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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by railbus63 on Thu May 3 16:18:27 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Fred G on Thu May 3 14:19:03 2007. That's ridiculous - showing an officer your photos is not 'bending over'. I use a film camera instead of digital but I also carry with me a small album of 3 x 5 photos of transit and railroad vehicles which I've shown to the police. Many officers have no idea about our hobby, even if they work the transit beat, so we should be out there trying to educate them instaed of invoking the Fourth Amendment when they ask to look at our digital pics. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 3 16:28:41 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by LA Blue Line on Thu May 3 16:15:52 2007. I know :(Fortunately for me, all of my encounters with the NYPD have ended with me continuing my photography right where I left off. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 3 16:31:10 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by railbus63 on Thu May 3 16:18:27 2007. It certainly is bending over. There's no reason we should have to show the police what is on our camera. If we want to, fine, but we don't have to. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu May 3 16:45:13 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by railbus63 on Thu May 3 16:18:27 2007. I was referring to the tone of your whole post, not just showing them the photos. I've showed officers some of the photos on my LCD screen (and proudly lol) but they didn't take my camera away.I use a film camera instead of digital I see. I agree with you that we should educate them and that's what we try to do. The best thing you can do is to explain the why of your choosing where you are; the worst thing is just blurting out a curt "taking photos". The dynamic changes each encounter since sometimes we meet good cops and sometimes we meet bad cops. Lately it's been hearing them "Sir?" "Sir? You can't take pictures here" me "Oh? Why is that?" them "Since 9/11; you can't take photos in the subway" me "I'm sorry but I beg to differ; that Photoban idea was shot down over a year ago" them "Well I'm sorry, sir, you can't take photos here" me "I happen to have a copy of that part o the subway rules [of conduct] with me and it says that photography is allowed. Now I'm not with the bad guys and if it bugs you personally that I take pics here I'll leave but I dunno about this not allowed stuff. It's from the MTA website and I have it in my front [vest] pocket; I'm not drawing a weapon." Then I show them the thang and they look at it, hand it back and usually bid me a good day, we shake hands, all is well. Once in a while they just give it back and storm off. That's basically been the tone of my encounters. Nilet's was a lot worse and by his account the cops were out of line, not him. your pal, Fred |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Thu May 3 17:11:00 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Fred G on Thu May 3 16:45:13 2007. ...the worst thing is just blurting out a curt "taking photos".You told me that same thing a year ago when that's almost exactly what I told a cop. Until you clued me in, it never even occurred to me that I probably came across as smart ass. Hey, he asked what I was doing and I told him. lol |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 17:19:37 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Fred G on Thu May 3 14:19:03 2007. I can see merit in both approaches. Pragmatism sometimes helps you navigate through specific situations. Police officers come in all personalities, just like the rest of us, and they can have good days and bad days, say stupid things one day and really smart things the rest of the week.I'm not disagreeing with your post at all. Im just saying each situation involves a judgment call by both sides. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu May 3 17:23:34 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by LA Blue Line on Thu May 3 17:11:00 2007. Oh so it is you! I forgot you changed your handle here.Yeah, and you didn't lie to him lol. your pal, Fred |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu May 3 17:40:42 2007, in response to How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by railbus63 on Thu May 3 13:07:29 2007. railbus63,I had an incident that was reported here a couple of months ago. If you didn't read the post, the incident transpired at Broadway-Myrtle Ave. station. I was approached by two plain clothes officers and asked what I was doing. In a split second I decided to be as cooperative and truthful as possible. I explained that I photograph as a hobby and that I publish a subway calendar that's marketed at the Transit Museum. I was nice about it and the tone in my voice was upbeat and not condescending. So there was no turning over of film or camera, no handcuffs or embarrassing display. In the end I stated "Okay, I'll pack up and leave." And that's what I did, end of incident. Now there are those on this board that may call me a sellout or ass kisser. I don't care, I wasn't in handcuffs and I went home with my camera and film inside intact. Now why was Mr. Nilet given the shaft. I don't know, since I don't know what he looks like maybe it's was his age or how he was dressed. I don't know, I am 55 years old and have mostly gray hair. I am as threatening to a police as Felix Unger ! Three weeks ago, there was an ERA 207th St. shop tour. First I made a stop at 125th St. on the #1 and took some pics. No one questioned me and it was onto 207th St. station. After taking some pics a TA employee across the platform wearing a vest questioned me. I told him of my hobby, but he shot me down stating that no photography was permitted. For a split second I was felt like telling him off but put my camera away and said "I'll pack up and leave." And that's what i did. I didn't want to risk missing the tour having the police called on me. So I made the shop tour without incident. Now what could my secret be ? There are no signs posted about the prohibiting of photography. So if there are no signs, how would I know that? If I tell an employee or police officer that "I didn't know that" and state "I'll pack up and leave". Some here will say that I was lucky, while others will say I caved in. But in the nutshell if I caught more flies with honey then vinegar, maybe things would have a different twist if I became confrontational. I intend to keep on photographing the subways. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu May 3 17:51:14 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Newkirk Images on Thu May 3 17:40:42 2007. You encouraged that TA employee to tell someone else that photography isn't allowed.your pal, Fred |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu May 3 18:11:57 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by TunnelRat on Thu May 3 15:17:16 2007. However, the PBA won't even work with the city in arbitration to get the pay rate raised, so that the NYPD doesn't have to hire problem people. Many want to work, but not for the pittance that the starting rate is. (The second-lowest paid officers in the region are, ironically, the MTA Police. The Port Authority is about in the middle.) |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 18:17:47 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Fred G on Thu May 3 17:51:14 2007. Thatr's true, but it hasn't stopped him from doing his photography. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 18:18:41 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Newkirk Images on Thu May 3 17:40:42 2007. Do you carry one of your calendars with you? It occurred to me that when they approach you, showing them the calendar might impress them sufficiently to leave you alone. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu May 3 18:22:57 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 18:17:47 2007. He packed up and left; I'd call that stopping.your pal, Fred |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu May 3 18:23:47 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Newkirk Images on Thu May 3 17:40:42 2007. However, at the same time, I would have asked (politely) for a uniformed officer just in case (to stand by and watch)...because people have used fake badges to commit robberies or worse...a murder in Long Island a few years ago was committed by a career criminal posing as a plainclothes officer. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 3 18:44:08 2007, in response to How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by railbus63 on Thu May 3 13:07:29 2007.  But, geez, you could've avoided that outcome with a little common sense. How so? I agreed to leave, I did leave, they chased after me after I left on their instructions. You crossed the line when you accused the officers of unreasonable search and seizure when all they were doing was looking at the photos on your camera. Looking at my photos is a search. I did not consent to the search. "We suspect you're going to do something illegal" does not constitute probable cause. Therefore, the search was illegal. Look at the situation from their point of view - why did you have a problem with them looking at all of your pics? Did you have something on that camera that you didn't want them to see? Refusal to consent to a search cannot constitute probable cause. Would you allow a random stranger to look through your pictures? I get scared when people say: "Why bother with your constitutional rights? If you're not doing anything wrong, you won't get in trouble, right?" You then compounded this by recording their badge numbers - was that really necessary? I have a right to record their badge numbers, and yes, it was necessary. Up to that point, they had done nothing wrong that I can see, and now you've basically told them that you're going to report them. I didn't tell them I was going to report them, but they did illegally order me to stop a legal activity and leave a public place. So if you did in fact come across cops who are willing to break the rules, you just got on their bad side. Why should I be obligated to appease someone just because (s)he is willing to break the rules? The result was an embarrassing episode of being handcuffed in public and having your camera taken away and the photos somehow lost. Wouldn't it have been preferable if you addressed your concerns about being told not to take photos after the fact with the NYPD? You still would have had your pics and video. You said I should report it to the NYPD, yet you also said I shouldn't record their badge numbers... These officers will no doubt have detailed reports which justify their decision to stop you on the platform and later putting you in cuffs. If they made false reports, they could get in trouble. I'd need to track down the eyewitnesses on the scene, but it's not completely impossible. If they did delete your photos, then they may well say that the photos were still in the camera when they gave it back to you. Well, there are a few avenues of proof I could use. 1. The photos are time stamped with EXIF data (well, the video of me re-recording badge numbers). Perhaps the deleted photos will be time stamped with delete time when I recover them or the undelete program will unearth it. This may contrast with their own reports of when they left me. 2. I don't know where she took the camera, but there could be eyewitnesses. There were certainly plenty of TA workers on the street. 3. She was gone a long time, and her partner said that she was calling a sergeant. Perhaps she was given orders from above to delete, in which case a higher-up could be held responsible. 4. If I can track down people on the scene, I may have an eyewitness to my reaction when I saw the photos gone (and her reaction to that.) You have no proof that it was the NYPD that deleted these photos. I can work on it. Absent any concrete proof of wrongdoing, it will come down to the word of two uniformed police officers against your word. Few of us will win that encounter. ...and as many eyewitnesses as I can find. Combined with some time stamp evidence. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 3 18:50:49 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BMTLines on Thu May 3 14:06:46 2007. What if he did - what if the other pictures were x-rated pics of him and his girlfriend?I wish. :( |
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Another Update: The CCRB Called |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 3 18:53:11 2007, in response to ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 20:42:32 2007. OK, the CCRB called back regarding my complaint, and I've scheduled a time to go down to them. The investigator explained the difference between mediation and investigation, and that if my case is eligible for mediation, I could go with that. I said I couldn't decide and would need some outside advice first. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BIE on Thu May 3 18:58:29 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by TunnelRat on Thu May 3 15:17:16 2007. The FLSA should still apply, giving time and a half after 40 hours. Comp time needs to GO AWAY |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 19:03:15 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Nilet on Thu May 3 18:44:08 2007. There's nothing inherently wromng with what you did.New York state law requires police officers to supply you with their names and shield numbers during any official encounter. You should be told which precinct or district they serve and the stationhouse's address and direct phone line (of course, once you know which precinct or district it is, you can easily look up the address, phone, name of commanding officer and so on. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BIE on Thu May 3 19:07:31 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by AMoreira81 on Thu May 3 18:11:57 2007. Pay rates for NYC police are a SHAM. It is in the best interest of the citizens to insure that cops are well paid. Competition for jobs will insure QUALITY. A tiny department upstate just announced an opening for an officer at the bottom pay tier for their department at a wage of $39,000/year. This is a fair amount for a small moderate income village. New York City cops should START at $50,000/yr to achieve parity with this village, taking cost of living into account. AIUI, new NYPD academy graduates make less than $25,000/yr. THIS NEEDS TO CHANGE. |
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Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 19:14:30 2007, in response to Another Update: The CCRB Called, posted by Nilet on Thu May 3 18:53:11 2007. Talk to a lawyer.Good luck. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu May 3 20:28:18 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Fred G on Thu May 3 17:51:14 2007. You encouraged that TA employee to tell someone else that photography isn't allowed.You can look at it that way, but to me I left before he can call Control and request police for a "suspicious character." If I stayed in defiance, the police would have arrived and "Nilet" situation would have unfolded with me forking over my film. I saw this employee a few minutes earlier, I was at the north end of the platform, and he didn't say anything. But when I moved to the south end of the northbound platform, he questioned me. I guess the best advice is to get a shot or two and get out. I had to be at Bway-Myrtle at least 30 minutes, maybe a T/O banged me in. When I was stopped the two plain clothes officers, they stated that they were observing me before I was approached. So if I took a pic or two I would have been gone and maybe they wouldn't have stopped me. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu May 3 20:33:02 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 18:18:41 2007. Do you carry one of your calendars with you? It occurred to me that when they approach you, showing them the calendar might impress them sufficiently to leave you alone.The camera bag I use all the time is a small one so I would have to fold it in half. My other camera bag is bigger and can slip one in the back pouch with no problem. But the larger bag is bulkier. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu May 3 20:36:51 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by AMoreira81 on Thu May 3 18:23:47 2007. However, at the same time, I would have asked (politely) for a uniformed officer just in case (to stand by and watch)...If my memory serves me correct, both plain clothes officers at Bway-Myrtle had their shields on neck chains displayed openly. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu May 3 20:41:54 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Newkirk Images on Thu May 3 20:28:18 2007. Oh, nobody's talking about staying simply to defy them. My situation has been a special shot I wanted or sun angle, something that for photographic reasons I felt I needed to be there. Other times it's right after I look through the lens to set up the shot without taking a photo! In that case I'll remind them of the actual rules.I'm not advocating making a scene or adding unnecessary drama. If you have your 4 shots of the R46 coming up the hill at Smith-9th, you're probably going to leave anyway. But if not, stand your ground and use finesse to get your shots. And then leave. In a day's shooting I usually educate at least one person that photography is legal and allowed. 10 people doing that would educate 10 people. And so it goes... your pal, Fred PS Careful about showing calendars; they might zap you for a permit for commercial photos :( |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Thu May 3 20:56:34 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BIE on Thu May 3 18:58:29 2007. what do you consider comp.time for a cop? |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BIE on Thu May 3 21:02:10 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by TunnelRat on Thu May 3 20:56:34 2007. Comp time is time off given to public employees who work overtime rather than paying them time and a half. It is a bad deal for the employee. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Thu May 3 21:10:09 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BIE on Thu May 3 21:02:10 2007. A friend of mine is a captain,nypd.He has over 2 years of comp.time owed him. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BIE on Thu May 3 21:12:33 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by TunnelRat on Thu May 3 21:10:09 2007. My sympathies to him. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu May 3 21:27:03 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Newkirk Images on Thu May 3 20:36:51 2007. That is extremely rare...they are usuallu concealed. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 21:27:14 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Newkirk Images on Thu May 3 20:33:02 2007. Understood.It is a very impressive calendar. It makes you a published author. It has cachet. Anyway, you are doing whatever feels good to you. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 3 21:29:28 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Fred G on Thu May 3 20:41:54 2007. I thought a commercial photography shoot is something that involves more than just a person and a camera. I don't think the fact that a couple photos he takes per year end up in a calendar that he publishes means that he would need a commercial photography permit. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 3 21:49:58 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by AMoreira81 on Thu May 3 18:23:47 2007. If you're stopped by a plainclothes cop, I think you have the right to demand to see a police ID as well as a shield to verify that they're really cops. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by chuchubob on Thu May 3 21:54:16 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by TunnelRat on Thu May 3 21:10:09 2007. Is he aware that photography of MTA is legal? |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 3 22:03:26 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Newkirk Images on Thu May 3 20:28:18 2007. If I stayed in defiance, the police would have arrived and "Nilet" situation would have unfolded with me forking over my film.I highly doubt that. All the times the uniformed NYPD has stopped me, and most times they've stopped others here, from what I have heard, the situations ended quickly and amicably. What happened to Nilet is still thankfully the exception to the rule. I really don't think you have much to worry about. I guess the best advice is to get a shot or two and get out. Considering that photography is legal, I don't see why that is good advice. My advice is to stay as long as you need to in order to accomplish what you went there to do. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by JPC on Fri May 4 00:43:19 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Fred G on Thu May 3 08:25:09 2007. I don't know if officers are trained to do that, but if you work in a position where almost everybody you interact with lies through their teeth (i.e. to get out of a ticket), then eventually you stop listening to peoples' excuses (because 99% of them are lies), even though 1% of the time the person might be telling the truth.So I don't blame the officer so much (as an EMT I deal with the same thing, albeit to a lesser extent - Have you been drinking tonight? Ohhhh, uhmmm nooo *burp* well, maaaybe, I ha *burp* had one...) as I do the hordes of other people who habitually lie and cause officers to develop this thick skin. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri May 4 01:51:08 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by JPC on Thu May 3 08:16:19 2007. THe officer is going to claim that you returned to do more photography after being ordered to leave. I assume you attempted to explain why you turned around, but the cop would hear none of it (typical cop behavior). The officers can't make this claim without lying through their teeth. They came after me while I was clearly in the process of obeying their orders, i.e., while I was walking out of the station. I attempted to leave via the wrong exit, noticed the signs, went down, went to the correct exit, and was walking towards the correct exit when the officers returned. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri May 4 02:43:00 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by AMoreira81 on Thu May 3 14:28:53 2007. A judge can still issue an injunction against the NYPD while the appeals run their couse. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri May 4 02:48:35 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 17:19:37 2007. We all do or say stupid things, but when one is wearing the uniform of the NYPD or any other police agency, they are no longer representing themselves. They are representing the department and the people as a whole. It's called professionalism and training. According to Nilet's account, those two cops lacked both. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri May 4 02:53:40 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BIE on Thu May 3 14:32:59 2007. The best way to have good and professional cops is for them to have a strong and involved union like PBA, otherwise they will be working for peanuts and resorting to bribes and corruption like in Third World countries where the police is in fact a racket. |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri May 4 03:21:27 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by JPC on Fri May 4 00:43:19 2007. Good point, thanks. I guess I forgot there are people out there worse than me :Pyour pal, Fred |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri May 4 03:24:56 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 17:19:37 2007. Yes, somewhere else in this thread I mentioned finesse, which is key to this. It's still the same old analyze, adapt, overcome.your pal, Fred |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri May 4 03:41:59 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 3 21:29:28 2007. I stand corrected, maybe I'm getting my transit agencies mixed up.your pal, Fred |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by sic transit gloria on Fri May 4 04:00:50 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Nilet on Thu May 3 18:44:08 2007. "We suspect you're going to do something illegal does not constitute probable cause"It is not probable cause, but all police need is reasonable suspicion in order to stop and question you, and / or frisk and handcuff you whetheror not you end up getting arrested. The combination of factors including the complaint by others that you were suspicious, the cops' attitudes, yoor look, and your attitude is probably what caused your encounter to end as it did |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 4 04:33:42 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Fred G on Fri May 4 03:41:59 2007. I don't want to start a political discussion, but if Rudy is headed towards the top of the heap, maybe it's time to get active beyond "ACLU matters" and finally force a more realistic look at what constitutes "terrorism" and what DOESN'T. As long as the "powers that be" can continue to use this as justification for ridiculous restrictions on the wrong people, then we ALL lose. :(I submit that politicians are becoming terrorists, and silly misguided policies that result in people who clearly have no reason to be lumped in with the bad guys become so simply on a basis of misguided policies. I reiterate a point I made back in September of 2001 about all this - "the terrorists have ALREADY collected any materials they may need in order to carry out an attack and no real "new construction" has occurred which would change the validity of photographs, track maps and other information which wasn't already in wide dissemination back in the middle 1990's. I further submit that there's absolutely no rational basis for any of what's going on other than political gain for a party that has nothing better to offer than FEAR. :( |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri May 4 05:10:05 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by sic transit gloria on Fri May 4 04:00:50 2007. "We suspect you're going to do something illegal does not constitute probable cause" It is not probable cause, but all police need is reasonable suspicion in order to stop and question you, and / or frisk and handcuff you whetheror not you end up getting arrested. 1. It's not even enough to count as reasonable suspicion; even that requires more than a mere hunch. 2. They took the camera by force and deleted the pics. That's a search and seizure, and that does require probable cause. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri May 4 05:13:50 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 3 22:03:26 2007. His points are well made and we all do what we feel comfortable doing. However, I take exception to someone crowing about what a smart thing they did when in reality all they did was run away.your pal, Fred |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri May 4 05:42:39 2007, in response to ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Nilet on Sun Apr 29 20:42:32 2007. you are required to give them**name** **rank** **ser. #** ....... in other words valid id card thats it !!! no other information ! be polite dont talk shut up name only thats it !! and just look at them quietly and peaceful slow moving silent no talking eye contact only do not show any emotions go blank and bland nothing else ............. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri May 4 05:46:29 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu May 3 13:38:35 2007. you are required to give them**name** **rank** **ser. #** ....... in other words valid id card thats it !!! no other information ! be polite dont talk shut up name only thats it !! and just look at them quietly and peaceful slow moving silent no talking eye contact only do not show any emotions go blank and bland nothing else ................................. if you have to talk would you please leave my camera alone would you please giv e me my camera back would you pleaee not handle my camera in any way ? i am asking you to give me my camera back please ? ............................ firm but do not yell or act agressive but firm and level |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BMTLines on Fri May 4 07:39:06 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 17:19:37 2007. I can see merit in both approaches. Pragmatism sometimes helps you navigate through specific situationsI am generally non-confrontational with police or other authorities in person but I have a "poison pen". I write to the mayor's office, Peter Vallone and both newspapers every time someone in authority even looks at me the wrong way. I've complained about everything from rush hour police roadblocks to street closings that were not announced on the radio, etc. Someone reads these letters - I have received phone calls in response to them where I get to voice my grievances. One time I was ticketed for parking at a broken meter - trouble was every meter on the block was broken. I called Peter Vallone's office and spoke to his secretary about the situation. Could have been coincidental but the VERY NEXT DAY repair crews were sent to repair the meters. If these cops had stopped me from taking pictures I probably would have backed off BUT that would not have been the end of it. That's when my letter writing begins - naming names and badge numbers etc - and I am very good at adding colorful adjectives to their facial expressions and tone of voice and anything else that offended me... |
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