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| (605010) | |
End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 21 19:59:08 2008 Sometimes when I am researching one thing I come accross an interesting bit of information. You can put it in the "For what its worth" folder.Effective May 22, 1991 subway trains were no longer required to display marker lights for route identification. Those cars which could still had markers would display red lights on the front and rear of the trains. I believe that the only two systems still using marker lights are PATH and SEPTA's Broad Street Subway. Does anyone know of any others? Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (605017) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Apr 21 20:04:19 2008, in response to End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 21 19:59:08 2008. I believe that the only two systems still using marker lights are PATH and SEPTA's Broad Street Subway. Does anyone know of any others?CTA? 
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Apr 21 20:53:29 2008, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Apr 21 20:04:19 2008. Yes. I was about to say that.Click here, and scroll down to the bottom for what's called the "current" list. IDK what light combinations, if any, are used for the Pink line, as it's not listed. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Apr 21 23:08:28 2008, in response to End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 21 19:59:08 2008. I believe that the only two systems still using marker lights are PATH and SEPTA's Broad Street Subway. Does anyone know of any others?WMATA Never had marker lights for route identification, but do have red rear and white front marker lights.  John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (605361) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 22 11:33:32 2008, in response to End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 21 19:59:08 2008. PATH cars have them, but they are not used. I never knew of marker lights before 1991. Even the "express/local" lights were never used properly before GOH. |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Apr 22 12:35:47 2008, in response to End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 21 19:59:08 2008. Somewhere I saw posted the whole list of marker combinations and what they meant...probably on nycsubway.org. |
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| (605380) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Tue Apr 22 12:47:31 2008, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 22 11:33:32 2008. PATH uses their marker lights, don't they? They light up in correspondence with whichever route a train is taking. |
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| (605390) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Apr 22 13:04:41 2008, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Apr 21 20:53:29 2008. IDK what light combinations, if any, are used for the Pink line, as it's not listed.Looks like white/red 
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| (605811) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Apr 23 05:42:28 2008, in response to End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 21 19:59:08 2008. Thanks! That is something I really wanted to know, but couldn't find. It's a shame the markers are gone, because savvy passengers could tell (for example) whether their A train was going to the Rockaways or Lefferts without waiting to see the side signs. |
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| (605812) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Apr 23 05:45:28 2008, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by SLRT on Wed Apr 23 05:42:28 2008. And 125 could tell "A train or D train" by looking out the bay window. :(A couple of times when I was operating, I'd throw a marker light to get a different lineup (mine was usually the last D local in the PM's before center track with a white/green set of markers. A couple of times when I was late, flipped green/green to see what would happen and I got the center track lineup. Someone was looking! :) |
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| (605824) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Apr 23 07:53:26 2008, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Apr 23 05:45:28 2008. So you pulled that stunt more than once, eh?:) |
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| (605836) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Apr 23 08:20:44 2008, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Apr 22 13:04:41 2008. Nice catch with a blinker/non-blinker consist. Does CTA regularly run mixed consists like that? |
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| (605850) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Apr 23 09:29:08 2008, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Apr 23 08:20:44 2008. Nice catch with a blinker/non-blinker consist. Does CTA regularly run mixed consists like that?Always. The 2200s aren't handicapped- or bicycle-accessible and are not allowed to run in a solid consist. |
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| (605873) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Apr 23 10:13:34 2008, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Apr 23 09:29:08 2008. I guess so, based on this vid I saw on YouTube. |
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| (605885) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Apr 23 10:30:00 2008, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Apr 22 12:35:47 2008. I think you're referring to this page from the JoeKorner. |
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| (606080) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Apr 23 17:43:39 2008, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Apr 23 07:53:26 2008. Heh. Yep. Getting to the terminal on or near time is its own reward. :) |
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| (606121) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Apr 23 18:30:04 2008, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by The Port of Authority on Tue Apr 22 12:47:31 2008. Yes, they ARE used. Red is for the WorldTradeCenter to NeWarK route, Yellow is for JournalSQuare to 33rd route. Green is for HOBoken to 33rd in manhattan line. Blue is for HOBOKEN to WTC |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Aug 5 19:37:29 2011, in response to End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 21 19:59:08 2008. Effective May 22, 1991 subway trains were no longer required to display marker lights for route identification. Those cars which could still had markers would display red lights on the front and rear of the trains.Boo! Hiss! |
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| (1090573) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by RiverLINE3501 on Fri Aug 5 20:41:45 2011, in response to End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 21 19:59:08 2008. FYI: The description of the marker lights on the Broad St Subway:1]White lights - LOCAL TRAINS Fern Rock/AT&T (Pattison) 2]Green Lights - EXPRESS Trains Fern Rock/Walnut Locust [Often, it is used for the Fern Rock/AT&T sports express trains]. 3]Yellow Lights - RIDGE SPUR Trains - Fern Rock or Olney/8th and Market [This is used regardless whether the RIDGE trains were express or local. When the RIDGE spur trains were forced to run express, it used Yellow lights up to Girard, then switched to Green from Girard to Olney/Fern Rock. This was reversed for Southbound trains. SEPTA later changed the Identra system when they decided to make the Ridge Express permanent and now RIDGE SPUR trains display Yellow lights all of the time.] 4]Blue Lights - This is meant for the SPORTS EXPRESS trains to AT&T station [usually for Phillies/Eagles games]. Often Green lights are used. On several occasions, Blue Lights are used for extra Local trains for events at the smaller Wells Fargo Center. |
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| (1090648) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by monorail on Sat Aug 6 02:06:11 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by RiverLINE3501 on Fri Aug 5 20:41:45 2011. good to know!thanks for posting!! |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sat Aug 6 03:28:31 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Apr 23 18:30:04 2008. LOL |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Aug 6 07:11:35 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by RiverLINE3501 on Fri Aug 5 20:41:45 2011. AT&T stationI hope no-one calls it that. |
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| (1090690) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Aug 6 10:01:45 2011, in response to End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by RedbirdR33 on Mon Apr 21 19:59:08 2008. I remember seeing a Redbird consist on the 2 around 2001-2002 that was sporting its former marker light combination (white-red or red-white). |
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| (1090692) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Aug 6 10:16:34 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Aug 6 10:01:45 2011. The loss of marker lights wasn't without consequence for the public. I recall the conductor's test I took about 1965 or so had a question as to what was the LEAST important consequence of having the wrong marker lights. One of the WRONG answers was "knowledgeable riders will get on the wrong train" or words to that effect.For regular riders markers gave more information than the front letters -- on some services it told you the terminal or whether the train was short-lined. On the Brighton in the evening, if a train came in on the local track with red-green markers instead of red-red or white-white it meant the last express was gone, so don't wait for one. |
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| (1090696) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 6 10:27:55 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by SLRT on Sat Aug 6 10:16:34 2011. It is amazing how they took something so functional and improved it with something that cost more and actually gave the customers less information... |
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| (1090697) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Aug 6 10:31:35 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Aug 6 10:01:45 2011. I remember seeing them being actively used on the 7 as well during that time. |
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| (1090699) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Aug 6 10:37:21 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Aug 6 07:11:35 2011. IAWTP. I dislike corporate "naming rights" infecting public transit stations. If the MTA lost their senses and allowed some company to buy the naming rights to something that a lot of people use (for example, Grand Central Terminal), there would be a public outcry so huge that the MTA would be forced to reconsider. |
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| (1090712) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Aug 6 12:05:08 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Aug 6 10:31:35 2011. Which reminds me that they also took away the local-express markers on the R-types. I understand that they got confusing with so many services being express on part of their run and local on other parts, but on the 5 or the 6 or the 7 they could have been meaningful. |
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| (1090747) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Aug 6 13:36:06 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by SLRT on Sat Aug 6 10:16:34 2011. THERE would have been the solution to knowing whether the last train had come. |
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| (1090785) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Aug 6 14:59:40 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by SLRT on Sat Aug 6 10:16:34 2011. You must have taken the same C/R (which was really a Surface Lines Operator exam) test that I did and it was probably in 1964 since I was first called in 1965 when I was not yet 21 and I had to wait another year to actually accept the job. As for the Brighton marker lights, As I remember it, the Brighton Locals displayed the same markers whether they went via tunnel or via bridge (which they did after the expresses stopped running) which was red/red northbound and White/white southbound. Red/green in both directions was only used on the Brighton Express. 4 Av locals were a different story. Trains to/from Ctl displayed green/yellow in both directions and green/green to/from 57/7 which was the case in the evenings midnights and weekends. Some time in the 1970s, the TA revamped its marker light system to reflect the terminal that the train was going to regardless of its point of origin, rather than the previous combination of both departing and arriving terminals. Thus a N/B A train going to 207 St displayed the same makers whether it originated at Lefferts or Far Rock whereas previously they displayed the Leff or F/R markers in both directions and a S/B #1 displayed the same markers whether it had originated at V/C or 137 St. Another change that was made at that time was that previously, yellow/yellow markers were only used on light trains, work trains or specials and many lines like the A, LL or #1 to V/C displayed red red. After the changes, red red became the color for light trains, work trains and specials although it was still retained for shuttles, and some lines like the J ended up displaying yellow/yellow. Lines like the A and #1 which had previously displayed red/red for most of their service now displayed different variations. For example, all S/B #1 trains to So/Fy displayed yellow/red and all N/B A trains to 207 St displayed green/green. That was the case until there were so many markerless trains in service that the TA decided to eliminate their use entirely and ordered red/red to be displayed on all trains |
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| (1090787) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Aug 6 15:02:54 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 6 10:27:55 2011. It wasn't broke, but they fixed it anyway. |
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| (1090788) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Aug 6 15:03:37 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by SLRT on Sat Aug 6 10:16:34 2011. I'll admit that I never paid any attention to marker lights until it was almost too late. |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Aug 6 15:45:48 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by randyo on Sat Aug 6 14:59:40 2011. You're mistaken on the pre-Christie Brightons. Brighton via bridge was Red-Green whether it was a local or an express. In the early-mid '60s I used to hang out at the old Matts (Ex-lax) mansion property next to the r-o-w north of Albemarle Road in the evening. The first Brighton Local via Bridge passed that point a few minutes after the last express went by the same point. Both had red-green markers. The local before had red-red. This told me that the Daily News was likely delivered to the newsstands at E18th and Church and I took off.The Brighton Locals via tunnel were white-white in both directions to their ORIGINAL terminals, which (IIRC) were Coney Island and 57th Street when the Brighton Express terminated at Times Square. Any terminal for the Brighton Locals other than those two were red-red, which is how they ended up red-red n.b. and white-white s.b. The 4th Avenue Locals were traditionally green-green (and didn't go to CTL until 1961). Green-yellow was Culver-Nassau, which became a full-time shuttle in 1959. So I guess green-yellow was available for 4th Avenue local then. What happened to markers after Christie Street I have very little knowledge of. |
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| (1090807) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 6 16:08:42 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by Train Dude on Sat Aug 6 10:27:55 2011. New bosses justifying their jobs.We have to change something to show we're doing something. Change for the sake of change. But maybe the thought process became this: with the closing of towers at most interlockings where the tower operator could physically see the train (at least in one direction) got changed over to master towers where all they see in an upstairs office is a bunch of lights with route selection buttons and/or TV screens showing the lighted end sign became the reason to dump marker lights. |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Aug 6 18:43:24 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by SLRT on Sat Aug 6 15:45:48 2011. The reason I am quoting those markers is because that's what I remember when I stared working for the TA in 1966 when the Brighton lcls went full time to Astoria. According to some BMT old timers,in the 1950s when Brighton expresses did not operate, Brighton Locals ran express in Manhattan even though they were called "locals" and those are probably the ones that carried the red/green markers. By the time I started working in 1966, the Brighton lcls via bridge ran local in Manhattan also. I was a towerman in mid 1967 to late 1968 often holding down the midnight at Astoria tower and I distinctly remember the red/red N/B and whit white S/B markers. What was interesting about that is that after the Chrystie changes in 1967, the markers on the 4 Av lcls which now went to Astoria as they did pre 1961, carried white white in both directions. |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Aug 6 20:01:50 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by randyo on Sat Aug 6 18:43:24 2011. Yes, the Brighton Locals were express in Manhattan until about midnight and all day Saturday and Sunday. They made 49th Street (they were called "Theater Specials" then were express from Times Square South.I moved out of Flatbush in 1965. When I lived at Ocean Parkway I walked over to either 18th Avenue for the D or to Ditmas for the Culver, where I took this picture:  I returned to Flatbush on E18th and Cortelyou Road was my station but by then I wasn't riding much in the eveings. |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Aug 6 22:20:07 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by SLRT on Sat Aug 6 20:01:50 2011. Mean old BMT standards.... |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by monorail on Sun Aug 7 01:59:20 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by randyo on Sat Aug 6 14:59:40 2011. 'That was the case until there were so many markerless trains in service that the TA decided to eliminate their use'I heard that the use of markers was ended due to a collision in a yard or siding. A t/o observed a green marker(which should have been red) and put the controller in series or multiple, thinking it was a regular signal, and was unable to stop before hitting another train... |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 7 02:10:15 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by monorail on Sun Aug 7 01:59:20 2011. That has to be the stupidest motorman evar. I'll admit that with a rain-soaked windshield, it was hard to tell which signal was on which track at times, which meant "assume it's YOURS until proven otherwise" but geez. The height of the green alone should have been a clue. :-\I believe you ... but wow. :( |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by chud1 on Sun Aug 7 02:35:30 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by SLRT on Sat Aug 6 20:01:50 2011. excellent picture.chud1 |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Aug 7 10:47:03 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by SLRT on Sat Aug 6 20:01:50 2011. Thanks. No flash, as you can possibly tell from the bright bulbs. |
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| (1091022) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Aug 7 10:50:13 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by monorail on Sun Aug 7 01:59:20 2011. Incorrect (or missing) markers have contributed to accidents before, for example, Malbone Street,But while I don't doubt the incident you described could have happened, I'm sure they didn't end marker use because of it. |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by zac on Sun Aug 7 11:51:53 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Apr 22 13:04:41 2008. I'm in Chicago right now and I was noticing the old cars were never in a solid consist, this mostly from the highway. I rode the Pink and Orange around the loop, but only saw the older cars on the Blue. That doesn't mean they aren't elsewhere. |
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| (1091034) | |
Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by zac on Sun Aug 7 11:57:43 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Apr 23 05:45:28 2008. I remember green-yellow was 205th-BB local in Bronx, and green-green was concourse express. White-green was 205th-CI, local in Bklyn. Red-Red was QJ and Red Green was QB. I could be wrong, but these were the only markers I really remember. |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by monorail on Sun Aug 7 12:34:06 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Apr 23 10:30:00 2008. Anyone know what the marker lights for 'Bronx Park-180 St' were?? |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by Michael Wares on Tue Aug 9 21:27:55 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by SLRT on Sat Aug 6 20:01:50 2011. I recognize that picture. It was published in .... _The Third Rail_? _Traction & Models_? _Headlights_? |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Tue Aug 9 22:59:13 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by Michael Wares on Tue Aug 9 21:27:55 2011. Wasn't that the picture that depicted the last day of Culver Shuttle service? I have seen it before, too.--Mark |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Aug 9 23:02:39 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Tue Aug 9 22:59:13 2011. BMT Standards were long gone by the time the shuttle ceased to operate in 1975 |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Wed Aug 10 00:33:50 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by SLRT on Sat Aug 6 20:01:50 2011. Were those friends of yours or did you just run into a friendly environment like that? |
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Re: End of Subway Marker Lights |
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Posted by zac on Wed Aug 10 17:45:46 2011, in response to Re: End of Subway Marker Lights, posted by zac on Sun Aug 7 11:57:43 2011. The JoeKorner site confirmed my recollections. I guess I don't have CRSS (can't remember s!*t syndrome) after all. |
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