Re: Air Train question (567079) | |
![]() |
|
Home > SubChat |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
Page 15 of 29 |
![]() |
(578462) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 16:44:13 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 14:01:47 2008. The cost of building the line out to the parking lot far exceeded the cost of building it a little further out to the HB station.Yes, I understand that. That was only brought up to begin with because the opposition kept saying the whole line is "a circulator". The circulator only needed to go to the parking lot main station. The circulator did NOT have to go to HB. The HB "free" people from the parking lot only have that access as it happens to be there, and they can't charge people from that part of the parking lot who parked there a fare when they don't charge the people that happened to park near the other station. I can't see closing that station to parking lot people to avoid the semantics that the "some people pay vs some people don't" argument at HB, but if it helps to close the parking lot access to the HB station to avoid some "semantics" argument, than so be it...even though that would be as silly as not building HB due to the semantics problem. I don't use "because it's a circulator" as one of my arguments. No, that is true, but that's where the comment you are responding to came from, because other people have used that argument. |
|
![]() |
(578463) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 16:50:29 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 14:27:03 2008. A fare is not the proper word. If you think the term toll implies a particular view with which you disagree, you can use fee, as both tolls and fares are fees.It's a fare to ride airtrain. There is no "toll" to enter airport property, that's where I find the loonacy. If you want to use "fee", I can see that more than "pedestrian toll". But it's a "fee" for the Jamaica people then too. When entering a subway station EVERYONE has to pay a fare except scofflaws and people who have been granted leave to enter without a fare. In the case of Howard Beach AirTrain that is not the case. Yes, and I addressed that in another post. If you find that a "problem", and I only find it a problem in semantics, than simply close the access to that station from that far end of the parking lot. That station wasn't necessary for the "circulator" to the parking lot, but since it's there, they allowed access for people that happen to park at that part of the parking lot. Make them walk to the real parking lot station, and that "semantics" problem is solved. I would find that silly to stop that access just because of a semantics argument, but if that would solve the supposed inequity, then so be it. |
|
![]() |
(578464) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 16:52:08 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 14:33:44 2008. There's nothing more to say. It's all on the table, and both sides still disagree. |
|
![]() |
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
![]() |
(578465) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 16:53:01 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 14:34:07 2008. What is new? You pointed me earlier when I asked this to something about Jamaica being longer, but that's nothing new, and I already responded to that. |
|
![]() |
(578468) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Feb 29 17:04:26 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 16:38:33 2008. "The 6th Ave express was perhaps the most expensive to build in the system up until that time,"It required underpinning the local tracks for the entire length of the new express track. If I were to hazard a guess, that was more expensive than dropping the new 63rd St line under the East River (parts of that were premanufactured, floated into place and dropped under the waves). |
|
![]() |
(578471) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Feb 29 17:09:37 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 13:01:30 2008. A minor point, but until all transfer stations are ADA compliant, not all transfers to lines that, in turn, serve AirTrain are equally useful right now. |
|
![]() |
(578513) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 19:12:30 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 16:16:14 2008. HERRINGIn systems that have distance based fares, longer distance trips cost proportionally more than shorter ones in general. This is not the case with the AirTrain fee. |
|
![]() |
(578517) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 19:37:03 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 16:32:45 2008. No, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but just because there "could" be an article out there somewhere, doesn't mean there is the big problem that is always said to be about this $5 thing.You missed the whole point. I will not repeat it will likely continue to elude you. Just because "you and some others" feel you are correct doesn't mean you are correct any more than I and others on the other side are correct. No, that is not why we are correct. If you feel our most recent points are incorrect, you may demonstrate why. So far no one has done that to some of my most recent points. But it IS a same kind of connection. In both connections, it will bring you to the terminals And boarding at Lefferts will also bring you to the terminals, so that alone apparently does not justify a fare. in about the same time. Not relevant to the cost as I've already stated. Just because one is at the edge of the airport, and just because one just happens to also pick up parking lot people in addition to people coming from the subway doesn't mean it's a different type of connection. Yes it does, especially as one can travel nearly the entire length of the on-airport branch for no fare. If the PA decided to make a parkinglot somewhere along the Jamaica line, with a station added to service that, where people boarded for free, it would be no different either. It would be different. Such a parking lot would not be an on airport lot. It would be like any other lot. No, not at all. The lines that currently connect to AirTrain should be treated equally, that is not to say that every line NEEDS to connect to airtrain, just because some subway lines do. The logical conclusion to that is if not every line NEEDS to connect to the AirTrain, nor do the E and J. E and J passengers not wishing to pay the $5 can transfer to the A just like people on the D and other lines do now. And if you're so concerned about treating passengers equally, why are you not concerned about the unequal treatment that some passengers are receiving at Howard Beach? Length of the route doesn't matter. You can travel from 207th St on the A to Chambers St for the same price as someone that only travels from Broadway-Nassau to Chambers St. A distance based subway might be more equitable but when the subway opened it was considered unviable. Regardless of how viable it is now, it is politically impossible to implement. The AirTrain is a new system and is not encumbered by over 100 years of continuous practice. Not to mention that it's far easier to eliminate or lower a fare at one location than to completely reinvent a fare system. Furthermore in the case of the subway, EVERYONE pays the same fare regardless of their location of entry and exit. If the subway is a good analogy for AirTrain, then either everyone would have to pay $5, or no one. No I haven't ignored it. Just because I don't agree with your assesment doesn't mean I "ignored it" Yet you saw no need to respond to it until I called you on it and you continued to post the same thing despite my pre-existing response having already countered your point. |
|
![]() |
(578518) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 19:37:40 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 16:35:53 2008. Point conceded then. |
|
![]() |
(578519) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 19:39:31 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 16:38:33 2008. However the AirTrain can't be compared to such systems because it DOES NOT have a balanced fare system. It is free to Lefferts but $5 only a very short distance longer to Howard Beach. |
|
![]() |
(578522) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 19:43:24 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 16:50:29 2008. But it's a "fee" for the Jamaica people then too.Yes, and so is the $2 for the subway. It's a neutral term. I would find that silly to stop that access just because of a semantics argument, but if that would solve the supposed inequity, then so be it. Very well then, but it still doesn't justify such a high fare for such a short trip. |
|
![]() |
(578524) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 19:44:53 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Feb 29 17:09:37 2008. If charging different fares at Jamaica and Howard Beach causes a problem in this case then people who need ADA access can have the fare waived. |
|
![]() |
(578642) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 22:59:00 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 19:39:31 2008. Yes, but the Lefferts station is part of the circulator, they just happened to design the circulator with the loop a little smaller and the Federal Circle transfer station. |
|
![]() |
(578647) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 23:05:47 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 19:37:03 2008. And if you're so concerned about treating passengers equally, why are you not concerned about the unequal treatment that some passengers are receiving at Howard Beach?If that problem (in semantics) is such a proplem, close the HB station to parking lot people, it's not like it's in a convenient location anyway. If the subway is a good analogy for AirTrain, then either everyone would have to pay $5, or no one. No, because part of Airtrain is a circulator. No I haven't ignored it. Just because I don't agree with your assesment doesn't mean I "ignored it" No, not at all. |
|
![]() |
(578648) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 23:06:37 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 19:12:30 2008. AIrtrain is not a distance based system. |
|
![]() |
(578656) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 23:13:25 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 19:37:03 2008. You missed the whole point. I will not repeat it will likely continue to elude you.Well. I admidt, I am a little drunk right now, but I wasn't when I first responded to that comment. So far no one has done that to some of my most recent points. \\What recent points? I keep hearing about these. The logical conclusion to that is if not every line NEEDS to connect to the AirTrain, nor do the E and J. E and J passengers not wishing to pay the $5 can transfer to the A just like people on the D and other lines do now. Nut unlike all the other lines, the E and J DOES connect to the Airtrain, just like the A does, and unlike all the other lines. |
|
![]() |
(578753) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 1 04:32:32 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 11:26:34 2008. Calling it a toll rests on the premise that in the past, people were using the free entrance to either walk across the airport to the terminals, go jog there or play frisbee with their dog in the parking lot. I'm not from HB so I don't know if anybody there is complaining about having to pay $5 to partake in such activities nowadays. |
|
![]() |
(578765) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 07:29:56 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 19:43:24 2008. Yes, and so is the $2 for the subway. It's a neutral term.Okay, then I can totally agree with that. Mne of my biggest oppositions to my "opposition" on this topic is the use of the phrase "Pedestrian toll". Getting past the use of that phrase, which I find ludicrous, is something that would go a long way in trying to understand their position. I still find the $5 "fee" justified, however, not calling it a "Pedestrian Toll" makes leeway. Very well then, but it still doesn't justify such a high fare for such a short trip. Okay then, perhaps progress was made on this matter. I don't really think it's that much in the scheme of things, but just phrasing it that was "but it still doesn't justify such a hig fare for such a short trip" makes the opposition's argument much less ludicrous, thus making it a more realistic argument in my eyes. I can easier understand a point where someone thinks the "fare or fee" may be a little high for such a short trip before I would even begin to acknowledge an argument based on some ludicrous notion of a "pedestrian toll", a term that was only used by the opposition on this matter, to make AirTrain's fare structure look even more ridiculous than it really is. |
|
![]() |
(578770) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 07:51:47 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 1 04:32:32 2008. One of my biggest oppositions to the "other side's" view on this Airtrain matter is the use of the phrase "pedestrian toll". Every time that ludicrous statement is used, it alienates me further against their supposed hate of the AirTrain's fare structure.While I still don't feel that the Jamaica Leg or the HB leg of AirTrain should be different prices (and certainly not one of them free). And I feel that way because of reasons I have mentioned, such as the fact that if HB was free and Jamaica was $5, it would cause a cannibilization of the Jamaica leg by the HB leg in their returns on collecting revenues from the Jamaica leg as they do now. A free HB leg would only take away the current set up where people chose either the E or the A to take to the airport, allowing the Jamaica leg to collect fares as it should. A free HB leg would take that choice almost completely away, as many many more people that currently have a choice to use either, as they would be $5 no matter which one they chose would many if not most of those people chose HB instead for obvious reasons. So a well balanced system as it is now in terms of collection of fares for revenue would become scaled to one side, and a loss of significant revenue on the Jamaica leg, revenue that is needed, and revenue that can be used towards operation and maintenance of the system. Currently, while both airtrain legs take about 10 minutes to get to the terminals, regardless of the difference in distances, the choice of which line to use, the A or the E, is just a matter of which subway line can get you to the AirTrain station faster, as once at that airtrain station, both legs take about 10 minutes. (I am just excluding J for simplicity, as most of us can agree that out of the Airtrain connecting subway lines, the J is the clear third). Taking price out of the mix, people don't care if the A may "bring them closer to the Airport than the E at Jamaica" or how far they have traveled on one leg vs the other, all they care about is that their AirTrain (whichever leg they chose) will get them to the terminal in that 10 minutes so that they can catch their plane. And making both the same price makes an even balance for people to choose which leg would be more convenient from their "point A". I can see that the I can perfectly understand why they charge the same amount on each leg. |
|
![]() |
(578781) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 08:39:25 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 19:37:03 2008. Let's try this again, I shouldn't have attempted to respond last night.You missed the whole point. I will not repeat it will likely continue to elude you. You say that just because an article was never written or that opposition isn't widespread that doesn't mean there isn't a valid point. Is that correct? One of the major hurdles that has to be overcome is the use of the phrase "pedestrian toll". I am never going to even begin to understand the opposition's views if that term isn't done away with. It's only used as a semantics argument, and only used to make Airtrain's fare structure look more ludicrous than it may or many not be. Most people's choice in using AirTrain is not a matter of how "close" the subway line will take them to the airport before boarding Airtrain. Their choice in what mode of transportation to take to the airport is basically just to get them to the airport on time. Both legs get them to their terminal from the subway station in 10 minutes (give or take, source AirTrain website, as well as personal use). There is a cost motivation too of course, and there are many choices one can use. They can use a car which will add a certain conveninece and cost, personal airport shuttles services which offer a certain convenience and cost, they can choose Airtrain which will add a certain convenience or cost, and for people that want to go "cheaper" there are bus options. All the options are out there, and all may be wiser or more attractive for different people. People don't care if they traveled 5 miles or 1 mile, they care that it will get them to their plane on time in the time advertised airtrain will take them there. So really, I don't see people having a problem with the fare at HB. To most, it's irrelevant how far they physically travelled from the subway station to their terminal. They are looking at that "10 minutes". it's not a "conspiracy, immoral, or bad transportation policy". It's a level fare structure making Airtrain a balanced system from either subway access point, regardless of the distance traveled, bot legs take 10 minutes, which is what most people are looking at. Most are not looking at how far they traveled in those 10 minutes. No conspiracy. No, that is not why we are correct. If you feel our most recent points are incorrect, you may demonstrate why. So far no one has done that to some of my most recent points. I haven't seen any "most recent points" that haven't been addressed about this. The last one I saw was the distance point, and I have addressed that earlier in the thread, and again more recently. If there are more, I searched way back numerous times, and I can't find them to respond. So if I "missed" something, please point me to it. If not, I can't respond, as I don't know what I am supposed to be responding to, so nothing is willfully being skipped. Yes it does, especially as one can travel nearly the entire length of the on-airport branch for no fare. Right, I understand that. But remember that the HB station was only build because of it's connection to the subway station. There is no logical way they can charge people for parking and then again for a shuttle, as THAT would be out of the ordinary. To use the phrase used over and over by the opposition, "No where is a circulator charged for". So, I can't see rectifying the supposed and alleged "injustice" by making the parking lot people pay $5 to use that branch. The conroversy appears to be then that there is a discrepancy in one side calling the connection to Howard Beach a part of the circulator, and the other side does not consider that to be the fact. Whatever one wants to call it, a circulator or a route, I perfectly understand why they charge at Howard Beach the same as Jamaica, and I explained that balancing in another post. It would be different. Such a parking lot would not be an on airport lot. It would be like any other lot. It would be if the airport owned it and used it for the parking use. It's irrelevant on weather that lot butted right up against the rest of the main property, if it had to cross a highway dividing it from the main property, or if it had cross over someone else's property before entering the main airport property. Either way it is AIRPORT PROPERTY's parking lot for use for the airport. The schematics or space considerations may have made it necessary to build one lot in that matter. And parking fee structure for that lot would be the same as for other lots for the same purpose, even if space considerations required it to be "somewhere along the Jamaica branch" instead of butting up to the rest of the airport. The logical conclusion to that is if not every line NEEDS to connect to the AirTrain, nor do the E and J. E and J passengers not wishing to pay the $5 can transfer to the A just like people on the D and other lines do now. And if you're so concerned about treating passengers equally, why are you not concerned about the unequal treatment that some passengers are receiving at Howard Beach? Right, not ever line NEEDS to connect. But in addition to the A, the E and the j lines DO connect to AirTrain. that's all that matters. I never assumed every single line MUST connect. Those are two different assumptions, and I did not even hint at the latter, and agreeing with the first one does not imply the latter. As for the parking lot people vs the Howard Beach NYCT people, again, it's a difference in semantics. The HB airtrain station was built with only one purpose in mind, to connect to the HB subway station. The other station was only meant to connect to the long term parking lot. A smaller portion of the parking lot people may use the Howard Beach station just because it's there, and I see no reason to close it off for them just to evade a semantics problem with "some riding free". The situation could have been resolved with a larger loop which looped through the long term parking lot, and then had the Howard Beach branch break off of that free loop circulator, but that probably would have cost more, as the loop would have had to be bigger, not to mention the time of the circulator would be longer too because of the longer loop necessary for that design. They chose the more efficient smaller loop, with a long term parking lot station along a branch instead. I feel that is the better choice, even if it makes a problem in semantics with hthe free vs subway people. A similar way to resolve that would be to charge the parking lot people $5 for the use of the same leg, but that also would cause another problem of semantics, a far worse one I feel. A distance based subway might be more equitable but when the subway opened it was considered unviable. Regardless of how viable it is now, it is politically impossible to implement. Agreed. The AirTrain is a new system and is not encumbered by over 100 years of continuous practice. Just because it's a new system doesn't mean it must be or is better to be distance based farewise. Furthermore in the case of the subway, EVERYONE pays the same fare regardless of their location of entry and exit. False. Everyone pays different amounts. Depending on the fare structure they wish to use they have many choices. Some even "ride free". Let me explain. Some people pay $2. Some pay $1.67. Some pay less than that through unlimiteds. It could also be said that some ride "free", as if they buy a daily, weekly, or monthly for "x" amount, and they ride very frequently, after they use up the threshold of rides that would be the cost of those rides using the base fare or the pay per ride fares, you could subtract that, and any ride after that could be considered "free". Of course, some may not like that notion and have to find the need to divide the cost of the unlimited pass by the number of rides actually taken instead to come up with some amount per ride, but that's neither here nor there, as no, everyone doesn't pay the same for the subway. If the subway is a good analogy for AirTrain, then either everyone would have to pay $5, or no one. I addressed that above. Yet you saw no need to respond to it until I called you on it and you continued to post the same thing despite my pre-existing response having already countered your point. That's not true at all. I continued to post "the same thing", as I didn't feel your points countered my points, not because I "ignored" anything. If I don't feel your point counters my original point, I i will of course still hold by my original point. I think the point we are talking about in this part of the post is the connections being treated equally. Please correct me if I am wrong. I mentioned many times in this thread, and very early on I covered and it based way back to Charles G's comment somewhere in this thread where I mentioned that I feel the two subway connections should be treated equally. I also covered it above, so look for that comment above in this post, or the post I just made before this one, so it's no sense repeating it. |
|
![]() |
(578790) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 1 08:52:27 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 07:51:47 2008. One of my biggest oppositions to the "other side's" view on this Airtrain matter is the use of the phrase "pedestrian toll". Every time that ludicrous statement is used, it alienates me further against their supposed hate of the AirTrain's fare structure.PANYNJ comes close to using that phrase itself by saying "AirTrain is free on airport property" and "$5 charge to exit to the subway" at Howard Beach. Thus they are saying it is free to take Airtrain to the HB station. The only charge is to leave that station (and airport property) by one of the two available exits. That sounds very much like a pedestrian toll to me. To me, calling it a pedestrian toll doesn't make it any more or less justified than calling it a transit fare. |
|
![]() |
(578798) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 09:02:44 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by AlM on Sat Mar 1 08:52:27 2008. PANYNJ comes close to using that phrase itself by saying "AirTrain is free on airport property" and "$5 charge to exit to the subway" at Howard Beach.Thus they are saying it is free to take Airtrain to the HB station. The only charge is to leave that station (and airport property) by one of the two available exits. That sounds very much like a pedestrian toll to me. Here's what I found. Here's what the fare says on the website that I found. And they say the SAME for Jamaica AND Howard Beach, so please don't try and mislead by saying they only say it for Howard Beach. I can't seem to direct link to it so you have to click this link, and then click "costs": http://www.panynj.gov/airtrain/ COST AND TICKETS Ride AirTrain free within the airport All AirTrain rides within the airport are free, so if you only use AirTrain to connect between the airline terminals, parking, hotel shuttles, and rental car facilities, there's no fee to pay and no ticket is required. AirTrain is affordable. Make the connection with the MetroCard. When entering or exiting the AirTrain system at Howard Beach or Jamaica station, in order to connect to or from the Long Island Rail Road (LIRR), subway, local bus, or street, you will pay an access fee. • Use a Pay-Per-Ride MetroCard and pay $5 per ride. • Buy the Unlimited Ride MetroCard for AirTrain for $40, and pay less than $1 per ride. Children under 5 ride free. The $40 Unlimited Ride MetroCard for AirTrain is the only reduced fee MetroCard for AirTrain. If you use LIRR, subway, or local bus to connect to or from AirTrain, you must also pay the applicable fare. AlM: To me, calling it a pedestrian toll doesn't make it any more or less justified than calling it a transit fare. I already agreed with Pig when he brought up "Fee". I said that was a viable thing to call it even before seeing that PA uses that phrase too. That's not to call it a "Pedestrian Toll", as that phrase was only coined by the the Airtraian bashers to try and make Airtrain's fare/fee structure more ludicrous than it really is. |
|
![]() |
(579029) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 19:01:19 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 29 11:27:14 2008. i already addressed that. sorry. you lose. |
|
![]() |
(579032) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 19:02:12 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 29 11:28:40 2008. they would have no reason to do that according to chris. |
|
![]() |
(579033) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 19:04:04 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 11:08:15 2008. who? i don't remember these supposed people. |
|
![]() |
(579034) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 19:04:36 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Feb 29 11:30:58 2008. i doubt he did. |
|
![]() |
(579036) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 19:06:45 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 22:59:00 2008. The HB station is part of the circulator too. You can get off there for free. You know that, right? |
|
![]() |
(579037) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 19:08:06 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 12:37:37 2008. Yes, it is LOT longer! Thew Jamaica branch takes several minutes to get to airport property! While the HB branch is ALREADY ON AIRPORT PROPERTY. As such, they ARE NOT THE SAME at all, as I said. |
|
![]() |
(579064) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 20:27:31 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 23:05:47 2008. Yes you have ignored some of our points. |
|
![]() |
(579067) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 20:34:13 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 23:13:25 2008. haha |
|
![]() |
(579068) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 20:37:19 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 29 16:44:13 2008. The HB "free" people from the parking lot only have that access as it happens to be there, and they can't charge people from that part of the parking lot who parked there a fare when they don't charge the people that happened to park near the other station. I can't see closing that station to parking lot people to avoid the semantics that the "some people pay vs some people don't" argument at HB, but if it helps to close the parking lot access to the HB station to avoid some "semantics" argument, than so be it...even though that would be as silly as not building HB due to the semantics problem.All of your listed options are WAY more silly than simply just getting rid of the fare at HB for subway passengers. I don't see why you are willing to implement ridiculous ideas like those you listed instead of just agreeing that it makes the most sense to drop the fare for subway riders. |
|
![]() |
(579069) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 20:40:19 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by AlM on Sat Mar 1 08:52:27 2008. Nice! They admit it is a pedestrian toll because IT IS! Excellent post. |
|
![]() |
(579111) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:08:40 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 20:40:19 2008. No, it's a fee to use AirTrain, as they said. |
|
![]() |
(579116) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:10:12 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 20:37:19 2008. All of your listed options are WAY more silly than simply just getting rid of the fare at HB for subway passengers.I was not advocating any of those things, I was using those to explain that it's all semantics. |
|
![]() |
(579118) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:11:09 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 20:34:13 2008. Yes, ignore that post. :) |
|
![]() |
(579121) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:12:29 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 20:27:31 2008. I can't find them. |
|
![]() |
(579122) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 22:12:30 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:08:40 2008. No, they admitted there is pedestrian toll to exit to NYCT. |
|
![]() |
(579124) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 22:13:23 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:10:12 2008. Yes you were. You listed them all as options. The only option you didn't list was simply getting rid of the fare for subway riders. |
|
![]() |
(579126) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:14:01 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 19:08:06 2008. Both take about 10 minutes to get to the terminals. THAT is what people care about, not the distance they traveled in those 10 minutes. Passengers choosing the E to Jamaica arrive at Jamaica knowing their AirTrain will take them to their terminal in about 10 minutes. the same at Howard Beach. |
|
![]() |
(579127) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:14:41 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 19:06:45 2008. Yes, I addressed that already in this mornings post. |
|
![]() |
(579129) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:16:05 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 19:02:12 2008. Where did I say that? |
|
![]() |
(579130) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 22:16:41 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:11:09 2008. nut |
|
![]() |
(579132) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Mar 1 22:18:24 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 22:16:41 2008. Cashew nut |
|
![]() |
(579133) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 22:18:25 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:12:29 2008. The one about no other on-property circulators charging a fare for passengers from a connecting transit service. also i guess some of Pig's post that I don't have links to. |
|
![]() |
(579135) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 22:20:01 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:14:01 2008. It has nothing to do with what people care about. It has to do with $5 being charged to ride from Jamaica to Fed Circle and $5 being charged to ride from HB to Lefferts. HUGE difference in distance. And the latter is wholly on-property while the former is mostly off-property. |
|
![]() |
(579137) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 22:20:58 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:14:41 2008. But you're not admitting that the HB station is fully part of the circulator. It is on the property and it is free. That makes it part of the circulator. |
|
![]() |
(579140) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:22:52 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 22:18:25 2008. I did adress that somewhere. It all depends on if someone considers the Howard Beach Branch a circulator or not. I went into a whole thing about how it could have been designed with a bigger loop (to solve the semantics of that) with the long term lot on the loop, and the HB a branch off it. It's somewhere here. I think I either posted it yesterday or earlier today. I am not going to retype that whole post, but it can probably be found in 'view flat fairly easily. |
|
![]() |
(579141) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 22:23:39 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:16:05 2008. you said that they only charge a fare because they had to build the station at HB. and if they didn't build it, they wouldn't need to charge a fare for people coming from the subway. |
|
![]() |
(579143) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:24:51 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 22:20:58 2008. I don't agree it's a "circulator". That's where the discrepancy lies. I explained that somewhere here already. |
|
![]() |
(579145) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 1 22:26:13 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Mar 1 22:20:01 2008. It doesn't matter. AirTrain is not a distance based system, it has a flat fee fare structure. |
|
![]() |
Page 15 of 29 |