable platform length is less then 660 ft but more then 600 ft. can a train set of mixed length cars be used to take advantage of all of the platform available. A set of nine 60 ft cars plus one 67 ft R110A car to equal 607 ft. A set of eight 60 ft cars plus two 67 ft cars to equal 614 ft. It gets better when 60 ft. and 75 ft cars are combined. The train set can be expanded in 15 ft increments. 600 ft. , 615, 630, 645 ft. Think out side of the box! avid |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Apr 5 11:03:04 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 5 10:39:38 2009. Could the doors of the lead and trailing cars platform?The cabs sticking into the tunnels? avid |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by metropod on Sun Apr 5 11:44:11 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Apr 5 10:58:42 2009. that would still require a third man. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Ken S. on Sun Apr 5 11:52:39 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Sun Apr 5 10:31:06 2009. Pluw the TA is too cheap to put Rear Brakes on those trains if that's what the union would require to run an 11-car train on the B Division. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 5 14:01:02 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Ken S. on Sun Apr 5 11:52:39 2009. please remember other system run 720' OPTO. The TA does NOT need a third crew person on a 660' train. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Ken S. on Sun Apr 5 14:06:57 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 5 14:01:02 2009. Don't give NJT any ideas. We've all seen what happened when they ran a 12-car train with only two crew (not counting the engineer) and something happened. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Sun Apr 5 14:24:09 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Apr 5 10:49:29 2009. Trash rooms could be replaced by garbage can with built in compactors if need be to free up the space where current trash rooms are |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sun Apr 5 14:26:28 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by brightonr68 on Sun Apr 5 14:24:09 2009. How do the workers dispose of it because of the heavy weight? |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 5 14:48:04 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sun Apr 5 14:26:28 2009. in this technological century, some solution like wheels could be applied. Another reason for full ADA at as many stations as possible is moving ANY trash, repair materials, new TVMs, etc on wheels and lifts rather than stairs. "stealing' revenue passenger space for garbage is too symbolic. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Sun Apr 5 14:53:22 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sun Apr 5 14:26:28 2009. A lift built on the side of the trash train could pick up the cans contents. There are solutions out there that can be tried out. May work out may not. Up until now the current setup has worked but is very labor intensive(ie costly) |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by irt1958 on Sun Apr 5 15:28:45 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Apr 3 16:49:47 2009. When you think about the many hundreds of billions of dollars, that were wasted, and in many cases found their way into the pockets of tyrants and corrupt businessmen, here and abroad, it's enough to make you puke. The bulk of this money is created from the efforts of ordinary citizens. It (the economy) just isn't being managed morally.The real pity is there's enough money to hire more workers, to run 11 car trains, on all of the lines, if there was the real will to do so. The movers, shakers and controllers of our civilization aren't interested in improving mass transit to any large extent. To them greed and selfishness rules, morality drools. (and it's getting worse by the year). |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Sun Apr 5 15:33:08 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by JPC on Sat Apr 4 14:56:49 2009. I was thinking about the same thing but,This could not be handle on the current fixed block system but maybe CBTC can handle this. As per OPTO the cameras could would transmit the video wirelessly so that it really does not matter where the train operator is |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 5 15:36:17 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by irt1958 on Sun Apr 5 15:28:45 2009. no question the inmates are running the asylum (mostly always have) That said, the third man is simply not needed. Far better to put them to work putting solar PV and DHW on most roofs, and wind turbines flanking the mainline RRs particularly across windy places like Wyoming where there is enough energy to move ALL of UP's freight. My hot water heater has been down to pilot since early March and if last summer is any indication will be there until sometime in October. Gives me hot water for long showers and the dish machine. This summer, the PV rig will go on line. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sun Apr 5 15:39:50 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by JPC on Sat Apr 4 14:51:13 2009. The big difference is that on commuter trains people are allowed to walk from one car to the next |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by MGL on Sun Apr 5 16:21:28 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 5 14:01:02 2009. Just out of curiosity, what system runs 720' one person train crew.Michael |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 5 16:49:00 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by MGL on Sun Apr 5 16:21:28 2009. BART 10 cars A's are 75' B/C's are 70 according to 'nycsubway' so A 8 B/C's A = 710. my error. Even though I live in BART territory I think of the cars as nearly identical. Bottom line BART has been OPTO/ATO from day one--11 Sept 1972. There have been glitches, but the worst I know of was a T/O spaced out and kept his head out the cab window too long looking back along the train. He hit his head on a wayside signal IIRC--some blood some stiches. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 5 16:50:47 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by BMTLines on Sun Apr 5 15:39:50 2009. yeah dumb MTA needs to back off on that one. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Apr 5 16:52:38 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by BMTLines on Sun Apr 5 15:39:50 2009. There is an easy fix to that difference... Requires 2 minutes at an MTA board meeting... |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 5 19:44:36 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 5 16:49:00 2009. Owwwwww-wwwww-w-w-w!!! |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 5 20:17:23 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 5 16:49:00 2009. He was lucky. An A train conductor died that way. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 5 21:40:08 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Apr 5 11:03:04 2009. On the BMT standards, the end doors were set back from the ends a good distance. You could have both ends of an eight-car train a few feet into the tunnel and the doors would still platform. |
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Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun Apr 5 22:33:56 2009, in response to Re: Real 11-car Train April Fools Joke, posted by MGL on Sun Apr 5 16:21:28 2009. Suburban trains in Paris at 24 tph (maybe more by now) on two tracked lines. Probably in London too. |
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