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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 15:51:19 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 15:29:36 2014. The law has NOTHING to do with race. Again, being gay is not a race.Yes, it does. The law says that business owners can turn away anyone as long as they claim religious reasons for doing so. Racism is prevalent in the area. Racist business owners desire to turn away black people. The law permits them to turn away any person, as long as they cite "religious reasons." Therefore, racist business owners will turn away black people and cite "religious reasons." The law forbids turning someone away because of their race, but the business owners are technically not turning anybody away because of their race; they're merely turning some people away for "religious reasons," which this law specifically permits. That all the people turned away happen to be black is completely coincidental as far as the law is concerned; the business owner has merely exercised his religious rights under this law. Oh please. You don't seriously believe that people won't become more inclined to do something when society tells them it's acceptable, do you? |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 15:53:12 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 15:43:19 2014. I never said it was. It is, however, another demographic that faces discrimination.The two have nothing to do with each other, or this law, as you are not allowed to discriminate against race. You are also not allowed to murder, so the hysteria of this law is trying to use totally unrelated hysteria that does not apply to begin with (and this is not to be taken that I agree with this law, I am just explaining the law as written, as you extreme leftists like to try and insinuate when someone is explaining something). |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 15:57:40 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 15:51:19 2014. Yes, it does. The law says that business owners can turn away anyone as long as they claim religious reasons for doing so.Name a religion that descriminates using religious reasons against certain races. Racism is prevalent in the area. Racist business owners desire to turn away black people. This law has nothing to do with "race". Being gay is not a race. Therefore, racist business owners will turn away black people and cite "religious reasons." And they would have to name the "religious reason" for doing so. Where is there prohibition against race in religions? They would also have disclose that they are a part of this "religion", and where in the "religion" it says this is a religious reason. How would they do that? You don't seriously believe that people won't become more inclined to do something when society tells them it's acceptable, do you? Again, not that this is a good law, but that said, also let's not make your hysteria actually be something the law is not. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 15:58:41 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Easy on Mon Apr 7 15:45:05 2014. Because I think that it will cause the end of non-religious traditional marriage."Non-religious traditional marriage?" As in a business contract where the bankrupt Count of Galvieri agrees to marry his daughter to the son of a rich commoner so that she gets money and he gets nobility? That's what marriage has traditionally meant. What does it matter to you if four people marry? What does it matter to you if a man and a woman decide to marry for a predetermined period of 2 years? It doesn't and it doesn't. As long as everybody involved gives informed consent, it's really none of my business. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 16:07:02 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 15:57:40 2014. Name a religion that descriminates using religious reasons against certain races.Christianity? This law has nothing to do with "race". Being gay is not a race. Why do you keep saying that being gay is not a race? I think we've established that pretty well by now. The law doesn't explicitly say anything about race. It doesn't explicitly say anything about sexual orientation. But it permits discrimination based on either. I've already explained how and see no need to repeat it here. And they would have to name the "religious reason" for doing so. Where is there prohibition against race in religions? They would also have disclose that they are a part of this "religion", and where in the "religion" it says this is a religious reason. How would they do that? Why would they say anything about their religion requiring discrimination against certain races? Don't you remember that discriminating based on race is illegal under federal law? The law does not require business owners to offer a theological justification for their decision to turn someone away; all they need to do is say "I'm denying you service because of my religion." |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 16:11:22 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 15:53:12 2014. The two have nothing to do with each other, or this law, as you are not allowed to discriminate against race.Under this law, you would be allowed to discriminate based on race. The law in the original post will in practice allow discrimination based on race for the reasons I have previously described. Murder is illegal, obviously, but jury nullification does happen because of racism— and creating the impression that racism is socially acceptable makes racism worse. I am just explaining the law as written, as you extreme leftists like to try and insinuate when someone is explaining something). You're still calling me an extreme leftist? We've already determined that you're farther left than I am. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 7 16:16:05 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 15:02:47 2014. Reading comprehension. It are EVERYWHERE! :) |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 7 16:17:54 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 7 09:23:16 2014. 
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 16:22:18 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 16:07:02 2014. "Belief Blog"? LOL, can we have an actual source instead of some blog?The law doesn't explicitly say anything about race. It doesn't explicitly say anything about sexual orientation. But it permits discrimination based on either. I've already explained how and see no need to repeat it here. Bit it ALSO states that you can't do anything illegal, REGARDLESS of religious belief. Discrimination based on Race is ILLEGAL, this law does not trump that. Murder is ILLEGAL, this law does not trump that. Convenient you keep forgetting that part of it. Non discrimination against race is a federal law. State law does not trump federal law. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 7 16:23:01 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Easy on Mon Apr 7 15:10:35 2014. Yeah, we should go back to America's ... "roots" ... :(
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 16:26:33 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 16:11:22 2014. The law in the original post will in practice allow discrimination based on race for the reasons I have previously described. No it won't as your reasoning is faulty. This law does not trump federal law. It doesn't allow for anything that is already illegal, regardless of "religious belief". Murder is illegal, obviously, but jury nullification does happen because of racism— and creating the impression that racism is socially acceptable makes racism worse. It does nothing to change jury nillification. You're still calling me an extreme leftist? We've already determined that you're farther left than I am. LOL!!! No "we" haven't. YOU made that determination, based on a few sentences I posted to play with you, as you claimed I was a "right wing nut. Just because you type something in a thread that is unreadable because of all the responses at this point, doesn't establish anything, except in your poor soul little brain of yours. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 16:28:44 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 7 09:23:16 2014. Bunp. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 16:33:19 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 7 16:23:01 2014. And that is now ILLEGAL federally. A state can not make legal, what is illegal federally. Federal law trumps state law. |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 16:41:44 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 16:26:33 2014. No it won't as your reasoning is faulty. This law does not trump federal law. It doesn't allow for anything that is already illegal, regardless of "religious belief".I'm not sure how I can make this any clearer. This law will make it legal in practice to discriminate based on race. It does not trump the federal law against racial discrimination, but it makes that law meaningless and unenforceable by giving racists a means to turn away all black people without officially discriminating based on race. The equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment forbid discrimination based on race, but Jim Crow states banned blacks from voting— not by declaring the amendment invalid or passing laws that "trumped" it, but by passing laws that forbid blacks from voting in practice but didn't "technically" discriminate, such as by declaring that all people, regardless of race, are not allowed to vote unless they pass an impossible test or pay an exorbitant poll tax, unless their grandfather was permitted to vote. (That being the origin of the term "grandfather clause.") Officially, this law did not discriminate against black people; it merely defined the voting requirements in a racially neutral way that made no reference to pigmentation whatsoever. That it just happened to ban almost all black people from voting without any restrictions on white people was "entirely coincidental" as far as federal law was concerned. LOL!!! No "we" haven't. YOU made that determination, based on a few sentences I posted to play with you, as you claimed I was a "right wing nut. So you lied about what you believed? |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 7 16:47:11 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 15:57:40 2014. Name a religion that discriminates using religious reasons against certain races.Oh goody! I was *hoping* someone would push the football over the line on that one! So let's drag Reverend Wright into this silliness then ... after all, that's what is believed on the opposition team anyway. You're welcome. :) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 16:47:17 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 16:41:44 2014. This law will make it legal in practice to discriminate based on raceNo it won't because it will STILL BE ILLEGAL to discriminate based on race, reGARDLESS of religious belief. They will NOT be able to turn away Blacks "based on race", unless they are let's say a gay couple of Blacks. But that would be the same for gay whites. Race is not an issue.. So you lied about what you believed? Not at all. They were all truthful. But if you think you can decide my political leanings by 5 or 6 positions be my guest. That's about absurd as you calling me a right nut winger to begin with. |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 17:08:28 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 16:47:17 2014. No it won't because it will STILL BE ILLEGAL to discriminate based on race, reGARDLESS of religious belief. They will NOT be able to turn away Blacks "based on race", unless they are let's say a gay couple of Blacks. But that would be the same for gay whites. Race is not an issue..You are so white. Might I suggest you look up the phrase "white privilege?" Because you are positively radiating it. "Federal law forbids discrimination based on race, therefore there is NO RACISM ANYWHERE!" Where's that cartoon I posted for ChicagoMotorman? Ah. Here we are.  Why do you keep bringing up gay people? Take a look at the law— there is no reference to sexual orientation whatsoever. What the law says is, essentially: "All business owners have the right to refuse service to anyone if they believe their religion tells them to." You clearly understand that homophobic business owners will invoke that law to exclude gay people; why is it so difficult to understand that racist business owners will invoke that law to exclude black people? Not at all. They were all truthful. But if you think you can decide my political leanings by 5 or 6 positions be my guest. If you have any conservative views that would contradict the notion that you're liberal, feel free to post them. At the moment, I'm offering 50/50 odds that racism might be one of those values. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 17:22:13 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 17:08:28 2014. Hahahahahahahahahaha....the white privilege nonsense. I have no interest in reading your stupid cartoons. More power to you if you think people will actually read.And once again, federal law does not allow racial discrimination, regardless of "religious views" |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 7 17:22:34 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 16:33:19 2014. Isn't doing away with all that is what the "tea party" is all about? And down there is their homeland?State's rights, yo. :( |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 17:33:25 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 17:22:13 2014. Hahahahahahahahahaha....the white privilege nonsense.The first example of white privilege is not having to think about white privilege. I have no interest in reading your stupid cartoons. OK, this is where the line starts to blur between "oblivious privilege" and "explicitly racist." More power to you if you think people will actually read. Well yes, I generally don't consider the illiterate to be a demographic worth writing for. And once again, federal law does not allow racial discrimination, regardless of "religious views" And once again, I have explained the point in extremely simple terms here. I'm not sure how I can make this any clearer, but I'll give it one more try. Let's take this one step at a time. This law goes into effect. A black man walks into a store. The white store owner says: "I refuse to serve you because of my religious beliefs. Leave now or I'll have you arrested for trespassing." What happens next? |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 17:39:41 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 17:33:25 2014. Exactly. Everyone who is chastising me for the language of this law needs to read up on a little history. All of the Jim Crow laws were just as carefully worded, to sound innocuous and legalistic, but in actual practice, they were barbaric. |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 17:49:59 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 17:39:41 2014. Everyone who is chastising me for the language of this law needs to read up on a little history.A challenge which, though seemingly simple, proves insurmountable for a great many people. Sigh. Those who remember their history are doomed to say "I told you so." |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by The silence on Mon Apr 7 18:09:58 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 15:01:42 2014. And you quoted it wrong. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 7 18:23:58 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 17:39:41 2014. Who chastised you about that? |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 7 18:30:44 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 7 09:23:16 2014. Bump. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by The silence on Mon Apr 7 18:31:26 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 14:46:56 2014. You quoted my post, but you do not understand my post. You don't know what actually happened.This up spike in the freedom of religion laws has nothing to do with a challenge to an unconsititional law, but a response to actions these lawmakers seam should not be allowed. A gay couple in New Mexico wanted to hire a photographer for thier wedding. The photographer said no, it was against his scencirly held religious beliefs to participate in such a ceremony. The couple sued him. What you left out from my post was how my explain tion continued to include how I feel the couple were morons for going after the photographer when they could have let it go, found someone else to take pictures and let the issue die. But no, they had to make an example out of him. And the judge found in the couple's favor. More than once. This law would remove the ability to sue of anyone in Mississippi who finds themsevels in similar circumstances. |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 18:35:05 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by The silence on Mon Apr 7 18:31:26 2014. The couple sued him. What you left out from my post was how my explain tion continued to include how I feel the couple were morons for going after the photographer when they could have let it go, found someone else to take pictures and let the issue die.'I respectfully disagree. But no, they had to make an example out of him. And the judge found in the couple's favor. More than once. As he should have. This law would remove the ability to sue of anyone in Mississippi who finds themsevels in similar circumstances. My point is that people in Mississippi would still be allowed to sue. You can file a suit against anyone for any reason. This law will give the judge grounds to immediately dismiss such a suit. That dismissal will give the plaintiff grounds for appeal, thus transforming the case into a challenge of the law itself. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 18:36:57 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by The silence on Mon Apr 7 18:09:58 2014. How so? |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 21:17:12 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 7 18:23:58 2014. YOU, for starters. You are among the quickest to ridicule everyone else here, but many of your own posts are a testament to your own ignorance.I've also noticed you almost never start threads on these boards, but are always ready to upbraid everyone else who does. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 7 21:26:06 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 21:17:12 2014. Ridicule?Like you using that photo of Bush and the religious figure who happened to be near the Mississippi flag? That is so York Community College ish. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 7 21:41:41 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 7 21:26:06 2014. York is a four year college. |
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Posted by rkba on Mon Apr 7 21:43:55 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 14:56:48 2014. She's a woman. Are you dense? |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Apr 7 21:45:48 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Edwards! on Fri Apr 4 15:07:42 2014. Relax, this will go the the Supreme Court & be overturned. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 7 21:46:13 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 7 21:41:41 2014. I think they have a 2-year program, like John Jay. That's how it was. Maybe it changed.Thanks for attacking. |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 21:52:28 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 7 21:26:06 2014. Are you very sure that was the Mississippi state flag? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 7 21:57:10 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 21:52:28 2014. Did you see the other state flags nearby? That a hint?This behavior is what they must have taught you in "church" and college. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 7 22:19:07 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 17:22:13 2014. Im laughing ,too!laughing at how you honestly expect us to believe YOU actually believe that such a thing didn't exist...while benefiting FROM it. |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 22:24:38 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 7 22:19:07 2014. Well, the defining feature of privilege is that those who have it don't have to think about it and generally don't notice it. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 7 22:45:57 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 17:39:41 2014. Of course.history has a very nasty habit of shedding harsh light on issues some would rather keep buried in the darkness of the "past". the "new laws" the extremist have in mind for the so called "underclass" has all the makings of a revised witch hunt. |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 23:12:32 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 7 21:57:10 2014. Well, only the stars and Bars are visible in the photo. Perhaps you have an inside source at the White House that told you otherwise? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 7 23:14:13 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 23:12:32 2014. Or perhaps you're being an little childish element. It's clearly a display of state flags. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 7 23:51:07 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 23:12:32 2014. Tune to 640 and 1240 on the dial for further instructions.(frog farts, bwooooooooooooooooooo) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 8 01:44:57 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 23:12:32 2014. What Stars and Bars? this is the Stars and Bars:
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 8 07:27:09 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 23:12:32 2014. Really dude? And you call yourself a journalist? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 07:37:36 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 21:17:12 2014. Huh? I did not chastise you about the language of the law! What are you talking about??? And I'm among the quickest to ridicule? Huh? Where is this coming from? What is the relevance to you being completely wrong about this law you brought up?What does starting or not starting threads have to do with anything? And I upbraid? ThIs is a discussion forum. People introduce a topic and then they discuss it with others. It's called having a discussion. It happens billions of times a day. If you can't handle a discussion then why are you here? |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 07:38:40 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 8 01:44:57 2014. LOL!!!!!!!!!¡!!!!!!! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 07:38:56 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 8 07:27:09 2014. +1 |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 07:42:15 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 21:52:28 2014. After everyone (and the link) told you that you are wrong, you're still being defiant??? Unbelievable!!No wait. This makes sense. It makes sense that someone who thinks the Mississippi government would pass a law making murder legal would also think that a confederate battle flag (or whatever it's called) would be on the White House lawn. Yep. |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Apr 8 09:33:00 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 8 01:44:57 2014. Off topic, for this post, but I prefer this Stars and Bars :) |
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Posted by The Silence on Tue Apr 8 11:10:43 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 18:35:05 2014. So then I you're in favor of eliminating the first amendment?See, I can make baseless accusations two. the courts should not have found in their favor because they suffered no damage or harm. someone refused to take their pictures. Unless he refused to return a deposits (most of which are nonrefundable anyway), he owned them nothing. This leans to bullying and harassment. |
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