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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Fri May 27 02:50:59 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Thu May 26 21:27:50 2011. I agree.What's so wrong with taking the subway/bus? It's cheaper than wasting gas sitting in traffic. Plus other than dealing with other people, you don't have to worry about the driving and later parking. If you [in general] want to drive, then 'good luck'. Driving is fine if it is anytime other than the am/pm rush hours. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri May 27 03:52:57 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Pablo M 201 on Thu May 26 16:04:53 2011. :( I hope that changes soon with the implementation of the SmartCard program. Transit between NYC, NJ, and PA needs to operate regionally, especially in terms of fare and fare collection, even moreso up there! |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Hank EisenStein on Fri May 27 04:48:00 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by NJT Morris Rider on Thu May 26 18:05:15 2011. Cheaper than the toll isn't an issue; people have no reason to choose transit over their own car in this situation. Parking is plentiful, potential destinations are few and far between, and there is little to no congestion along the associated paths.This isn't like commuting from Jamacia to Midtown, where an off-peak car ride is 15 minutes, but a peak ride is nearly 90 minutes; This is a 15 minute off-peak ride, and a 20 minute peak ride. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Hank EisenStein on Fri May 27 05:06:59 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu May 26 17:59:56 2011. If you take transit on a regular basis, you time your trips; people aren't going to start their trip PLANNING to wait 15 minutes for a service that runs on a schedule; they're going to plan their trip for the shortest wait time that's reasonable without potentially missing their connection.I'm not saying anything about the 40; I'm saying the only way to make the 54 more of an attractive route is to send it to the ferry. I only included the high school, but there are also a few shopping centers along Guyon, and at Amboy Rd within a few hundred feet of Guyon, that make this slightly more necessary. I don't foresee a bus route along Amboy. The SIR is always withing 1/4 of a mile of Amboy (which crosses the ROW three times between Bay Terrace and Pleasant Plains) and at most stations west of Nassau, you can SNEEZE on Amboy Rd from the platform. The TA just eliminated several routes that duplicated subway service in Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx. I don't see them adding a route that does just that. Not many of those thousands of Port Newark/Port Elizabeth workers come from Staten Island, and while there could be a cost savings to the individual, it would still be a subsidized service, which would be an overall increase of costs to the agency that would run such a service and thus the taxpayers. The commute time by transit would also be longer than the car ride, and likely require a transfer to a connecting service, just as many NJT riders do once they arrive in NYC. If I had a choice of driving to work along a relatively congestion-free route with low-cost or no-cost parking, or needing to adhere to a transit schedule that requires me to make a connection, I'm choosing to drive every time. That's the OPPOSITE of what makes transit an attractive alternative. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Hank EisenStein on Fri May 27 05:12:31 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Thu May 26 14:09:39 2011. No, the s89 didn't come into existence until private operators failed to make a profit running it. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Hank EisenStein on Fri May 27 05:18:33 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri May 27 01:28:57 2011. I can't disagree with you on accessibility; however, I don't see elevators without fare control at New Dorp, or Eltingville and Grasmere, which are also key stations. SIR has only four accessible stations; St. George, Dongan Hills, Great Kills, and Tottenville. Except for St. George, accessibility is entirely via ramps. Old Town is nominally accessible westbound, as it has a near-street-level platform access. |
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| (234125) | |
Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Hank EisenStein on Fri May 27 05:24:29 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri May 27 00:38:36 2011. As I've said before, the MTA, a state agency, is not going to subsidize a service that not only costs the state money, but directly removes tax revenue from the state. Local businesses, even the SI Mall's ownership, would protest such a route, as it would result in a direct decline in business at their shops. It's not the same thing as the 89. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Fri May 27 06:39:21 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu May 26 23:11:11 2011. And express buses aren't the polar opposite? |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Fri May 27 06:43:52 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Grand Concourse on Fri May 27 02:50:59 2011. There are also people, like myself, that does not want to have ANYTHING to do with car ownership. Car maintenance and gasoline prices come into play. Besides, in a city like this, owning a car is not that big of a deal. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Fri May 27 06:44:19 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri May 27 00:39:31 2011. I can hear a pin drop.... |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Fri May 27 06:48:04 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri May 27 01:24:52 2011. I guess sending the route to Yukon had the S57 interline with the S59 at Port Richmond. Prior to that, the S57 could interline with the S53 and S66/67.Castleton lost a lot of buses but they needed to cut some slack as they were seriously overcrowded. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Fri May 27 06:50:44 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri May 27 01:18:34 2011. You would be making a mistake cutting the S54 outright as Manor Road north of Victory Boulevard would have no service. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Fri May 27 06:55:39 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by dkupf on Fri May 27 00:11:12 2011. Rockland Avenue within the Greenbelt is a PITA during rush hours to get through. The streets are so narrow (only one lane); Forest Hill Road and Manor Road are the same way. |
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| (234132) | |
Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Fri May 27 07:00:39 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Hank EisenStein on Fri May 27 05:24:29 2011. Makes sense. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri May 27 07:09:52 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by dkupf on Fri May 27 00:55:28 2011. LOL! How do you know? |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Fri May 27 07:18:13 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu May 26 22:34:51 2011. Even though I lived most of my life in Brooklyn, I worked mostly during the day, so traveling by car into Manhattan was never an option... and I am fortunate to be someone who can tolerate public transportation AND driving (there are many who give up public transportation once they start driving), but I choose carefully where and when...anytime a major city is involved, it's usually trains and buses, and when it's suburban or intercity, it's usually by car... |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri May 27 08:46:08 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by LRG5784 on Fri May 27 06:48:04 2011. True, but now that Charleston is open, Castleton is no longer overcrowded (CAS has 200 buses now). |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by JAzumah on Fri May 27 09:38:42 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Hank EisenStein on Fri May 27 05:12:31 2011. Not true. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri May 27 11:03:42 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by JAzumah on Fri May 27 09:38:42 2011. OK, what's your take? I know you tried running it after the original operator of the 144 stopped. |
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| (234142) | |
Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by JAzumah on Fri May 27 11:58:30 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri May 27 11:03:42 2011. Politics...you take local buses out of local service to put on "express" service. Remember, a local bus customer is only worth 3/5 (60%) of an express bus customer. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Fri May 27 12:15:39 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Thu May 26 13:56:28 2011. You make it sound simple, but it's not. Given the interstate nature of the run, there is nothing stopping a private operator from starting a route. I suspect the reason they haven't is that it's essentially a suburb to suburb market that is very difficult to properly operate with fixed-route transit service, and certainly not at the cost of an MTA local bus fare. |
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| (234147) | |
Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by JAzumah on Fri May 27 16:43:34 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by RailBus63 on Fri May 27 12:15:39 2011. It IS that simple. When I went to survey the Outerbridge Park & Ride, my cab driver received a trip from Mid-Island to EWR that paid $77. So, you could pay $10 one way to EWR or you can pay $40-80 for a cab...if you can get one.The thing is that Walder is willing to make improvements as long as the overall budget is "zero growth". This is a big step in the right direction for the MTA. The next big step for them would be to realize that interfering with the private sector is bad public policy. When they get to that point, then I will show them how to serve interstate markets within their existing budget. The MTA has to get to the point of market based service planning in order to avoid catastrophic collapse. NJT is able to use their NYC routes (particularly their commuter network) to SUBSIDIZE their local system. Not a single operating subsidy dollar is used to operate the NYC network. This isn't rocket science. You announce that the S89 service did not meet expectations and will be shut down. Then, you replace the S89 with the X32 (to Newark Airport via Bayonne) and the X33 (to Hoboken) using the same equipment now used on the S89. As you may have noticed, one can charge $5.50 (or more) for each of these routes. That would have positive benefits for the budget. The X32 could run HOURLY to EWR and Newark Penn Station and maintain the connection with the HBLR (you create a round trip ticket on the old transfer paper stock to avoid hitting HBLR riders too hard and allow them a free return to SI). Notice that no new buses were needed. You create a connection to the Northeast Corridor and the intercity passenger rail system. You provide access to a new massive job market at EWR and Elizabeth (airports and seaports always need hard working people with basic skills to work there). You could actually even attract new businesses to SI with fast transit service. The question is whether the MTA can admit that the S89 is a failure. Of its 918 daily passengers, less than 400 cross the Bayonne Bridge. The 144 carried 380 per day in August 2007. The MTA has not grown the market one inch. In fact, the route performs so poorly that it is hidden within the S59's numbers so that it doesn't stick out to anyone with a calculator. Can they continue to justify a $1M subsidy to carry the same amount of people across the Bayonne Bridge as the unsubsidized service or have they had enough? |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by NJT Morris Rider on Fri May 27 17:31:06 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by JAzumah on Fri May 27 16:43:34 2011. How would the "X32" work? SI-Bayonne-Newark Penn-EWR? |
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| (234149) | |
Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by NJT Morris Rider on Fri May 27 17:34:49 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by RailBus63 on Fri May 27 12:15:39 2011. Which is why the route would go to Newark. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by R30A on Fri May 27 17:38:50 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by JAzumah on Fri May 27 11:58:30 2011. But the costs of a local passenger are substantially less than 60% of an express passenger. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Fri May 27 18:22:03 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by dkupf on Thu May 26 23:44:58 2011. I have to agree again about your point but (Brooklynbus can correct me on this) it is not all Operation Plannings fault, but more the budget department shutting any ideas OP may have in mind. It is sad that a city like NY have horrible bus system. In the days of Brooklynbus being around, it seem like it was taken for granted. At least then they were able to press the reset button without budget pushing them away and allow them to do what their job is to do. To study and plan routes that benefit our customers (riders) and giving each route a purpose. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Q101 E. MIDTOWN 2 AV on Fri May 27 18:52:03 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by JAzumah on Fri May 27 16:43:34 2011. The X32 sounds a bit circuitous, maybe have it go to Newark Penn Station via EWR or Journal Square. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Fri May 27 20:25:03 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by LRG5784 on Fri May 27 06:43:52 2011. Exactly, other than weekends if you need to go places mass transit doesn't reach, then it is pretty much a bad idea driving during the weekdays especially during the rush hours. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by NJT Morris Rider on Fri May 27 21:30:39 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu May 26 23:36:28 2011. Did you even comprehend what I wrote? |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by NJT Morris Rider on Fri May 27 21:32:09 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu May 26 22:41:14 2011. Explain your failed logic. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by JAzumah on Sat May 28 00:25:36 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by NJT Morris Rider on Fri May 27 17:31:06 2011. Staten Island-Bayonne-Jersey Gardens-EWR |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:28:04 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by NJT Morris Rider on Fri May 27 21:30:39 2011. Yessir |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by NJT Morris Rider on Sat May 28 00:29:08 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by JAzumah on Sat May 28 00:25:36 2011. sounds like it's doing some backtracking. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by NJT Morris Rider on Sat May 28 00:29:36 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:28:04 2011. Then you would have known that I wasn't talking about the ALP46. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:29:48 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Grand Concourse on Fri May 27 02:43:51 2011. You're exaggerating, if you know New York City streets like I do traffic isn't an issue. I'd much rather sit in traffic in the comfort of my own car than in a dirty, smelly bus. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:31:34 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by NJT Morris Rider on Sat May 28 00:29:36 2011. 46 on the Direct means Alp 46 on the Midtown Direct in this case, you should have made that clearer. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by NJT Morris Rider on Sat May 28 00:32:49 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:29:48 2011. Add to that cabbies that can't drive and people who don't know how to park legally. I'd rather be on the bus. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:32:51 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by LRG5784 on Fri May 27 06:39:21 2011. Except you pay $10 to ride what is basically a Greyhound bus with no bathroom when you can pay $1 to ride the same bus to D.C. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by NJT Morris Rider on Sat May 28 00:33:51 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:31:34 2011. I said the Direct on the 46 not 46 on the Direct.Is it me or has Turtle Soup made this place stupider? |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:34:00 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by NJT Morris Rider on Fri May 27 21:32:09 2011. Not at all, except during the rush hours, you'll rarely see people who can afford to drive on a bus in the suburbs. It's a bit less prevalent in the city, but still noticeable, especially in Staten Island and parts of Queens. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by NJT Morris Rider on Sat May 28 00:35:46 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:32:51 2011. And your point is? MTA should order some 416s from NABI while they're still doing the NJT order? |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:37:58 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Hank EisenStein on Fri May 27 05:06:59 2011. If you take transit on a regular basis, you time your trips; people aren't going to start their trip PLANNING to wait 15 minutes for a service that runs on a schedule; they're going to plan their trip for the shortest wait time that's reasonable without potentially missing their connection.It's still inconvenient if you live that far away, especially on a route like the S74 where drivers don't really care about the schedule as much as they want to get the nearly 20-mile trip over with. I'm not saying anything about the 40; I'm saying the only way to make the 54 more of an attractive route is to send it to the ferry. No one would ride the S54 to St. George from Manor Road, it would operate primarily as an unnecessary supplement to the S40. I only included the high school, but there are also a few shopping centers along Guyon, and at Amboy Rd within a few hundred feet of Guyon, that make this slightly more necessary. I don't foresee a bus route along Amboy. The SIR is always withing 1/4 of a mile of Amboy (which crosses the ROW three times between Bay Terrace and Pleasant Plains) and at most stations west of Nassau, you can SNEEZE on Amboy Rd from the platform. The TA just eliminated several routes that duplicated subway service in Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx. I don't see them adding a route that does just that. New Dorp Lane plus the two huge shopping malls on Hylan Boulevard are much more attractive destinations. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by NJT Morris Rider on Sat May 28 00:38:32 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:34:00 2011. Yeah right, most of Lakeland's stops in Parsippany are park & rides and there is traffic outside of rush hours at those stops. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:39:05 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by NJT Morris Rider on Sat May 28 00:33:51 2011. Same thing.Is it me or has Turtle Soup made this place stupider? You don't wanna go there. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Sat May 28 00:40:30 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:29:48 2011. Well then, enjoy your car ride. I'll stick with the trains and buses. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by NJT Morris Rider on Sat May 28 00:42:06 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:39:05 2011. No it's not. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by NJT Morris Rider on Sat May 28 00:42:23 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by Grand Concourse on Sat May 28 00:40:30 2011. +1 |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:44:49 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by NJT Morris Rider on Sat May 28 00:32:49 2011. Add to that cabbies that can't drive and people who don't know how to park legally.Buses have to deal both of those issues too. I'd rather be on the bus. Of course you are since you're a busfan, you're one of a kind. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:46:15 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by NJT Morris Rider on Sat May 28 00:35:46 2011. It's pretty simple, that the MTA express buses aren't what he's making them seem like, some of those buses to the Hamptons are a different story. |
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Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat May 28 00:47:31 2011, in response to Re: MTA Bus Ridership Dwindles As Subway Gains, posted by NJT Morris Rider on Sat May 28 00:38:32 2011. Same with the 139 but not all of its passengers come from park-and-rides, plus just because you have a car doesn't mean that you can afford to drive it to the city regularly. |
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