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| (1627280) | |
Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by irtredbirdr33 on Mon Nov 13 07:37:43 2023 Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 1929 – from The Book of First Runs PCC prototype Model A, car 5200 is placed in service on the Dekalb Avenue. The car was built by the Twin Coach Company to test the new PCC technology. The tests continued until 1935. The car was retired on February 7, 1939 and subsequently scrapped. Source: Mr. Bernard Linder 1970 – from The Book of Last Runs All R-1/9’s are ordered off the “EE” Queens-Broadway Local. Hereafter most service will be provided by R-16’s with some R-38’s and R-40M’s. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1627315) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 13 18:07:21 2023, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Mon Nov 13 07:37:43 2023. The removal of R-1/9s from the EE was the result of a EE breaking down in the 60th St tube after being taken out of service for door problems at Lex Ave. New operating procedures were instituted regarding BO trains in river tubes as well as banning R-1/9s from the EE. The Ironic thing was that the BO train that caused the problem was a SMEE, I believe an R-16. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 13 18:30:31 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 13 18:07:21 2023. Did those people even know all the car types? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by zac on Mon Nov 13 19:23:11 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Nov 13 18:30:31 2023. I'm sure they did. The R9s were the last of the pre-WWII cars and looked it and smelled like it. But here's the thing I bring up every now and then, in 1970 the last of the R9s were only 30 years old. The oldest of them, the R1s were already being retired, and the R4s too, but the newer ones weren't all that old but seemed to be to most riders. The problem was the design hadn't changed at all in the 10 years of the IND openings, and the incandescent lights. They just looked old fashioned.Also, by 1967 at the time of Chrystie St, the pre-war BMT cars were gone from the southern division. After Chrystie the R1/9s started appearing where all the other old cars had disappeared about 2-3 years prior. I'm sure whoever was in charge of the Broadway line said something to the effect of "get those old things off'a here!" |
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| (1627330) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by gbs on Mon Nov 13 20:26:30 2023, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Mon Nov 13 07:37:43 2023. ...service will be provided by R-16’s with some R-38’s and R-40M’s    When the EE was finally eliminated and the N became the second Queens Blvd local, I thought we'd get R32s on QB for the first time. Instead, the N got those old R16s:  
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| (1627352) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 14 05:34:33 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by gbs on Mon Nov 13 20:26:30 2023. Hold on..The R46s were the opening cars for the N line extension to Continental Ave. SOME R16s stayed in Queens, but most of them went back to the East to the LL Canarsie line to replace the R1/9 that were going bye bye. The R32s were moved to the new CC Rockaway extended line..to replace its old R1/9 cars. |
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| (1627353) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Nov 14 07:19:00 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by zac on Mon Nov 13 19:23:11 2023. The problem was the design hadn't changed at all in the 10 years of the IND openings, and the incandescent lights. They just looked old fashioned.Too bad the current "Day Light" type of screw-in LED bulbs weren't available back then. What an eye-opener that would have been. How many bulb sockets are in the R 1/9 car? Maybe the Transit Museum could try and see what it would look like?  |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by zac on Tue Nov 14 09:56:46 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Nov 14 07:19:00 2023. Weren't the bulbs reverse threaded? If that is the case they'd need to be made and that would be very expensive. |
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| (1627380) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 14 10:52:09 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by zac on Mon Nov 13 19:23:11 2023. Also, even though the train that caused the problem wasn;'t an Arnine (or R9), maybe it was felt that those cars had more potential for trouble?But here's a funny thing- during the 2004 Centennial celebrations, Arnines again ran through the 60th Street tunnel! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 14 10:53:07 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Nov 14 07:19:00 2023. Can the wiring in those cars support LED bulbs? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Nov 14 11:24:01 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by zac on Tue Nov 14 09:56:46 2023. Weren't the bulbs reverse threaded? If that is the case they'd need to be made and that would be very expensive.I don't know. If so, for just one TM car would be expensive if not made at all. I searched, but couldn't find any. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Nov 14 11:27:39 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Nov 14 11:24:01 2023. So, where do all of the train museums get their bulbs?Do they change out the sockets to take regular screw in bulbs? How do they screw? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Nov 14 11:32:01 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 14 10:53:07 2023. The replacement bulbs I have for home use a much lower wattage.An incandescent bulb of 60 watts is replaced by an led with 13 watts. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 14 11:50:17 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by zac on Tue Nov 14 09:56:46 2023. Or they could just replace the sockets. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Tue Nov 14 13:01:34 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Nov 14 11:27:39 2023. MISSIONARY. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Q4 on Tue Nov 14 15:01:15 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by gbs on Mon Nov 13 20:26:30 2023. What year did they eliminate the EE? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 14 15:03:54 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Q4 on Tue Nov 14 15:01:15 2023. 1976. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by gbs on Tue Nov 14 18:03:56 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 14 05:34:33 2023. There are no 1976 photos of R46 N trains on Queens Blvd on nycsubway.org. I remember seeing the R16 N trains on QB when the N replaced the EE in 1976. October, 1976: This photo of a 4-car R46 N train was taken 9/6/1976, which was Monday, Labor Day, so the train would not have gone to Forest Hills. It's the only 1976 R46 N photo on the site.  All the other 1976 R46 photos are E, F, GG, and S trains. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 14 19:35:07 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Nov 14 10:52:09 2023. And they howled ass! |
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| (1627436) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 14 19:37:01 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by zac on Tue Nov 14 09:56:46 2023. The emergency lights were reverse threaded. They figured the regular bulbs would be on all the time and that their heat alone would discourage bulb snatching. |
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| (1627440) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Nov 14 20:07:27 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Nov 14 11:32:01 2023. Back in the day, left hand thread bulbs were a volume specialty item. The effort to replace the sockets would be fairly easy--just tedious. |
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| (1627441) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 14 20:16:49 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Nov 14 19:37:01 2023. I never understood that. Wouldn’t bulb thieves just carry a towel, or were they just protecting against opportunistic theft? |
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| (1627445) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 14 21:10:08 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by gbs on Tue Nov 14 18:03:56 2023. So, are you saying that my memory of such events are faulty?I have family members that live in Queensbridge Houses 41 Ave side. 63rd st was nowhere near complete then, and the station that would become a mainstay of the neighborhood (21st St Queensbridge) just began construction. The Queensboro Plaza station was the closest thing we had at the time, served by the RR and 7 lines. Up the street on Jackson Ave was the Queens Plaza station,served by the E F GG and N. Since the GG was closer to my home at the time, I usually took that train to Long Island City, and walked to 41st Ave/21st St. I was there the very first day of the service changes, and hopped on a brand spanking new R46S in N service. As a matter of fact,there were very few trains I remember that weren't R46S. While I Did ride an R16 on the N,most of the cars were in GG service. The Majority of the fleet, however, were being transferred back to the East for LL service.. and all remaining R1/9 were placed in J service from then on,as they were about to go bye bye for good. I know what I speak of, since I was there. |
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| (1627448) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 14 21:19:20 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Q4 on Tue Nov 14 15:01:15 2023. 1976. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Nov 14 22:28:09 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 14 20:16:49 2023. My understanding was that the whole IND was reverse threaded. Think about low ceilings in places where a tall person could easily reach the bulbs. Think of the poverty rate in the Depression. |
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| (1627461) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 15 04:03:29 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Nov 14 22:28:09 2023. R-1/9 bulbs were not reverse threaded.Unlike the IRT and BMT prewar cars which had their lights in several groups of 5 120V bulbs in series, R-1/9s had all 30 bulbs in the cars in one single 600V series circuit so each bulb was only 30V. Putting a bulb like that in a 120V household lamp would burn it out instantly. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Nov 15 15:44:28 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by randyo on Wed Nov 15 04:03:29 2023. Thanks forthe correction. Am I correct about the general IND staion lamps? |
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| (1627483) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Q4 on Wed Nov 15 16:06:11 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 14 15:03:54 2023. Thank you. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Q4 on Wed Nov 15 16:48:01 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 14 21:19:20 2023. Thanks |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 15 17:32:02 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 14 05:34:33 2023. A few R-44s even made it onto the N at the time. I rode one home one afternoon. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 15 17:41:55 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Nov 14 11:32:01 2023. R-1/9 bulbs are 100W. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Nov 15 18:11:29 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by randyo on Wed Nov 15 17:41:55 2023. Thank you. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 15 18:42:17 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by randyo on Wed Nov 15 04:03:29 2023. I remember Kev talking about a ballast resistor that dropped the remaining 120V in each sign box (two bulbs apiece for the upper and lower destination signs). |
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| (1627492) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 15 18:49:37 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by randyo on Wed Nov 15 17:41:55 2023. I put two 75-watt bulbs in the lower destination sign curcuit on my IND signbox and the illumination isn't bad. I left the wiring as is - in series. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 15 18:50:23 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Tue Nov 14 21:19:20 2023. August 27, 1976, to be exact. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Nov 15 19:19:07 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 15 18:49:37 2023. my IND boxes (bought from Transit Museum store in 76, had no wiring. unprotypically I arranged a small fluorescent which evenly lights the sign. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Nov 15 20:55:10 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by gbs on Tue Nov 14 18:03:56 2023. I also don't believe you, when you say that would be the "Only photo" of an R46 N train from back in the day, since clearly there would be historical reference.You are basically lying. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 16 00:14:32 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 15 18:49:37 2023. The end signs are not wired with the interior car body lights. They are standard 120V bulbs wired in series, the 2 marker light bulbs, 2 route sign bulbs and the single LCL/EXP sign in the end bonnet. The route sign bulbs are powered by the battery circuit and like the running lights are 32V. There are 4 side sign bulbs 2 for each side of the car wired in series with a ballast resistor to make up for the lack of a 5th bulb in the circuit. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 16 00:17:24 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 15 18:42:17 2023. Correct. I made reference to that in my post. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 16 00:55:29 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Wed Nov 15 20:55:10 2023. There were so many R-46s on the N that the TA a few years lated decided to experiment with midday 4 car trains of R-46 Ns. At the time all full service Ns were 8 cars even 60 footers. Anticipating more trains of R-46s that actually operated, the service pattern was that between rush hours, all GGs which were R-10s at the time were to be laid up solid and 8 car N trains of R-46s were to be relayed after the AM rush and cut on the S/B with 4 cars operating as an N and 4 cars as a GG. Just before the start of the PM rush a N/B arriving GG was to couple to a N/B arriving N , the 8 cars relayed for a S/B N and an 8 car R-10 GG put in service for the S/B. Passenger loading allowed for a half 600 ft train to operate but no 4 60 footers. As a result, often there were many 4 car trains of R-32s operating midday which were severely overcrowded. There were often problems getting the right trains in the right order for the PM rush so one evening when I was a trainmaster assigned to Queens I was sent to Continental to report on how much of a disaster that service pattern was so that changing it could be recommended. Unfortunately, the day that I went there, the operation went so smoothly and as intended that it was impossibnle to submit a negative report. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Q4 on Thu Nov 16 09:02:26 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 16 00:55:29 2023. Randyo, they knew you were coming😉 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Q4 on Thu Nov 16 09:09:06 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Nov 15 18:50:23 2023. Thanks |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Nov 16 10:40:49 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 16 00:55:29 2023. I remember the midday 4 car Sea Beaches, West Ends Brightin locals |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 16 12:39:53 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 16 00:55:29 2023. I thought midday short trains were ridiculous.The East was good for that, with 4 car J and M trains. Overcrowding was an understatement. Evenings, the QJ ran 6 car trains, and the J kept it's full trains someone thought short trains saved "money". How much did it really save, when you had to pay those extras to cut and put together trains at terminals? Use to watch them at 168th st Jamaica Ave station doing this..they didn't seem to have a problem with it, since it was a paycheck. The Only redemption here is the TA finally came to its senses, and stopped cutting trains. It didn't serve a purpose, and waste time and effort. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Nov 16 13:03:14 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 16 12:39:53 2023. I think some of those switchmen were new guys breaking in, before operating in revenue service.Others might simply have had seniority. Shorter trains were easier to patrol too. Safe for passengers. I agree they didn't save much money on mileage. Any savings were offset by labor. Overnight and weekend short trains were sufficient enough to save money. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Nov 17 08:05:45 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Thu Nov 16 12:39:53 2023. Correct me, but didn't late-night full-length trains run with the rear half, locked out. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Nov 17 18:50:05 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Avid Reader on Fri Nov 17 08:05:45 2023. They did that on the Flushing Line for awhile in the mid 70s |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Nov 17 21:09:31 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Nov 17 18:50:05 2023. And back in the 60s, IND trains ran with the last two cars cut out during ths late hours. Conductors would yell, "Move up, move up!" to people attempting to board the last two cars. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Nov 18 13:49:01 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Avid Reader on Fri Nov 17 08:05:45 2023. True.Some Did. How ever, the A ran 6 car trains to Lefferts overnight, and so did the D. The E ran full trains for awhile, just like the F. I remember D trains with the half the trains running dark,, locked out. Granted,it Was the "bad ol days", and the MTA was trying to get a handle on the criminal activity at the time. Reducing the scope of the surface was a another attempt. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Nov 18 20:12:59 2023, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 13, posted by Edwards! on Sat Nov 18 13:49:01 2023. I worked midnights on the D in the summer pick of 1982. During the week we ran 4 cars overnight with 6 cars overnight on weekends. |
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