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| Re: Second Ave Alignment Change (637196) | |
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| (638519) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 14:08:07 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 13:45:38 2008. Easy to call somebody a dumbass when you're not the one paying for the work, nor are you the one having to do it. Wanna switch places when them? How well do you think you'd do? |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 14:12:23 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 14:08:07 2008. I've been a manager for the last 30 years of my life. Funny how the people who work WITH me *like* it ... communication, questions and real answers, a full understanding of what WE need to do before we proceed and if anyone runs into a problem, I get it solved. NOW. I only say the things I do because I've been very successful at it for a very long time. If people know WHY and WHAT needs to be done, and then once they have the picture, are permitted to "carry on" with their very own creative solutions then all sorts of good things happen AHEAD of schedule, and under budget! AND they all feel a part of the success simply because they were free to attack a KNOWN need in the best way they can, and I'm there to back them up when they need it and ONLY when they need it.Management is NOT being "captain of the ship" and "Lord High Poobah" ... managing things is a simple matter of inspiration and explanation and then let YOUR people go do their job in peace. That's why I say what I do in so many examples of "Captain Queeg" here. :) |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by R160 8818 on Mon Jun 23 14:14:56 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 13:57:35 2008. what a fun trip!putting a 600 ft train on lines where 480 ft was the norm! i believe they used to turn on the bridge, but that was '62. cant u shunt at myrtle/b'way? |
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| (638524) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 14:18:58 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by R160 8818 on Mon Jun 23 14:14:56 2008. That's what we were supposed to do, but a KK train laid down with a busted pipe on the track I was supposed to relay on. They had no choice but to send me up the Myrt at that point. :)I know there's a crossover further up the line, but the geniuses gave me the lineup for Met, I kept telling them that wasn't a good idea, dispatcher said "TAKE it and get OFF my damned railroad." OK, genius. Heh. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jun 23 14:20:00 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 11:40:51 2008. No No No No...A connection would NOT be very nice. It will not be nice at all. It will cause delays at the interlocking. It will cause delays at the terminal. It will not *really* benefit all that many people. Lets Super-size that Wildebeest! ROAR |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 14:21:54 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jun 23 14:20:00 2008. Mustard or mayo? :) |
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| (638533) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 14:23:55 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 14:12:23 2008. "Management is NOT being "captain of the ship" and "Lord High Poobah" ... managing things is a simple matter of inspiration and explanation and then let YOUR people go do their job in peace."You forgot something very important. Managers must also remove obstacles from their employees' path so that the employees are empowered to do their jobs. Managers must define boundaries so that employees do not run into each other with duplicative and wasteful effort. Managers must ensure that critical information travels up and down and sideways as it is needed. Managers must communicate with other managers. Managers must also know their limitations. I'm sure people who have worked with you do like it, as you are a nice guy. That doesn't mean you can trade places with the SAS team. As I've shown, there are a few tools missing from your box. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 14:24:21 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 14:21:54 2008. Peach salsa? |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by R160 8818 on Mon Jun 23 14:33:37 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 14:18:58 2008. wow...this was the 70s right? |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Russ on Mon Jun 23 14:57:37 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 23 11:55:55 2008. Crowding and necessity have existed as reasons to build the SAS since 1955 (the year the Lex became the only East Side line). I don't care how badly it's needed, politics and finances will doom any part of the line below 63rd and it'll be a miracle to see the segment from 96th to 125th built.What has changed is that the East Side is getting so congested that the RPA - which has very close ties to the real estate industry - is predicting that real estate values will begin to fall if the SAS is not built. This has never happened before. If that does begin to happen, politicians from all over the region - as well as ranking members of relevamt congressional committees - will suddenly find this issue to be very, very important. Money from the real estate industry will work its way through the political process. The SAS will get built. |
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| (638555) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Russ on Mon Jun 23 15:06:10 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 13:45:38 2008. "Then again, look at what they did with the QP interlockings to add 63rd when they finally got around to it. That access could have moved trains a LOT faster through there than what they built."How could the changes to the interlockings have provided for faster service? |
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| (638556) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 15:06:33 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 14:23:55 2008. Heh. Didn't think I needed to state the obvious. And no, having already worked for the state (and by the way, did it the SAME way I've handled other missions but got tired of the "Simon Says" interferences) I wouldn't TOUCH a project like this.I was going to go into a whole step by step explanation, but why waste time. I'll put it this way. It's not MY job when managing to please anyone except the "internal or external customer" and bring the job in ON time and (hopefully) UNDER budget ... doing that allows for last minute surprises without having to go back to the well, hat in hand for money that ain't there. By the time anyone talks to ME about a project, money's already frozen. There is a BIG difference between the MTA-like "Simon Says" management style (typical of government) and COLLABORATIVE EFFORT ... just because you have years of experience and they put YOU in charge doesn't mean that your old tired way of doing things "because *I* said so" is the best way of approaching problems. And since I've always had the end hiring decision on who works for me, I look for people that may or may not have specific experience, I look for CREATIVE problem solvers who know the job, as well as "craftspeople" ... while I might want to build things a certain way because that's what I've always done, I really prefer having people in my midst who do NOT "know all the answers" since they will often take an entirely fresh approach to a situation and come up with a surprisingly devious and simple solution. I get everybody together (in an informal situation where possible, even sitting under a tree together) and describe what the task at hand is, what is expected as the outcome and why we need to do it today and then ask for ideas. Works out VERY well. Here's a fast example of one job ... a window well tended to get flooded with water coming down a hill which would leak into a facility. We needed to operate a pump. As an electronics engineer, I would have just put down an electronic detector for water, build a circuit and a relay to kick on a pump. Since I'm an electronics engineer by trade, only thing I thought of was circuits. MTA would probably let it out on a $10,000 digital contract. One of my guys suggested using a toilet float and a microswitch. Guess what we built? It's STILL working 20 years later. :) I'm not a manager to please my people, I'm a manager because I can be counted on to GET THINGS DONE. And when I *listen* to my people, they're only too happy to implement their ideas, discuss and work with one another, and step in to cover each other when needed. A true "team" where everyone is a piece of the outcome and proud of their work. As to the "other managers" they get a memo if that's their style, or they can come down and be part of the discussion themselves. You'd be amazed at how well things go when people are actually INVOLVED in their projects rather than sitting behind PeopleSoft and demanding "activity reports" ... heh. Including even the STATE, every job I've ever left I've been asked, even begged to reconsider and come back. I think that says it all. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 15:11:58 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 14:24:21 2008. Ewwwww. MORE sugar! :) |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 15:12:16 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by R160 8818 on Mon Jun 23 14:33:37 2008. 1971. :) |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 15:16:07 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Russ on Mon Jun 23 15:06:10 2008. The original design was supposedly going to bring 63rd into the express tracks rather than from the outside. Don't have the track maps of yesteryear and "as built" handy, but they didn't do the connection the way it was originally intended. I've *heard* that there's a lot more movements required of the 63 connector and that it slows down the railroad whereas the original concept wouldn't have affected it as much as what they built does ... I'm going on hearsay here as to how slow things move through those junctions today, and what it takes to get a lineup ... |
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| (638571) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 15:22:14 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 15:16:07 2008. So you made a huge fuss about something that's, at best, heresay, and at worst, ignorant bullshit.I think that speaks for itself. For the record, the 63rd St tracks connect to both the express and local QB tracks. |
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| (638573) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 15:24:29 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 15:06:33 2008. "Heh. Didn't think I needed to state the obvious."They are all obvious once you know what you're doing. |
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| (638574) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jun 23 15:28:41 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 15:16:07 2008. Part of the trouble with 36th St interlocking on the Queens Blvd Line is that it's just south of 36th St, as the name implies. It would have been useful to have an express station north of the interlocking. It would also have been useful to build a connection to a yard in the Sunnyside area, for storage and maintenance, as Jamaica seems to have become overwhelmed over the years. And use as a terminal would have meant a lot too, since relaying at Queens Plaza is a move that can't be done very well when service is decently frequent.And of course, the obligatory map:  Too bad it's a bit difficult to tell what's going on a surface level in these maps, but perhaps our resident geographically correct track map maker will take that up. Hint, hint... :) |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 23 15:30:31 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Russ on Mon Jun 23 14:57:37 2008. I'll throw this on the pile of other excuses people have used (and which have been proven to be useless) to assure this line will be built. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jun 23 15:32:40 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 23 15:30:31 2008. Walt Disney will ride SAS. Someday. :) |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by FLASH GORDON on Mon Jun 23 15:45:57 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 12:58:46 2008. HI BUDDYWorked the E train and ended up at 135th street do to flooding at 21st street that this happens after 36 years. It will be interesting to se how much of the new line floods after a thunder storm being its lower than the Lex. FLASH GORDON |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 15:49:37 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by FLASH GORDON on Mon Jun 23 15:45:57 2008. That also depends on drainage methods... |
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Posted by FLASH GORDON on Mon Jun 23 15:56:52 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 15:12:16 2008. Started the next year and the show was getting better.Every day you would say how much worse could it get and it did. FLASH GORDON |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 16:05:21 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 23 15:30:31 2008. Funny, I don't recall any work being stopped. Judging from the whining of some of the merchants, it sounds like things are moving along.Unless you know something? |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Russ on Mon Jun 23 16:12:10 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 23 15:30:31 2008. "I'll throw this on the pile of other excuses people have used (and which have been proven to be useless) to assure this line will be built."Are you unable to refute any point that I made with a substantive counterpoint? |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 23 16:20:44 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 15:11:58 2008. Extra pickles. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jun 23 16:27:03 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Jun 21 00:13:14 2008. Well, to my knowledge they've only broken ground twice, in 1972 and now. Money has been allocated several times for the project, however. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 16:29:29 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 15:22:14 2008. Oh bite me, Unca Ron ... :) |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 16:37:13 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jun 23 15:28:41 2008. Map tells me that I was thinking of 60th and not 63rd ... what I *do* know is that folks working the system frequently get held at the interlockings, but that's more Queens master now than anything else. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 16:40:12 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by FLASH GORDON on Mon Jun 23 15:45:57 2008. Heh. That problem seems to have spread after all that drainage work they did. :) |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 16:48:57 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by FLASH GORDON on Mon Jun 23 15:56:52 2008. I had my fill of the city in 1975, but enjoyed hearing all the war stories from my former road buddies. They handed out a LOT of 44's on the D line as the arnines faded away. :) |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 16:56:15 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 23 16:20:44 2008. No coke, Pepsi! :) |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 17:11:33 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 23 16:20:44 2008. How about pickled tomatoes? I ate some yesterday, imported from Russia. Very tasty, but not recommended if you have high blood pressure and are restricting salt. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 17:13:00 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 16:29:29 2008. I'm too busy eating piroshki and pickled tomato. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 17:18:55 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 17:13:00 2008. We're doing Cuban sandwiches tonight, grilled ... when the dewpoint gets above 65 up here, we don't like to work very hard. :) |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Alex L. on Mon Jun 23 18:24:18 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 13:07:04 2008. MTA also reports on every delay todaySez you. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 18:33:51 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Alex L. on Mon Jun 23 18:24:18 2008. Whatever. I'll take the website's alerts over what they wre anbnouncing 40 years ago (almost nothing). |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 23 19:54:20 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 14:18:58 2008. In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny: "All right, Doc, if you insist.":) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 23 19:55:56 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 13:57:35 2008. That's when Moe says to the dispatcher: "What's the matter with you?" |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 23 19:58:09 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 13:21:58 2008. Northbound I can see a problem brewing. OTOH they could have sent you to 57th. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 23 19:59:04 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by R160 8818 on Mon Jun 23 13:04:18 2008. Notice he didn't say neener-neener.:) |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jun 23 20:03:12 2008, in response to Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by mkeit on Fri Jun 20 22:46:38 2008. I was just thinking. If constructed with one platform, the 72 St station should favor one side of Second Avenue, much the way the 4th Ave line in Brooklyn was built on one side of the street so it could be expanded to four tracks later. At least leave some provision for adding the second platform, even if it goes the way of the Utica Avenue subway. |
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| (638668) | |
Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by FLASH GORDON on Mon Jun 23 20:18:57 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 16:48:57 2008. Never had an R-9 on the D and seemed to be all R-42's.Got a 44 on the forth of july in 72. Liked the D in the winter but wouldn't tuch it in the summer. Wish I could have picked the J. FLASH GORDON |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jun 23 20:21:33 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jun 21 03:02:19 2008. "In their hearts, they know 72nd will be the terminal for a very long time. That's why they're doing this."I think they will eventually get it up to 96 St and maybe as far as the existing completed segments go, but what is starting to be doubtful is the line below 63 St. The three-track segment serves little purpose without the lower portion of the line. Even a short turn of a Q at 72 St with two tracks is no problem as long as the T doesn't exist. That seems to be the real message here-- at least for now. We may see 96 St in ten years, but forget about anything below 63 St. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jun 23 20:24:52 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jun 23 20:03:12 2008. If constructed with one platform, the 72 St station should favor one side of Second Avenue, much the way the 4th Ave line in Brooklyn was built on one side of the street so it could be expanded to four tracks later. At least leave some provision for adding the second platform, even if it goes the way of the Utica Avenue subway.Not a bad sentiment, but: Keep in mind, though, that this is mostly TBM construction. If MTA decides to narrow the tunnel diameter, even if the tunnel is itself left-justified or right justified, with respect to the 2nd Av median, it could still be prohibitively costly to work the unworked side. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jun 23 20:35:20 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jun 23 20:21:33 2008. I think that's about right, but I'm more skeptical than you are about the line north of 72nd St. We will watch and wait, but I suspect that LuchAAA may be correct in his suggestion that 72nd St will be a 'temporary' terminal while construction 'continues' northward. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jun 23 20:51:32 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jun 23 20:21:33 2008. So long as demand for trains along the full-legth route does not equal its full capacity, Q and T trains can be mixed in whatever proprtion the MTA decides, governed of course by demand for the Broadway express. But this is very far off in the future; for the foreseeable future, the worry is to make sure enough trainsets are available to increase Q service so it stretches onto its new territory. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Jun 23 22:20:54 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jun 23 11:38:29 2008. yawn |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 23 23:25:47 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by FLASH GORDON on Mon Jun 23 20:18:57 2008. Lightning took us down for a while ... when I was there, the D was solid R32's, with two pairs of 42's running. Arnines were pretty much only running for rush and some got put away at CCYD, most went back to Stillwell. Yeah, spotted more 42's but by the time I left, there were quite a few 44 sets on the road. I'd wait for them since they were nice and frosty. Some with carpet. My buddies weren't amused with them though except when it was really hot and stinking. Heh.I liked working the D ... only regret I had was reporting to Stillwell when I lived at 205, but that would have changed eventually ... had I picked elsewhere hanging on for a while, Sea Bits probably would have been my next choice. |
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Re: Second Ave Alignment Change |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Mon Jun 23 23:28:57 2008, in response to Re: Second Ave Alignment Change, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Jun 22 00:41:54 2008. I'd like to know more about this elusive express track construction, anyone have more info?The fact that it took most of the 1960s, if it did, was a shame. |
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