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| Re: This Actually Happened In America Today (1169144) | |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by The Silence on Tue Apr 8 11:13:28 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 17:39:41 2014. You have proven to us over and over and over that you have no comprehension of the English language. I posted the exact paragraph that says the two of you are incorrect, but you still continue.US Federal law is ALWAYS superior to state laws. If the Federal government says you can't discriminate against someone because of race, you can't. IF you walked into a store and someone tried to pull that line (I refuse to server you on religious grounds, because you're black), they would get into trouble because in this country that is illegal. There is no loophole here, because protecting your rights as a black person is a "Compelling Government Interest". Remember that phrase? It's in not only this law, but the 19 OTHER Religious Freedom Restoration Acts in the rest of the country. You are buying into hysterical bullshit. Jim Crowe could exist because the federal government allowed "Separate, but equal" and then everyone got lax on the equal part. But that was then and this is now. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by The Silence on Tue Apr 8 11:27:44 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Apr 7 23:12:32 2014. No, there is a nice blue stripe coming down between Bush and the Pope  And as I noted in that thread, then why would the state flag of Indiana be next to it (which you can't argue is anything else since it says Indiana on it). Unless it's a line state of flags displayed in order of admission to the union. And guess who joined next after Indiana? And you say we don't know history... |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 8 11:38:21 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by The Silence on Tue Apr 8 11:27:44 2014. He so wants to believe his nonsense, that he will do anything to hold onto it.Sad that as a "journalist", he would want false information portrayed, or continued to be portrayed. It's a blog that started this nonsense, and he took a blog as "fact", even mentioned it as his "source", then after repeatedly being shown he and the story was wrong, he continued to try and hold on to this nonsense. So....he either purposely was trying to deceive to try to prove a manufactured point, or he accidentally believed the blog story, took it as fact without verifying it, and presented it to us here. Either way it's quite sad. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by The Silence on Tue Apr 8 13:13:02 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 8 11:38:21 2014. keep him away from the Onion and Stephen Colbert... |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 13:18:20 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 07:42:15 2014. After everyone (and the link) told you that you are wrong, you're still being defiant??? Unbelievable!!  
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 13:33:41 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by The Silence on Tue Apr 8 11:10:43 2014. So then I you're in favor of eliminating the first amendment?Non sequitur. Opposing discrimination does not restrict freedom of speech. He was perfectly free to bang on about how horrible it was that he's forced to acknowledge the existence of people who have inborn traits he doesn't like. See, I can make baseless accusations two. Where's the other one? the courts should not have found in their favor because they suffered no damage or harm. Actually, there's some precedent on the matter which says that discrimination is inherently harmful. Unless he refused to return a deposits (most of which are nonrefundable anyway), he owned them nothing. Yeah, we've tried this before. It didn't work out. ...and did you just say that because the deposit was nonrefundable, he should have been allowed to take the money and run? This leans to bullying and harassment. Well you're clearly straight. Because this statement is so glowing with privilege that it's at risk of collapsing into explicit bigotry. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 13:37:09 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by The Silence on Tue Apr 8 11:13:28 2014. IF you walked into a store and someone tried to pull that line (I refuse to server you on religious grounds, because you're black), they would get into trouble because in this country that is illegal.That's your problem right there. Where are you getting the idea that anyone would say it in as many words? I asked this before; Chris couldn't answer but maybe you can. Pay attention to the exact words. This law goes into effect. A black man walks into a store. The white store owner says: "I refuse to serve you because of my religious beliefs. Leave now or I'll have you arrested for trespassing." |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Tue Apr 8 14:06:47 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 7 23:14:13 2014. Did you happen to notice that Allan attacked me? I probably deserved it. I am afraid of him after he challenged me to a fight earlier this year at a time and place of my choosing. I am not looking for any trouble from him.Here |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Tue Apr 8 14:40:03 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Apr 8 09:33:00 2014. I fell in behind that thing while taxiing last week.Well, looky here. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 8 14:49:58 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 13:37:09 2014. And just because you didn't like my answer, doesn't mean I didn't answer your poor soulness.And I asked you what religious beliefs that would be that ban Black people? There aren't any. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 8 15:03:54 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 7 22:19:07 2014. "laughing at how you honestly expect us to believe YOU actually believe that such a thing didn't exist...while benefiting FROM it."GP38 and others like him are in utter denial of it, even though they "profitted" from it. When i told him about the man who wanted a better place to live in the Bronx, NY and he and his wife were mistreated by those in the building and around the area there, he says..oh I would never live in such a place. Saying that facing racism, one should be passive and just leave. If people did that, there would be no Civil Rights laws in America. People stood up to racism and did not want to run away from it. GP38 just shows his ignorance way too much on OTChat. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 15:17:58 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 13:18:20 2014. ? |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Apr 8 17:04:42 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Apr 4 09:49:07 2014. I am serious, but please don't call me Shirley. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Apr 8 17:05:20 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 3 20:57:39 2014. Stupid post of the day. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 8 17:24:19 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Apr 8 17:05:20 2014. Try 4 days ago. Plus who wants to go somewhere where simply walking down the street could find you with a gun in your face("getoff myproperty"). That's no way to live. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by The silence on Tue Apr 8 19:47:26 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 13:37:09 2014. I answered your question a long time ago.Also, as noted in section 2, the belief must be held "sincerely." you can't make stuff up or use other religious beliefs without proof they were yours before and remain yours now. The actions you describe would be next to impossible to sell as sincere religious beliefs. Not supporting gay marriage is a known, common, scincerly held belief. Right or wrong doesn't matter in this instance. I don't know of any religion currently that exposes rejecting black people. The other thing you're missing is circumstance of wanting to reject someone. The original case, it was a wedding photographer who refused to do a gay wedding. He would have to be there for the activity to photograph it. Activity he wholly rejects as immoral. What are we gonna do next, force Terrapin to eat a ham at gun point? Or post on Saturday? These are his scincerly held religious beliefs. Well at least we know the later is, I don't know much of his eating habbits or care to learn. One earlier freedom of religion case was a Jewish store owner who wished to open his store on Sunday in violation of the local Blue Laws, because he could not compete with other store owners because he couldn't open on Saturday because of his Sabbath obligations, and couldn't do Sunday because the local laws said he couldn't. The uncaring courts of the time said he could not open on Sunday. But a law such as the one being debated here would allow him to open on Sunday if the government can't prove that enforcing the blue laws passes the nessiasry tests written into the law. Look at it this way. It would be like someone sueing you for refusing to photograph a KKK rally. You do not share thier beliefs. You'd want nothing to do with those people. So why do you see fit to force other's into similar cricumstances? |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by The silence on Tue Apr 8 20:00:01 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 13:33:41 2014. There has never been any proof of the root cause of homosexuality, if a single root cause exists at all, so the argument of inborn traits has no functional basis.The other baseless claim? So you believe it's OK to discriminate against gay people? He's not discriminating against them, they are against him. I'm the only one here treating the three on equal footing (sexuality is not a protected class). Trying to force him to do anything is violating his freedom of religion and freedom of expression at the same time. All he did was refuse to take thier pictures. He refused a good day's work to stand upon his religious principles. The couple got, a worst, hurt feelings. That, in and of itself, is not grounds to drag someone else's good name through the mud. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Tue Apr 8 20:02:55 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by The silence on Tue Apr 8 19:47:26 2014. What are we gonna do next, force Terrapin to eat a ham at gun point?There is still a long way to go but you are, at the very least, in the conversation for "Post of the Year" with that gem. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 8 20:05:27 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by The silence on Tue Apr 8 20:00:01 2014. I'm the only one here treating the three on equal footing (sexuality is not a protected class)Per the First and Fourteenth Amendments, it isn't; but per the left-wing "hate crime" laws, they try to make it so in an unconstitutional manner. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Apr 8 20:21:53 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Apr 7 21:45:48 2014. Actually, I believe that the Supreme Court refused to hear the case. It's now up to individual states to set the law or not. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 8 20:45:55 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Train Dude on Tue Apr 8 20:21:53 2014. As the law was just passed, how is this possible? |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 20:53:21 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 15:17:58 2014. Hmm, looks like you're having trouble understanding nuance and context. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 8 21:07:29 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 8 20:45:55 2014. That was regarding a New Mexico case. I do not know how exactly, but I'd bet the Mississippi law is worded differently.The photographers lost their case and appeal. Not what the RW wanted. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 21:09:15 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by The silence on Tue Apr 8 19:47:26 2014. The actions you describe would be next to impossible to sell as sincere religious beliefs.Who's selling beliefs to who? I asked: A black man walks into a store. The white store owner says: "I refuse to serve you because of my religious beliefs. Leave now or I'll have you arrested for trespassing." What happens next? Does the black man ask the white store owner to explain what religious beliefs motivate his decision? Does the black man tell the white store owner that he must be lying about his religious beliefs? Does the black man leave the store as requested? What's the next thing that happens in the scene I described? The rest of your examples are irrelevant, as they do not involve discriminating against anyone based on inborn traits; Terrapin's eating and posting habits are private decisions that don't involve anyone else; I'd (potentially) refuse to photograph a KKK rally because I disagree with what they believe, not what they are, and the case of the Jewish store owner proves my point more than yours; Saturday was his religion's sabbath so he chose not to sell, while Sunday was another religion's sabbath so he legally couldn't sell because that religion had codified its sabbath into the law. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 21:16:25 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by The silence on Tue Apr 8 20:00:01 2014. There has never been any proof of the root cause of homosexuality, if a single root cause exists at all, so the argument of inborn traits has no functional basis.We don't know exactly what causes it, but we know sexual orientation is fixed and unchanging. That makes it an inborn trait for purposes of discrimination. He's not discriminating against them, they are against him. Oh that's rich. Do you support segregation? That's an honest question, because the next thing you say is this: I'm the only one here treating the three on equal footing (sexuality is not a protected class). Presumably you believe sexual orientation should be a protected class, given that you claim you don't discriminate, so why are you so against the couple? Rhetoric aside, here's another serious question: Do you believe sexual orientation should be a protected class? The couple got, a worst, hurt feelings. I'd give you a lengthy explanation of the cumulative effect of discrimination which may involve the word "microaggressions" but I somehow doubt it would do much good. That, in and of itself, is not grounds to drag someone else's good name through the mud. If all he did was stand up for his religious beliefs, exactly how is his name being dragged through the mud? When did the gay couple ever say anything other than "he refused to photograph our wedding because we're gay, and we think he shouldn't have refused?" |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 21:16:55 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 8 20:05:27 2014. Do you believe it should be? |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 8 21:25:04 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 21:16:55 2014. He doesn't know what "protected class" means. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Dave on Tue Apr 8 22:06:56 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 8 17:24:19 2014. Good thing that never happens in NY. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Apr 8 22:09:30 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Apr 4 15:59:12 2014. "Lets not get ridiculous"?Have you forgotten to whom you are responding? |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 8 22:31:16 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Dave on Tue Apr 8 22:06:56 2014. Yes, it is. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 8 23:17:45 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by cortelyounext on Tue Apr 8 20:02:55 2014. Ahem. I mean ... Aham!
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 8 23:18:46 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 8 21:25:04 2014. Sure he does ... you stretch a prophylactic over 26 school children to keep the commies away. :) |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Apr 9 03:00:01 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 4 20:58:08 2014. Its sad as heck to watch. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Apr 9 03:06:51 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Edwards! on Wed Apr 9 03:00:01 2014. The GOOD news though is that there's still some places that are too well to play. I see what's playing out in Ukraine now happening here, and that's the really scary part. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Apr 9 07:18:45 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 8 22:31:16 2014. WABB. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Apr 9 13:40:17 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Dave on Wed Apr 9 07:18:45 2014. Nowhere near. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 9 16:45:23 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 20:53:21 2014. Possibly. Whatever the case may be, I have no idea what you're saying. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Apr 9 16:59:31 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 9 16:45:23 2014. Pot.Kettle. Black. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun May 4 14:24:16 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 6 14:11:42 2014. I refused!!! |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun May 4 19:28:36 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Fri Apr 4 19:46:15 2014. Aw, I broke your brain. :(You break it, it's yours. :-) |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Mon May 5 07:49:07 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun May 4 14:24:16 2014. I know. |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 29 20:45:16 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 21:09:15 2014. No reply?I thought it was The Silence who were supposed to make you forget about them, but apparently I have that power. :) |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 29 20:45:18 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 8 14:49:58 2014. And I asked you what religious beliefs that would be that ban Black people? There aren't any.I already told you— your question is invalid. The law does not require a theological dissertation. The question is simple, if you'd like to take a stab at answering it: This law goes into effect. A black man walks into a store. The white store owner says: "I refuse to serve you because of my religious beliefs. Leave now or I'll have you arrested for trespassing." |
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Re: This Actually Happened In America Today |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 29 20:45:20 2014, in response to Re: This Actually Happened In America Today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 7 16:22:18 2014. "Belief Blog"? LOL, can we have an actual source instead of some blog?That slavery was used to justify religion is well-documented. Although since you're a racist, it's unsurprising that you would deny it. Bit it ALSO states that you can't do anything illegal, REGARDLESS of religious belief. Discrimination based on Race is ILLEGAL, this law does not trump that. Murder is ILLEGAL, this law does not trump that. Convenient you keep forgetting that part of it. Non discrimination against race is a federal law. State law does not trump federal law. I've already explained how this works. A black guy walks into a store. The (white) store owner declares: "Get out. I refuse to serve you based on my religion." What happens next? What happens next is that GP38/R42 Chris realises that I'm right but is too cowardly to admit it so he diligently ignores this post and then whines to whoever will listen that I'm evil for proving him wrong. |
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