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| (638018) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jun 22 16:11:06 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Jun 22 15:37:13 2008. I have some up in my room, maybe it was larger, I don't remember. But you could not use a dime.With the later tokens you could use knockouts from electrical boxes and they worked just fine. The fare may have been a dollar back then, but you could buy a box with 21 knockouts for that price, just file off the torn edge. Of course, even as I knew how to do it, *I* *NEVER* did it. After all, I *am* an honest LION. ROAR |
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| (638022) | |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Jun 22 16:19:38 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jun 22 16:11:06 2008. Electrical knockouts? You mean like those boxes with pre-punched holes outlined in them? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jun 22 16:28:22 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Jun 22 16:19:38 2008. Sure. Those be the things. The standard 1/2" KO (sized for 1/2" EMT the KO is of course bigger than that) worked perfectly.The company that sold the tokens to the MTA assured them that no other entity in the US was using that size token. D'oh! I wonder *why*! Little more research on the part of somebody would have turned up that flaw. Worse for the Station Clerks were the Glass Tokens that would break after being used. Those were devised after the Police invented a way to let the token drop into a receiver before falling into the pail. That way when they stopped some one they could pull the evidence to proff their malfeasance. The glass would work the turnstile and then shatter leaving the fuss with no evidence, and the Clerk holding the bag since he had no slug to turn in with the tokens. ROAR |
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| (638032) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Jun 22 16:46:13 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jun 22 16:28:22 2008. someone must have made those glass slugs.Also, 1/2" seems like a VERY standard size, used for many things. You could buy a 1/2" lead rod, and cut yourself new tolkens as if it were bread. |
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Posted by BrightonExpBob on Sun Jun 22 17:07:32 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jun 21 03:09:31 2008. Better still try the Philippines, at least they teach there in English, at the Med and Nursing Schools |
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| (638043) | |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jun 22 17:14:52 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Jun 22 16:46:13 2008. The token was NOT 1/2"The Knock Out was designed to accommodate a standard fitting, which in turn was designed to accommodate a 1/2" EMT pipe. But the 1/2" was the INSIDE diameter of the pipe. So above the 1/2", we have the thickness of the pipe itself, which fits into a fitting, which itself has thickness, and fits into the box. Thus the piece of metal that had to be knocked out was quite a bit bigger than 1/2". Yes, I am sure that someone made those glass slugs, but that someone was likely enough some manufacture who needed them as lenses for a flashlight or something, and could get them cheaply. Probably some stock item out of Japan or someplace, remembering that this was before the days of major trade with China. ROAR |
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| (638044) | |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Jun 22 17:19:40 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jun 22 17:14:52 2008. oh i see. But i bet those knockout sizes were some standard size anyways. |
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| (638047) | |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jun 22 17:29:04 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 22 15:00:42 2008. Still, the underground portion of dulles is miniscule, and the easement being set aside for the Largo Extension helped trem,endously. Also, the very shallow enclosed box on the Largo extension is a couple of orders of magnitude less expensive than what New York has to do.My intent was to set the facts straight at to what was elevated, what was on the surface and what was in subway on the both projects. Your description of comparing apples to apples made it sound more like comparing apples to fried chicken. By stating the facts a brought the comparison back to apples and oranges. What seem to be missing from this discussion is the affect organized labor and all the associated rules and regulation that goes with it has on the cost of building things in New York City. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (638049) | |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jun 22 17:30:45 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Jun 22 17:19:40 2008. Yes. They had to accommodate fittings made by 100s of manufacturers.ROAR |
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| (638056) | |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 22 17:55:53 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jun 22 17:29:04 2008. "What seem to be missing from this discussion is the affect organized labor and all the associated rules and regulation that goes with it has on the cost of building things in New York City."The most recent escalations have more to do with the contracting companies and with raw materials, not union labor, though the latter have always had an effect of increasing costs. 1) China and India are using a lot more steel, concrete and oil and China has been holding domestic prices down, encouraging profligate use. 2) There are so many projects underway in New York that all the firms (Schiavone, Skanska, Perini, Judlau, Parsons etc.) have their larders full. They are not hungry, and their crews are working flat out at full capacity. Add a contract? Yeah, you'll pay a premium. |
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| (638059) | |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 22 17:59:11 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by BrightonExpBob on Sun Jun 22 17:07:32 2008. Not as strong in math and computer sciences, though. We use people who have MD and PhD degrees and know almost as much math as they do medicine... |
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Posted by EastSideRider on Sun Jun 22 19:18:11 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 22 03:19:22 2008. I've heard of about that myself (I think it was a Sears actually), but how were they able to build a station? |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jun 22 19:52:13 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 22 17:55:53 2008. During the construction blitz of the 1970, WMATA was hiring contractors from all over the country. Most brought some of their people with them, both labor and professionals.I don't even know if that is allowed by the labor rules and regulation in New York. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 22 20:25:46 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jun 22 19:52:13 2008. I do not know either. |
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| (638277) | |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Jun 22 23:18:10 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jun 22 16:11:06 2008. Something about, "Thou shalt not steal," right?:) |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jun 23 00:51:59 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 22 14:13:40 2008. The greatest dispatcher in the world can't do much if there are no crossovers, no pockets, and all sorts of rules that prevent wrong-railing, unless you know something we don't.The elimination of the turnback track at 72nd Street could prove to be a very big deal in the long run. We obviously don't know yet (and you don't either, if you can get a grasp on the concept of not knowing everything), but generally, less flexibility in how the railroad can be run is NOT a good thing. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 23 02:23:31 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Jun 22 16:02:44 2008. The Concourse Line has sufficient service. Building a Bronx Third Av Subway would give it even more relief. |
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| (638344) | |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 02:27:26 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by R30A on Sun Jun 22 15:44:53 2008. Agreed that a 125 St crosstown line, covering as much of 125 St as feasible, would be quite worthwhile. |
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| (638346) | |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 23 02:40:38 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Jun 22 14:28:38 2008. Then go work with the MTA and share your "wisdom" with them. Tell them how much smarter you are than them. Make sure to have a basket full of bananas and a toilet full of "chit" handy. Let us know how it goes. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 23 02:46:08 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sat Jun 21 02:18:19 2008. so CPW would only have the (C) while Bronx (B) riders and (A/C) riders from north of Columbus Circle wishing to go to 6th Av would all have too cram on the (D). Bad plan. Really bad plan. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Jun 23 02:52:48 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jun 22 14:13:40 2008. Damnit Man...You really get off on being a jerk. |
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| (638349) | |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 23 02:54:40 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun Jun 22 03:18:46 2008. I would do the opposite of what you suggest. I would re-flip the (B) and (C) in the Bronx. Then I would run an additional Concourse service. (let's call it the Y for now). It would run the same as the (B) in Manhattan but would merge with the SAS under Christie St either just before or just after Grand St Station. It would then continue to Hanover Sq. Of course this would imply the construction of the Christie Shallow Option. This plan wouldn't require any extra construction expenses except for switches near Grand St. It would also allow SAS trains to go to Brooklyn via Manny B if necessary. I'm not sure if such a service is needed. Time will tell. |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Mon Jun 23 03:10:55 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 23 02:54:40 2008. Due to the cost effectiveness of this plan, I do like it. However, I do think that the 2nd Ave. subway needs to be connected to the Concourse line somehow (either South of 161st St or as a crosstown 125th St. line over to Broadway) with a transfer at 125th St. to the A, B, C, D). |
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| (638360) | |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 03:29:28 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jun 23 00:51:59 2008. "The greatest dispatcher in the world can't do much if there are no crossovers"Who said anything about no crossovers? The last time I checked, the line would have at least one. That's all you need. "The elimination of the turnback track at 72nd Street could prove to be a very big deal in the long run." To foamers, it's the biggest disaster since the Titanic went down. To the general public, it means the Second Av Subway Phase I can actually get built and put into service within available budget. I think building the subway is more important, but then I'm not a foamer. "ess flexibility in how the railroad can be run is NOT a good thing." The least flexibility is accomplished by not building it at all, which is what we'd be doing if you were in charge. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jun 23 04:34:47 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Mon Jun 23 03:10:55 2008. I wouldn't mind a connection myself. The more flexibilty the better. However due to limited funds it would probably be a low priority for me. I would rather see an extension to a Bronx Third Av Subway to Bedford Park Blvd or Mosholu Pkwy via Fordham that would end in Concourse Yard. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 23 06:53:20 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Edwards! on Mon Jun 23 02:52:48 2008. Really? I never knew that!!!!!!!!!!! And all you people replying to him ARE ENCOURAGING HIM TO CONTINUE BEING A BIG JERK! Don't you understand that????? |
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Posted by FLASH GORDON on Mon Jun 23 08:59:01 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jun 23 00:51:59 2008. It will be fun to read all the posts after they finish the lineand they get a few dead trains that plug up everything and the passangers get sent to Queens. After working the system for 24 years iv seen it all and how messed up it can get. So relax you will never be lacking for things to write about about when it comes on line. FLASH GORDON |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jun 23 10:26:41 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by FLASH GORDON on Mon Jun 23 08:59:01 2008. And Ron will be criticizing them for the lack of foresight and for rushing the line unnecessarily. |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Mon Jun 23 10:51:47 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Jun 21 23:54:18 2008. ....and the beat goes on. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 10:58:17 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jun 23 10:26:41 2008. No, I'll be too busy laughing because you'll still be humping subway trains instead of posting anything of value. |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Jun 23 11:20:41 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 03:29:28 2008. but then I'm not a foamer.IRONIC POST OF THE YEAR! |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Jun 23 11:20:42 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 03:29:28 2008. but then I'm not a foamer.IRONIC POST OF THE YEAR! |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jun 23 11:30:18 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Mon Jun 23 03:10:55 2008. NO NO NO NO NO!The Concourse line is ALREADY connected to the rest of the city. It does not need another connection. It is sufficient that you are able to transfer to a different train. The Third Avenue Line in the Bronx is not connected to anything and that needs a connection before you can think of this other shit that will only serve to jam the interlockings and terminals anyway. Now go and stand in line with the rest of those Wildebeests, and you will be eaten in due turn. ROAR |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jun 23 11:38:29 2008, in response to Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by mkeit on Fri Jun 20 22:46:38 2008. Heh. Much ado about nothing. Lets see them actually finish the job and then we'll worry about if the station is too small.My money still says it will never be completed. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 11:40:51 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jun 23 11:30:18 2008. Yes, yes, a track connection wouldf be very nice if there is money to do it.Stand in line with the rest of the lions and the lion tamer will corral you in turn. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 11:41:34 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jun 23 11:38:29 2008. "Heh. Much ado about nothing."Major trauma for foamers. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 23 11:55:55 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Russ on Sat Jun 21 12:57:20 2008. Crowding and necessity have existed as reasons to build the SAS since 1955 (the year the Lex became the only East Side line). I don't care how badly it's needed, politics and finances will doom any part of the line below 63rd and it'll be a miracle to see the segment from 96th to 125th built. |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jun 23 12:15:27 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jun 21 01:14:32 2008. I read the document, I don't see how they will save money if they need to aquire more property. They're not just eliminating the center track, they are moving the ramps to 63rd street from inside to the outside. What this will kill is any kind of short-turn service, such as they are likely to have late nights and weekends, terminating Broadway trains at 72nd Street, assuming the entire line is built. From the looks of the connection deisgn, you could also route Broadway trains to the inner platform in the peak direction from Second Ave. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 23 12:24:42 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by R30A on Mon Jun 23 11:20:41 2008. loliawtp |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 23 12:26:30 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jun 23 11:38:29 2008. wow, you totally failed to grasp what has been said in this thread. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 12:58:46 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by FLASH GORDON on Mon Jun 23 08:59:01 2008. What makes me chuckle the most is that back in OUR day, the subways were justifiably a disaster on a daily basis owing to the lack of any repairs at all. Nowadays, cars are maintained, cleaned, track and froggies actually get replaced and STILL the railroad lies down. And that's on the main four-trackers with plenty more options that this one. Heh.This is a Bronx-bound D express, next stop Queens Plaza. :) |
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| (638497) | |
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Posted by R160 8818 on Mon Jun 23 13:04:18 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 12:58:46 2008. This is a Bronx-bound D express, next stop Queens Plaza. :) <-- NICE |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 13:05:00 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jun 23 12:15:27 2008. "What this will kill is any kind of short-turn service, such as they are likely to have late nights and weekends, terminating Broadway trains at 72nd Street, assuming the entire line is built."True, but then the most important service is Q and T to 125 St. If you have the money, a short turn service is cool. "I don't see how they will save money if they need to aquire more property." They are not acquiring more property. They MAY need an additional underground easement, depending on the depth. Look up "easement" vs. "property." On the other hand, reducing the size of the station cavern reduces the cost of the station by a facttor of square, if I recall correctly. That is, increasing the diameter increases the material cost by the square of the diameter, so reducing the diameter dramatically reduces that cost, and eliminationg the third track and second platform reduces the cost even more. |
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| (638500) | |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 13:07:04 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 12:58:46 2008. "Nowadays, cars are maintained, cleaned, track and froggies actually get replaced and STILL the railroad lies down."A loyt less than it used to. The delays you have today are nothing compared to what happened in YOUR day. MTA also reports on every delay today; back in your day all kinds of quap happened the railroad didn't bother to tell people. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 13:21:58 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 13:07:04 2008. Heh. The railroad didn't bother to tell ITSELF back in my day. Three trains stopped waiting for the ramp to 59 with trouble ahead, you'd see the ball drop in your face and the lineup ahead change to something else. And of course, arnines didn't have PA systems. Only clue to the pax at all was if the D train rolled in against the wall at 47/50. That was a definite clue. :) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 13:24:57 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by R160 8818 on Mon Jun 23 13:04:18 2008. One of my favorite "railroad whoopsies" was getting sent to Metropolitan on the Jamaica el ... it's an 8 car terminal at best, but the interlocking ahead of the old station *would* allow 10 cars to turn there *IF* you brought your electric portion less than one inch from the bumper, got on the ground to make CERTAIN that your tail flange cleared the point and PRAY. :) |
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Posted by R160 8818 on Mon Jun 23 13:31:39 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 13:24:57 2008. Very interesting! And on revenue service?How was the Chrystie Street Connection? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 13:45:38 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Mon Jun 23 12:15:27 2008. Sounds like they have no plans for a lower ever, since they'd need to correct the lack of center access to make it work at a later time. Then again, look at what they did with the QP interlockings to add 63rd when they finally got around to it. That access could have moved trains a LOT faster through there than what they built. Dumbasses. :( |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 13:57:35 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by R160 8818 on Mon Jun 23 13:31:39 2008. Southbound D, taken out of service at West 4th on the local track. Train had laid down on the interlocking as well at 2nd Avenue so my OOS got sent down Chrystie, supposedly to be turned at Delancy (a double lreverse move if I remember). But that wasn't to be either, so sent over the bridge to be turned at Myrtle. That also wasn't to be as a KK had laid down out there. Apparently they weren't used to 10 car trains over yonder and they just assumed it was a B and sent me up the upper Myrt. Surprise! Heh.Took a motor instructor and a dispatcher at Met to get me back out and headed back. But I had the outs on that one, I was *told* to proceed and outdoors, the radio worked fine. Kept telling them I was a D train, and I was aware that Met was "short" ... you can only tell dispatch twice that they're in for a world of hurt before "OK, genius" kicks in and you take the route. =) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 14:05:52 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 13:21:58 2008. Ayup... |
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