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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 11:57:57 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 6 11:42:42 2011. Well obviously. An "Applebees" in a Black neighborhood will have more Black workers than an Applebees in a white neighborhood. Most of the franchise restaurants I go to are usually in "white neighborhoods", so usually the servers are white.However, a few months ago I ate with some friends at the TGI Fridays in Central Islip on Carleton Ave, which is a Black/Hispanic neighborhood, and most of the servers were Black or Hispanic. Even the bartender was Black. But it makes sense. I would hope places like these would hire people "from the neighborhood" they are a part of, and apparently they do in most cases. That explains the different views, I simply just go to restaurants located in different areas than the ones you go to. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 6 11:59:57 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 11:56:41 2011. Yes, I didn't initially see your statement about "in the city". But again, remember, "the city" is diverse, and the neighborhoods mentioned reflect those who work in the restaurants (especially in reference to Atlantic). As for Times Square, that's an artificial environment anyway, and probably none of the people that work their "live" in the immediate neighborhood anyway. But it's workers do still show a diverse city, which NY is. |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon Jun 6 12:05:50 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 11:56:41 2011. I've been to the Applebee's in Atlantic Terminal and the one at Flatbush & DeKalb, and most of the workers at both are black and hispanic, same with the TGI Fridays and Dave & Buster's I went to in Times Square. The Applebee's I went to in Bricktown Staten Island however was white, but that part of Staten Island resembles the suburbs more than it does the rest of the city.Spotted at a T.G.I.F's in Scrasdale... African American Latin and White workers... |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 6 12:07:20 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Railman718 on Mon Jun 6 12:05:50 2011. Same with the T.G.I.F at the South Shore mall. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 12:16:10 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 6 11:54:39 2011. ??? It's called STEALING. We "all" want some "extra" money, but that is NOT the way to do it. And what really pissed me off was how he was "so" nice to her to (as she was such a doll herself), and then he stabbed her in the back.He was young though and probably didn't care if it was stealing. Yes, that's why I initially decided not to make an issue out of it, as she was SO sweet, and her personality would have been just crushed if she knew what this kid did to her. It would have been almost as if the kid shot her, I can't explain it, but that's definitely the way it was....that's what made me bite my tongue. But then again, she was then out $20. It was the lesser of two evils, in my FIRST thought. But I probably should have said something. Or at least after she left said something to the kid that I noticed what he did. I also would have said to him that I wouldn't have gone to the management, but he should watch what he was doing, as he was so young, and I really didn't want him losing his job. People see, even if you think they don't. By saying something however, I may have saved his job in the future, as people like this ALWAYS eventually get caught. I am SURE he's not working there anymore. Yes, saying something to him like "I saw what you did but I'm not going to tell your boss" after she left would have been the best thing and probably would have been the best way to teach him a lesson, but that didn't happen and what was probably a good day for her just continued on, I still wouldn't worry about it. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 12:17:20 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Railman718 on Mon Jun 6 12:05:50 2011. I just looked that location up and it's in the middle of White Plains, Yonkers, and Mount Vernon, all of which have a considerable minority population. |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon Jun 6 12:18:53 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 12:17:20 2011. Yes but the place is in where again? |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 12:18:59 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 6 12:07:20 2011. Blacks and Hispanics make up almost 40% of Bay Shore's population. When I think of Bay Shore I think of it as a white area south of Montauk Highway, and a Black/Hispanic one north of the Highway, like many other south shore villages. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 12:22:07 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Railman718 on Mon Jun 6 12:18:53 2011. Doesn't really matter, not a lot of blacks and hispanics live in Midtown but you still notice a lot of them working at the restaurants there for the same reason. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 6 12:36:07 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 12:18:59 2011. You need to get off the bus once in a while. My area is north of Montauk and is largely white with some blacks and hispanics and even Indians. Generalizations don't always hold true. By the way - you capitalize "black and hispanic and leave white a s lower case. Is that intentional? Just curious! |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon Jun 6 12:37:32 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 12:22:07 2011. My point was made according to this post |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 6 12:43:30 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 11:45:49 2011. Actually McDonald's has pretty high standards for their employees, if you don't fit the proper attitude, you don't last there.Mc Donalds is a very well run company. Their workers are top notch, their restaurants are consistently clean and in good repair. Their food is always consistent. too bad their "consistent" food is mediocre at best. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 12:47:28 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 6 12:36:07 2011. You need to get off the bus once in a while. My area is north of Montauk and is largely white with some blacks and hispanics and even Indians. Generalizations don't always hold true.I don't know where your area is, but what I said is true for a lot of South Shore communities, that you'll see more blacks and hispanics living north of Montauk Highway like in Bellport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Freeport, etc By the way - you capitalize "black and hispanic and leave white a s lower case. Is that intentional? Just curious! I didn't even notice that, you're reading way too into that post. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 6 12:51:38 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 6 11:57:53 2011. I know I did. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 6 12:53:13 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 12:47:28 2011. I'm in Bay Shore, north on Montauk & I was just pointing out - not reading into. |
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Posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 6 12:53:46 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 6 12:51:38 2011. That's not a slam but reinforcement.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 6 12:58:25 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 12:18:59 2011. When I think of Bay Shore I think of it as a white area south of Montauk Highway, and a Black/Hispanic one north of the Highway, like many other south shore villages.You are correct. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 6 13:04:27 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 6 12:36:07 2011. . My area is north of Montauk and is largely white with some blacks and hispanics and even Indians. Generalizations don't always hold true.Yes, but he didn't say "all", he said many. Patchogue is another example of the opposite. While it doesn't have many Blacks, NORTH of Main St (Montauk Highway) is the BETTER neighborhood, values are higher north of Montauk Highway there. Some communities there is no difference between north and south, or less extremes. However there are MANY towns where his description is true...very poor and bad north, and affluent south. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 6 13:07:04 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 12:47:28 2011. In addition to Bellport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Freeport, you are also correct for Copaigue, Amityville, Babylon, and even out in the Hamptons that trend continues. The South Shore has lots of that. Pure affluence near the water and south, but poverty north. It's been like that for many decades. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 6 13:08:28 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 6 12:53:13 2011. Bay Shore, you have to travel further north, cross the railroad tracks, and even Sunrise. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 6 13:10:04 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 12:22:07 2011. not a lot of blacks and hispanics live in MidtownManhattan is an anormality, as people that can afford to live "in midtown" aren't going to be working "in Applebees: or "McDonalds". Manhattan restaurants gets it's workforce from outside it's neighborhood, just because of the way Manhattan is. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 6 13:11:07 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Railman718 on Mon Jun 6 12:37:32 2011. Correct, and as I said there too, Manhattan is different, and an anormality. People that can afford to live in Midtown aren't working as waitresses in "Applebees". |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Jun 6 15:23:58 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 6 08:05:02 2011. Exactly. Neighborhood style school systems will lead to segregated schools if the parents self-segregate. But even in school systems with busing, parents have found a way to avoid sending their kids to minority schools. Like starting a new school district.What's weird in LA is that even the white neighborhoods have schools that are majority minority. But it's closer to 50% instead of 99%. I think that Carson is maybe 15-20% white, but the high school is only 1% white. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Jun 6 19:55:39 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 12:47:28 2011. that you'll see more blacks and hispanics living north of Montauk Highway like in Bellport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Freeport, etcIn my little section of Zone 7 of the LIRR, I would note that while the zipcode is mostly white, the most of the non-whites and the vast majority of the (very small) black population lives in the northern most area. The areas near the water have inflated real estate prices, while the area near the railroad track has old housing stock at high prices due to the proximity to the station, and north of there housing varies on a micro level as one block may be very nice while another is average looking. Even crossing into East Meadow you see a difference as the average cars in the driveway are older or less luxury. FWIW, I do like to call my area, "the poor part of Merrick". |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Jun 6 20:06:33 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 11:38:11 2011. Even at the "upper end" franchise restaurants in the city (TGI Fridays, Applebee's) you don't really see white serversTo a certain extent, I've argued that NYC has chased out their lower end prole white class, especially Manhattan. If you're white, you're more likely to be able to be smart enough to find white collar work, or have the networking connections to find blue collar work*. In contrast, the blacks and Hispanics that work at these restaurants tend to be those who are looking for any opportunity even if they're commuting from the outer boros as there isn't much else for them to do. As for my experience in the heart of Nassau County, I'd note that the waiters are multi-ethnic at the chains, but that the diners and small restaurants may skew mostly white. I suspect that the chains are more afraid of lawsuits, but that the applicants "know better" in regards to their likelihood of being employed, and that many of the small restaurants basically ride on the labour of friends and family members. *Although, I wonder if the higher end non-chain restaurants are able to secure white staff with some selected non-white staff with better pay and benefits. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Jun 6 20:27:30 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Jun 6 20:06:33 2011. To a certain extent, I've argued that NYC has chased out their lower end prole white class, especially Manhattan.LA is the same. Working class and poor areas are essentially 100% minority aside from the gentrifying whites moving into some of the areas. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 7 00:32:42 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jun 6 01:08:42 2011. No. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:21:21 2011, in response to Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Jun 5 02:20:59 2011. I know you guys were totally waiting for my take on this, and I haven't yet read through the entire thread to confirm this, but I guess by now you probably have an idea on what I'm going to say:I will start by saying that I find it fascinating that Stossel says that "Economists understand the truth"; the reality is they don't or they choose not to, because if they did they would recognized what's contained in Richard J. Herrnstein's and Charles Murray's The Bell Curve or Richard Lynn's and Tatu Vanhanen's IQ and The Wealth of Nations and IQ and the Global Inequality. Welfare doesn't keep many blacks poor, or for that matter the many whites and people of all other races; rather it keeps many of them alive. For these people are poor not because of disenfranchisement from the market; they are poor because they have little to offer the market, because of their low IQ's, low contentiousness, and other less than marketable traits. Even in an a perfectly fair and all-white society, a certain segment of the population would be on the lower rungs of the economic ladder because of their place on the left side of the IQ bell curve. This would seem to be a forgone and natural conclusion when one recognizes the fact that people differ in their abilities and temperaments, yet it's lost upon many mainstream reporters when they tackle the issue of poverty; doubly so when race is added in. Stossel of course is libertarian so he spouts a lot of libertarian unfettered-market rubbish. Lowering or eliminating the minimum wage would not help lift the impoverished out of poverty because this would not at the same time magically lower the cost of living; rather it would only serve to create an army grunt workers slaving away in squalid conditions without being properly compensated. Worse, it would have little impact on most of the unemployed poor because a good share of them are incapable of meaningful work; rather it would only serve to harm the bulk of the dutifully working poor by depressing their wages. This piece is an example of why denying reality in the form of race and IQ denial is dangerous: it leads to hare-brained ideas and schemes that can set society back or irreparably harm it. |
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Re: John Stossel on welfare |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:22:24 2011, in response to Re: John Stossel on welfare, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jun 5 04:02:34 2011. Completely tangential to the article... |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:25:16 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jun 5 11:21:09 2011. That having been said, I agree with abolishing the minimum wage and that welfare has encouraged absentee fathers.Welfare has not encouraged absentee fathers; social liberation (in the form of the sexual revolution) has done that. The problem of absentee fathers are, in the vast majority of cases, only secondary to the main cause of poverty: the low IQ of the impoverished. Eliminating welfare will not solve that problem but only condemn many people to starve. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:26:32 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Jun 5 19:58:29 2011. >>>Another thing they neglect to mention that would help blacks economically is a crackdown on illegal immigration.Yeah, that's another reason why I'm now anti-Illegal Immigration, although I have nothing against illegal immigrants for wanting a better life personally. You have finally come to agree with one of Steve Sailer's biggest points. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:28:32 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Easy on Sun Jun 5 20:10:47 2011. For a couple of decades fast food jobs in the LA area had mostly been staffed by illegal Hispanics between 30 and 50 years old, but over the last two years those jobs have skewed younger and American. Of course quality has gone way down, but that's the price that we have to pay. ;)Interesting. Might this have something to do with the higher IQ's of Mexicans vs blacks and the lower level of responsibility of both younger and black employees? |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:30:03 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Easy on Mon Jun 6 00:10:56 2011. I just heard him say it and what it sounded like he meant was an inferior education. Such as kids graduating yet reading at a very low grade level or without basic math skills.Have you ever heard of Ron White? Educational policy makers would do well to heed his words... |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:30:56 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Jun 6 00:21:30 2011. Yup.....Doesn't stop me from saying it, ridiculous charges of racism and all... |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:36:14 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Jun 6 00:34:06 2011. They actually already do this, and this is what AEM is speaking of. Of course, the difference is only a matter of quality, based on a need to defer to reality about student ability. If they fully embraced the idea of race differences and had more realistic expectations of blacks and Hispanics then it might serve them well prepping them for service and laboring jobs (mindful to spot the bright ones and promote them to more quality education). |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:37:58 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Easy on Mon Jun 6 00:39:48 2011. If true, this may be because the problem of stereotype threat is less of an issue there (no better performing white students to compete with). Of course, we don't know how this was measure or how these kids were sorted to these schools so it's hard to say. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 8 09:38:50 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:21:21 2011. I can almost agree with you that welfare does not keep the majority of recipients captive to the system. I say almost because I had a very close relative who played the welfare game in Florida. The person had reasonably good technical skills - enough to get by in industry. Yet when I took him to an adult education center in Sunrise, Fl. and gave him the money to enroll, I literally watched him go in the front door and then duck out a side door. As long as he was getting the check, he could stay home, do his drugs and make babies. He did this until he OD'd a few years ago - followed several months later by his 20 year old daughter.I agree that welfare will always be necessary in this country so we need to resign ourselves to it. Lest we end up with the specter of street beggars such as in Calcutta and other 3rd world basins of poverty. What i do not agree with is that welfare should be free. My belief is that all recipients should be required (except in the case of mothers with children too young for day care) to perform some sort of community work for their stipend. This will provide 2 benefits. First - it will get things done that need to be done anyway. Second and more importantly - it will take people off the dole who can work by having them come to the realization that as long as they have to work for "the check" they can find something on the outside where they can do better. Do not dismiss John Stossel's ideas so quickly. They may not be perfect but his beliefs do offer some possibilities. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:40:19 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Jun 6 00:45:38 2011. Pretty much, on all counts. Winter forces one to think long-term, as six months with no plant matter and frigid temperatures (with no cars, snow plows, or electricity) favors thinking beyond immediate concerns. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 8 09:53:10 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:36:14 2011. 2 points of disagreement:First social promotion is important to the school and teachers because their performance is based on how many students get promoted or graduate. They don't measure their performance once they hit the job market. (I was once asked to sit on a panel to interview high school students for apprenticeship programs within the NYC Transit system. These apprenticeship jobs paid in the area of $14 per hour and after 3 years of schooling and practical training, they could matriculate to full time jobs. I had several prepared questions based on the area of technical training the student received. For example, if they were in the Home Electrician program, I'd ask about wiring. I asked one such group this hypothetical: "If you were going to install an all electric kitchen in a home, which size wire would you use, #8, #12, #14. Not one was able to answer the question correctly. Several weeks later after no candidates were chosen (I was one of 6 on the panel) we were asked to attend a meeting at George Westinghouse Vocational HS to discuss where the schools were failing. The teacher's attitude was that next year we should submit out questions in advance, so their bets and brightest could be prepped. The idea that they were failing to educate never entered their minds) Second - Affirmative action. It's purpose has been served and it's result is always going to be suspect. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:58:12 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Jun 6 00:51:15 2011. Indeed. In fact, I would take it a step further and promote new eugenic measures to attack the root cause of the problem: the lower average IQ and less average civilized temperament of black and brown people. A negative income tax should be instituted to help honest workers get by and to encourage participation in the work force. Persistently unemployed people (excluding SAH parents coupled with a working mate)—of all races—should be discouraged from breeding in the form of cash payments for remaining childless or even rewards for sterilization. Criminals—of all races—should be offered sterilization in exchange for cash (a much smaller amount than non-criminals) and perhaps early release. Working couples with children, especially higher performing ones—of all races—should be given bonuses for having more children.Bryan Caplan wrote an article criticizing the concept of eugenics, reminding us that society needs lower IQ people to do less skilled work and to demand the services of higher IQ individuals. However, this would be a problem only in a society that already has a high mean IQ. If blacks and Hispanics could be brought up to the white mean IQ, society would certainly benefit, and after all, isn't this already the goal of NCLB and "Race to the Top" and other hare-brained schemes, if executed in a way that ignores the genetic nature of ability? |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 8 10:01:18 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:58:12 2011. "less average civilized temperament of black and brown people. "Can you explain what you mean by this, exactly? |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 10:05:54 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jun 6 01:36:08 2011. Luch (and everyone, for that matter), you shouldn't criticize someone's intelligence when it's you that's not understanding what's being said. He's saying that while legal segregation does not exist, segregation exists in practice because neighborhoods are segregated, mostly in the form of whites living away from neighborhoods that have a lot of blacks, as you yourself are quick to point out... |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 8 10:08:09 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:25:16 2011. I disagree. Welfare actually disincentivizes the father living with the mother because their income is considered together for the purposes of welfare benefits. This isn't an inherent problem with welfare itself but with the way eligibility is calculated. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 10:21:05 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Jun 6 11:04:49 2011. J.P. Rushton explained the problem in terms of r/K-selection theory. Blacks hail from a more adverse environment than do Eurasians (because in Eurasia, once you've mastered dealing with the cold, life was pretty fine, especially since the bugs go away every winter). As such, those whose immediate ancestors hail from Africa tend to have shorter lifespans—partly from their own inability to navigate dangers—and hence evolved to give more consideration to more immediate concerns. This includes gathering status quickly and often violently, and less investment in each offspring in favor for more opportunity for sex—with more partners—to have more offspring. Whites and Asians on the other hand—with longer lifespans and hailing from more predictable and stable environments—tended towards the route of maximizing their exploitation of the environment, where long-term planning and fewer offspring with heavier investment in each was a better bet. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 10:24:56 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Jun 6 20:06:33 2011. It is interesting actually, because NYC serves to makes the average differences between the races more prominent, and racial differences more salient. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Jun 8 10:31:27 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 09:58:12 2011. You're scary. Just plain scary. |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 10:34:57 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 8 09:38:50 2011. You certainly have a point. This all depends on how welfare reform is implemented. They are some people who, believe me, are really useless for all social purposes—even community work—and it is better that these people are fed and sheltered than out begging or worse committing crimes. Ideally, it would be better if we didn't have these people, but we do, and always will. Welfare form needs to be made in concert with larger eugenic policy that discourages these people from reproducing, so that society has fewer of them. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 8 10:40:32 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Easy on Sun Jun 5 20:10:47 2011. I think we'd all be better off if fast-food ordering were replaced by a kiosks. There'd still be people working behind the counter preparing the food and then handing it to you, but all that the cashier does when taking your order is press buttons that you can probably press yourself.It's not like fast food restaurants sell anything that they need to card you for. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 10:53:45 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 8 10:01:18 2011. Blacks, and to a less extent brown people, seem to be less conscientious, on average, than whites. That is, they are less willing to commit themselves to intensive labor, have less ability to delay gratification, are less able to commit to long-term plans, are more impulsive and are more violent, on average. These personality traits persist even when controlling for IQ, in such that a black person is more likely to be criminal than is a white person with the same IQ. This partly explains the ills suffered by black and brown people, and renders many of them less functional in civilized society. |
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Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks? |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Jun 8 10:59:53 2011, in response to Re: Fox News - Is Government Aid Helping or Hurting Blacks?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 8 10:08:09 2011. This is true, but is not the source of the problem. The culture today is one that allows out-of-wedlock births, whereas before the sexual revolution it did not. This is fine for whites because they behave (in terms of reproduction) much as they always did. Not so for black and brown people, who incline more towards their "natural" behavior (as relatively r-strategists). But the root cause of the poverty—at least of the fatherless children when they themselves grow up—is not the presence or absence of the father (since parenting doesn't impact how children turn out anyway) but the traits such people possess. Getting fathers to stay—if possible—won't solve the problem. |
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