|
|
| Re: Air Train question (567079) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 12 of 29 |
||
|
| (577697) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 21:18:57 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Feb 27 19:55:03 2008. The parking lot certainly didn't need two stations.I certainly think it may have. It's a huge lot. But so what? Why does building another station mean that only some people using that station have to pay a fare? |
|
|
| (577699) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 21:20:54 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 21:09:07 2008. We already answered it. It's a free on-property circulator. Those don't have fares. Why don't you understand that? |
|
|
| (577701) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:23:49 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Feb 27 18:13:53 2008. He means that the fence is there so people don't try and beat the AirTrain fare.Once again: If there were no fence and there were therefore a legal way to walk from the HB subway station into the parking lot, then it wouldn't be fare evasion to use that route. You're argument is like saying using the Brooklyn Bridge is toll evasion: You're evading the Battery Tunnel toll. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (577702) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 21:24:15 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 21:13:36 2008. No, we're talking about WHY AirTrain at HB should not have a fare for only people coming from the subway station.There's no question about the present world. In the present world a pedestrian toll is charged to access airport property, under the guise of an airtrain fare. The only discussion is about why the fare for subway passengers should be dropped. If you're not interested in that, then by all means stop posting! No one's making you post to a thread about a subject that you don't care about! |
|
|
| (577703) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:24:53 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:23:49 2008. I meant YOUR argument, sorry. |
|
|
| (577705) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:27:50 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 21:13:36 2008. No, you are wrong. We fully accept the facts about HB. Our argument is two-fold:That the access fee at HB is just that, an access fee or a pedestrian toll, it is not a fare. That said access fee is not good policy. |
|
|
| (577707) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 21:31:06 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 21:20:54 2008. It's a free on-property circulator. Those don't have fares.Granted arguendo (although I recall one counterexample being raised, but let's omit that for now). You already said, quite rightly, that those boarding at Howard Beach who are charged the access fee are coming from some distance off-property. They walk across 'the imaginary line', no? |
|
|
| (577708) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:33:16 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by italianstallion on Wed Feb 27 19:31:21 2008. Which constitutes an access fee for airport property, because the only difference between people entering Station A from the parking lot or the subway is that the latter began their AirTrain journey a few feet outside airport property and had to pay to enter the property. |
|
|
| (577709) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 21:34:01 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:27:50 2008. That said access fee is not good policy.That's assertion, not argument. |
|
|
| (577710) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:34:32 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 19:34:21 2008. Do you disagree that it costs money to deadhead a train? Now do you think that the extra cost of taking on passengers on a train that would have to be running anyway exceeds the revenue collected from them? |
|
|
| (577711) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 21:36:21 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 21:24:15 2008. I see now that Charles G was quite prescient.You have your (mistaken, with due respect) view, and I have mine. Meanwhile, there's an access charge that most of the people in this world quite merrily pay without so much as a quibble. |
|
|
| (577712) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:39:36 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Feb 27 19:55:03 2008. The distance between HB and Lefferts does not justify a $5 fare given that the fare for riding the much longer distance from Lefferts to Federal Circle and beyond to the terminals is nothing. |
|
|
| (577714) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:44:48 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 21:09:07 2008. If the fence were opened there would be no fare, therefore their having turnstiles would to collect a "fare" would be stupid and they certainly wouldn't do it.The rest of your argument makes no sense. I ask you again: How is a fare or charge itself enforcement for farebeating? There is no farebeating in the absence of a fare. |
|
|
| (577716) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:46:07 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 21:34:01 2008. We have posted numerous arguments to back that up. |
|
|
| (577719) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 21:53:26 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:44:48 2008. If the fence were opened there would be no fare, therefore their having turnstiles would to collect a "fare" would be stupid and they certainly wouldn't do it.I ask you again: How is a fare or charge itself enforcement for farebeating? There is no farebeating in the absence of a fare. We'll try this again. I said: "You're confusing the reasons for a fare with the reasons to enforce payment of the fare set." The confusion on your part hasn't cleared up. You give a conditional: If the fence were opened there would be no fare But that conditional is clearly a counterfactual. The fence hasn't been opened, and there is still an access fee being charged and being payed without protest or outrage. I asked earlier for your argument why there shouldn't be an access charge. You replied simply that the access charge is 'bad transportation policy', whatever that is. That notion is normative, and clearly not many people share that view with you, it seems, and clearly and most relevantly not the people who use Airtrain. So where's the argument to the PA that they should not charge any access fee at Howard Beach? |
|
|
| (577723) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 22:07:53 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:46:07 2008. We have posted numerous arguments to back that up.Refresh our memories then. I recall only two claims. (1) The contested and subjective value judgment on your part and by Terrapin Station - as against that of Airtrain customers who actually fork over the access fee - that it's 'bad transportation policy'. So what? The intersubjective poll of people in general causes this claim to work only for those who agree with the value judgment in question. If one doesn't think it's 'bad transportation policy', she isn't going to be persuaded by just repetition that it's 'bad transportation policy'. (2) The claim that the Airtrain is a free on-property circulator. The trouble with this is that NYCT riders come from off-property, just like at Jamaica, in fact. Your debating partner here went for the (baited) claim that any distance Airtrain went off-property justifies an access fee. He relied on the distinction, to his mind anyway, that the Airtrain vehicle doesn't go off PA property. But so what? The Airtrain system necessarily does lead one off property. Ergo, for people headed to/from A trains at Howard Beach, they are coming from off-property. |
|
|
| (577726) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Wed Feb 27 22:25:13 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:33:16 2008. So what? PA can charge for access if it wants. The parking lot folks pay for parking anyway. |
|
|
| (577750) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 23:42:24 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 22:07:53 2008. (1)There is good and bad. This is bad. It's obvious. I'm sorry you don't see how charging mass transit users a fee to access the airport, while allowing cars to access the airport for free, is very bad transportation policy. I guess this is why you're the lawyer and not the transportation professional. (2) AirTrain doesn't go ff property. And even if it, it wouldn't, because it doesn't need to. No other circulator in the country that takes you to a point where you can get other transit charges you an access fee. |
|
|
| (577751) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 23:45:29 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 21:36:21 2008. I see now that Charles G was quite prescient.Charles G fully accepts that it is a pedestrian toll and not an AirTrain fare. You have your (mistaken, with due respect) view, and I have mine. No, it is not mistaken at all. There are no mistakes about it. It's clear as day what the PANYNJ is pulling over there. Just because you don't care doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Meanwhile, there's an access charge that most of the people in this world quite merrily pay without so much as a quibble. Ahahaahah! And you base that on what? What Ron says??? Ahaahahahah! Please tell me how you know more than me about this. Humor me. |
|
|
| (577754) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 23:48:08 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by italianstallion on Wed Feb 27 22:25:13 2008. Anyone can charge for anything if they want. But that doesn't make it right! Hello!The parking folks pay for parking per car, not per person, and they pay the same daily rate no matter how long they park for. An AirTrain fee doesn't really work into that very well. And what about the people who take NYCT to Lefferts and board for free? Why do they get to go for free, when people coming from NYCT at Howard Beach have to pay? How does that make any sense at all? |
|
|
| (577756) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 23:52:09 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 21:31:06 2008. huh? people on the Q10 ride across it and then board airtrain for free one station later. And when the A isn't running due to a GO and people get shittle bused to Howard Beach from Rockaway Blvd, the buses come in via the lefferts blvd entrance to the parking lot (i assume) and then drive over to the HB station, bypassing the lefferts station. the passengers are then expected to walk from the bus, which is already on airport property, onto the NB A platform, through a door only opened for these events, and then along the platform and then back up the airtrain fare control, where they have to pay. what kind of crap is that? airtrain did not get them onto the property! NYCT did! |
|
|
| (577757) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 23:53:28 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:34:32 2008. yes, i think it just might, especially if they could use less cars and/or carry more inbound passengers if the trains got back out the suburbs faster. of course i don't know for sure without doing an analysis, but I don't think the answer is already clear one way or the other. |
|
|
| (577760) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 23:54:36 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 21:53:26 2008. The fence WAS open! They closed it just so they could charge a fare!!!!! I'm saying it should never have been closed!!! |
|
|
| (577838) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 07:51:57 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 23:48:08 2008. Why should the NYCT people that decide tto take the J or the E to AirTrain have to be punished pay, while the NYCT people that decide to take the A be given a free ride? |
|
|
| (577840) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 07:53:11 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 23:45:29 2008. Charles G fully accepts that it is a pedestrian toll and not an AirTrain fare.Charles G is also rational enough to understand there are valid reasons for the fare at Howard Beach. |
|
|
| (577841) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 07:56:36 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 23:42:24 2008. There would have been absolutely no reason for them to build "their circulator" any further than the long term parking lot station. That's where the necessity for the circulator and a way to shuttle passengers to the terminals ended. They only went through the expense of building the rest of the branch to the far corner of the parking lot, and the expense of the Howard Beach AirTrain station (which is in inconvenient and almost useless corner of the parking lot fot the parking lot) because of the fare they would get at Howard Beach to match the Jamaica leg. There is no way they needed two parking lot stations, and certainly not in the location of the HB AirTrain station if not for the NYCT HB station. |
|
|
| (577842) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 07:59:22 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:46:07 2008. No you haven't. People are only traveling to the Howard Beach station (just like Jamaica) because of the connection to AirTrain. For most people, they have two choices depending on where they are coming from. Giving one of the NYCT stations an advantage will take away that choice, and lead to an uneven use. IT's completely clear why they charge the same fare at both Aitrain-NYCT connections. |
|
|
| (577843) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 08:01:32 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:44:48 2008. Right, but since there is a FARE to ride AirTrain there, the fence is necessary to avoid farebeating. |
|
|
| (577844) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 08:04:24 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:39:36 2008. But there would have been no reason to even build the last segment of the Howard Beach branch if not for the NYCT station. All THEY needed for their CIRCULATOR is the parking lot station. The Howard Beach AirTrain station was only built for ONE reason, to connect to the Howard Beach NYCT station. They certainly woundn't have chosen that out of the way, far corner of the parking lot station for a second parking lot station (which wasn't needed to begin with). |
|
|
| (577845) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 08:06:49 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:27:50 2008. That's all heresay, and I feel it would be even worse uneven policy if the E and J riders had to pay to access AirTrain, yet the A people did not. The A station connection wouldn't even exist if not for the fact that they would be getting revenues out of it. |
|
|
| (577846) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 08:09:39 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Feb 27 21:23:49 2008. No, because one method requires a FARE and the other does not. The comparison between the Brooklyn Bridge and the Battery is like comparing the AirTrain method to the Q10. |
|
|
| (577847) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 08:12:49 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 21:20:54 2008. The circulator ends at the parking lot. They wouldn't have gone through the expense of or needed to or built the last part, and the last HB station if not for the HB A train station. They don't need two parking lot stations, and especially not a second one in an inconvenient far corner of the edge of the parking lot. Since it was there anyway, they allowed access from the aprking lot if some cars happen to park at that far end, but it certainly wasn't built for the parking lot.So for your semantic argument to be fullfilled, just block access from the parkinglot to the Howard Beach Airtrain station. It may not make sense to do that, but at least 5 or 6 (or maybe even less) people at SubCHat may be happy. |
|
|
| (577848) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 08:14:25 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 27 21:18:57 2008. So block access from the parking lot. It's not necessary for the parking lot anyway. At least this complete semantics part of the argument can then be taken away. |
|
|
| (577971) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by JohnL on Thu Feb 28 15:10:26 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 07:51:57 2008. Because the people who take AirTrain from Jamaica are paying for transportation to the airport. The people who go to Howard Beach are paying to walk onto the airport and take the circulator.By the way, I think that the Jamaica leg is overpriced for its distance, but that’s another discussion. |
|
|
| (577973) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Thu Feb 28 15:13:55 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by JohnL on Thu Feb 28 15:10:26 2008. By the way, I think that the Jamaica leg is overpriced for its distance, but that’s another discussion.But it is so much cheaper (even when combined with an LIRR fare) than its one main competition, taxis from midtown or towns on the Island, and so much faster than its other competition, buses from Jamaica to JFK, that those who ride it are happy to pay the fare. |
|
|
| (577976) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Feb 28 15:17:59 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 07:51:57 2008. I've told you this so many times already...Like JohnL said, the Jamaica branch is a rapid transit line taking you from a downtown nowhere near the airport TO and ONTO airport property, and justifiably charges a fare. However the Howard Beach branch is only an on-property circulator. NYCT brought you TO the airport property and your feet brought you ONTO airport property, however you a charged a pedestrian toll for the privaledge of allowing your feet to bring you ONTO airport property. Once there, you take the free circulator. |
|
|
| (577978) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Feb 28 15:19:16 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 07:51:57 2008. I've told you this so many times already...Like JohnL said, the Jamaica branch is a rapid transit line taking you from a downtown nowhere near the airport TO and ONTO airport property, and justifiably charges a fare. However the Howard Beach branch is only an on-property circulator. NYCT brought you TO the airport property and your feet brought you ONTO airport property, however you are charged a pedestrian toll for the privilege of allowing your feet to bring you ONTO airport property. Once there, you take the free circulator. |
|
|
| (577980) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Thu Feb 28 15:27:45 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Feb 28 15:19:16 2008. You've made a strong argument that the HB AirTrain charge is a pedestrian toll. The PANYNJ pretty much says so on its web site, saying that use of AirTrain on airport property is free, and there is a charge to exit to the subway at HB.You've made a strong argument that the charge is unfair. But of course "unfair" is always a subjective thing so people can always have a different opinion. You've made a moderate argument that the fare is bad transportation policy. I think the weak point in that argument is that the HB charge is so minor in the overall scheme of NY area transportation, that any badness of policy is virtually irrelevant. So why not drop it now? I keep looking at Airtrain posts in the hope that some of them may have something new to say, and I'm repeatedly disappointed. |
|
|
| (578024) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 17:30:52 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Feb 28 15:19:16 2008. I've told you this so many times already...And I told you so many times already why I don't agree with that, and the reasons the PA charges at Howard Beach. Nothing has changed since the beginning of the week when we had this conversation. Nothing has changed since last week when we had this conversation. Nothing has changed since the last time we had this conversation, and nothing has changed since the first time we had this conversation. however you are charged a pedestrian toll for the privilege of allowing your feet to bring you ONTO airport property And that's the semantics part of the argument that I am not accepting, and don't agree with. |
|
|
| (578025) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 17:32:26 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by JohnL on Thu Feb 28 15:10:26 2008. By the way, I think that the Jamaica leg is overpriced for its distance, but that’s another discussion.I certainly don't, and Howard beach shouldn't be any different of a price than Jamaica. |
|
|
| (578026) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 17:34:03 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Feb 28 15:17:59 2008. And I told you many times WHY the PA even built the Howard Beach station to begin with. It's certainly not because they needed a second station in their parking lot, and even if they did, it certainly wouldn't have been built in the inconvenient location (to the parking lot) the HB Airtrain station was built. It was ONLY built because of the connection to the subway there. |
|
|
| (578094) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Feb 28 21:06:08 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 17:34:03 2008. Stuck in moving sand or Hotel California? :) |
|
|
| (578215) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 03:19:49 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 21:53:26 2008. But that conditional is clearly a counterfactual.That's why I said if the fence were opened. See, proper grammar always makes things clearer. Still however, you are skirting the issue. How is charging a fare enforcement for farebeating? You are coming up with some bullshit on how I'm posting about hypothetical scenarios yet you are not answering this simple question. I asked earlier for your argument why there shouldn't be an access charge. You replied simply that the access charge is 'bad transportation policy', whatever that is. That notion is normative, and clearly not many people share that view with you, it seems, and clearly and most relevantly not the people who use Airtrain. Because those of us who are opposed to the charge have articulated are reasons so much that there is little reason to do so again. The information is there for you to read. |
|
|
| (578217) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Feb 29 03:22:14 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 21:09:07 2008. It's over a week later and you guys are still arguing over this...cool. |
|
|
| (578218) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 03:25:02 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Feb 27 22:07:53 2008. The claim that the Airtrain is a free on-property circulator. The trouble with this is that NYCT riders come from off-property, just like at Jamaica, in fact. Your debating partner here went for the (baited) claim that any distance Airtrain went off-property justifies an access fee. He relied on the distinction, to his mind anyway, that the Airtrain vehicle doesn't go off PA property. But so what? The Airtrain system necessarily does lead one off property. Ergo, for people headed to/from A trains at Howard Beach, they are coming from off-property.All people at Jamaica, regardless of their initial origin pay the same fare (excluding the irrelevant joyriders who ride to Jamaica and back). This is NOT true for people for all people at Howard Beach. Why is it that people who happened to find their way into the airport there pay nothing while the people who found themselves only a few feet outside the airport property have to pay an access fee? The AirTrain at Howard Beach isn't providing anyone access from outside the airport, the people there have found their own way into the airport. If the Port Authority felt that the cost of building the AirTrain to Howard Beach was such that they have to charge a fare for service there, why do they only charge it to a subset of the passengers there? |
|
|
| (578220) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 03:33:20 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 07:51:57 2008. We've already answered that question. Many times. Why don't you rebut our response instead of continuing to do your best impression of a broken record. |
|
|
| (578221) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Feb 29 03:36:01 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by JohnL on Thu Feb 28 15:10:26 2008. "By the way, I think that the Jamaica leg is overpriced for its distance, but that’s another discussion. "I wonder where it is o the revenue curve. What fare would produce max total monthly revenue? |
|
|
| (578222) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 03:37:50 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 17:32:26 2008. In the case of Howard Beach the subway already stops at the entrance to the Airport. In the case of Jamaica, it does not. |
|
|
| (578223) | |
Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 03:41:20 2008, in response to Re: Air Train question, posted by AlM on Thu Feb 28 15:27:45 2008. The problem is that some people rehash the same points over and over again. Terrapin, I and others on our side have no choice but to respond to them with the points we've already made on those issues. Maybe if more of our arguments could be countered with new material. The only good "new material" is the argument that the HB fare discourages people from using the HB neighborhood as a park and ride. |
|
|
| (578225) | |
Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 29 03:47:23 2008, in response to Re: Diagrams Re: Air Train question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 28 07:53:11 2008. Yes, and he is rational enough to admit it is not a fare (despite having a rational reason) and doesn't dismiss the argument against it being a fare as mere semantics. |
|
|
|
Page 12 of 29 |
||
