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| Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub (560640) | |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 30 14:41:30 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 30 11:19:19 2008. Correct. The effect of the 63rd St-41 Av tunnel is that the cost of bringing another branch of the LIRR into Manhattan is now measured by comparison to the work which must be accomplished to complete the current plan.Te tunnel boring machines are now under Park Av somewhere, perhaps in the 50s. If a new plan's cost is evaluated, the comparator is starting from the point where work still needs to be done on the current plan. Assuming that Judlau/Dragados completes its tunneling, sometime in May, the compariso would be thusly: New plan (new tunnels with finishing, new station, new track, power etc.) vs. existing plan (finish lining existing tunnels, build station, add track and power). The likelihood that the new plan will be more cost-effective than the existing one is quite small. Not zero, but very small. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Jan 30 15:23:37 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Wed Jan 30 08:01:53 2008. God Knows. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 30 15:27:16 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Edwards! on Wed Jan 30 15:23:37 2008. Bruce Almighty? |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub) |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Jan 30 15:38:33 2008, in response to Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 20:24:18 2008. As promised, I took some pics today:      
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 30 16:13:25 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Jan 30 14:41:19 2008. Yes, but "just about anywhere you put a subway", will the resulting development be such that the increased revenue to the city will be able to pay off the loans to build that subway, as is the case with the west side? |
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Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 30 16:18:50 2008, in response to PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub), posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Jan 30 15:38:33 2008. nice |
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Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub) |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Jan 30 16:34:02 2008, in response to Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub), posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 30 16:18:50 2008. Thanks. I'm glad the rain stopped in time for lunch, and it was a nice walk for me too. This will show the MTA how big their mistake was in dismantling half of Lower Manhattan. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Jan 30 16:48:37 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 30 16:13:25 2008. In many places, I strongly suspect that is the case.Such would likely be true with SAS, the west side 7 extension, a 2 extension to kings plaza, prettymuch anything in queens, and anything better connecting SI to manhattan, as well as a number of bronx expansions(COOP city, 3rd ave, perhaps even Yonkers/Mount Vernon). |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 30 17:03:59 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by R30A on Wed Jan 30 16:48:37 2008. I have nothing to go on, but I feel that if this method isn't being employed elsewhere, it may be because it wouldn't work elsewhere. I feel like the type of development, the density of the development, the land value, and the number of people occupying the area during business hours are all projected as such for the west side, with a subway line, as to create the types and amounts of revenue for the city that would be able to pay off the subway line costs, whereas that wouldn't necessarily be true for the other places you mentioned. |
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Re: Awesome PHOTOS by David (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 30 17:09:51 2008, in response to PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub), posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Jan 30 15:38:33 2008. Thank you, David. These are very helpful. |
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Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 30 17:10:47 2008, in response to Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub), posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Jan 30 16:34:02 2008. Yes, a block is half of lower Manhattan. (It's the new math). |
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Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub) |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Jan 30 19:44:20 2008, in response to PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub), posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Jan 30 15:38:33 2008. Nice photos; shame about the urban vandalism. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Jan 30 19:50:23 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 30 17:03:59 2008. I have nothing to go on, but I feel that if this method isn't being employed elsewhere, it may be because it wouldn't work elsewhere. I feel like the type of development, the density of the development, the land value, and the number of people occupying the area during business hours are all projected as such for the west side, with a subway line, as to create the types and amounts of revenue for the city that would be able to pay off the subway line costs, whereas that wouldn't necessarily be true for the other places you mentioned.No doubt you are right in many cases. Nevertheless, I don't believe for one second that the argument that this type of funding is suitable for *only* the West Side is anything other than circular, used to justify pre-existing public policy decisions, giving them a veneer of objectivity. Ultimately, it reads, "because we said so". It may well be that the conclusions are right, but the argument sucks. |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Jan 30 19:55:32 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 30 12:05:31 2008. No beta males mess with those SCA's!No joke. Just wait for the amazingly dumb idea of First Class cars as the solution to overcrowding on the Lex to get a serious airing when the SCAs discover GCT... |
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Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub) |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Jan 30 20:23:12 2008, in response to PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub), posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Jan 30 15:38:33 2008. Your tax dollars not at work !Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Russ on Wed Jan 30 20:38:13 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Jan 30 19:50:23 2008. The bond financing for the 7 train works because the area was rezoned for 40 million sq.ft. of new commercial and residential real estate. The City was able to get $2 billion in bonds sold because their argument was quantifiable and credible. One of the reasons why the plan is credible is because the demand for more office space in Midtown is real.This type of financing is suitable for any area where the property taxes generated by new real estate development covers the debt service. Unfortunately, this is the only area in New York City where this has worked to date. If this can be replicated in other areas, great! I'll be as happy as anyone else to see more subway construction. I just don't believe that this type of real estate development opportunity will ever be replicated in New York City. |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Jan 30 20:41:09 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 30 11:19:19 2008. Sunk costs should never be considered.Who says you have to consider the sunk cost? You do have compare the cost of completing ESA to alternatives entailing ESA and of course the do-nothing alternative. Well, what do you propose instead to do? Do nothing? OK, then there's nothing happening to increase LIRR capacity into New York. Nothing happening to relieve congestion on the E route, or on the 7 route, from LIRR commuters heading to territory served by ESA. Do something other than ESA? OK, what then? Depending on how large a deviation from present plans, it may require going through the first steps all over again. It might be preferable, though, depending on what the alternative is. But if it requires more regulatory approval, it would almost certainly take longer than the present plan. But I am open to this idea of doing something else. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by murray1575 on Wed Jan 30 20:52:25 2008, in response to Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Mon Jan 28 20:24:18 2008. I am not in the least surprised. A few years ago, the MTA decided to replace the escalator at the Valley Stream LIRR station which was more often than not out of service forcing a long climb up a narrow stairway to the platform. The work took ten months to complete. Ten months to complete one escalator? Now the MTA is rebuilding the station which was just rebuilt in the early 1990's but was allowed to deteriorate since the MTA didn't bother to maintain it. The original station building which was built by the PRR in 1933 and is now little used since the advent of ticket machines was recently demolished. I wonder how long its replacement will take to build and what it will look like ten years after it opens. I hate to be pessimistic but this is SOP for the MTA. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Wed Jan 30 21:02:11 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jan 29 22:40:03 2008. It has to be the most confusing station in the system right now. I know your going to counter with some response but you have to think of the tens if not hundreds of thousand people that pass through there. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Jan 30 21:10:13 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Wed Jan 30 21:02:11 2008. Nobody is saying fulton isnt confusing as hell...What people have said time and time again is that the FTC debacle does NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO FIX THAT! It is EASY to get from the 2/3 to the A/C. FTC doesn't change that. It is EASY to get from the 4/5 to the A/C. FTC doesn't change that. It is HARD to get from the 2/3 to the 4/5. FTC doesn't change that. It is EASY to get from the J/M to the A/C. FTC doesn't change that. It is EASY to get from the SB J/M to the 2/3. FTC doesn't change that. It is HARD to get from the NB J/M to the 2/3. FTC doesn't change that. It is HARD to get from the SB J/M to the 4/5. FTC doesn't change that. It is EASY to get from the NB J/M to the 4/5. FTC doesn't change that. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 30 21:13:04 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Jan 30 19:50:23 2008. Well you brought up the argument about applying this to other areas, when at the beginning of this subthread it was stated that the money from the west side could be used elsewhere, and that's what I was arguing against. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 30 21:15:59 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by R30A on Wed Jan 30 21:10:13 2008. Exactly. Thank you. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 30 21:17:12 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Wed Jan 30 21:02:11 2008. You have a knack for bringing up points that no one is even talking about.Instead, if you desire to respond to my post, why don't you answer the questions I asked Kriston? |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Wed Jan 30 21:31:05 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Mon Jan 28 21:21:07 2008. haha no SI-Manhattan tunnel for you :) |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Jan 30 21:46:16 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Wed Jan 30 21:02:11 2008. False, Canal St complex is the most confusing station because EVERY transfer between two different trunk lines requires the use of the N/Q bridge platform. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 30 21:59:18 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Wed Jan 30 20:38:13 2008. I also agree that super-high density is required. So yes, this was a unique opportunity.Well, actually, downtown Brooklyn might be up to this too - maybe. I say that because I don't think that the chance of Brooklyn pulling this kind of thing off would be zero. |
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Re: Elmer Fudd Alert!! (was re : NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budge...) |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Jan 30 21:59:20 2008, in response to Re: Elmer Fudd Alert!! (was re : NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budge...), posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Jan 30 14:32:42 2008. Duck Season!!! |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 30 22:02:10 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by R30A on Wed Jan 30 21:10:13 2008. All of your statements are false, except for statement 1. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Wed Jan 30 22:06:47 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Grand concourse on Wed Jan 30 21:31:05 2008. No SI-Manhattan tunnel for the next few decades! |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Russ on Wed Jan 30 22:16:20 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 30 21:59:18 2008. Well, actually, downtown Brooklyn might be up to this too - maybe. I say that because I don't think that the chance of Brooklyn pulling this kind of thing off would be zero.I'm not sure about this because Downtown Brooklyn already has robust subway coverage. It could be better, but it is quite good as it is. That brings us to the questions, "is real estate development in Downtown Brooklyn not happening because of inadequate mass transit, and if more was built, would enough real estate be developed to generate property taxes that meet or exceed the debt service of the bonds?" I don't know the answers to these questions, but I'm doubtful that they would suggest that we could repeat what is happening on Manhattan's Far West Side. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 30 22:23:24 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Wed Jan 30 22:16:20 2008. I won't argue. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Jan 30 22:33:08 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Jan 30 12:58:03 2008. So that's why the money has to be used on V train panhandle.Silly idea: Extend the V to a stop at Avenue C to serve the Alphabet City area. Avenue C is chosen primarily to ensure enough distance for a proper gradient in case of future expansion to Brooklyn via tunneling. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Jan 31 04:46:31 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Wed Jan 30 20:38:13 2008. because the area was rezonedExactly. The argument comes down to "because we say so", which is ultimately a form of begging the question. The City was able to get $2 billion in bonds sold because their argument was quantifiable and credible. That has nothing to do with the quality of the argument. This type of financing is suitable for any area where the property taxes generated by new real estate development covers the debt service. Unfortunately, this is the only area in New York City where this has worked to date. It hasn't worked yet. If this can be replicated in other areas, great! I'll be as happy as anyone else to see more subway construction. I just don't believe that this type of real estate development opportunity will ever be replicated in New York City. You are missing the point entirely: The reason petitio principii is considered to be a fallacy is not that the inference is invalid (because any statement is indeed equivalent to itself), but that the argument can be deceptive. A statement cannot prove itself. A premiss must have a different source of reason, ground or evidence for its truth from that of the conclusion. |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Jan 31 05:26:06 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 30 09:14:00 2008. I think you'll have to take a number. Will, Brian and a few other people think they should be Executive Director.I'll leave you the honor of picking which one of us should be Executive Director. If you choose me I will demand the Title of Lux Lucis Obscurum Profundus Nunquam Exaestuo. ;-> |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Jan 31 05:35:30 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 30 09:17:10 2008. This way they'll get a developer to put a new tower up and MTA will collect lease payments for the next 100 years. MTA will get all its money back eventually.The business of the MTA is to bring quality mass transit service to its customers not to do real estate transactions. They may yet make money out of this fiasco but its an unneeded distraction from its core mission. There is something terribly wrong when a bunch of transit amateurs like those of us here on SubChat predicted this all along while the well-paid "professionals" at MTA got caught up in a vanity project. I guess the headline should read "FULTON STREET FAILS TO LAY AN EGG!" |
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Re: FTC Entrance at Fulton and Broadway |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jan 31 05:41:19 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 29 13:41:40 2008. Except:Does it HAVE to be an office tower? We are starting to see more residential towers in the financial district, and perhaps a 40-60 story residential building above what would be the FTC entrance at Fulton and Broadway might be the way to go at this point. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Jan 31 06:10:19 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 30 15:27:16 2008. Morgan Freeman |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Jan 31 06:46:50 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by Russ on Wed Jan 30 22:16:20 2008. I agree with your conclusion. The only other part of NYC that I can think of where such a dramatic increase in revenue could occur with better mass transit is The Hub in The Bronx. |
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Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Jan 31 06:56:38 2008, in response to Re: NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Jan 30 20:41:09 2008. The ULLA (Upper Level Loop Alternative) alternative was panned by the MTA. It was the only other workable alternative. |
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Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub) |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Jan 31 07:17:59 2008, in response to PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub), posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Jan 30 15:38:33 2008. Nice pics. |
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Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Jan 31 07:31:33 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 30 22:02:10 2008. Where is he wrong? I must be missing something. |
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| (561942) | |
Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jan 31 07:40:01 2008, in response to Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub, posted by SMAZ on Thu Jan 31 07:31:33 2008. R30A is not wrong and you're not missing anything. |
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Robert Moses Would Be Proud (Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub) |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jan 31 07:57:35 2008, in response to PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub), posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Jan 30 15:38:33 2008. I work 2 blocks east of that spot. I can tell you that the pix do not tell the entire story. The real situation is far worse.Businesses have been driven out by the MTA directly on Fulton Street and Dey Street. Other businesses not evicted for the construction have closed because of the loss of foot traffic. Tourists simply don't want to walk around there because of the construction zones, dirt, garbage and the difficulty in simply traversing the sidewalks there. They pass through the area quickly on their way to Ground Zero (another construction scandal) or Century 21. The businesses on Broadway between Fulton and Maiden Lane are really suffering, as are the businesses on John between Broadway and William Street. This reminds me of how Robert Moses used to operate - get everyone out first, get the stakes into the ground and then figure out how to do the job. That's what he did to the Bronx neighborhoods that were evicted and destroyed to build the Cross-Bronx even before the funding was secured. The MTA wasted tens of millions on studies and plans. For them to now just blandly state that we aren't going to get what we were promised, and that we may get nothing at all for another two years is just plain SCANDAL. |
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| (561950) | |
Re: Robert Moses Would Be Proud (Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub) |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Jan 31 08:02:48 2008, in response to Robert Moses Would Be Proud (Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub), posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jan 31 07:57:35 2008. At least The Master Builder got his projects finished on time, on budget and functioning the way they were intended. |
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| (561951) | |
Re: Robert Moses Would Be Proud (Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub) |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jan 31 08:07:14 2008, in response to Re: Robert Moses Would Be Proud (Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub), posted by SMAZ on Thu Jan 31 08:02:48 2008. No he didn't. The Cross-Bronx wasn't fully completed per his plans until the mid 1960s, but he felt compelled to throw people out of their homes in the early 1950s. In addition, his construction of the Horace Harding/LIE combo through Queens was a disaster. While he was opening new sections of the highway in Nassau County, his crews would be tearing up the existing roads in Queens in order to widen them.The LIE was obsolete the day it opened and has never been the swift mover of traffic that Moses said it would be. And how exactly has the Cross-Bronx helped Bronx traffic? Ever see the Cross-Bronx not packed beyond capacity? |
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| (561960) | |
Re: Elmer Fudd Alert!! (was re : NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budge...) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Jan 31 08:15:50 2008, in response to Re: Elmer Fudd Alert!! (was re : NYT: MTA Projects May Be Curtailed Re: Budge...), posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Jan 30 21:59:20 2008. Be vewwy vewwy quiet. We're hunting Elmers. He-he-he-he-he-he. |
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| (561963) | |
Re: Robert Moses Would Be Proud (Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit H |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Jan 31 08:33:45 2008, in response to Re: Robert Moses Would Be Proud (Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub), posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jan 31 08:07:14 2008. And how exactly has the Cross-Bronx helped Bronx traffic? Ever see the Cross-Bronx not packed beyond capacity?The idea of diverting traffic that need not be in an urban area through an urban area has been a disaster everywhere it has been tried. Beltways belong outside the urban area. And radials should terminate. |
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| (561966) | |
Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub) |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Thu Jan 31 08:52:57 2008, in response to PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub), posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Jan 30 15:38:33 2008. Great photos you took! To think, I have to usually see this on a regular basis when I go have lunch on Broadway and John Street at Burger King...which is located downstairs underground anyway too!!!-William A. Padron ["One Whopper Jr. please!"] |
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| (561974) | |
Re: Robert Moses Would Be Proud (Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit H |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jan 31 09:23:51 2008, in response to Re: Robert Moses Would Be Proud (Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit Hub), posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jan 31 08:07:14 2008. Ever see the Cross-Bronx not packed beyond capacity?Yes, most of the times I use it. |
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| (561982) | |
Re: Robert Moses Would Be Proud (Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit H |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jan 31 09:43:27 2008, in response to Re: Robert Moses Would Be Proud (Re: PHOTOS (Re: Budget Concerns Threaten To Derail Fulton Transit H, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jan 31 09:23:51 2008. And what times of the day are those? And which sections do you use? |
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